Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Remind me what solo in front does...

Instead of having Solo, mute all unsoloed tracks, this "dims" the volume of those tracks by the level in Reaper's Preferences (default is -18db). Once you start using it, it's really handing for making good EQ decisions because the track you've got Dim-Solo'd is good and loud, but you're still hearing the rest of your mix.

If anyone hasn't used that, or didn't know Reaper had that, give it a try.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Instead of having Solo, mute all unsoloed tracks, this "dims" the volume of those tracks by the level in Reaper's Preferences (default is -18db). Once you start using it, it's really handing for making good EQ decisions because the track you've got Dim-Solo'd is good and loud, but you're still hearing the rest of your mix.

If anyone hasn't used that, or didn't know Reaper had that, give it a try.

Cool, didn't even know that was a thing

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Cool, didn't even know that was a thing

The default of -18db is too high for me, but in between -12db to -6db is the sweetspot IMO. I have mine set to -9db.

Give it a shot.

[d. gauss]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

ClearAllSolo definitely used to work on 1.1. That’s one of buttons on my XTouch One.

yes! same here.

[d. gauss]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

The floor is open for discussion.

Zone "Buttons"
    Track                       Shift
    Pan                         ToggleEnableFocusedFXParamMapping
    EQ                          ToggleEnableFocusedFXMapping 
    Send                        GoSelectedTrackSend
    Plugin                      GoSelectedTrackFXMenu
    Instrument                  GoSelectedTrackReceive
    Shift+Send                  GoTrackSend
    Shift+Plugin                GoTrackFXMenu
    Shift+Instrument            GoTrackReceive
    BankLeft                    TrackBank -8
    BankRight                   TrackBank 8
    ChannelLeft                 TrackBank -1
    ChannelRight                TrackBank 1
    Flip                        NoAction
    GlobalView                  GoHome
    GlobalView                  Reaper "_S&M_WNCLS3"        // Close all floating FX windows
    GlobalView                  Reaper "_S&M_WNCLS4"        // Close all FX chain windows
    GlobalView                  Reaper "_S&M_TOGLFXCHAIN"   // Toggle FX Chain for selected tracks
    nameValue                   NoAction
    smpteBeats                  CycleTimeDisplayModes
    TimeDisplay                 TimeDisplay
    F1                          NoAction
    F2                          NoAction
    F3                          NoAction
    F4                          NoAction
    F5                          NoAction
    F6                          NoAction
    F7                          NoAction
    F8                          NoAction
    MidiTracks                  NoAction
    Inputs                      NoAction
    AudioTracks                 NoAction
    AudioInstrument             NoAction
    Aux                         NoAction
    Busses                      NoAction
    Outputs                     NoAction
    User                        NoAction
    Shift                       Shift
    Option                      Option
    Control                     Control
    Alt                         Alt     
    Read                        TrackAutoMode 1
    Write                       TrackAutoMode 3
    Trim                        TrackAutoMode 0
    Touch                       TrackAutoMode 2
    Latch                       TrackAutoMode 4
    Group                       TrackAutoMode 5
    Shift+Read                  GlobalAutoMode 1
    Shift+Write                 GlobalAutoMode 3
    Shift+Trim                  GlobalAutoMode 0
    Shift+Touch                 GlobalAutoMode 2
    Shift+Latch                 GlobalAutoMode 4  
    Shift+Group                 GlobalAutoMode 5   
    Save                        NoAction
    Undo                        NoAction
    Cancel                      NoAction
    Enter                       NoAction
    Marker                      NoAction
    Nudge                       NoAction 
    Cycle                       CycleTimeline
    Drop                        NoAction
    Replace                     NoAction
    Click                       Reaper 40364  	// Toggle metronome
    Hold+Click                  Reaper 40363  	// Show metronome settings
    Solo                        NoAction
    Rewind                      NoAction   
    FastForward                 NoAction
    Stop                        Stop
    Play                        Play
    Record                      Record
    JogWheelRotaryCW            NoAction
    JogWheelRotaryCCW           NoAction
    Scrub                       NoAction
    Left                        NoAction     
    Right                       NoAction
    Up                          NoAction
    Down                        NoAction
    Zoom                        NoAction
ZoneEnd

these work for me (most you can see in my csi folder i zipped up a few posts back),

