Drums: Mixing Techniques Used?

[Bevosss]

Originally Posted by cAPSLOCK

Drum replacement/augmentation is a fairly easy and common thing... There are tools, of course, here in reaper to do it... There is also Drumagog and the one I use Aptrigga. http://apulsoft.ch/aptrigga/index.php

That's interesting Caps, I saw Fluffy say he was using Aptrigga as well. Could you elaborate why you prefer it over Drumagog?

[pipelineaudio]

Here's mine

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/14242/metal-what.RPP

[cAPSLOCK]

Originally Posted by Bevosss

That's interesting Caps, I saw Fluffy say he was using Aptrigga as well. Could you elaborate why you prefer it over Drumagog?

I don't "prefer it over" exactly. It was just at the time I found it to be a great deal. (This was when 35E was about 35$ unlike now).

I bought it as a stop gap for drumagog... but after using it... well it's good enough for me.

The only thing I miss is the random pool of Drumagog, which is a great idea. But in practice, 9 velocity layers mixed with the live snare is really fine with a good sample.

I am enjoying these mixes...

Your, Pipe.. msut be routed strangely for me as it's quiet.. but I figure it out. Oh and how did you make the wave views zoom like that... this is a feature I don't know how to do.

[pipelineaudio]

I right clicked them and made them mono

[todd24]

Originally Posted by mschuster

yea, i had trouble "quieting" the hi-hat when recording. i tried a few different OH combinations - but i've come to accept that i REALLy whack the hi-hat.. lol..

the other issue - and this may be the more important one - is that the room i'm recording in has a fairly low ceiling - and well - it's a room in my house - and not a studio treated for acoustic damping/high ceilings/wood floor/etc...

the snare has been an issue. this was my 3rd or 4th attempt at recording drums live. when people say the drumkit is the hardest instrument to record - they ain't kidding. i have a 57 on it - and tried several different mic'ing positions - all w/ the field nulling the hat - but it always sounds "flat". most likely the 'cheap' snare. i'm finding the quality of the kit really makes a difference, like a guitar/bass.

i intentionally didn't include a limiter or any FXs to keep it raw.

thanks.
m

I have had trouble with hats being to loud as well. I have found the only solution is to use quiter hats, and a louder snare. No mic positioning can fix it when the hat is in EVERY mic louder than the intended source.

Teaching drummers to hit diferantly is a losing battle.

[mschuster]

Originally Posted by Mike1

Mark, very unusual sound of snare and toms. Strange...

LOL... hmm, well.. what can i say? Michael, i do like what you're doing with the toms.

Originally Posted by anticlick

Did you also tried a Mid-Side configuration?

no, never heard of that one. i did read the Wiki page though. unusual. btw - thanks for the c-superstereo plug. i never cease to be amazed at the really cool plugs out there, most free. unfortunately, i'm still confused. i did load up the plug, solo'd the OHs (panned hard L/R) and then tried to deciper what i was seeing. unk! the only real doc i could find on the plug was delivered from the author (who, subsequently appears to have pulled these plugs). he talks about the "shape" of what's drawn. a filled oval appears to be a good, natural stereo image - where as an oval that's "wider" (or circle) is more out of phase. the PHASE DIFFERENCE at the bottom did show ~90 (degrees?). does that mean 90 degrees out of phase? i did 'mono' and am not sure what i should be listening for specifically. fundamentally - i would just like to a) understand what the problem is and then b) determine how to fix it. i'm hoping it's as easy as flipping one of the OH phase buttons. any help would be appreciated. thanks.

boy - talk about a wealth of information in these RPP files. it's interesting to see how everyone approaches drums, techniques, eq, plugs, etc. no wonder no two drumkits sound alike. it also helps to cement some assumptions i've had about how people do things (as well as learn completely new ones). for example - i always wonder how people pan OH's. Some say hard L/R, while others say that's not true in a typical stage setting. thoughts?

Pipe - thanks for reminding me about the 50hz kick plug and Loser's compciter. both plugs i've forgotten about. i actually tried a sidechain off my kick to MDA's subsynth plug last night and got some really good results. made a huge difference by beefing up and "rounding" the kick.

finally - i'm having trouble with coming up with any good settings for my Dominion Signal Modelling plug. if someone else has this plug - could you possibly offer some 'presets' or common settings and describe in what situation you use it and what for?

thanks again everyone for your contributions. i highly encourage anybody else who's just reading through this thread to download a few of these RPP files and take a peek. a ton of good info!

mark

[Mike1]

Mark, you have exclusive drums. But I think, is impossible to leave from classics.



