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Old 12-24-2014, 10:56 AM   #1
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Default R5 New Video FX Discussion Thread

Hi All,

i see from the demo project results that a fair bit can be done to video with video FX,

upon opening these FX i see you have to be a Geak to do anything with them!

will video editing fx be more conventional any time soon?

by conventional i mean some sliders and a list of easy to understand plugins and slider names,

Just curious more than anything!

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Old 12-24-2014, 01:00 PM   #2
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they are pretty geeky at the moment but I'm sure it will get easier. :}

I'm hoping that we will get video crossfades in the same way we have audio ones at some point.

my other big hope is the ability to overlay videos with alpha channels over each other for creating game demos for the developers to see stuff early for game/sound design.
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Old 12-24-2014, 01:08 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
they are pretty geeky at the moment but I'm sure it will get easier. :}
way to geeky for someone of my level, but i can see from my reaper experience that being able to write scripts leads to a healthy community of useful fx (JS for example)


i hope when its stable they put a front end on it like the JS plugins have, (and automation free cross fades) then it would be useful to the likes of me with my Canon 600D & Lumex GH2


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Old 12-24-2014, 01:12 PM   #4
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it no work.

it was working for me in REAPER5 pre1 tho


edit: You need to open the video window for video processor to show anything. maybe a message in the blank space could tell the user this... or like a button "open video window now"
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Old 12-24-2014, 01:19 PM   #5
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from pressing F1 to get help (when video processor is focused) I read this: "On items pan envelope is param1, pitch is param2"

So I'm guessing that's for making it easy to do video crossfades by using item envelopes with item video processors. Another suggestion would be to simply have a built-in variable to represent item fade state. So you could set the item fades to link to some parameter, e.g. a video fade effect parameter. Edit: Wait, that would be for video's audio... maybe we just need extra envelopes that aren't immediately connected to anything. "Envelope 1, 2, 3, 4" Wait a minute, maybe items have envelopes for parameters already. I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING

Because we're working with video, it'd be nice to have some way to do an X/Y pad, for example, positioning text. Edit: Or possibly get mouse position in reference to video window
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Old 12-24-2014, 01:35 PM   #6
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Subz, have you seen the "Load preset..." button at the bottom of the video processors FX ? (I missed it first).

That's where us non-coding folks start I'd say.
There are some presets there already with meaningful names, these effects can then be controlled with envelopes. Not that much rocket science to get started with fooling around a little...
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Old 12-25-2014, 07:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Subz, have you seen the "Load preset..." button at the bottom of the video processors FX ?
Ahhhhhh,

thanks bro, will go play with it!!

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Old 12-27-2014, 06:15 PM   #8
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Been screwing around with the posted projects, nothing fancy, just changing presets and envelops, and this is fascinating. What might one do with this functionality? Where we could, my band would play, say, Hellraiser on the screen in the background of a Halloween show (or weirder stuff for no particular reason), and I could definitely see any number of possibilities for live video behind a band. But hey, instructional video type stuff? Whether or not these features would ever compete with something like Vegas (I'm guessing not but who knows, and I know next to nothing about that stuff anyway), seems like there are pretty wide possibilities. A friend sends me zoom type files to write songs long distance, and I might try cobbling together some of those just for fun.

Very interested in what potential you all see with this. Also, gotta say, dockable video is sweet.
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Old 12-29-2014, 08:24 AM   #9
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Does anyone know if it is possible to create punches and streamers? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShFEvnOKOio)

Right now Digital Performer is the only DAW with this feature but I guess it shouldn't be too difficult to do the same in Reaper, I just don't know how. It would be nice if the length and the color of the streamer were editable.
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Old 12-29-2014, 01:23 PM   #10
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This would be HUGELY improved if more parameter controls were included with the presets (as is the case with the pixelate preset).

For example, text/title overlay could have knobs to control size, x pos and y pos at the very least. This would make the feature much more user friendly.
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
This would be HUGELY improved if more parameter controls were included with the presets (as is the case with the pixelate preset).

For example, text/title overlay could have knobs to control size, x pos and y pos at the very least. This would make the feature much more user friendly.
Yeah, I've got a lot of improvements for the default presets (and more presets) coming.
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:39 PM   #12
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Nicholas and Justin - thanks for your work!

