Old 12-04-2018, 02:08 PM   #1
sjs94704
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Hi, ALL:

I will be posting my music on a website called https://audiomack.com/ and so I contacted them to find out about the LUFS levels they allow and this is the answer I got:

Hello,

Thanks for reaching out again Steven, our max support is 320kbps for files though for the average person who doesn't have a subscription they'll be listening at 160kbps. 320 only plays when they have a premium subscription and are on wi-fi so as not to use up all their data.

-Kevin


So, based on this information, what LUFS level should I mix my music at?

Thanks in advance for your help .....
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:17 PM   #2
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Bit rate (kpbs) and loudness (LUFS) are not related.
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfillion View Post
Bit rate (kpbs) and loudness (LUFS) are not related.
All said!

Kbps is the bitrate , its about the encoding of the non-lossless format

LUFs on the other side is related to loudness units

SO

one is not related to the other

BUT

If you deliver your final mix in MP3 320 Kbps with a value in between -9 to -11 LUFS you are ok

DPmeter is a free tool you can use to check that OR you can use the SWS loudness tool in reaper
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:13 PM   #4
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If I were you, I'd be posting my songs elsewhere...
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Old 12-04-2018, 04:03 PM   #5
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192kps is plenty good. I do lufs at -13. I checked 20 of my favorite albums to come up with this.
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:08 PM   #6
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OK!

I read everyone's replies and am grateful for all of your input...

Thanks ....
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Old 12-05-2018, 09:33 AM   #7
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FOLLOW-UP QUESTION:

I was watching a Dana Tucker video about LUFS and his instructions are that if I wanted to for example normalize all my tracks to the same LUFS of -18 that using the SWS loudness feature to normalize to -15 because Reaper adds 3 db to the volume of the file.

So, in my SWS loudness extension I have a song that all my tracks have an integrated LUFS of -15 in order to be at -18.

Did I understand that right and this is the way it is supposed to be?
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Old 12-05-2018, 09:42 AM   #8
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I do not know about that SWS extension, but get yourself a Loudness meter
-- MeldaProduction Loudness Analyzer
-- Youlean Loudness Meter
-- TBProAudio dpMeter3

But, note, conversion to, say, MP3 can alter the loudness level. And, different web site prefer / require different LUFS levels.
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Old 12-06-2018, 05:45 AM   #9
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Maybe you shouldn't watch Dana Tucker video's on Youtube?

When LUFS was coming up, just a few years ago, he responded to a thread on the Audacity forum that the EU shouldn't think they could push their rules on the US of A.

Obviously, LUFS hasn't got anything to do with the EU, it even isn't an obligation. It's a standard developed by the EBU (European Broadcast Union), for internal use. It's open, so anyone can use it without licensing or fees.

That thread evolved into a bit of a mudslinging contest. At a certain point he wrote something that looked threatening enough to the mods to block his account. I'm pretty certain it wasn't a real threat, just his way of expressing his feelings.

He doesn't know the first thing about audio in general, he's just trying to make a buck on youtube...

Combined with a streaming host that sends stupid support answers, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. You're not the only one. The entire podcast scene is looking at hyped stuff. You really don't need an SM7b, or an MKH416 as a beginning podcaster, fi.

Now, about that streaming site. I wouldn't trust them, given their support answers, but also because it's just a startup, running an SSL certificate for janesfloraldreams.com. They don't seem to understand servers anymore than audio. Their DNS is being run by www.flowerssaskatoon.com. Seems the flower merchants are expanding into music. And dental care...
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:14 AM   #10
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UPDATE:

First of all, thanks to everyone who has contributed so far.
So, with all of this said what I am going to do is not worry so much about the LUFS on each track, but, I am going to use the Youlean loudness meter on my MASTER track so that the loudness from the master track will be regulated for output.

You get the idea .........
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:31 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
UPDATE:
I am going to use the Youlean loudness meter on my MASTER track so that the loudness from the master track will be regulated for output.
Yes, but the Youlean loudness meter will not regulate
anything!

It just shows you how loud your song is. And then you
can decide wheter you want it louder (--> more compression)
or quieter with more transparency (--> less compression).
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enroe View Post
Yes, but the Youlean loudness meter will not regulate
anything!