Flip = toggle master channel fx on/off (i.e. eliminate latency during recording. fwiw, use this more than any other button besides transport)

nameValue = Shift
F1-F8 = markers 1 -8
MidiTracks = Toggle Mixer
Inputs = toggle track manager
AudioTracks = toggle fx browser
AudioInstrument = Toggle MIDI Editor
Aux = Toggle Show FX Chain
Busses = toggle grid on/off
Outputs = toggle snap on/off
User = toggle lock on/off
Save = save project as
Left = scroll right
Right = scroll right
Up = scroll up
Down = scroll down
Zoom = zoom zone (jogwheel zooms in out)

[jacksoonbrowne]

See my next post

[jacksoonbrowne]

Hi Geoff,

I have been following the V2.0 EXP discussion diligently since my last posts to https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=234209

I modified the Dec/2021 CSI1.1 source code to to fix 2 issues I had with CSI<-->X32 needs.
I do not know if these issues have yet been addresses in EXP V2.0 yet.
If not I will wait till V2.0 release is stable.

Issue 1 -
_________

The V1.1 source code wants to bind to UDP ports for both the incoming and outgoing UDP ports based on the CSI.ini file settings.

V1.1 of CSI would fail if the surface UDP port and the CSI UDP port were set the same in CSI.ini, as the SOCKETS lib will will not allow more than 1 binding per UDP port


There is no need for CSI to bind to the target OSC surface UDP PORT.
It can simply create a single socket and bind to it a local port.
This sockets handle can be used to send UDP packets to the target (X32)
The targets UDP port does not need to "binded" by CSI

Binding is only needed for CSI to listen on a SPECIFIC INCOMING UDP port.

Also this one port bound, can be used to send outgoing UDP packets to any IP address/port that the source desires

See also https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...8&postcount=78

CSI: No need to bind to surface UDP port.

I may have a hard time explaining the SOCKETS C++ library, but I do totally understand it.
if anyone needs more clarification on client/server UDP SOCKET inf0, let me know and I will post relevant info.
If you google client server UDP you will find a shat load of links.
Basically CSI to X32: CSI is qa client and X32 is a server.
Analogous to CSI is web browser and X32 is conent pr5ovidedr.

Clear as mud ehhh,



Issue 2 -
_________

The X32 will not send any OSC messages to CSI until CSI first sends an OSC packet "/xremote" to the X32.

And CSI must sent this "/xremote" OSC packet every 9 seconds or less to the x32 to "Keepalive" X32 comms.

"/xremote" is basically telling X32 that "Hey X32, CSI here, and I want to subscribe to your osc messages".

Analogous to a web browser (CSI) connecting to a web page (x32) and saying give me your real time data.


After "/xremote" is received by the X32 it will send unsolicited OSC events to CSI for a maximum of 10 seconds. Therefore the "/xremote" should be sent by CSI on a periodic basis that is less than 10 seconds to ensure that no X32 events are missed by the CSI.
I would suggest every 5 to 8 seconds for safety.

I did a patch in V1.1 dec 2021 source that "TheManager->Run()" (invoked at about 33 times per second as a default preference) would increment a counter, and when the counter hits a limit (in this case nine seconds) it would send an .... .... to the X32

Issue 3 -
_________


The X32 supports and may use all of the minimum OSC data type specifications, and will need CSI to be able to send the following data types to the X32:


int32
float32
string

(ascii characters followed by a NULL, then padded with 0-3 NULL characters so that total length in bytes is a multiple of 4)

OSC-blob

(32-bit byte count followed by that many bytes and then padded with zeroes so that total length in bytes is a multiple of 4)
BLOBS are analogous to MIDI SysEx messages so to speak.
And I dont have a use case with the X32 that would require BLOBS at this point

[Geoff Waddington]

Hey, nice to see you again, been a while.

The gitHub CSI source is updated every time I make sufficient changes, usually a few times a day lately, so just grab it and tell me what you need me to do

https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/CSICode

[Puck]

I pass this truck almost every day and think of you all.

Chris’ Sewer Inspection

lol

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Puck

I pass this truck almost every day and think of you all.

Chris’ Sewer Inspection

lol

Geez, that's an awful crappy thing to point out

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Puck

I pass this truck almost every day and think of you all.

Chris’ Sewer Inspection

lol

It's even got the colon:

[Geoff Waddington]

New build is up.

CSI Exp.zip

ClearAllSolo is back

Also added Save, Undo, and Redo (Redo is mapped to Enter in the supplied X-Touch Buttons Zone)

Each of them lights up if the operation is possible.

For instance, if you can Undo, it lights up.

Once you have "undone" as far as possible, the light goes out.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Each of them lights up if the operation is possible.

For instance, if you can Undo, it lights up.

Once you have "undone" as far as possible, the light goes out.

That's really cool!

