Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > MIDI Hardware, Control Surfaces, and OSC

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-25-2020, 07:43 PM   #10761
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 1,768
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
Now That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!

Thank you! Oh I also forgot about "acceleration" with the step count, thanks for reminding me!
It's worth pointing out that it's better to see if a standard accelerated encoder (unstepped) works first before diving down the rabbit holes that are stepped values.

In the past i've spent ages doing a high step number encoder, only to discover that it was almost indistinguishable from a regular, accelerated encoder and I needn't have bothered

One tip, if you do a stepped encoder and it gets 'stuck' at a particular value, either CW or CCW, that's a sure sign that a value is wrong, usually the one before or after where it got stuck.

Good luck!
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 07:51 PM   #10762
cjewellstudios
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 469
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
It's worth pointing out that it's better to see if a standard accelerated encoder (unstepped) works first before diving down the rabbit holes that are stepped values.

In the past i've spent ages doing a high step number encoder, only to discover that it was almost indistinguishable from a regular, accelerated encoder and I needn't have bothered

One tip, if you do a stepped encoder and it gets 'stuck' at a particular value, either CW or CCW, that's a sure sign that a value is wrong, usually the one before or after where it got stuck.

Good luck!
That's interesting actually!

This started in the old build but I couldn't get a regular encoder to step through the values like you mentioned. I assumed that maybe I just had to do stepped because I couldn't get the param to move otherwise.

I'm using "Encoder" in my MST, that's the correct way to do it right?

Code:
Widget Rotary1
	Encoder    B8 00 7f  [ < 3f 3e 3d 3c 3b 3a 39 38 36 33 2f > 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 4a 4d 51 ]   
	FB_Fader7Bit B8 00 7f
WidgetEnd
cjewellstudios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 01:06 AM   #10763
pwallin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 85
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore View Post
I'm using an S1 (https://www.avid.com/products/avid-s1) and a Dock (https://www.avid.com/products/avid-dock), which are basically just updated versions of the artist mix and control. I also have an artist mix gathering dust in my closet that I could pull out for testing if needed, but from my understanding of how eucon works, the specific hardware shouldn't make a difference in sussing out bugs like this.

Anyways, flip works as expected for me. If I have the controller showing pans on the knobs and then I hit the flip button, the faders will now control pan and the knobs will control volume. I'm not certain how it works internally, but I think it could be that the type of messages that get sent out don't actually change, just the parameters that those messages control, so what you're seeing could still make sense. I could be totally be off base though and have no idea what I'm talking about.
I have used flip-function with Klinke. Works like that.
pwallin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 05:09 AM   #10764
tdc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Sydney
Posts: 458
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Thanks but no need.

With help from Justin, it is now clear what is going on.

When you touch an MCU fader, along with the touch sense message, it also sends out current fader position.
Never ceases to amaze the level of detail some processes require to make things look simple :-)

Well done in tracing the issue down. I have grabbed the latest builds, and completely wiped all my CSI files to your defaults and I am pleased to say that here with the Avid S3 you have indeed slain the dragon.

I will begin adding in my custom zones and config and report any interesting things I find.

Fantastic work Geoff!
tdc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 05:12 AM   #10765
tdc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Sydney
Posts: 458
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Didn’t want to pile on before, but Touch is broken in OSC as well, but not in the same way. It suffers the ziggy - zaggy, dropping in and out of write when the fader is touched. This happens in the May build as well, but not in the one from April. Sorry to bring more work.
Hey MixMonkey,

OSC and CSI has bitten me a few times as I forget to explicitly send and handle the "touch" commands in Lemur. Usually these need to be setup in addition to the OSC data for the actual volume.
tdc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 05:48 AM   #10766
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,522
Default

New EuCon only build is up.