It just shows you how loud your song is. And then you
can decide wheter you want it louder (--> more compression)
or quieter with more transparency (--> less compression).
And that's perfect.

LUFS is a measurement system. It's not supposed to drive a compressor. Think about it. How would it do that?

The measurement is over the entire song. How can software decide which parts to attenuate or amplify? Or which frequency bands?

Besides, there are other means to make it louder, or quieter. Doesn't need to be a compressor.
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:53 PM   #13
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In all honesty, LUFs meters on the master... their most useful purpose is something you glance at while you are mixing, just so you always have a running total so to speak of where loudness is landing. Once you have you mix and ready to go, it's far more efficient to render your master then load that to be analyzed - so you don't have to wait for the entire song to play each time.

I think YouLean has this built in (browse to a file), if not Orban Loudness Meter is superb for this.
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Old 12-06-2018, 06:11 PM   #14
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Just to mention (again) that absolute levels do not actually matter until right when you are rendering the real final distribution file. Up to that point what you should really be looking at is the Dynamic Range of the signal. This is the difference between the highest peak - the single loudest sample coming out - and the integrated level whether you're talking LUFS or RMS.


When you see things like loudness recommendations from streaming services or whatever, it's generally assumed that your file will peak at or near 0dbFS and then the loudness target basically IS your DR. If your file does not peak at 0dbFS, you can't really say how it compares or what you might need to do to meet that target.


Maybe you're integrating to -18 but peaking at -4. That file doesn't need any limiting to meet the -14db target for YouTube. Just turn it up 4db. Maybe you're integrating to -12, but peaking at +2. Again, you're actually hitting the target, but you need to turn it down - just static flat attenuation.


I'm not sure I'm really making the point the way that I want to, but if you're asking something like "My mix integrates to -18, but I want it to be at -14, what should I do?", my answer starts with the question "Where is it peaking?" because until I know that, I have no way of even starting to tell you what you need.
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Old 12-06-2018, 06:37 PM   #15
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OK, so here is a question:

I am a singer and I purchase ,y background music online and each instrument comes on it own seperate track. I have been told by the website operators that at least the music itself has already been 'treated' so I am going to make an educarted guess that the LUFS is set as well.

So, since my voice is the only thing I am really adding to the mix, how if at does this fact change my approach to this whole topic?
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
OK, so here is a question:

I am a singer and I purchase ,y background music online and each instrument comes on it own seperate track. I have been told by the website operators that at least the music itself has already been 'treated' so I am going to make an educarted guess that the LUFS is set as well.

So, since my voice is the only thing I am really adding to the mix, how if at does this fact change my approach to this whole topic?
Yes yes. So the only thing that will be important for you is: How
can I embed my vocals into the given tracks? This alone is not
easy - and you'll be busy enough only doing this.
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Old 12-06-2018, 09:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
So, since my voice is the only thing I am really adding to the mix, how if at does this fact change my approach to this whole topic?
It doesn't. If the tracks you're working with have well-controlled dynamics already, you might not have to try so hard to do so at the track or mix level.

You still just need to mix it til it sounds good to you. That's the mixing stage and it really has not a damn thing to do with how the meters look.

THEN you're into something like what people call mastering, where you evaluate the overall dynamic range of the basically finished mix and try to make that conform to your target.

THEN once you've got the DR you want, you set the peak level somewhere close to 0 and you're done. Though some of the tools one might use to get the DR you're looking (master fader limiters) might make it easy to do both of those last two steps at once.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
Hi, ALL:

I will be posting my music on a website called https://audiomack.com/ and so I contacted them to find out about the LUFS levels they allow and this is the answer I got:

Hello,

Thanks for reaching out again Steven, our max support is 320kbps for files though for the average person who doesn't have a subscription they'll be listening at 160kbps. 320 only plays when they have a premium subscription and are on wi-fi so as not to use up all their data.

-Kevin


So, based on this information, what LUFS level should I mix my music at?

Thanks in advance for your help .....
I got almost the exact same response from another place, a guy working for a company that will help us put our stuff out on streaming media. I asked what LUFS and TP I should aim for, and got the reply "16/44.1"

It is scary how many people in this business have not the slightest clue about the technology.
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