Old 12-14-2019, 07:51 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Crumbfort View Post
Wasn't sure if this was the place to ask this question, but what the heck!

I'm having trouble identifying which CC lane is currently active in the MIDI editor when multiple items are selected at the same time (see attachment).

I realize all the items are the same color (I color instruments from similar orchestral "groups" the same for easy macro identifying) but this wasn't an issue for me with the old system of CC "bars".

Is there a setting I'm missing somewhere that makes the actively selected items CC events more easily distinguishable?

Thanks!
Weird. Even though I'm still using my v5 theme with 6.01, I changed to the stock v6 Default and tried drawing CC curves for several tracks colored the same, and the envelope of the selected track always jumps out in front in an obvious way.
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:40 AM   #162
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I just noticed that there are two lines visible when I edit MIDI CC. Is the "ghost" line the actual value that gets sent to the plugin, or is it just a graphical thing?



Also, here's some weirdness with that ghost-line. It goes slightly down when I select a segment.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:31 AM   #163
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It's part of your midi color map, so just a graphical thing, it's doing the same thing on my theme
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Old 12-16-2019, 05:13 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Mordi View Post
I just noticed that there are two lines visible when I edit MIDI CC. Is the "ghost" line the actual value that gets sent to the plugin, or is it just a graphical thing?
That's a graphical error of some sort. What OS please, and are you using any display scaling? Is this with the latest +dev build? Also, what does the "color" dropdown at the bottom of the MIDI editor say (you might have to widen the editor to see it)?

Last edited by schwa; 12-16-2019 at 05:36 AM.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:05 AM   #165
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That's a graphical error of some sort. What OS please, and are you using any display scaling? Is this with the latest +dev build? Also, what does the "color" dropdown at the bottom of the MIDI editor say (you might have to widen the editor to see it)?
Windows 10 x64
Reaper 6.01 x64

No display scaling. I've got two monitors connected - both are running at 1920x1080.


The color dropdown says "Track". The track in the image below is using the default color - gray.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:55 AM   #166
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Do you mind checking the latest prerelease build (actually 6.02rc1 is now posted) to see if the problem remains?

Also, does it happen even if you choose to color notes/CC by channel or any other option?

Last edited by schwa; 12-16-2019 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 12-18-2019, 06:23 AM   #167
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Do you mind checking the latest prerelease build (actually 6.02rc1 is now posted) to see if the problem remains?
Also, does it happen even if you choose to color notes/CC by channel or any other option?
It still happens in the latest release (6.02), but I've figured out that it only happens in the theme I use. I tried every theme I have. It happens regardless of the color dropdown setting.

The theme I use is Fusion.

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Old 12-18-2019, 06:55 AM   #168
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It still happens in the latest release (6.02), but I've figured out that it only happens in the theme I use. I tried every theme I have. It happens regardless of the color dropdown setting.

The theme I use is Fusion.
Ah, that color change is defined in the theme. You can see it in the notes too, if you make them tall enough.
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Old 12-19-2019, 08:37 AM   #169
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Weird. Even though I'm still using my v5 theme with 6.01, I changed to the stock v6 Default and tried drawing CC curves for several tracks colored the same, and the envelope of the selected track always jumps out in front in an obvious way.
Interesting! Think I've got a setting somewhere that needs adjusting? I really like the new envelope style CC's but I'm struggling a bit with this aspect of it.
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:43 PM   #170
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Hi everyone! long time reaper user here posting for the first time

I just saw the new update had CC envelopes added and I'm very keen to start playing around with some but I have an issue currently with the default CC parameter type.

Im trying to use my CC lanes to control a virtual lighting desk. Prior to this I was trying to use ReaControlMIDI but it doesn't seem to be cut out for what I need

The commands for the desk run via MIDI (LoopBe1) in a sequence of | CC00 - Light Desk Address 1 | CC01 - Light Desk Address 2 -/- CC95 Light Address 96

All of the CC commands (CC00-CC95) and addresses are slider controls within the virtual lighting console modifying the intensity of 'Light - Strobe - Red - Green - Blue - Auto' for 16 individual sectors

In the screenshot I posted I'm trying to make the CC00 lane have a liner increase from point a to point B but because the default Reaper CC00 command is from program changes I think it's what is stopping me from doing anything more than an 'on/off' command in the CC lane.