Attempt to fix touch issue with rotaries, please check it out and let me know.
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 05:50 AM   #10767
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdc View Post
Never ceases to amaze the level of detail some processes require to make things look simple :-)

Well done in tracing the issue down. I have grabbed the latest builds, and completely wiped all my CSI files to your defaults and I am pleased to say that here with the Avid S3 you have indeed slain the dragon.

I will begin adding in my custom zones and config and report any interesting things I find.

Fantastic work Geoff!
Thanks, also check out the latest EuCon build just posted and see if rotaries now work properly as well.
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 07:06 AM   #10768
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 1,768
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
That's interesting actually!

This started in the old build but I couldn't get a regular encoder to step through the values like you mentioned. I assumed that maybe I just had to do stepped because I couldn't get the param to move otherwise.

I'm using "Encoder" in my MST, that's the correct way to do it right?

Code:
Widget Rotary1
	Encoder    B8 00 7f  [ < 3f 3e 3d 3c 3b 3a 39 38 36 33 2f > 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 4a 4d 51 ]   
	FB_Fader7Bit B8 00 7f
WidgetEnd
Yes, that's right. And there are absolutely some plugin parameters where you have no choice but to use stepped values.
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 07:09 AM   #10769
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 1,768
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdc View Post
Hey MixMonkey,

OSC and CSI has bitten me a few times as I forget to explicitly send and handle the "touch" commands in Lemur. Usually these need to be setup in addition to the OSC data for the actual volume.
Yep, quite true I have the touch definitions added and Touch is working fine in my preferred April build.

It broke with the May build, in exactly the same way Touch on all my other surfaces broke (hence the move back to April)
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 07:33 AM   #10770
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Yep, quite true I have the touch definitions added and Touch is working fine in my preferred April build.

It broke with the May build, in exactly the same way Touch on all my other surfaces broke (hence the move back to April)
Hmmm...

Touch is working fine here in the latest build, what Navigator are you using ?

Right now touch only works with TrackNavigator and MasterTrackNavigator, SelectedTrackNavigator and FocusedTrackNavigator yet to be completed...

TrackTouch is now called FaderTouch.

Last edited by Geoff Waddington; 10-26-2020 at 07:40 AM.
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 07:51 AM   #10771
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 1,768
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Hmmm...

Touch is working fine here in the latest build, what Navigator are you using ?

Right now touch only works with TrackNavigator and MasterTrackNavigator, SelectedTrackNavigator and FocusedTrackNavigator yet to be completed...

TrackTouch is now called FaderTouch.
Yep, got all that and it is working with MCU surfaces (last time I checked)

This is what I get when I use Touch on OSC:


EDIT: Hang on a sec, think I might have found it...
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 07:56 AM   #10772
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 1,768
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Yep, got all that and it is working with MCU surfaces (last time I checked)

This is what I get when I use Touch on OSC:


EDIT: Hang on a sec, think I might have found it...

Yep, my bad. Hadn't changed TrackTouch to FaderTouch in the ipad.zon. Move along, nothing to see here
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 10:48 AM   #10773
Nick Morris
Human being with feelings
 
Nick Morris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 486
Default

Eucon Touch automation is working as expected. I am testing the rotaries and they seem to be working right, but I am seeing a little funkiness in the envelopes that are recorded through automation. ...It may just be the artist mix and the extreme example I am using. When I turn the rotary really fast left or right, the envelope becomes more jagged, like saw teeth. If I move it slowly, the jaggedness isn't there.
When I flip to faders and record these type movements with the fader onto the same envelope I do not get the jaggedness. Only with the rotary. This is only with very fast movement.