It works with any microphones (I tested), and it has a sound without plug-ins

You can listen it in the Reaper:
http://www.telefunkenusa.com/literat...ashvilleDemos/

[antiClick]

Originally Posted by mschuster

no, never heard of that one. i did read the Wiki page though. unusual. btw - thanks for the c-superstereo plug. i never cease to be amazed at the really cool plugs out there, most free. unfortunately, i'm still confused. i did load up the plug, solo'd the OHs (panned hard L/R) and then tried to deciper what i was seeing. unk! the only real doc i could find on the plug was delivered from the author (who, subsequently appears to have pulled these plugs). he talks about the "shape" of what's drawn. a filled oval appears to be a good, natural stereo image - where as an oval that's "wider" (or circle) is more out of phase. the PHASE DIFFERENCE at the bottom did show ~90 (degrees?). does that mean 90 degrees out of phase? i did 'mono' and am not sure what i should be listening for specifically. fundamentally - i would just like to a) understand what the problem is and then b) determine how to fix it. i'm hoping it's as easy as flipping one of the OH phase buttons. any help would be appreciated. thanks.

Hi!
The phase should be moving at about 45º.
Do the test with a comercial song, so then press the mono button and you won't hear a dramatic change. Try the same with the overheads and you'll hear that some parts of the drum changes dramatically.

The biggest problem is when the phase is at 90, because flipping L or R 180º won't solve anything (90+180=270=90). The only way to fix it is next time change mic placement.


cheers
hope it helped

PS: try Mike1's non coincident approach, or a the MS if you have an eight-figure microphone.

[mschuster]

Originally Posted by antiClick

Hi!
The phase should be moving at about 45º.
Do the test with a comercial song, so then press the mono button and you won't hear a dramatic change. Try the same with the overheads and you'll hear that some parts of the drum changes dramatically.

The biggest problem is when the phase is at 90, because flipping L or R 180º won't solve anything (90+180=270=90). The only way to fix it is next time change mic placement.

thanks for that explanation.

mark

[frott]

There is a handy anti-phase procedure for micing drums called the recorderman/glyn johns method. It's quick and easy to set up and makes an amazingly fat drum sound with little effort.

This allows you to then close mic your snare and bassdrum and mix it in to taste.



Step 1:
take three drumsticks and put them straight up from the center of your snare drum top. Place OH1 here, pointed at the snare drum.

Step 2a: use a length of rope or cable and hold one end between bass drum beater and the drum.

Step 2b: bring that up to the mic, pinch and hold it there

Step 2c: then bring it down to the center of the snare and hold it there.

You should be pinning it down with your foot, pinching it up above your snare and down on your snare making a triangle.

Step 3: now while holding all that, move the triangle over to behind your drummers right shoulder. Point this mic at the snare as well.


Viola, in a few minutes you now have a perfectly in phase everything! If your snare is hot enough or you're going for more punch in your bass drum, aim the mics at the bass drum. The important thing is that the OHs are the same distance away from the parts that will be centered. You also get an amazingly nice, natural spread / image of the rest of the kit without the cymbals being overwhelming.

[mschuster]

Originally Posted by frott

There is a handy anti-phase procedure for micing drums called the recorderman/glyn johns method. It's quick and easy to set up and makes an amazingly fat drum sound with little effort.

This allows you to then close mic your snare and bassdrum and mix it in to taste.



Step 1:
take three drumsticks and put them straight up from the center of your snare drum top. Place OH1 here, pointed at the snare drum.

Step 2a: use a length of rope or cable and hold one end between bass drum beater and the drum.

Step 2b: bring that up to the mic, pinch and hold it there

Step 2c: then bring it down to the center of the snare and hold it there.

You should be pinning it down with your foot, pinching it up above your snare and down on your snare making a triangle.

Step 3: now while holding all that, move the triangle over to behind your drummers right shoulder. Point this mic at the snare as well.


Viola, in a few minutes you now have a perfectly in phase everything! If your snare is hot enough or you're going for more punch in your bass drum, aim the mics at the bass drum. The important thing is that the OHs are the same distance away from the parts that will be centered. You also get an amazingly nice, natural spread / image of the rest of the kit without the cymbals being overwhelming.

thanks - i have actually heard about that - and there's a really good video demostrating exactly what you mention above on youtube. but, for the life of me can't find it this morning. however, did find a lot of other really cool drum micing vids over there, this being one: https://youtube.com/watch?v=KiFkMZSYORY

i tried it - like the XY - and didn't find it as pleasing as the spaced pair. i'll just have to work harder on getting the spaced pair correct next time around. in other words - do the phase tests AT THE TIME OF recording..

[likenokevin]

Recorderman video

https://youtube.com/watch?v=IiFOD1EeKhQ