Muffled and awful sound quality

masdaf · 05-29-2020, 04:32 AM

Hi, I use Reaper with Bias Fx 2 plugin and until some time ago was having a blast with it. Then, one day I get this very muffled and just downright terrible sound coming out of it. I didn't change a setting, it just happened. I messed around a bit but couldn't solve it. Then, I uninstalled Reaper and then reinstalled it and to my surprise the problem was gone. For a few hours. Then it came back and kept coming back unless I uninstall and reinstall. And now it doesn't go away even after I reinstalled it. I don't know what to do. Any suggestions? Thank you a million times in advance, I just couldn't find anything on this.

Edit (updates): (new) Okay, I don't know why I haven't tried this before but I'm shocked. When recorded with that crappy sound and rendered, the exported recording was just fine! But I'm still hearing the terrible sound while I'm playing and also when I play the recording on Reaper. But what does this mean? Where is the problem exactly?

I have both Reaper and Bias Fx 2 licenced.

I tried different guitar, guitar cable, aux cable and speaker.

When I play the guitar directly without FX or bypass Bias it still sounds just a bit muffled but nowhere near bad as when it's with FX

When I use Bias standalone, it works just fine, the problem is only when I use it as a plugin in Reaper

There is also significant latency accompanying the crappy sound. ( I think this point is important but I lack the knowledge to understand why)

When I listen to a track (a song) on reaper, it sounds perfectly normal.

Thank you everyone who's trying to find the solution, you are perfect human beings!

somebodyelseuk · 05-29-2020, 06:55 AM

Maybe the virtual valves are knackered 😁

Sorry, is it a trial vetsion or demo? If so, could be their way of telling you it's time to pay up.
I have inadvertently hit keyboard shortcuts that cause me to scratch my head in the past. If something weird suddenly happens these days, first place I look is the title bar to see if it says I did something by accident, also my undo history.
Only other thing I can think of is hardware failing - interface, speakers or more likely a cable.

carbon · 05-29-2020, 07:12 AM

How does the direct guitar sound - is it OK?
Maybe try some other plugins to see if it's a problem only with Bias.

masdaf · 05-29-2020, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebodyelseuk

Maybe the virtual valves are knackered 😁

Sorry, is it a trial vetsion or demo? If so, could be their way of telling you it's time to pay up.
I have inadvertently hit keyboard shortcuts that cause me to scratch my head in the past. If something weird suddenly happens these days, first place I look is the title bar to see if it says I did something by accident, also my undo history.
Only other thing I can think of is hardware failing - interface, speakers or more likely a cable.

You got me there for a second with that virtual valve thing.

It is a trial but you made me suspect so I entered the temporary licence key they give away and the problem didn't go away.

Upon your suggestion I tried a different speaker with a different aux cable and also another guitar cable and another guitar but nothing worked

masdaf · 05-29-2020, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbon

How does the direct guitar sound - is it OK?
Maybe try some other plugins to see if it's a problem only with Bias.

It's nowhere near the terrible sound I'm getting on fx but I can feel that's muffled too. Also I'd like to point out when I use Bias FX 2 standalone, without Repaer, it works just fine

Coachz · 05-29-2020, 08:34 AM

Drag a song that you know very well into Reaper and play it back from your audio player and then also from Reaper and compare. The sound should be identical

masdaf · 05-29-2020, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

Drag a song that you know very well into Reaper and play it back from your audio player and then also from Reaper and compare. The sound should be identical

it is identical. I think that means there is something wrong with the Bias plugin? But what could it be? And how can I fix it?

richie43 · 05-29-2020, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebodyelseuk

Maybe the virtual valves are knackered 😁

Sorry, is it a trial vetsion or demo? If so, could be their way of telling you it's time to pay up.
I have inadvertently hit keyboard shortcuts that cause me to scratch my head in the past. If something weird suddenly happens these days, first place I look is the title bar to see if it says I did something by accident, also my undo history.
Only other thing I can think of is hardware failing - interface, speakers or more likely a cable.