I was just wondering how could I import some original MTS videos or so?
Is there a way to tweak Reaper?
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Old 12-29-2014, 06:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Yeah, I've got a lot of improvements for the default presets (and more presets) coming.
Fantastic!
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:13 PM   #14
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kewl!

thanks for the info J!
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Old 12-29-2014, 08:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Yeah, I've got a lot of improvements for the default presets (and more presets) coming.
Another thought ... it would be nice if, rather like JS plug-ins, users at first saw only the parameter controls when they open the plugin, with an option to click on a Reveal/Edit Code button ...
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Old 12-30-2014, 07:27 AM   #16
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I think it's gonna be awesome for sequencing chris cunningham type stuff. My hdd gonne bad... and im on a pendrive on linux, so only can test the features one night, but it was so easy to sync the video with the audio and the bpms this way, nothing like premiere, so intuitive for an audio guy! i can wait for the new hard drive to start messing with this!

For the ones not knowing who chris cunningham is...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5waJUCuLOek

the bpms sincronized parts are mostly in the last half of the video... the music is aphex twin.
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Old 12-30-2014, 10:23 AM   #17
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how about: if media item is a video, show video images as the "reapeak" . This would be a big feature, but... if you're gonna add video stuff, you might as well do it right.
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Old 12-30-2014, 11:33 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiiscompos View Post
Does anyone know if it is possible to create punches and streamers? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShFEvnOKOio)
there's been a lot of discussion about video additions and improvements and this is about the first practical suggestion i've heard, other than fixes like frame rate support and such. this seems to me to fall under basic prep for audio work rather than turning reaper into a video program. i support that.

Quote:
how about: if media item is a video, show video images as the "reapeak" . This would be a big feature, but... if you're gonna add video stuff, you might as well do it right.
this sounds harder to do, creating thumbnails, but i do think would be very helpful if it doesn't become a programming time-suck for devs.

my basic view is that there is a division between where video functionality is simple and focused on prep of a project for audio work and more full video editing capability. i'm for project prep functionality and opposed to video editing functionality. i have video apps for that.

thanks,
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Old 12-30-2014, 12:05 PM   #19
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there's nothing wrong with having a video editor with audio editing functionality for video folks and audio editor with video functionality for audio folks. "i have a video editor for that" is as pointless as "i have an apple, I don't need a pear". Yeah? Well I like pears.
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Old 12-30-2014, 12:20 PM   #20
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except that apples and pears exist. reaper as a video editor does not and would require a lot of development time to be fully realized. there are other things to do first.
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Old 12-30-2014, 12:27 PM   #21
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I've never used video in R but I do want to play with the new stuff, so question...

What is the least invasive way to get basic video working so that I can try the new editing stuff? Do I - have to - install some other third party support or codecs or can I just go as is?
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Old 12-30-2014, 12:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
I've never used video in R but I do want to play with the new stuff, so question...

What is the least invasive way to get basic video working so that I can try the new editing stuff? Do I - have to - install some other third party support or codecs or can I just go as is?
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=82459
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Old 12-30-2014, 01:15 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
I've never used video in R but I do want to play with the new stuff, so question...

What is the least invasive way to get basic video working so that I can try the new editing stuff? Do I - have to - install some other third party support or codecs or can I just go as is?
I hadn't either, but you don't need to install anything to play around with the posted projects or Nicholas's projects in the video effects draft thread. The third party stuff comes in to play for using different file types and different exporting options.
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Old 12-30-2014, 01:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
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except that apples and pears exist. reaper as a video editor does not and would require a lot of development time to be fully realized. there are other things to do first.
true.
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Old 12-30-2014, 02:23 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
I've never used video in R but I do want to play with the new stuff, so question...

What is the least invasive way to get basic video working so that I can try the new editing stuff? Do I - have to - install some other third party support or codecs or can I just go as is?
In theory you don't need anything, but if using Windows, installing VLC codecs will likely lead to a happier life than using Direct Show decoder. Download here:
http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/vlc/last/
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Old 12-30-2014, 02:25 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Otto Tune View Post
I hadn't either, but you don't need to install anything to play around with the posted projects or Nicholas's projects in the video effects draft thread. The third party stuff comes in to play for using different file types and different exporting options.
The tutorial is a work in progress (like R5!). By the time REAPER 5 is released it will have undergone many changes and I expect that the video effects interface will be much more user friendly than it is right now.
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Old 12-30-2014, 03:16 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Yeah, I've got a lot of improvements for the default presets (and more presets) coming.

