Old 01-16-2013, 06:44 AM   #1
IXix
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: mcr:uk
Posts: 3,889
Default MIDI item timebase needs tweaking

With MIDI high on the 4.33 agenda, I feel justified in making a bit of noise about this...

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...26#post1105926

It's illogical that MIDI events in an item with timebase Time should align to the project tempo. The obvious solution is for the source properties option to ignore project tempo to be set automatically when the item timebase is changed to Time and cleared when set to Beats.

I think I'm not alone in this opinion.
IXix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 06:57 AM   #2
SpecialRich
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bath, UK
Posts: 215
Default

yup, +1
SpecialRich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 01:18 PM   #3
musicbynumbers
Human being with feelings
 
musicbynumbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
Default

This plus tracks that are created using the new instrument option should automatically switch to beats timebase if the project is set to default of time. so that it's one less step in the way since most people probably want midi tracks to change with the tempo rather than lock to samples.
musicbynumbers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 02:40 PM   #4
nofish
Human being with feelings
 
nofish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
Default

+1

but - I think the fix is not quite as easy as IXiX suggests.

What should happen for example if you've set MIDI items to let's call it 'true time' for now (having the 'ignore project tempo' set), then you add some tempo changes within these items and switch back to Timebase: Beats.

The items would have to adapt to the tempo changes (recalculated) otherwise your project goes whack me thinks.
nofish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 02:26 AM   #5
IXix
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: mcr:uk
Posts: 3,889
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
What should happen for example if you've set MIDI items to let's call it 'true time' for now (having the 'ignore project tempo' set), then you add some tempo changes within these items and switch back to Timebase: Beats.

The items would have to adapt to the tempo changes (recalculated) otherwise your project goes whack me thinks.
Good point. I guess event positions would need to be converted to new bars/beats values based on their absolute position when switching from Time to Beats.
IXix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2013, 08:02 AM   #6
Guido
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 674
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IXix View Post
With MIDI high on the 4.33 agenda, I feel justified in making a bit of noise about this...

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...26#post1105926

It's illogical that MIDI events in an item with timebase Time should align to the project tempo. The obvious solution is for the source properties option to ignore project tempo to be set automatically when the item timebase is changed to Time and cleared when set to Beats.

I think I'm not alone in this opinion.
No, You are not alone! Totaly illogical..and frankly, it shouldnt matter how "hard" it is. Just my opinion tho^^

Along with midi latency tied to the audio driver latency in Reaper {not in other daws} a big "suckaroo" on Reapers midi resume..also mho.

Guido
Guido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 01:50 AM   #7
IXix
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: mcr:uk
Posts: 3,889
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IXix View Post
The obvious solution is for the source properties option to ignore project tempo to be set automatically when the item timebase is changed to Time and cleared when set to Beats.
Thinking about this some more, that's not right. I think MIDI items should behave exactly the same as audio items where timebase is concerned. This might be a seem a bit weird for Beats (position only) but I think consistency trumps weirdness.

The "Ignore project tempo" option becomes redundant. It's not enough for MIDI source to have its own tempo, it needs its own grid in order to properly cope with tempo and time sig changes. A MIDI item should retain all the tempo and time signature changes that were present when it was created. If I copy or move an item, its internal grid should copy the project grid at the item's current location. Whether the MIDI events follow the project grid or the internal grid would be dictated by the item timebase:
  • Time: MIDI events use source grid
  • Beats (position only): MIDI events use source grid
  • Beats (position, length, rate): MIDI events follow project grid

The user would need to be able to edit the source grid in the midi editor.

I understand that this is a lot of work for the devs but I can't see any other way to have fully functional MIDI. Each MIDI item needs to be a self-contained entity.

I think this system provides enough flexibility for any scenario. The default timebase for new MIDI items should default to "Beats (position, length, rate)" with an option on the "Media item defaults" tab to allow the user to specify their preference.

It's taken me a long time to compose this post so please implement it straight away. Thankyou
IXix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 04:56 AM   #8
IXix
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: mcr:uk
Posts: 3,889
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IXix View Post
If I copy or move an item, its internal grid should copy the project grid at the item's current location.
I should have said "its internal grid should copy the project grid at the item's current location, if the item is using the project grid"
IXix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 09:40 AM   #9
nofish
Human being with feelings
 
nofish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
Default

That's were I was heading with my above post (more or less, haven't thought this whole thing through till the end).
Thanks for putting some in depth thought in it.
nofish is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.