Old 03-18-2019, 08:07 PM   #1
mrkeys1962
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Utah
Posts: 9
Default SampleTank 3 compatibility

I have an 8th generation Intel i7, 32GB DDR4 RAM,SSD along with 2tb and 1tb secondary drives Windows 10 setup. When I bought this rig I installed an older version of Cubase (cubase 5) which had both 32bit and 64bit versions on disk. Ran the 64 bit version. I was having problems with SampleTank 2 and so bought the upgraded version SampleTank 3. The problem with that program is that everything sounds digitally distorted no matter what the recording volume is set to. Went looking for an alternative and found Reaper. Purchased a copy and Reaper is just hacking the hell out of ST3. Just holding a note on a ST3 patch for any length of time causes all sorts of digital pixilation in the sound. Stuttering type of sound. So bad you can't play a track to record. However, on playback it works fine. I can play ST3 stand alone with absolutely no hickups. Nor does the old version of Cubase have an issue like this. I d/l'd a patch off the net (perfect pianos or something like that) and it works fine. So is Reaper completely incompatible with ST3? I've tried adjusting various settings to no avail. In addition, my vocals have an incredibly serious delay when recording with an effect. It's as if Reaper is just struggling with any program that requires CPU power. That having been said, looking at the meter on Reaper the Midi track that is armed to record is only showing use of 4 to 5 percent.

Last edited by mrkeys1962; 03-20-2019 at 08:15 AM.
mrkeys1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2019, 01:20 AM   #2
azslow3
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 797
Default

REAPER is known for its extraordinary optimized performance. So that is not a general problem.

You have not mentioned your audio interface and which driver mode and buffer settings you try to use with it. To exclude as the source of distortion, start with WaveOut mode and big buffers/number of buffers. You will get unplayable delay, but at least it should sound clean. If that is the case, switch to ASIO mode and tune the buffer setting (starting point can be settings from ST3 standalone which work fine for you).

There was problems with ST3 in VST3i incarnation. It should be fine now, but try to load VSTi (VST2) ST3.

Delays from FXes comes from FX design. Some plug-ins are not thought to be used live (sometimes with particular settings, sometimes in general). Open View/Performance Meter. Look at "PDC" column. To identify the plug-in, open FX window for the track in question. Click on FXes, watch numbers in the lower left corner, "X/Y spls". X is current plug-in defined delay, Y is total delay (rounded to the buffer size). I repeat, that not comes from "CPU usage", to process audio better, some plug-ins want to know "future" audio to make the decision for the "past".

MIDI should show the "signal" and velocity (for notes) by default (when rec armed). Till you changed VU meters preferences.
azslow3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2019, 03:52 PM   #3
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

Worth noting that the standalone version of v2 ran in 32bit regardless of which version you used for a VST. I gave up on IKMM when 3 was introduced, so I dont know if this is still the case, although IIR version3 was announced as 64bit only?
Might be worth checking.
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2019, 08:21 AM   #4
mrkeys1962
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Utah
Posts: 9
Default

azslow, The audio interface I was using a few months back was the Tascam US-1800 which had worked but was dated and thought that might be the problem. Purchased the Behringer UMC404HD which is what I'm presently using. Issue is the same on either interface. I've got a bit to unpack on what you had replied with as I'm not tech savy on the Reaper program. I was a Cubase dude back in the day but think it's b.s. how they charge so much for upgrading all the time and I just don't feel the value is there. Especially after watching many of the Reaper tutorials on this site. Anyway, SampleTank 3 is a 64 bit program in case that was of interest. They just came out with ST4 but, again, I'm sick of paying for all these expensive upgrades and not really thinking the sounds are that much better from the demos. I didn't really explain that on Cubase 5 both the audio recording and midi recording and playback all are severely distorted. So think it's just too dated to work with current hardware correctly. I'll try to plow through your suggestions etc. azslow and get back to you.
mrkeys1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2019, 08:39 AM   #5
mrkeys1962
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Utah
Posts: 9
Default

Let me throw stuff out: Audio system ASIO. Driver: UMC ASIO Driver. Auto detect number of threads (there are 12). Thread priority highest. Media buffer size 200ms. FX processing Render ahead 200 ms. In my VST plug in paths I have C:\Program Files (x86)\Steinberg\VstPlugins;C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VstPlugins;C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3. I would imagine that looks ok. VST bridging/firewalling: Automatic bridging (when required). Is there anything else that would help you in assessing the problem? Let me know and I'll post whatever info you might be looking for.
mrkeys1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2019, 09:29 AM   #6
azslow3
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 797
Default

As I have mentioned, check the buffer size (in samples, you see that in the top right corner in REAPER). Try to set 512 or even 1024, just to see if you can get clean sound (use Behringer utility to set it, you can also try "request" in REAPER preferences but that does not work with all interfaces).