Reaper does not change functionality or quality when the trial expires, by the way. In fact, it works flawlessly forever besides a nag screen that says that your trial has expired.
The audio issue the OP is describing is likely a plugin or hardware.

Coachz · 05-29-2020, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masdaf

it is identical. I think that means there is something wrong with the Bias plugin? But what could it be? And how can I fix it?

Interesting. When you put the bias plug-in in and hit the bypass mode in bias is it still clear? Maybe there's some setting in bias that is creating a low pass filter or something. Sliding bypass with bias engaged you can see that the plug-in is clean in the bypass mode and then try to find a setting with basically nothing modified and give that a shot.

somebodyelseuk · 05-29-2020, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richie43

Reaper does not change functionality or quality when the trial expires, by the way. In fact, it works flawlessly forever besides a nag screen that says that your trial has expired.
The audio issue the OP is describing is likely a plugin or hardware.

I know. I was talking about BIAS FX

masdaf · 05-29-2020, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

Interesting. When you put the bias plug-in in and hit the bypass mode in bias is it still clear? Maybe there's some setting in bias that is creating a low pass filter or something. Sliding bypass with bias engaged you can see that the plug-in is clean in the bypass mode and then try to find a setting with basically nothing modified and give that a shot.

How can I toggle bypass mode on? I am not very Reaper-savvy, sorry.

Coachz · 05-29-2020, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masdaf

How can I toggle bypass mode on? I am not very Reaper-savvy, sorry.

I mean bypass IN bias fx. That would be in your bias fx manual.

masdaf · 05-30-2020, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

I mean bypass IN bias fx. That would be in your bias fx manual.

I removed everything in a preset, all the pedals amps and effects so that it would only bypass. And when I do this the sound is somewhat okay (not great, just not terrible) but as soon as I turn on a distortion pedal or amp, that muffled sound comes back.

But now I've noticed something that might help us crack this case. There is latency. When I use Bias standalone, there is almost no latency but in Reaper, with all this terrible sound, there is also significant latency.

Coachz · 05-30-2020, 05:50 AM

Do you have anything on your master track that would cause the latency? I looked in the manual and I don't see a bypass for the effect. Reaper has a bypass in the top right corner of the effect window so you should be able to toggle that in and out and see if the latency and the muffling goes away. Also what does the input look like on the bottom left? Is it a nice green filling the meter? You're playing guitar into this right. What does your level look like on the reaper track pre fader? I think that setting for Reaper meter pre and post fader is in the options menu.

valy · 05-30-2020, 06:01 AM

Can you save your working settings in standalone mode as a preset, then load those into the VST in Reaper and test?

masdaf · 05-30-2020, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

Do you have anything on your master track that would cause the latency? I looked in the manual and I don't see a bypass for the effect. Reaper has a bypass in the top right corner of the effect window so you should be able to toggle that in and out and see if the latency and the muffling goes away. Also what does the input look like on the bottom left? Is it a nice green filling the meter? You're playing guitar into this right. What does your level look like on the reaper track pre fader? I think that setting for Reaper meter pre and post fader is in the options menu.

I used the toggle to bypass and it was the same as direct guitar, no change in latency. Actually this time latency doesn't feel that significant. I am not sure.

Everything's normal. Nothing in my master track. The bar fills up to green. I checked the pre fader option on options but nothing new appeared.

masdaf · 05-30-2020, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valy

Can you save your working settings in standalone mode as a preset, then load those into the VST in Reaper and test?

no matter what setting and preset I use in Reaper it sounds terrible and it always sounds fine in standalone mode in Bias

Stoker · 05-30-2020, 06:19 AM

I think I'm having a similar issue. I'm using Reaper 6.11 64-bit on Windows 10 and Bias FX 2 to process guitar parts.