This typical with the artist mix? I only see this when turning it as fast as I can and I was only testing the new build. I'll never notice this behavior since I wouldn't turn these so violently in a mix situation, but figured I'd mention it.
__________________
www.ElaireStudios.com
Robo-Mic RMS robotic remote controlled mic stands aimed at mic'ing amps
Nick Morris is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 11:51 AM   #10774
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris View Post
Eucon Touch automation is working as expected. I am testing the rotaries and they seem to be working right, but I am seeing a little funkiness in the envelopes that are recorded through automation. ...It may just be the artist mix and the extreme example I am using. When I turn the rotary really fast left or right, the envelope becomes more jagged, like saw teeth. If I move it slowly, the jaggedness isn't there.
When I flip to faders and record these type movements with the fader onto the same envelope I do not get the jaggedness. Only with the rotary. This is only with very fast movement.

This typical with the artist mix? I only see this when turning it as fast as I can and I was only testing the new build. I'll never notice this behavior since I wouldn't turn these so violently in a mix situation, but figured I'd mention it.
Thanks, good to know rotary touch is working.

My Mix rotaries are so baffed they often go in the wrong direction

I wouldn't worry too much about the behaviour if you never turn them that fast
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 11:52 AM   #10775
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,522
Default

New build is up.

First shot at touch for SelectedTrack and FocusedFXTrack, give it a whirl.
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 11:56 AM   #10776
kevrose
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: That London they have now
Posts: 82
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Yep, quite true I have the touch definitions added and Touch is working fine in my preferred April build.

It broke with the May build, in exactly the same way Touch on all my other surfaces broke (hence the move back to April)
I wonder if that's why I can't get the master track touch to select the master track on the C4? (I tried your suggestion below a while back)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Maybe you could try this in your master track zone. Touching the master fader selects the channel?

Code:
TrackTouch+MasterFader     TrackUniqueSelect
kevrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 12:17 PM   #10777
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 1,768
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevrose View Post
I wonder if that's why I can't get the master track touch to select the master track on the C4? (I tried your suggestion below a while back)
Which build are you using?

Did you have any better luck with the C4 Configurator?
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 12:18 PM   #10778
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 1,768
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

First shot at touch for SelectedTrack and FocusedFXTrack, give it a whirl.
What does FocusedFXTrack do?
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 12:39 PM   #10779
kevrose
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: That London they have now
Posts: 82
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Which build are you using?
The one from May. Is the April one still available for comparison?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Did you have any better luck with the C4 Configurator?
Afraid not Will try and get an old PC laptop with Excel on it going soon for one last try. Will let you know.
kevrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 12:45 PM   #10780
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 1,768
Default

[QUOTE=kevrose;2357483]The one from May. Is the April one still available for comparison?

It's only in the latest build that TrackTouch became FaderTouch, so that's ok. The April build is here:

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/40308/CSI%20beta-30.zip

Quote:
Afraid not Will try and get an old PC laptop with Excel on it going soon for one last try. Will let you know.
Did you see my last post about it? I got the same error message as you until I reloaded the raw fx file (which reset the save path) and then it worked normally.
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 01:57 PM   #10781
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,709
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
What does FocusedFXTrack do?
I could totally be wrong but I basically read that as...

"fixed Touch automation on SelectedTrack navigator and FocusedFX Navigator."
Funkybot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 02:21 PM   #10782
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
What does FocusedFXTrack do?
Nothing, I meant touch on the track that the focused FX is on
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 02:22 PM   #10783
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I could totally be wrong but I basically read that as...

"fixed Touch automation on SelectedTrack navigator and FocusedFX Navigator."
Yes, that's it
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 02:24 PM   #10784
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 1,768
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Nothing, I meant touch on the track that the focused FX is on
Ah, got it
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 04:04 PM   #10785
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,709
Default

Just ran some Touch Mode tests and I think we're close...

Worked:

1. Selected Track Navigator
2. Focused FX
3. Eucon Rotaries controlling pan

Didn't Work:

1. FocusedFXParam (my favorite CSI action)
2. EuCon + Flip Chan (had faders controlling pan)
3. Eucon FX (Rotaries or Faders via Flip Chan - using the UAD LA-2A)
Funkybot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 05:10 PM   #10786
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 1,768
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
1. FocusedFXParam (my favorite CSI action)
Would be great if this could work with Touch. FocusedFXParam is extremely useful with OSC
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 05:40 PM   #10787
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Just ran some Touch Mode tests and I think we're close...

