Old 03-05-2021, 04:12 AM   #1
ebby
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Default Panning MIDI

I have read that panning audio is straightforward but that panning MIDI is not; I believe it, I have tried. That said, there must be a way. Is the technique to take the MIDI track and route it (via a send) to a panning effect (Rea-something ?) and then take the panned signal (via a return) to the master mix?
Thank you.
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Old 03-05-2021, 05:00 AM   #2
Stella645
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MIDI is generally a trigger for an instrument that produces audio and so you can usually pan the audio.

Clarify what is producing the sound you want to pan?
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Old 03-05-2021, 05:11 AM   #3
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Maybe it's not exactly what you need, but try this plugin: https://stash.reaper.fm/theme/1229/MIDIPanner VST

Last edited by vitalker; 03-05-2021 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 03-05-2021, 05:27 AM   #4
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Panning MIDI is really a leftover of the GM synth days, where each instrument would be sent on a different MIDI channel to a single outboard unit.

As Stella645 says, we can't really help without more information on what you're using and what you want to achieve.
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Old 03-05-2021, 07:52 AM   #5
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Default Diagram of MIDI panning

Hopefully, the diagram shows what I would like to achieve.
Rather the bright purple bar between Reaper tracks and Panned sound is what I would like help in implementing.
I'm currently using VirtualMIDISynth with the FluidR3_GM soundfont to give sound to the MIDI I have imported into Reaper.
I haven't yet investigated the MIDIPanner VST but if that is what is required (seems like it would do), I'll put the time into getting it to work.
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File Type: jpg midi_panning_1.jpg (44.5 KB, 99 views)
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Old 03-05-2021, 09:07 AM   #6
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it sounds like you are using General MIDI, so all you need to do is adjust CC10 on each instrument.
You can do this in the MIDI editor or by linking the mixer's pan pot to MIDI from the track / MIDI track controls menu
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Old 03-05-2021, 11:00 AM   #7
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Yes, the FluidR3_GM soundfont does seem to be General MIDI. I have tried linking the track pan pot to MIDI, both all channels and selecting 1 for Horn and 2 for Percussion as a test, but it doesn't seem possible to pan them independently. I am surprised that what seems such a simple operation is so awkward to accomplish - I *must* be doing something wrong.

I will try the MIDIPanner VST over the weekend.
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Old 03-06-2021, 02:13 PM   #8
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No, the MIDIPanner VST isn't what I'm looking for, just a simple user-controllable pan is all I'm after.
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Old 03-06-2021, 02:35 PM   #9
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Are you just looking to set up static positions on the sound stage?

If so, just enter the values for each channel in CC10 lane in the MIDI editor.
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Old 03-06-2021, 03:24 PM   #10
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Yes, just set an independent static pan position for each MIDI track on the sound stage.
Finally found the dialog to set the Pan Position MSB, and set it to 1 and 126 but it doesn't seem to do anything.
Sometimes a more elaborate list appears allowing me to set 10/42 Pan Position (?)
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Old 03-08-2021, 03:24 AM   #11
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Have you tried changing CC10 in the MIDI editor?
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Old 03-08-2021, 03:32 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders View Post
Have you tried changing CC10 in the MIDI editor?
It will work only if the instrument supports it.
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Old 03-08-2021, 04:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
It will work only if the instrument supports it.
I'd be surprised if VirtualMIDISynth didn't, but there's only one way to find out!
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Old 03-08-2021, 06:57 AM   #14
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Default Summary so far

Generally, I found the MIDI editor awkward to use, CC10 didn't seem to work if that's the same as 10 Pan Position MS. I already have the MIDI in media files, I'd be unlikely to edit it.

So, what has worked is using the ReaControlMIDI dialog.

Using this dialog, I loaded the GM.reabank though I don't know if this is necessary. Decided to try out panning on a trumpet and a horn. Set Bank/Program Select to General MIDI, Trumpet,French Horn. Enabled Control Change so that Pan, Volume and PitchWheel become usable (not planning to use the latter, it's a trumpet,horn not a trombone) and pinned the dialogs so they don't disappear. Also used the menu item Link track volume/pan controls to MIDI.. so that I can control the track from the Mixer.

I now have independent pan and volume control over 2 independent MIDI tracks, as I had hoped for. Still struggling to understand why this is not the default behaviour...

I don't know whether this is only good for 15 MIDI tracks (losing ch10 to percussion), and thereafter I'll have to resort to MIDI busses and the like, but that's tomorrow's problem.

Thanks for the pointers so far.
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Old 03-09-2021, 03:51 PM   #15
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Hi,
Or you can turn reaper faders into midi volume and pan controls.
Right click on TCP to bring up a menu. Its in there.
Forgot the exact name of the command. And I just used it yesterday:-)
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Old 03-10-2021, 03:59 AM   #16
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As it has been said, it's dependent to the GM Midi player you use.
You could try Bassmidi player. It figures a pan control for each track you use.
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Old 03-10-2021, 04:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jean-yves View Post
As it has been said, it's dependent to the GM Midi player you use.
The whole point of GM is that it should conform to a certain standard -it shouldn't be dependent on the soundbank or the player.
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Old 03-10-2021, 06:49 AM   #18
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Hi,

I was just saying that you can pan midi channel in a tool such as the Bassmidi player vst, assuming that you mute or delete the CC information in the midi file.

I use it everyday. I put Bassmidi in a folder track, then import my midi instruments files in the tracks inside the folder. I can do a rough mixing without taxing RAM or CPU before evolving towards more convincing instruments once I'm satisfied with the song in itself.

That's all. I am not arguing about the Midi norm.
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Old 03-11-2021, 02:07 PM   #19
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"I can do a rough mixing without taxing RAM or CPU before evolving towards more convincing instruments once I'm satisfied with the song in itself."

Exactement!
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Old 03-12-2021, 02:30 AM   #20
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You could also made a folder track with a "good" sampler (a multi-layer one) in place of a GM midi player.

I have a template track I did for such purpose. For myself, I tend to use Independence Pro with 16 layers (one for each midi channel), with an instrument loaded in each layer, corresponding to the midi norm (10 for drums, 11 for bass, etc.).

I do the mixing in the sampler, with the benefit of a much better sound and control of the gain of that mix. In this way you load just one instance of the sampler. Not so simple as the GM Midi player way, but more satisfactory regarding the sounds you get.

You should be aware that each subtrack includes the correct midi information about the channel in order to make it work flawlessly.

That beeing said,I have the feeling that we musicians are too much obsessed with the sound.

The simple GM midi player solution allows to be more focused on the song itself and its core qualities or flaws. By the way, I like it very much to be able to work on a song with my old laptop when I'm away, in a train or at the hotel, without having concerns about RAM, CPU, audio interface and the like.

I am a guitar and bass player at the core, but I declare solemnly that midi is great!
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Old 04-16-2021, 05:41 AM   #21
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Default Update

So, it turns out that using BassMidiVSTi (with the FluidR3_GM soundfont) is the approach that really seems to work. Using VirtualMIDISynth restricted me to having all trumpets panned together. As a test, I am currently panning 9 trumpets across the 'stage' independently using the pan controls in the Mixer tab; so Reaper works for me up to this point. At some point, I will try panning >16 different instruments completely independently.
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Old 04-16-2021, 07:18 AM   #22
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get and install this

http://x42-plugins.com/x42/x42-gmsynth

load this
https://stash.reaper.fm/41795/202104...est_lv_x42.rpp

and you get this

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FKr...ew?usp=sharing


all midi
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