Is there any way to change the default CC parameter so an envelope can be correctly used? I've renamed the CC lanes but it doesn't effect the type of CC in the back end (I hope that makes sense)

For example, if I try and change a CC value that has a default name describing a panning function then the liner envelope type will still work but the style of CC drawing still denotes a panning shape (-100% - 0% - 100%)

At the moment I feel like I should cut my loses and just work around the default CC values but it would help a lot being able to brute force an envelope type regardless of the CC parameter type.
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File Type: jpg REAPER-CCd.jpg (30.7 KB, 104 views)
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:47 PM   #171
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That's correct, non-square CC shapes are not allowed in CC0, or any of the LSB lanes. We probably need to add an option to override this default behavior.
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:51 PM   #172
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Yes, that would be very good, schwa. Because LSB CCs can be used in non 14-bit capacity, still, and CC 0/32 don't always need to be bank select, either...
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Old 12-19-2019, 03:12 PM   #173
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The other thing Anubis mentions has a lot of merit, too. CC 10 is not necessarily used as pan, so an option to display it as 0 - 127 instead of the centered style would be good.
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Old 12-19-2019, 03:16 PM   #174
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Maybe this should just be a "raw mode" option for the MIDI editor?
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Old 12-19-2019, 03:19 PM   #175
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You mean in ReaControlMIDI only? I'd kinda vote against that, CC lanes should be able to cope with all these different usecases, methinks...

(For that matter, we should be able to also edit CCs 120-127 in CC lanes, because not every thing out there is General MIDI compatible nor are always those CCs reserved for the functions General MIDI uses them for.)


EDIT: I saw your edit. Yeah if MIDI editor gets a raw mode option, that'd be nice. But IMHO it should be per CC lane, not global!

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Old 12-19-2019, 03:26 PM   #176
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I noticed now that in LSB lanes indeed it's only using square shapes for nodes... I'm not sure if this is ok, because it is not showing exactly what is being done in case of using 14-bit CC lanes.

I'm not sure how to solve this, either.
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Old 12-19-2019, 10:39 PM   #177
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My current work around is to go thru each envelope and make a new CC name map indicating which ones I can use and which I cant use.

Currently can automate and record a lot of faders individually Without clashing but it's just a messy work flow using CC 78 - 79 then 65 - 67 as an example (don't think I'm using them specifically)

Reconrtol is okay but even if I set up a rewired CC alias it will effect the underlying CC channel for me. that and Reconrtol only allows 5 movements at once for me currently
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Old 12-19-2019, 11:38 PM   #178
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You can load any number of ReaControlMIDIs on a single track, though.

But it would indeed be nicer if we could just add sets of 5 sliders in a single RCM instance... old feature request from yours truly: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=128859
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Old 12-20-2019, 12:46 AM   #179
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Quote:
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Maybe this should just be a "raw mode" option for the MIDI editor?
When using mouse - to put CC to 0 or 127 is easy. To put it to 64 is not. Double click to set point at the middle is a good default for all CC lanes IMHO no matter the usage or the type of CC.

experience: a lot of midi learning of CC where most parameters I midi learn are center so double click to 64 makes a lot of sense
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Old 12-20-2019, 03:43 AM   #180
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Sorry my short reply earlier, I've been pretty engrossed in trying to work out a new project and my brain wont stop moving hahaha

Similar to what other people are saying it would be neat if we could change the CC parameter default to a particular type for all lanes, I think it would then solve the issue of not being able to maybe draw the desired envelope type.
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Old 06-04-2020, 06:01 AM   #181
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These useful functions are available for take/track envelopes, but not yet for CC envelopes:

* "Reduce number of points" dialog: for simplifying curves with excessive numbers of CCs, or smoothing choppily recorded curves.

* Reascript API to get envelope value at specific tick position.


Available for CCs but not for take/track envelopes:

* Easy deletion of multiple CCs with a single Alt+drag swipe. For take/track envelopes, the "Delete envelope point" mouse modifier is in the Envelope point: left *drag* context, but it actually only deletes a single point.
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Old 06-04-2020, 06:44 AM   #182
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Completely agree with Julian.
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Old 06-04-2020, 09:43 AM   #183
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* "Reduce number of points" dialog: for simplifying curves with excessive numbers of CCs, or smoothing choppily recorded curves.
There IS an option to do reduction while drawing, though. Which is working pretty great in fact...
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Old 06-04-2020, 10:22 AM   #184
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There IS an option to do reduction while drawing, though. Which is working pretty great in fact...
That option is unfortunately not the same thing as the "Reduce number of points" dialog.
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Old 06-04-2020, 10:41 AM   #185
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Sure, I guess. It works great in practice anyways, as far as I can say from my usage.
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Old 06-04-2020, 07:48 PM   #186
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That option is unfortunately not the same thing as the "Reduce number of points" dialog.
I'm sure you're right as usual Julian, but what's the difference? What exactly are you getting at?

