04-16-2019, 01:17 PM | #241 | |
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This is the line I have in REAPER for auto-starting JACK. /usr/bin/jackd -P80 -dalsa -dhw:M2496 -r44100 -p64 -n2 -Xseq |
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04-16-2019, 01:37 PM | #242 | |
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Like you, I'm wondering if there might be a high latency plugin somewhere else in the chain that makes it appear as though there is a disconnect between moving a parameter and hearing the effect from it. I have seen something like this with midi drums, where a high latency plugin (usually a convolution reverb) later in the chain introduces delay such that hitting a midi drum and hearing it are almost seconds apart. |
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04-16-2019, 01:41 PM | #243 |
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I think 200ms is noticeable, 50 much less so.
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04-16-2019, 01:52 PM | #244 |
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If he's testing using a MIDI track with VSTi into his plugins, that would make sense; it's this setting in preferences -> audio -> buffering:
Disable media buffering for tracks with open MIDI editors I have that checked (disabling the media buffering). |
04-16-2019, 01:57 PM | #245 |
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And by noticable, do you mean it introduces lag?
Is the issue that you move a control right now this second, but 200ms of future sound was already rendered before you moved the control? Does the latency of the plugin you are using have any bearing on what that render ahead buffer ultimately feels like? Reason I ask that is it does not feel like there is a 200ms delay from the time I move a control until I hear the effect of doing it. The wah-wah effect I was doing earlier by sweeping the freq at full Q didn't feel laggy, and I'm pretty sure 200ms delay would have felt sloppy to me and not kept time to the music I was sweeping the freq control along with. |
04-16-2019, 02:01 PM | #246 |
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I just checked mine and I also have that item checked.
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04-16-2019, 02:07 PM | #247 |
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Yes I mean I hear the change of a plugin parameter later than I'd like to.
Add reaeq to a track and move a highpass filter up an down. Try at 1000ms, 200ms & 50ms. I think it's hard not to notice it On the other hand anticipative fx is great because it will allow you to run much bigger mixes at low latency settings. It does not apply when you are live monitoring a rec armed track.
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04-16-2019, 02:36 PM | #248 | |
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By clicking back and forth the minimum and maximum ends of the freq control on ReaEQ while set to highpass, at 200ms I would lose the first downbeat clicking back and forth in time with the music, but at 50ms the downbeat was still there, but clipped. Which poses the million dollar question . . . Does running only 50ms of anticipative buffer use more CPU than a default of 200ms? If they both use the same amount of CPU I'll switch to 50ms, but if there is a CPU hit for a smaller buffer I'll keep things the way they are now. |
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04-16-2019, 03:58 PM | #249 |
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Just to be clear, I was seeing this not just with my plug-ins but with e.g. the built in reaper plugs too - and its not something I've seen happen in any other host application, so I've no reason to think there is anything specific to my plug-ins.
I think the issue is that I was running slightly larger buffer settings than most here seem to (I seldom need to drop the buffer size below 256 normally - I certainly wouldn't need to go to 64 in normal usage... by the time we're talking about 64 or less you could just move closer to the speakers and save the extra CPU usage... ) This compounded by the fact that I'm most likely very fussy about this, and / because, I know that my plug-ins are designed to be very responsive - and not to add any audio latency. Adjusting the read ahead restored things to what I would normally expect, however I should perhaps have qualified my original post with "if you experience latency when adjusting plug-in controls..." Maybe there's a compromise - to have a slightly lower setting as the default e.g. 100ms? (since the setting is not intuitive or particularly discoverable, and at present likely to manifest to users as 'this plug-in isn't as good as I expected' rather than 'perhaps I need to look at the read ahead buffer settings') |
04-16-2019, 04:18 PM | #250 |
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If anything 50ms would use slightly less CPU and memory, but it would make underruns (say, from a plug-in taking more than 50ms to process a buffer) more likely. If things work well at 50ms for your uses, then you should be good. If you notice more audio underruns then you might need to increase that value slightly.
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04-16-2019, 04:34 PM | #251 | |
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While I don't really use virtual amps, I do always monitor through REAPER and frequently do it through 3 to 5 VST plugins. 64 samples latency is how I run all the time, and only on the most complex of projects do I ever have to increase to 128 during the final mixing and mastering phases. Now that I'm running almost all native Linux plugins, I'm not taxing my CPU at all. My most recent project in REAPER has 28 tracks with 49 FX (47 of which are OverTone DSP plugins) and playing it at 64 samples latency shows me I'm only using 24.96% of my CPU's total capacity. |
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04-16-2019, 05:57 PM | #252 |
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I can run with a very modest setup (the one in my signature) and achieve 7 ms round trip latency at 44.1 KHz while keeping the system stable up to the highest CPU load, using a stock kernel with stock settings (no tweaks to the OS at all). Linux has made this easier for me than Windows. For the most part when people are using relatively newer computers and newer distros, it seems this is the norm.