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

New build is up.

CSI Exp.zip

ClearAllSolo is back

Also added Save, Undo, and Redo (Redo is mapped to Enter in the supplied X-Touch Buttons Zone)

Each of them lights up if the operation is possible.

For instance, if you can Undo, it lights up.

Once you have "undone" as far as possible, the light goes out.

Very nice!

[Geoff Waddington]

Thanks MixMonkey and d. gauss, I'm rethinking the Associated Zones layout on the X-Touch.

It actually sucks.

Was trying to get the labels to line up, bad idea

The six Associated Zones are "radio buttoned", but since only 3 are visible at a time, the whole thing falls apart

Add to that the "fake" Shift button, aka Track, and every time you have it engaged the whole Page is "shifted", since the modifiers are per Page, uggh

So, given that we also need buttons to turn on/off the focused FX and Focused FX param functions, let's see if we can find 8 unused buttons.

Oh look, there they are, directly to the right of the Global View button (which is mapped to Home), perfect.

I think the 2 Focused ones go on the far right end.

Now, should the Selected Track 3 come first, or the Track 3 come first after Global View, that is the question...

Any thoughts on what Track, Pan/Surround, EQ, Send, Plug-in, and Inst should map to, now that they are free ?

Also pondering using Flip for VCA spill and Shift+Flip for Folders, or vice versa, what do you think ?

Drop and Replace are also under consideration for those roles, although Flip seems nicely placed on the surface for those tasks...

[edit] Or maybe nameValue and Flip for VCA/Folders, if those were radio buttons, that could be cool...

[d. gauss]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Any thoughts on what Track, Pan/Surround, EQ, Send, Plug-in, and Inst should map to, now that they are free ?

right now i have the row right next to Global view controlling the top reaper toolbar icons, but that could easily move up to the track/pan row instead. but better do it fast before muscle memory sets in

i.e. i have from right to left:

user =lock on/off
outputs =snap on/off
buses=grid on/off
etc.

[d. gauss]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Also pondering using Flip for VCA spill and Shift+Flip for Folders, or vice versa, what do you think ?

as i've mentioned, FLIP for me is perfectly visually associated with the master fader so i have it set to toggle the master FX on/off. my master bus FX chain has tons of latency so i need to regularly toggle them off pretty much every time i do an OD. so i use that button ALL the time. my 2 cents.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by d. gauss

right now i have the row right next to Global view controlling the top reaper toolbar icons, but that could easily move up to the track/pan row instead. but better do it fast before muscle memory sets in

i.e. i have from right to left:

user =lock on/off
outputs =snap on/off
buses=grid on/off
etc.

Ok, there are 7 of them after metronome, should we lay 6 of them out linearly, and then use nameValue for lock ?

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Was trying to get the labels to line up, bad idea

Give it up, for your own sanity

The six Associated Zones are "radio buttoned", but since only 3 are visible at a time, the whole thing falls apart

Use the 3 next door buttons (Track, Pan, EQ) for the SelectedTrack variants. Then your radio buttons look great!

[MixMonkey]

What's the action for "Undo"?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by d. gauss

as i've mentioned, FLIP for me is perfectly visually associated with the master fader so i have it set to toggle the master FX on/off. my master bus FX chain has tons of latency so i need to regularly toggle them off pretty much every time i do an OD. so i use that button ALL the time. my 2 cents.

Cool, although for a generic layout, is that widely used enough, it may be, just wondering...

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Give it up, for your own sanity

Thanks to you, already have

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Use the 3 next door buttons (Track, Pan, EQ) for the SelectedTrack variants. Then your radio buttons look great!

Yes, but then the 2 Focused ones need a home, it really is a set of 8 total...

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

What's the action for "Undo"?

Undo

Have a look at the X-Touch Buttons Zone.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Also pondering using Flip for VCA spill and Shift+Flip for Folders, or vice versa, what do you think ?

I'd suggest keeping Flip for a subzone to flip faders and pans. The X-Touch encoders suck (or at least the ones on the X-Touch One do) so I hate panning on the X-Touch One. It's much easier to quickly flip the pan onto the fader and adjust there. So much more responsive. Then you can use shift for PanWidth on the fader with FaderTouch updating the displays. Note: I've been flipping the pan onto the fader via a modifier on my X-Touch One setup for a long time now and it's become my preferred way to adjust pans - user tested!

Plus, that functionality lines up with the label and how I think a new user would expect the X-Touch to work out of the box. There's going to be no way to avoid mismatched functionality from the label, but where original MCU functionality can be maintained, I'd say keep it!