But to check the problem is (or is not) with interface (system latency), switch to Waveout driver mode with buffers "4 x 512" (in REAPER preferences). If you still get clicks, the problem is somewhere else. But if you get clean sound, you will know the problem is interface related (you will need to run latency monitor, check power-saving settings, etc.).

Note there was many reports some Behringer interfaces run smoother and with lower latency under WDM/KS driver instead of ASIO.
azslow3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2019, 09:52 AM   #7
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
Default

Looking at your VST plug-ins paths, I'll guess that the VST3 edition of SampleTank is being loaded. Can you try loading the VSTi (that is, VST2) edition and see how that behaves?

You might need to remove the VST3 path from the path list temporarily and do a Clear cache / Rescan).
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
DarkStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2019, 05:26 PM   #8
mrkeys1962
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Utah
Posts: 9
Default

Thanks Dark Star. The only thing that is leading me away from a path issue is that playback is fine. It's only while a track is armed in record mode and the monitoring is enabled so you can hear what you're playing that the unplayability of ST3 occurs. But I'll check it out anyway. Appreciate the suggestion.
mrkeys1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2019, 05:57 PM   #9
mrkeys1962
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Utah
Posts: 9
Default

Ok azslow3. It was set at 512. Changed it to 1024 and the issue got about 10 times better. Switched it to 2048 and it's completely clean. So that's nice to have some progress. As I'm sure you probably already know, now latency is insane. At 1024 it was probably about 50 to 70 ms and with 2048 is about double that. Anyway, is there any way to bring the latency in line after getting to this point? By the way, thanks azslow3.
mrkeys1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2019, 06:23 PM   #10
mrkeys1962
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Utah
Posts: 9
Default

Well I guess if nothing else, I can play at 1024 and just deal with a little hickup here and there. Will cut off holding of notes at times and a tiny bit of digital distortion here and there but tolerable. At the same time the latency is actually more like 20 to 30 ms which is doable in laying down tracks. If there is something to counteract that latency issue let me know aslow3 or anyone else who has dealt with this issue and knows how to fix latency issues. Appreciate your help.
mrkeys1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2019, 04:39 AM   #11
azslow3
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 797
Default

I recommend you try the following list: http://www.azslow.com/index.php?topic=395.0
Obviously the first, not DAW specific, part.

Most important to run latency monitor and check there is no bad drivers installed. But power settings can also be the reason (as well as 100 things not mentioned in the list...).

Your system should be able to run fine with 256 (in fact much less). Something is preventing that.

But do not hesitate to try WDM/KS. It can be simpler to achieve good result by doing do.
azslow3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2019, 10:51 AM   #12
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Looking at your VST plug-ins paths, I'll guess that the VST3 edition of SampleTank is being loaded. Can you try loading the VSTi (that is, VST2) edition and see how that behaves?

You might need to remove the VST3 path from the path list temporarily and do a Clear cache / Rescan).
Sample Tank 3 and up are 64bit only.
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2019, 02:04 PM   #13
songshop
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 55
Default check your version

IKMM make very questionable software sometimes. ST3 is one of them.I must use version 3.5.3 or it ALWAYS crashes Reaper within 20 minutes. I believe there's a memory handling error with it introduced after 3.5.3 when they added their 'shop' layer. 3.5.3 vst2 (!) however is quite stable.

hth
songshop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2019, 09:04 PM   #14
mrkeys1962
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Utah
Posts: 9
Default

Ok. So will wonders never cease? So just for the hell of it I set the buffer size in my Behringer unit to 128 spls instead of 1024 just to see what happens. It works flawlessly. So for some reason set to a 512 buffer size it is unplayable but setting it to 128 it works flawlessly. Is that bizarre or what?
mrkeys1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2019, 07:31 PM   #15
mrkeys1962
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Utah
Posts: 9
Default

Ok. So I knew it was too good to be true. I've just had a hell of a time with Reaper. I don't understand it. It still struggled with the digital crap playing ST3 and then I tried to work through it and quantize a passage and the quantize wouldn't work. Finally opened my old Cubase version and it is working flawlessly now. Maybe I hadn't tried it with this new audio interface. Anyway, ST3 works flawlessly with 0 latency. I just don't understand why Reaper has such a horrible time working in my system. Anyway, the good news is that I have a DAW that's finally working. The bad news is that I spent an inordinate amount of time struggling over Reaper and never could get the issue resolved. Thanks for all those that tried to help. I appreciate your efforts.
mrkeys1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 07:45 AM   #16
azslow3
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 797
Default

Cubase outperforming REAPER on the same system (so the same computer and audio interface) with the same settings is not something reported every day
azslow3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 08:02 PM   #17
mrkeys1962
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Utah
Posts: 9
Default

I so wanted Reaper to work out. I love the layout and the tutorials are phenomenal. I didn't even get into how any vocal effect just bogged the system down and the latency on the vocal was insane. Just something that'll have to be filed under puzzling realities in my life. I agree though. Why Cubase 5 would out perform current Reaper is a puzzler. Maybe we'll find out in the next life.
mrkeys1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.