Quote:
There IS an option to do reduction while drawing, though. Which is working pretty great in fact...
Thanks ED I didn't know that was thee, and it does seem to work pretty well.
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Old 06-05-2020, 12:33 AM   #187
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The "Reduce CC events while drawing" option only works *while* drawing new curves, and only applies if you are using square or linear shapes.

The "Reduce number of points" action pops up a dialog with a slider with which you can reduce the number of CCs in *existing* curves, for example curves in older, pre-v6 project that were drawn with thousands of closely spaced CCs, in order to replace them with only a few Bézier curves.

The "Reduce number of points" dialog is pretty clever in recognizing the most important envelope points, for example at the top and bottom nodes of an LFO, so that the the resulting curve with only a few key points is close to the original.
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Old 06-05-2020, 10:39 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
The "Reduce CC events while drawing" option only works *while* drawing new curves, and only applies if you are using square or linear shapes.

The "Reduce number of points" action pops up a dialog with a slider with which you can reduce the number of CCs in *existing* curves, for example curves in older, pre-v6 project that were drawn with thousands of closely spaced CCs, in order to replace them with only a few Bézier curves.

The "Reduce number of points" dialog is pretty clever in recognizing the most important envelope points, for example at the top and bottom nodes of an LFO, so that the the resulting curve with only a few key points is close to the original.
Okay, thanks Julian, I think I get your point (no pun intended ).

I've often wondered about the way it works now, with the single points followed by the curves, does the number of
CC eventss in between the points depend on "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes", I assume it does?
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Old 06-05-2020, 10:59 AM   #189
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Quote:
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I've often wondered about the way it works now, with the single points followed by the curves, does the number of
CC eventss in between the points depend on "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes", I assume it does?
It actually depends on another setting: The default resolution can be set in
* Preferences > Media > MIDI > CC segment interpolation resolution for new MIDI items,

and the resolution for individual items can be set in each item's
* Properties > Take media source > Properties > CC envelope interpolation resolution.

Before we got CC envelopes, I used a high "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes", in order to get smoother curves, but now it isn't necessary any more, so I've lowered it to 8 or even just 4.
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Old 06-05-2020, 11:01 AM   #190
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Is it possible to improve SWS/BR: Convert selected envelope's curve in time selection to CC events in last clicked CC lane in last active MIDI editor" ?

Those actions works only on the active items. When we are lots of MIDI items, it can be very fastidious...

It would be great if this action will work with all MIDI items at once!
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Old 06-05-2020, 02:14 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
It actually depends on another setting: The default resolution can be set in
* Preferences > Media > MIDI > CC segment interpolation resolution for new MIDI items,

and the resolution for individual items can be set in each item's
* Properties > Take media source > Properties > CC envelope interpolation resolution.
Wow, I didn't know about those settings. May I ask what numbers you are generally using in these settings?

Also do these settings override my "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes"?

Quote:
Before we got CC envelopes, I used a high "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes", in order to get smoother curves, but now it isn't necessary any more, so I've lowered it to 8 or even just 4.
I'm like you, I've got my "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes" set to 512. I used to draw all
my CCs in by hand, but I'm doing that less now when working with these CC curves.
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Old Yesterday, 06:34 PM   #192
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Also do these settings override my "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes"?
No, these settings refer to different CCs:

* "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes" is the density of CCs that you draw and see onscreen (when snap is disabled),

* "CC segment interpolation resolution" is the density of invisible CCs that REAPER interpolates (during playback) in-between those CCs that you drew onscreen.

(As is typical of REAPER, terminology is inconsistent: resolution vs density, segment vs envelope.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Wow, I didn't know about those settings. May I ask what numbers you are generally using in these settings?
REAPER's default value for interpolation resolution is 32 PPQ. This gives you 64 updates per second at 120bpm, which is plenty enough. However, if you are composing a Largo piece at 30bpm, you only get 16 updates per second, which I worry might be audible. I therefore prefer to use a higher interpolation resolution of 64 PPQ. (I doubt that there is any advantage to using values any higher than 64, and higher values might even cause higher CPU usage, but perhaps other users would like to chime in with their findings.)

For drawing density, I use a low value of 8 (and usually snap is enabled, so effective drawing density is usually lower than 8). Higher drawing density is not necessary unless you are drawing extremely intricate, fast-changing envelopes. The lower the number of onscreen CCs (in all editable takes together), the faster my CC editing scripts run, so I prefer to keep the number of CCs as low as possible.
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Old Yesterday, 09:48 PM   #193
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Quote:
(As is typical of REAPER, terminology is inconsistent: resolution vs density, segment vs envelope.)
Yeah, and thank you Julian, I would never have known this without your help.
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