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Old 06-23-2019, 01:15 PM   #1
Bombs'n'Away
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Default Change single tempo marker without moving following markers - possible?

Hi all,

I've got a multitrack project with four songs on it (= four regions).
Within each region, several bpm and timing changes take place as indicated by markers. I have set those up when planning the songs, then recorded all instruments but now comes vocal delay time:

The vocal delay is quite aggressive and shall follow the host timing most of the time. However, on several passages that feature 3/4 beats it plain does not fit at all. So I want to change those few markers to another beat count WITHOUT the following markers to move back or forth. Or rather, without the grid to expand or tighten. When for instance in song #1's first chorus I change to 4/4 beat count, I would have to readjust all following 36 or so tempo markers manually in order for the vocal delay to match the other audio.

Any suggestions on this one?
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Old 06-23-2019, 03:01 PM   #2
Philbo King
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Look into stretch markers
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Old 06-23-2019, 04:00 PM   #3
jrk
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Don't muck about w/ yr tempo markers. Change the delay where it doesn't fit.
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Old 06-24-2019, 01:08 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
Look into stretch markers
Those do exactly what is undesired here: They stretch audio. All audio is recorded and done. Vocal delay is not printed yet. It shall follow the grid apart from a couple of short passages, where it shall have another timing than the snare drum.

@jrk: Okay, so you mean I should automate the delay to not tempo sync on those passages and give it another measure? Problem is, I have two interdependent delays set up. One with 1/4 notes left and 1/8 notes right and a second one with 1/2 on both channels. Since I tweak the knobs by little increments about several dozens of times until I like the vibe of the delay, automating would assumedly take me hours. Or am missing something?

Easiest way I can think of is change a couple of markers to another count but keep all following markers locked at where they are. They dont serve any purpose anymore but guiding the vocal delay. Is this possible?
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Old 06-24-2019, 01:33 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bombs'n'Away View Post
@jrk: Okay, so you mean I should automate the delay to not tempo sync on those passages and give it another measure? Problem is, I have two interdependent delays set up. One with 1/4 notes left and 1/8 notes right and a second one with 1/2 on both channels. Since I tweak the knobs by little increments about several dozens of times until I like the vibe of the delay, automating would assumedly take me hours. Or am missing something?
If it was me - and I was happy with my delays for most of the piece - I'd leave them the way they are, except on the sections that don't fit. For those I'd set up another fx track (with my delays) and get those right - this wouldn't take hours. Then I'd simply automate the levels of my fx tracks, so that they come up in the right places.
(or mutes, or the sends, or whatever combination sounds best).

How hard is it to divide 60000/bpm ?

If you don't want to do this, I suspect your other option might be to split / join / add / change measures to get some distribution of beats that (a) suits your way of working with delays and (b) leaves succeeding markers where they were.

4x(3/4) = 3x(4/4) ... 4/4 = (3/4) + (1/4) and so on...
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Last edited by jrk; 06-24-2019 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 06-24-2019, 12:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk View Post
If it was me - and I was happy with my delays for most of the piece - I'd leave them the way they are, except on the sections that don't fit. For those I'd set up another fx track (with my delays) and get those right - this wouldn't take hours. Then I'd simply automate the levels of my fx tracks, so that they come up in the right places.
(or mutes, or the sends, or whatever combination sounds best).
Okay, that's going to be the workaround then. Thanks for your suggestion. I spent quite a while with trying to automate the Delays and found out that when automating the Sync button from true to false, theres no change in behaviour of the time buttons on my particular delay I'm using. So I cannot go from 1/2 beat to 120 milliseconds, for instance, by drawing automation. So i gotta put up additional FX tracks only for those sections.

Still, would be a cool function to be able to change single markers without affecting the following grid and marker positions. On huge arrangements I'm sure people would want go back and change some part by couple of BPMs and then - readjust all that follows manually? That's tough.
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Old 06-24-2019, 02:13 PM   #7
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I'm not quite sure that I understand what you are trying to do, but if you set the timebase of your project markers and tempo markers to "Time", you should be able to change tempos and time signatures without affecting following markers.

If your new time signature creates partial measures at the next timesig marker, you might have to set that timesig marker to allow partial measures.

(Remember that MIDI items use timebase=beats by default, and do not follow the default track or project timebase, so if you want to change the timebase of MIDI items, it must be done on item level.)

Quote:
3/4 beats ... change to 4/4 beat count
Do you want to change the timesig to 4/4 while keeping the same tempo (thereby lengthening each measure), or do you want to keep the same measure length and accelerating the tempo? If the latter, you can use the "Create measure from time selection" actions.

Last edited by juliansader; 06-26-2019 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
I'm not quite sure that I understand what you are trying to do, but if you set the timebase of your project markers and tempo markers to "Time", you should be able to change tempos and time signatures without affecting following markers.
Oh yes, that's exactly what I wanted. I set it to BEAT like two years ago because I thought TIME was solely responsible for the audio to stretch. I think I afterwards found out that this was another option but never set back to TIME consequently.
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