Worked:

1. Selected Track Navigator
2. Focused FX
3. Eucon Rotaries controlling pan
Great news !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Didn't Work:

1. FocusedFXParam (my favorite CSI action)
You need to have a FocusedFXNavigator for the zone that the FocusedFXParam is in, and you also need to define touch something like this:

Code:
FocusedFXNavigator
Pan_RotaryTouch1       RotaryTouch
Pan_Rotary1 FocusedFXParam
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
2. EuCon + Flip Chan (had faders controlling pan)
3. Eucon FX (Rotaries or Faders via Flip Chan - using the UAD LA-2A)
You will have to define touch for the zones as above.
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 06:05 PM   #10788
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,709
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
You need to have a FocusedFXNavigator for the zone that the FocusedFXParam is in, and you also need to define touch something like this:
Hi Geoff, this is what I have in my X-Touch_One_Selected_Track.zon...

Code:
Zone "FocusedFXParam"
	FocusedFXNavigator
   	Fader1 						FocusedFXParam
	FaderTouch1  					FaderTouch
	DisplayUpper1 					FocusedFXParamNameDisplay
	DisplayLower1 					FocusedFXParamValueDisplay
ZoneEnd
This is not working with Touch automation. Am I doing something wrong? Note: this is in the Surface.zon not an FX.zon. Why? Because I use FocusedFXParam for when I don't have an fx.zon already and want to make a quick adjustment.

I think I've only used FocusedFXNavigator in fx zon files previously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkybot
2. EuCon + Flip Chan (had faders controlling pan)
You will have to define touch for the zones as above.
Totally lost as to how that would look like for #2 - Flip Chan. There's no "Flip Chan" zone in the Eucon.zon file. It just kind of works. So if I wanted to Flip and then use the faders to control pan, I'd expect FaderTouch = FaderTouch to do that or at least RotaryTouch = RotaryTouch.

Might need to see an example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkybot
3. Eucon FX (Rotaries or Faders via Flip Chan - using the UAD LA-2A)
You will have to define touch for the zones as above.
Similarly confused. Might need an example here too using this particular Eucon effect as a starting point...

Code:
Zone "VST: UAD Teletronix LA-2A Gray (Universal Audio, Inc.)" "LA2AGray"
	SelectedTrackNavigator

	Toggle+Invert+FX_SwitchUpper2Ch1 FXParam "6" "Bypass"
	FX_Display2Ch1 	FXParamNameDisplay "6" "LA 2A"

	FX_Rotary2Ch2 	FXParam "0" "Thresh" "2"
	FX_Display2Ch2 	FXParamNameDisplay "0" "Thresh"
Funkybot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 09:25 PM   #10789
RobinGShore
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 569
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Thanks, also check out the latest EuCon build just posted and see if rotaries now work properly as well.
Getting closer, but I'm still seeing lots of bugs. The bugs all seem dependent on what parameter I'm trying to write to, and not on whether I'm using the rotaries instead of the faders. I made a video that shows the bugs I'm currently seeing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FntYezOmx8U

Here's a rundown, some of this is a little hard to explain in just text, so definitely take a look at the video if anything doesn't make sense.

Volume Automation
Works as expected both with the fader, or if I hit flip and use the rotaries to automate volume

Pan
If the controller is in pan mode when Reaper/CSI first starts, then writing pan automation in touch mode doesn't work correctly. I can write pan data, and when I release the controller the envelope in reaper returns to its initial value, but the pan value on the controller stays latched and is therefore mismatched from the pan envelope in reaper. This makes it so that the next time I try to write pan from the controller , it starts writing again from the wrong value in Reaper. This happens with both the rotaries and if I flip the pan onto the fader. If I switch the controller to show another parameter besides pan (by hitting the aux for example so that it shows sends) and then quickly switch it back to showing pan, the bug goes away and pan automation starts working correctly. The bug comes back when Reaper is restarted. Please take a look at the video if any of this is unclear.