I've usually got Bass and 2 or 3 guitar tracks all running through Bias FX 2 using various pre-sets in my projects.

I'd say about 1 in 3 times that I load a project one or more of the tracks running through Bias FX 2 is muffled. I'd describe it as very much reduced in level and kind of distorted. If I click in the bypass tick box (top right of FX: dialog box on a track) the sound level becomes exactly as you expect, raw audio as recorded. No amount of enabling/disabling will get the correct sound out of the track with Bias FX enabled.

I've tried changing the preset on effected tracks but new preset is also low level and distorted. The Only way I've found to fix the issue is to remove Bias FX from the track and then re-add it. It then usually works correctly for me. Closing down Reaper and re-opening works too except that there still seems to be a 1 in 3 chance that it opens up distorted again.

This has caught me out a couple of times when I rendered a mix to find that I couldn't hear the guitar solo in the rendered file!

Cheers
--Ian

Coachz · 05-30-2020, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masdaf

I used the toggle to bypass and it was the same as direct guitar, no change in latency. Actually this time latency doesn't feel that significant. I am not sure.

Everything's normal. Nothing in my master track. The bar fills up to green. I checked the pre fader option on options but nothing new appeared.

What level is your guitar prefader on the reaper track meter? -10dB?

Coachz · 05-30-2020, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoker

I think I'm having a similar issue. I'm using Reaper 6.11 64-bit on Windows 10 and Bias FX 2 to process guitar parts.

I've usually got Bass and 2 or 3 guitar tracks all running through Bias FX 2 using various pre-sets in my projects.

I'd say about 1 in 3 times that I load a project one or more of the tracks running through Bias FX 2 is muffled. I'd describe it as very much reduced in level and kind of distorted. If I click in the bypass tick box (top right of FX: dialog box on a track) the sound level becomes exactly as you expect, raw audio as recorded. No amount of enabling/disabling will get the correct sound out of the track with Bias FX enabled.

I've tried changing the preset on effected tracks but new preset is also low level and distorted. The Only way I've found to fix the issue is to remove Bias FX from the track and then re-add it. It then usually works correctly for me. Closing down Reaper and re-opening works too except that there still seems to be a 1 in 3 chance that it opens up distorted again.

This has caught me out a couple of times when I rendered a mix to find that I couldn't hear the guitar solo in the rendered file!

Cheers
--Ian

Is it vst3? Can you try a vst2 version?

Multibomber · 05-30-2020, 06:54 AM

Its worth pointing out that Bias FX is probably the worst guitar FX plugin I've ever paid for. It's impossibly bad for heavy guitar tones... utter and complete dogshit. Get any of thr Neural DSP plugins, either the NTS, Plini, or Nolly, and never look back. Also, their Parallax plugin is the absolute best bass guitar plugin in EVER. That being said, maybe you could post a screen shot and maybe a sample of the muffled tone and it could help us figure out what this awful plugin is doing to sound even more terrible than it normally does.

Coachz · 05-30-2020, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multibomber

Its worth pointing out that Bias FX is probably the worst guitar FX plugin I've ever paid for. It's impossibly bad for heavy guitar tones... utter and complete dogshit. Get any of thr Neural DSP plugins, either the NTS, Plini, or Nolly, and never look back. Also, their Parallax plugin is the absolute best bass guitar plugin in EVER. That being said, maybe you could post a screen shot and maybe a sample of the muffled tone and it could help us figure out what this awful plugin is doing to sound even more terrible than it normally does.

There's only one guitar effect I have found that I think is worth a crap and that is Helix and even it sucks unless you use third-party in pulses. Then it's quite good.

masdaf · 05-30-2020, 08:10 AM

Okay, I don't know why I haven't tried this before but I'm shocked. When recorded with that crappy sound and rendered, the recording was just fine! But what does this mean? Where is the problem exactly?

masdaf · 05-30-2020, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

What level is your guitar prefader on the reaper track meter? -10dB?