You might as well set your audio driver buffers (block size, number of blocks) lower especially if your system can handle it. Lowering your latency so that mixing is responsive is just one of those things you do with a DAW. You will notice an improvement even regarding the responsiveness of the mixer faders. |
04-16-2019, 06:13 PM | #253 |
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Yeah, 30ms is too much, but 10-15ms (256 @ 48k typically) is pretty easy to get used to (like being 10-15' from your guitar amp...).
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04-16-2019, 06:53 PM | #254 | |
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The highest I ever use in REAPER is 128 which gets me 2.9/5.8ms. I can run like that all day long with the fattest projects and never break a sweat. In Windows I ran 64 samples in ASIO and never ever changed it for any reason, because I didn't need to. In Linux using all native Linux plugins, I can achieve the same thing, but if I add a lot of bridged Windows plugins, I may have to up it to 128 to keep artifacts from creeping into the audio playback. |
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04-17-2019, 12:59 AM | #255 |
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Hey folks, got some minor workflow issues as Reaper seems to behave a little differently from Windows in some respects:
- in the track FX window, double clicking into the plugin list does nothing (should open up the FX browser) - I can’t correctly map some shortcuts (using a German keyboard layout), for example trying to map Ctrl+Alt+^ gives me Ctrl+Alt+▯ and the shortcut does nothing when pressed - I can’t open the Media Explorer via Ctrl+Alt+X, stuff like Ctrl+Alt+V for the Navigator works though - When I open the mixer, the main window is still focused. Indirectly this is also a problem with the track FX window: When I open that, Reaper opens the browser (when there are no effects no the track), but closing the browser with ESC now leaves me with the main windows focused (instead of the track FX window). This makes it impossible to close both windows via pressing ESC two times. - For some reason, pressing ESC in the main window tries to close Reaper. - I can’t edit the track volume via clicking on the volume field on a track in the TCP and MCP (have to confirm that on my windows machine…) |
04-17-2019, 04:01 AM | #256 | ||
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Personally the 200ms seems too much, I find it makes plugins seem sluggish to react, ymmw and all that.. Quote:
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04-17-2019, 04:04 AM | #257 | |
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04-17-2019, 04:12 AM | #258 | |
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The good thing is that anticipative fx allows you to lower the buffer sizes for live monitoring while still allowing fx chains (on played back material) that would normally cause dropouts with such small buffers.
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04-17-2019, 07:40 AM | #259 | |
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Just playing a beat to a song it isn't so noticeable but with tight double stroke rolls it feels a lot tighter playing at 64 samples. I can live with more latency playing guitar or bass than drums. |
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04-17-2019, 09:50 AM | #260 |
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I'd imagine that drummers would have the biggest gripes with latency, except for maybe singers who might complain about the comb filtering occurring in the head when the vocal sound inside the head mixes with the delayed sound from the monitoring. After all a drummer normally has his ears much closer to his instrument than an electric guitarist or bass player.
On the bass I'm quite cool with some latency, a bass note blooms so it's a bit hard to say exactly when it starts. At higher latency it just gives me a feeling of playing on a big stage.
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04-17-2019, 11:08 AM | #261 |
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When I record bass I use a hardware based Digitech bass amp modeling pedal, and playing it though REAPER at 128 feels tight enough to record.
As for OverTone DSP's plugins and REAPER, the only issue I have is not being able to put multiple 500 series plugs side by side because they have a shaded background on the sides which makes their container in REAPER as wide as it is tall, even though the plugin UI only needs 1/3 of that space horizontally. This plugin opens in a narrow container in REAPER. Last edited by Glennbo; 06-04-2019 at 01:34 PM. |
04-18-2019, 05:52 AM | #262 | |
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On a general point about Reaper and plug-in windows, I always get messed up with it somehow e.g. Configure to open plug-ins in their own window (which I prefer because it means I don't get reaper's 'host' window / extra menus etc). Close the plugin and it re-embeds it in the reaper window, instead of closing it. So now I'm back with the opposite of what I configured. Double click the plugin to separate it from the reaper window again, and I'm left with the empty reaper window taking up space where the plugin used to be. If there is anyway to improve this it would be much appreciated. Last edited by mike@overtonedsp; 04-18-2019 at 05:59 AM. |
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04-18-2019, 06:30 AM | #263 |
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That would be very cool if the 500 series plugins could live in narrow containers like the K-Meter plugin. I have instances of Dyn500 and EQ500 on each of my four acoustic drum tracks, and it would let me get them all side by side while tweaking the drums.
That said, it is only aesthetic, and I really love how quickly I can dial up great sounds with your plugins. As for dealing with any plugins in REAPER, I prefer to click an effect in the FX bin, which brings up the effect in it's own window, like the two images I posted earlier. Click the effect a second time in the FX bin and it toggles the effect back to hidden. I never use any other way of bringing FX up on screen to make changes. Note: You have to have the mixer view up to see the FX bins, and the FX bins themselves need to be enabled by right clicking the master fader and ticking the show FX bins option. Last edited by Glennbo; 04-18-2019 at 06:37 AM. |
04-18-2019, 10:37 AM | #264 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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04-18-2019, 01:10 PM | #265 |
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Very cool Mike. Will the versions you are experimenting with show up as "Latest Versions" on the download page at OverTone, or will they be only available to a beta group initially?