great Justin.... just what I wanted to hear... thanks muchly.
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Old 12-30-2014, 03:33 PM   #28
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except that apples and pears exist. reaper as a video editor does not and would require a lot of development time to be fully realized. there are other things to do first.
I thought the same but after after going through Nicholas s short tutorial and trying it out, I think it's pretty near usable and useful
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Old 12-30-2014, 03:46 PM   #29
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from justin's replies, sounds like there are a few things still in the works. i've no quarrel with that. in fact, the current direction of discussions regarding video seem much more in line with how i interpret reaper's development. that hasn't been the case until recently.

the general music-oriented thrust of reaper seems to possibly be converging with some video capabilities. that seems right to me. until now discussion has been more in the editorial realm, which i do have a quarrel with. as time moves inexorably forward, video and audio are merging in many cases. perhaps this is how reaper development is seen. i think that's a good thing. traditional video editing, though, not so much so.

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Old 12-30-2014, 06:11 PM   #30
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Not sure what everybody is seeing here that they think is so special, am i right in thinking that nobody has ever used a real video editor ?
I don't really want to be a downer about the video support, but it has very few features and the workflow is.....well lets leave it at Geeky to be kind, it was just an experiment done by Justin as per his blogs.

Am i seriously missing something or is everybody super excited about a bunch of effects that were popular about twenty years ago on the Amiga, any $40 video app has moved on much much further than this (Give me optical flow with click+alt drag ala audio and i might be interested, but i doubt Justin is even capable of quality optical flow stretching considering how long it has taken other companies to get good results, thats only one example)

Really looks like a struggle for features for V5, so it was added in to bolster the changelog, this will become a joke feature if advertised as a big V5 upgrade, this should have been a small 4.8 update if at all, anybody who has to pay for this update WONT be doing it for this poor video editing

Reaper has had all the video support it has needed for a long time now, editing and effects with scripts, erm no, not needed, just a coders experiment.

You can all jump on me now if you want, just being honest.
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Old 12-30-2014, 06:27 PM   #31
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All I'm going to say is that if reaper can do just a few video bits like crossfades and alpha channels I'd happily drop any other the "major 3" in favour of reaper.

Reaper's editing for me is far more streamlined than any of the others. I find them all very frustrating and "stuck".

It wouldn't take much to get reaper to a level where it can do what most of us might need to do with video from a musicians perspective.

Multimedia is a big part of quite a few musicians life's now and I'm happy we have these new tools to explore.

Justin is already said more goodies will come and Reaper is opening up more to allow user created add ons which frees up the devs for standard audio features to added to 5.

Also,by the end of 5 I'm sure video will only be a small part of the bigger picture
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Old 12-30-2014, 06:42 PM   #32
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I know Reaper is not going to be a full video editor, but it already exports and imports EDL files with videos better than some famous video editors. Very good, you can start a rough cut of videos export it to EDL format and finish it in Vegas. Automatic crossfades in video are very expected at least. I'm sure they will be implemented. Support for OFX plugins would be so awesome. http://openeffects.org/ That would really be great for a 5.0 release.

With the nicholas samples for the guide, I've found Reaper 5 has more problems decoding video formats than Reaper 4. Maybe it is just the way the priority for decoder has changed. But it is confusing. You can set a codec for certain file extensions like .avi for example. But it should be codec dependent. Like using directshow for an avi that has UTvideo codec format, but using VLC for an AVI that has xvid codec for example.
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Old 12-30-2014, 06:42 PM   #33
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while i've generally been opposed to bothering with video in reaper's development, i do think the fx capabilities described begin to be useful. the idea of being able to add streamers and punches directly in reaper could be a great tool for composers working with video.

i agree that reaper is far from anything i'd really call a video editor. i think some of this comes from audio users missing some of the nuance of video-world terminology. on the other hand, there was someone who posted about video sequencing which i do think gets at something useful to those working with audio who would branch into video. being able to approach video in a manner similar to midi audio could be very useful.

an example i'd cite is something i've always found difficult in video editors. that would be the idea of a progressive loop. most editors are set up for intuitive, rapid ability to cut by eye. audio editors like reaper have abilities for looping that video editors do not. progressive loops fall somewhere in between. they are not as free form as standard cutting and not as mechanical as straight looping. yes, the same material is cycled repeatedly, but it is altered with repeated iterations. reaper, with its action macro capabilities could be very useful for this kind of video element making.