Width
Lots of weird behavior going on with width automation. Adjusting the pan from the controller makes the width envelope in Reaper also act as if it's being touched. The value of the width doesn't change when you turn the pan knob, it just writes a static value as if it's being touched, but not moved. If I do try to write actual width automation from the controller, the doesn't sense that it being touched and constantly pushes back against the value change creating the classic jagged envelope shape we all know and love:


Sends
If I write send automation from the controller while in touch mode, the send stays latched after I release, both on the controller and on the envelope in Reaper. This isn't a new bug, it's been happening with CSI for a long time. I know sends are still a work in progress though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris View Post
When I turn the rotary really fast left or right, the envelope becomes more jagged, like saw teeth. If I move it slowly, the jaggedness isn't there.
When I flip to faders and record these type movements with the fader onto the same envelope I do not get the jaggedness. Only with the rotary. This typical with the artist mix? I only see this when turning it as fast as I can and I was only testing the new build. I'll never notice this behavior since I wouldn't turn these so violently in a mix situation, but figured I'd mention it.
I'm seeing the same things as Nick, where automation written with the rotaries often has a jagged sawtooth pattern to it that gets worse the faster I move the knob:



It happens in both touch and latch mode. I'm pretty sure this is new behavior that popped up within the last few builds, I don't remember it happening in the earlier builds from a few months ago
RobinGShore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 11:22 PM   #10790
Petzi
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 29
Default

Hey guys,

Quick question about CSI.ini : what should I put in the MIDI In and Out values ?

My surface (old Qcon Lite) sends to channel 1 (confirmed by a MIDI sniffer), but everytime I put that in the CSI.ini, these values in the file are overwritten by Reaper, who puts the MIDI device IDs instead (4 and 6).

Not sure if that's the reason why, but I can't seem to get my surface recognized at all

(oh, and what's the best way to debug CSI issues ? the debug console doesn't show a single event )
Attached Files
File Type: zip qcon-csi.zip (1.4 KB, 8 views)
__________________
Reaper/Pro Tools running on an overclocked ZX81. Presonus Scarlett. Guitars. Greasy fingers.
Petzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2020, 12:39 AM   #10791
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petzi View Post
Hey guys,

Quick question about CSI.ini : what should I put in the MIDI In and Out values ?

My surface (old Qcon Lite) sends to channel 1 (confirmed by a MIDI sniffer), but everytime I put that in the CSI.ini, these values in the file are overwritten by Reaper, who puts the MIDI device IDs instead (4 and 6).

Not sure if that's the reason why, but I can't seem to get my surface recognized at all

(oh, and what's the best way to debug CSI issues ? the debug console doesn't show a single event )
The value in CSI.ini is a port number, not a channel number.

Midi channels are meaningless in the control surface world, the Midi protocol is "hijacked" by surface controller manufacturers and the meanings of messages are completely different.

This is one of the hardest things to get your head around, especially if you are used to the normal meanings of the Midi protocol.

For example 90 is often used for switches.

In Midi the 0 represents channel number, but in "control surface speak" it has no such meaning, it is just the first byte used to indicate a switch.

Very confusing, I know
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2020, 12:47 AM   #10792
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore View Post
Getting closer, but I'm still seeing lots of bugs. The bugs all seem dependent on what parameter I'm trying to write to, and not on whether I'm using the rotaries instead of the faders. I made a video that shows the bugs I'm currently seeing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FntYezOmx8U

Here's a rundown, some of this is a little hard to explain in just text, so definitely take a look at the video if anything doesn't make sense.