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04-19-2019, 12:55 AM | #266 | |
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Quote:
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04-19-2019, 12:43 PM | #267 |
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Thanks. I'll just check your download page every once in a while.
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04-24-2019, 02:52 PM | #268 |
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Reaper crashes when loading in the U-he Repro 5 or Repro 1 as VST3 version. With Diva it is working. Bug is reproducible.
In the terminal I get a seg fault error: Code:
./reaper jack: created client jack: setting TIME_CRITICAL = 74 jack: activated client setNumInputs ( 0 ); setNumOutputs ( 2 ); allocateArrangement ( &plugInput, 2 ); allocateArrangement ( &plugOutput, 2 ); setNumInputs ( 0 ); setNumOutputs ( 2 ); allocateArrangement ( &plugInput, 2 ); allocateArrangement ( &plugOutput, 2 ); HostPlaying changed: inQuarter: 8.000000, lastQuarter 8.000000 currentQuarter 11.498000 HostPlaying changed: inQuarter: 8.000000, lastQuarter 8.000000 currentQuarter 11.432000 HostPlaying changed: inQuarter: 8.000000, lastQuarter 8.000000 currentQuarter 10.948000 Speicherzugriffsfehler marco@fox:~/opt/REAPER$ Debian 9, XFCE, Compton compositor, Reaper 5.974
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04-27-2019, 03:30 PM | #269 |
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Possible bug: "Thread priority" setting has no effect
Is changing the setting "thread priority" supposed to change the priority of the worker threads spawned when load a VST? I tested with u-he Hive (u-he VSTs in general seem to result in worker threads with realtime prio set). But no matter the setting here the asociated worker threads have the highest user allowed realtime priority (set within "/etc/security/limits.d/99-realtime-privileges.conf"; changes are applied after logout/login cycle). Or can a VST force Reaper to use highest possible priority according to OS setting? Version: v5.974 Last edited by Westrabua; 04-27-2019 at 03:35 PM. Reason: Added version |
04-28-2019, 06:34 AM | #270 |
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That thread priority only affects reaper-created threads, not any VST-created threads. And it only does anything if the audio device is configured for realtime use (and the current user has permissions for those realtime priorities).
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04-28-2019, 07:55 AM | #271 | |
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- @realtime - rtprio 98 - @realtime - memlock unlimited When I start reaper and look at "ps -eLo rtprio,cls,pid,pri,nice,cmd | grep "FF" | sort -r", I get: Looking at the processes using "htop" (tree view), I see: Here I've tagged the reaper process and it's child processes/threads. After loading i.e. u-he Hive, I get the following: More child processes/threads (all those unmarked ones), which are of rtprio 98 regardless of the "thread priority" setting in Reaper: But if I understand you correctly then these threads labeled "reaper" are actually created by the VST and Reaper has no influence on their realtime priorities.
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04-28-2019, 01:34 PM | #272 |
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If you set htop to show thread names you might get more info (REAPER sets its own thread names, not sure if u-he does). In any case, u-he plugins setting their workers to the maximum priority is bad form IMO, as those threads could then interrupt the audio thread. If anything they should see what priority they are called in (when processing audio) and use a priority the same or slightly below that...
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04-29-2019, 10:38 AM | #273 |
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Using Tab key to name next track closes Reaper down
Hi,
Anyone have any problems with that? I tried several times to add couple of new tracks and name them by hitting TAB key to get to next track. Doesn't matter if I do this in TCP or MCP. Last time I started Reaper via terminal and got only: Code:
jack: created client jack: setting TIME_CRITICAL = 89 jack: activated client Segmentation fault
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04-29-2019, 10:43 AM | #274 |
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I'm not seeing that on either 5.97 or 5.975rc1 on Kubuntu 18.10. Made a new poject, made several tracks, double-clicked name of first, named, tab to next, named, etc.
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04-29-2019, 10:50 AM | #275 |
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Lucky you
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04-29-2019, 10:52 AM | #276 |
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Maybe try with a new config (i.e. fresh install) to see if it's a setting thing?
Sounds like it's a hard crash of reaper, which i'm sure is something the devs would like to fix. |
04-29-2019, 12:47 PM | #277 | |
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Thanks
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04-29-2019, 01:17 PM | #278 |
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If you still have the other config, it would be good to get to the bottom of what happened...
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04-29-2019, 11:15 PM | #279 |
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I saved everything. But it started again as soon I activated auto color tracks. If I turn it off everything is ok. I try to delete everything from auto color and start over one by one.
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04-29-2019, 11:34 PM | #280 |
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How does one activate auto color tracks? If you can point me there, I'll give it a shot over here.
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