at this point it's all speculation but, as i said earlier, this is the first turn towards the practical i've seen in the reaper video discussions.

edit:
one thing i'd add is that, as far as having a turgid conceptual framework for video goes, i'd look at some of the magix stuff. anything but high-end, i know, and i don't know about the newer video apps but the old one (it's been years since i even looked at it) caught my attention when i realized the tracks were content-agnostic. tracks were not segregated into video vs audio content as most editors are. any track could carry any content. really opens things up to think that way. reaper would be a perfect platform to continue that mode of working.

BabaG

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Old 12-30-2014, 07:02 PM   #34
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Progressive loops ?
I am guessing you are talking about seeding, very common in the video/film world, there is nothing generative in Reapers video support, so nothing can be seeded.

OFX
As i have already pointed out, anybody that is asking for this as a v5 feature is miss interpreting the word 'Open' in the name, this is not like VST, you can't create one OFX effect and it will work in any OFX app like VST, this is simply not how it works, most OFX are created for a specific OFX implementation in a specific application, for instance OFX plugins created for Vegas, will never work in Reaper even if they added OFX support (Sometimes they actually do by pure luck, but even those tend to be buggy as hell)
Open effects is actually one of the biggest jokes to developers in the video world, because they are far from open hahaha
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Old 12-30-2014, 07:10 PM   #35
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The problem that is obvious to anybody who does actual video work is this..

Right now a mediocre set of feature requests are being asked for for an already mediocre set of video features in Reaper, this is done in the name of "People who may want to get in to doing videos for their songs"
This is rapidly going to turn in to "Why doesn't it do X" when those people wanting to get in to doing videos for their songs, start to realise that their video work is actually terrible compared to matey joe 200 yards down his street
Or are we going to pretend now that the kind of person using Reaper or indeed any high end DAW is not a perfectionist or has the want to get better and better at their art/profession ?

Mediocre is mediocre, personally i think it is time to say "that's cool Justin, nice experiment, lets move on now back to DAWs"

This excuse of Reapers editing is more intuitive, well thats great and i agree, editing in Reaper is faster than any video editor, but wait, no mask, no color correctors, no...........this list could get ridiculous and proves my point.
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Old 12-30-2014, 07:12 PM   #36
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hmm. not familiar with the term seeding. seen it in regard to marketing, though.

progressive loops would be a 100 frame clip that repeats, each time advancing the start frame of the content by a given number of frames.

iteration 01 start frame 226
iteration 02 start frame 227
iteration 03 start frame 228
iteration 04 start frame 229
iteration 05 start frame 230
iteration 06 start frame 231
iteration 07 start frame 232
iteration 08 start frame 233
iteration 09 start frame 234
iteration 10 start frame 235

that's the simplest example. used to be easy to set up on an optical printer when they had those. ;-)

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Old 12-30-2014, 07:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
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...This is rapidly going to turn in to "Why doesn't it do X" ...
my reasoning exactly in having opposed reaper getting into video in any but the most rudimentary fashion: being able to sync to picture. to me, though, the discussion does seem to have changed recently.

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...no mask, no color correctors, no...........this list could get ridiculous...
yup

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Old 12-30-2014, 07:22 PM   #38
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Not entirely sure why anybody would ant that kind of effect to be honest, just starting a clip at different frames on repeat, never seen a viable use for that in an edit, but hey if that floats your boat, it is easy to do in a bunch of video apps if you want any help, just PM me

As for seeding, it is a term used for growth, so when you are layering generative content, you have the choice of using the same seed to have the exact same results every time over life, or use a different seed for the same effect but with completely different results (Simplest way to see this, use any video effect app and look for noise generation, it will have a seed property)

As for your comment about approaching video as similar to MIDI, been happening for years, go look at any number of VJ applications, those may the kind of thing you are looking for.
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Old 12-30-2014, 07:27 PM   #39
babag
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thanks. have looked at vj stuff. the things i do, though, are more hybrid. need something that is a straight editor but with only a few things from the vj world.

which editors do you have in mind as having progressive looping capability?
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Old 12-30-2014, 07:56 PM   #40
Win Conway
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Progressive looping as you described it is a simple script, you could do that in Fusion which is now free
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