Volume Automation
Works as expected both with the fader, or if I hit flip and use the rotaries to automate volume

Pan
If the controller is in pan mode when Reaper/CSI first starts, then writing pan automation in touch mode doesn't work correctly. I can write pan data, and when I release the controller the envelope in reaper returns to its initial value, but the pan value on the controller stays latched and is therefore mismatched from the pan envelope in reaper. This makes it so that the next time I try to write pan from the controller , it starts writing again from the wrong value in Reaper. This happens with both the rotaries and if I flip the pan onto the fader. If I switch the controller to show another parameter besides pan (by hitting the aux for example so that it shows sends) and then quickly switch it back to showing pan, the bug goes away and pan automation starts working correctly. The bug comes back when Reaper is restarted. Please take a look at the video if any of this is unclear.

Width
Lots of weird behavior going on with width automation. Adjusting the pan from the controller makes the width envelope in Reaper also act as if it's being touched. The value of the width doesn't change when you turn the pan knob, it just writes a static value as if it's being touched, but not moved. If I do try to write actual width automation from the controller, the doesn't sense that it being touched and constantly pushes back against the value change creating the classic jagged envelope shape we all know and love:


Sends
If I write send automation from the controller while in touch mode, the send stays latched after I release, both on the controller and on the envelope in Reaper. This isn't a new bug, it's been happening with CSI for a long time. I know sends are still a work in progress though.




I'm seeing the same things as Nick, where automation written with the rotaries often has a jagged sawtooth pattern to it that gets worse the faster I move the knob:



It happens in both touch and latch mode. I'm pretty sure this is new behavior that popped up within the last few builds, I don't remember it happening in the earlier builds from a few months ago
Thanks for the fabulous testing as usual !

Volume -- glad to see that seems to be sorted out.

Pan -- Ok, so at least there is an easy workaround for now, just remember to select something else first, then select Pan, when you start Reaper -- I know, not the greatest, but at least there is a workaround

Width, Sends -- Will investigate...

Jagged behaviour upon fast moves -- does changing the Control surface update frequency in the Reaper prefs have any effect ?

Does using touch when writing width automation work if you use the old EuCon extension ?

Last edited by Geoff Waddington; 10-27-2020 at 01:06 AM.
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2020, 02:43 AM   #10793
Petzi
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
The value in CSI.ini is a port number, not a channel number.

Midi channels are meaningless in the control surface world, the Midi protocol is "hijacked" by surface controller manufacturers and the meanings of messages are completely different.

This is one of the hardest things to get your head around, especially if you are used to the normal meanings of the Midi protocol.

For example 90 is often used for switches.

In Midi the 0 represents channel number, but in "control surface speak" it has no such meaning, it is just the first byte used to indicate a switch.

Very confusing, I know
Hey Geoff,

Thanks for the answer It's much clearer now !

How do I troubleshoot CSI and the surface ? I've recreated an MST file that contains only the play button, created a super simple zone, added the surface pointing to the two files, but still no luck. Any logging capability that I could use to at least confirm that there's no parsing issue of the files ? (I have the "[developer] Debug console" running, but it's not showing anything ... and "CSI show input" opens no windows)


OK, got it working after a while ... pressing a button now opens the "ReaScript console output" window ! I can see the name of the button, and the name of the surface being displayed :

IN <- Lite PlayBtn 1.000000
IN <- Lite 90 5e 00

That tells me the MST file is properly read ("PlayBtn"), and my console is configured ("Lite"). So the problem lies within my Zone file

One step at a time ..
__________________
Reaper/Pro Tools running on an overclocked ZX81. Presonus Scarlett. Guitars. Greasy fingers.

Last edited by Petzi; 10-27-2020 at 06:01 AM.
Petzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2020, 05:59 AM   #10794
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petzi View Post
Hey Geoff,

Thanks for the answer It's much clearer now !