How do I check that level? Where exactly is it? Bottom left? I have one bar there for master and the other for the track and it doesn't make a difference if they are up or down.

Coachz · 05-30-2020, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masdaf

Okay, I don't know why I haven't tried this before but I'm shocked. When recorded with that crappy sound and rendered, the recording was just fine! But what does this mean? Where is the problem exactly?

Sounds like there's a problem in the monitoring section of the bias effects but the section that does the rendering it's working

masdaf · 05-30-2020, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

Sounds like there's a problem in the monitoring section of the bias effects but the section that does the rendering it's working

Do you have any idea how it might be fixed?

Coachz · 05-30-2020, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masdaf

Do you have any idea how it might be fixed?

Is this vst3 or vst2? Try the other version of whatever you currently use.

gofer · 05-30-2020, 12:49 PM

Maybe I overlooked it when scanning the thread, but did you check whether there’s a plugin in Reaper’s monitoring FX chain?

Coachz · 05-30-2020, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gofer

Maybe I overlooked it when scanning the thread, but did you check whether there’s a plugin in Reaper’s monitoring FX chain?

He said that bypassing the effect in the reaper fx gui cleans everything up so I don't expect that to be the problem but who knows

masdaf · 05-30-2020, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

Is this vst3 or vst2? Try the other version of whatever you currently use.

Sorry for not knowing this but could you tell me how can I check which one it is and how to possibly change it? Thanks.

masdaf · 05-30-2020, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gofer

Maybe I overlooked it when scanning the thread, but did you check whether there’s a plugin in Reaper’s monitoring FX chain?

I don't think there is but that's another thing I don't know how to check so yeah, who knows

Coachz · 05-30-2020, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masdaf

Sorry for not knowing this but could you tell me how can I check which one it is and how to possibly change it? Thanks.

Close reaper and uninstall and reinstall bias fx and during install pick both vst2 and vst3 if available. Then when you pick the vst in reaper it will say if its vst3 next to it. Try both if available and report back.

masdaf · 05-31-2020, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

Close reaper and uninstall and reinstall bias fx and during install pick both vst2 and vst3 if available. Then when you pick the vst in reaper it will say if its vst3 next to it. Try both if available and report back.

I did that now and there is absolutely no option during Bias installation to pick vst version. Also there is only one Bias fx 2 option or reaper and that just says VST without any version info

jinotsuh · 05-31-2020, 03:09 AM

For Windows BIAS (any of them) only come as VST2, not VST3 (and some possibly AAX Native)

Coachz · 05-31-2020, 03:28 AM

Time to be the water that goes around the rock and use a different plug.in

masdaf · 05-31-2020, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

Time to be the water that goes around the rock and use a different plug.in

Dude. I can't do that. I love this plugin. And I feel like we are close to the answer and it's killing me that it's still not fixed. I like to be the water that breaks through the rock, stupidly persistent.

I will find a way, some day somehow. Thanks for your help so far, for real.

Coachz · 05-31-2020, 04:31 AM

The fact that it renders correctly but monitors muffled seems to indicate the monitor path of the bias fx is broken in Reaper.

masdaf · 05-31-2020, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

The fact that it renders correctly but monitors muffled seems to indicate the monitor path of the bias fx is broken in Reaper.

So how do you explain that when I uninstalled and reinstalled Reaper, the problem went away, for a few hours. I just can't understand why this might be.

Coachz · 05-31-2020, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masdaf

So how do you explain that when I uninstalled and reinstalled Reaper, the problem went away, for a few hours. I just can't understand why this might be.

I have no idea. How about trying a 5 point X version like 5.5 or something. Go way back and see how it behaves.

masdaf · 05-31-2020, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

I have no idea. How about trying a 5 point X version like 5.5 or something. Go way back and see how it behaves.

I have just tried that. Nothing works. I really appreciate your help so far, you've been great