At least for the default X-Touch file layout.

Give it a shot!

Zone "Flip"    
    DisplayUpper|                      TrackNameDisplay
    DisplayLower|                      TrackVolumeDisplay
    Fader|Touch+DisplayLower|          TrackPanDisplay
    Shift+Fader|Touch+DisplayLower|    TrackPanWidthDisplay  
    Rotary|                            TrackVolume
    Fader|                             TrackPan "0"
    Shift+Fader|                       TrackPanWidth "1"
    Flip                               LeaveSubZone
ZoneEnd

[d. gauss]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

What's the action for "Undo"?

40029

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I'd suggest keeping Flip for a subzone to flip faders and pans. The X-Touch encoders suck (or at least the ones on the X-Touch One do) so I hate panning on the X-Touch One. It's much easier to quickly flip the pan onto the fader and adjust there. So much more responsive. Then you can use shift for PanWidth on the fader with FaderTouch updating the displays.

Plus, that functionality lines up with the label and how I think a new user would expect the X-Touch to work out of the box. There's going to be no way to avoid mismatched functionality from the label, but where original MCU functionality can be maintained, I'd say keep it!

At least for the default X-Touch file layout.

Good point !

As you say, we could implement it in a SubZone

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by d. gauss

40029

Unless you want the fancy lights, see a few posts back

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Undo

Have a look at the X-Touch Buttons Zone.

Ah, sorry, was looking at the wrong Buttons file, doh!

(I probably should have guessed it was "Undo")

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Ah, sorry, was looking at the wrong Buttons file, doh!

(I probably should have guessed it was "Undo")

Haha, remember last night when I thought ClearAllSolo was broken, since I mistakenly assigned it Rewind and nothing happened when I pressed Solo

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Yes, but then the 2 Focused ones need a home, it really is a set of 8 total...

I think you're trying to fit a quart into a pint pot here I'd stay away from the row above the transport, Cycle, Click are more frequenlty used than Zone changes.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

I think you're trying to fit a quart into a pint pot here I'd stay away from the row above the transport, Cycle, Click are more frequenlty used than Zone changes.

Wasn't suggesting they get mapped to Drop or Replace, just wondering where those 2 Focused Toggles should go if we use the Encoder Assign 6 for the Associated Zones ?

[d. gauss]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

I'd stay away from the row above the transport, Cycle, Click are more frequenlty used than Zone changes.

agree.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Wasn't suggesting they get mapped to Drop or Replace, just wondering where those 2 Focused Toggles should go if we use the Encoder Assign 6 for the Associated Zones ?

Fair enough just pointing out that proximity to the front of the controller has a bearing on assignments.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by d. gauss

agree.

Ok, but what should we do with Drop and Replace ?

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Ok, but what should we do with Drop and Replace ?

Replace: Toggle Ripple Editing
Drop: Toggle Snapping

[d. gauss]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Replace: Toggle Ripple Editing
Drop: Toggle Snapping

i have those up on that other row i mentioned a few posts back with lock and snap etc.

IMO, i wouldn't want the ripple toggle anywhere near the oft-used transport buttons. (if you have ever accidentally toggled ripple edit in a huge project with paying clients looking over your shoulder and totally messed it up you'll know what i mean)

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Ok, but what should we do with Drop and Replace ?

Why not use them to indicate the 3 record modes?, Normal, Time selection auto-punch, auto-punch selected items.

Both off: Normal
Drop On: Time selection auto-punch
ReplaceOn: auto-punch selected items

[MixMonkey]

Could you make the displays clear properly/redisplay the FXMenu when changing tracks with an FX mapped?

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by d. gauss

i have those up on that other row i mentioned a few posts back with lock and snap etc.

IMO, i wouldn't want the ripple toggle anywhere near the oft-used transport buttons. (if you have ever accidentally toggled ripple edit in a huge project with paying clients looking over your shoulder and totally messed it up you'll know what i mean)

Yep, good point!

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Why not use them to indicate the 3 record modes?, Normal, Time selection auto-punch, auto-punch selected items.

Both off: Normal
Drop On: Time selection auto-punch
ReplaceOn: auto-punch selected items

I could dig that!

[Funkybot]

Side question: does the X-Touch Universal ship with a set overlays like the X-Touch One does? The X-Touch One has a nice "User" overlay that's specifically designed for making your own labels, as well as a set of overlays for other DAWs. I've never seen one an X-Touch Universal but I'm not sure if that's because Behringer didn't bother to include any, or if users just aren't using them (or posting photos of them).