How do I troubleshoot CSI and the surface ? I've recreated an MST file that contains only the play button, created a super simple zone, added the surface pointing to the two files, but still no luck. Any logging capability that I could use to at least confirm that there's no parsing issue of the files ? (I have the "[developer] Debug console" running, but it's not showing anything ... and "CSI show input" opens no windows)
Cool, you are going about it the right way, starting simple.

Please post the contents of CSI.ini, your .mst and .zon files, you can use the Code tags to make it look better, I'll use the word Lode instead of Code to fool the forum software, otherwise it will think I want to put in some code

[Lode]
Content of your file goes here
[/Lode]
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2020, 06:01 AM   #10795
pwallin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 85
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post

Jagged behaviour upon fast moves -- does changing the Control surface update frequency in the Reaper prefs have any effect ?

Does using touch when writing width automation work if you use the old EuCon extension ?
Not directly related to a subject, but I saw interesting thing in these images. Because my X-Touch has a jitter/rattling automation faders, they could be related to a similar curve as in this image. Only difference is, that when moving down, the X-Touch is smooth, but going up it rattles and it's own "performance curve" could be as jagged as in this image. I wonder if I could somehow capture it's "performance curve" to see how it actually looks. P.S. I hope I described meaning of "performance curve" understandably.
pwallin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2020, 06:13 AM   #10796
pwallin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 85
Default

I tried whole afternoon to find examples how to make "Flip" between faders/Encoders work. It seems my brain can't solve this easily.
pwallin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2020, 07:26 AM   #10797
Petzi
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Cool, you are going about it the right way, starting simple.

Please post the contents of CSI.ini, your .mst and .zon files, you can use the Code tags to make it look better, I'll use the word Lode instead of Code to fool the forum software, otherwise it will think I want to put in some code

[Lode]
Content of your file goes here
[/Lode]
It works I started my zone file from scratch, with the Home and Buttons zones... A quick refresh, and it's now working

I'm now slowly adding all my buttons, and adding a few features one by one to make sure I don't have to debug 200 potential issues

Thanks a bunch for the help ! I'll post my final files here once they're done, in the unlikely case someone else on the planet uses this surface
__________________
Reaper/Pro Tools running on an overclocked ZX81. Presonus Scarlett. Guitars. Greasy fingers.
Petzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2020, 08:58 AM   #10798
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 10,823
Default

Just tested my MST and ZON files for the most recent beta from October 26th with no flaws that I could find yet.

Presonus Faderport 16 in Studio One mode.
One Midifighter Twister with all knobs in relative mode.
One pair of Novation Dicers(sadly a discontinued product).

Working great.

OSC is my next goal, though I'm dreading having to trawl through failure after failure to find out how it works.
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview - Faderport16CSI
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2020, 09:47 AM   #10799
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwallin View Post
I tried whole afternoon to find examples how to make "Flip" between faders/Encoders work. It seems my brain can't solve this easily.
Just copy the first zone and rename it to something else -- TheZone, TheFlippedZone

Simply exchange the Actions for the rotary and fader in TheFlippedZone.

Set up a button to Go between something like this:

Code:
Zone "TheZone"
    ButtonThatChangesZone GoZone "TheFlippedZone"
    Fader FaderAction
    Rotary RotaryAction
ZoneEnd

Zone "TheFlippedZone"
    ButtonThatChangesZone GoZone "TheZone"
    Fader RotaryAction
    Rotary FaderAction
ZoneEnd
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2020, 09:49 AM   #10800
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Just tested my MST and ZON files for the most recent beta from October 26th with no flaws that I could find yet.

Presonus Faderport 16 in Studio One mode.
One Midifighter Twister with all knobs in relative mode.
One pair of Novation Dicers(sadly a discontinued product).

Working great.

OSC is my next goal, though I'm dreading having to trawl through failure after failure to find out how it works.
Excellent, thanks for testing.

Have a look at the supplied iPhone and iPad .ost and .zon files for examples of OSC.
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.