Snap grid to audio workflow help request

[serr]

I’m looking for some tips to speed this up.
Specifically the scenario where audio has already been recorded elsewhere and one wants to snap the grid to it. Assume it had previously been recorded to a click or was sequencer based if you wish.

What I know how to do:
Find the zero downbeat (ie. the one). Slice there and pull that to the timeline start. (With the start being measure zero in project settings.)
Find a downbeat later on. Put a marker there. Start with a guess for the bpm. Type in guesses until it matches up. (Aside: I might decide to land on a whole number bpm instead of decimal dust and then vari-speed the audio. An intentional decision when it was obviously the original bpm and the decimal dust is from a clock difference between different interfaces or DAW timebases. The lossless veri-speed makes this an option IMO. But that's on me.) But you can assume I’ll work with the exact exact bpm value of the imported audio in this example. (eg. If it comes out to 77.013 bpm, then so be it.)

That works perfectly as it should. Pretty matter of fact.

Here’s what I want:
Place marker at the zero downbeat.
Place marker at a downbeat near the end.
Click one button.
Result is the timeline grid snaps to the markers… incorrectly at first (obviously it can’t read my mind or already know how many measures).
Mouse drag on the timeline (or somewhere) and have the grid snap snap snap until I see it line up in the correct spot measure by measure.
Follow the project settings for pre-roll and move that zero downbeat to the appropriate spot.

What I specifically don’t want to put up with:
Don’t even think of asking me to count how many measures I selected to have to type in!
Don’t leave the first bit of the grid the previous value and then make a tempo change and start the new one after it!

I’ve stumbled across the ability to drag an automation envelope for the timeline but I don’t know how to make it snap to anything as I’m requesting. I’ve stumbled across a timeline dialog that asks to type in the number of measures first. (Rage inducing! It could be something improvised where I would have to actually count it.) I believe that feature also defaults to making a tempo change and starting a new tempo. (Even more rage inducing!)

Either I’m missing an action or feature right in front of my face (typical!) or I’m asking for a rarely used workflow (likely). I get that most people start with a grid first for this kind of work. That’s all well and good and I do too when appropriate. But I’m after this 2nd scenario when working with imported audio.

Hope I explained well enough. My method works but I’m just impatient and this feels like it should be a great job for the computer to crunch out with convenience.

[Sibben]

Isn’t there a SWS function that does this? Converts markers to tempo changes on the tempo envelope.

Personally I use a command that snaps the closest timeline grid to the cursor and ignore markers because less hassle.

Excuse me if I totally misunderstood your question.

[serr]

Originally Posted by Sibben

Isn’t there a SWS function that does this? Converts markers to tempo changes on the tempo envelope.

Personally I use a command that snaps the closest timeline grid to the cursor and ignore markers because less hassle.

Excuse me if I totally misunderstood your question.

Hi Sibben
Thanks for the reply.

I absolutely don't want tempo changes or tempo markers. This is one of the actions I found and tried and it doesn't work for what I want. Or... maybe I don't know how to force it to alter the tempo of the entire project based on markers but restricted from making tempo changes. That's what I was trying to describe above that I do not want to happen!

What is the 2nd action you mention?
That sounds like it's closer to what I want. Except I want to place a marker precisely to the sample of what I want to be a bar/beat location. That can involve zooming in and I sure don't want to have to hover the cursor that precisely. It wouldn't be possible. Also this would need interaction from me because I will not know the number of measures before hand and I'm sure not counting them. I'd want to place the 2nd marker near the end to get the largest area to avoid under shooting by a sample or two and having it start to drift over length. Again I imagine being able to click/drag on it and having it snap bar divisions to the 2nd marker as I dragged. I would need to watch and stop dragging when I see the measure divisions correctly line up into place with the music when I hit the spot.

It would be nice if it could hold the first marker at bar zero and adjust the timeline as needed. I could always slice off any pre roll and make the zero bar the project start if I had to (as I described how I currently do this). But I want the computer to crunch this busy work!

All the actions I see are geared to starting with a grid in the first place as well as already determined song arrangements. I'm starting with improvised music and want to drag the grid into place conveniently afterwards. If that helps.

[IXix]

Originally Posted by serr

want to place a marker precisely to the sample of what I want to be a bar/beat location.

Sounds like you need "SWS/BR: Move closest left side grid line to edit cursor".

edit: or "SWS/BR: Move closest measure grid line to edit cursor"

[JonLinnarson]

Kenny Gioia has a video about matching an audio performance to tempo/click

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlGn...index=1&t=512s

It doesn't cover exactly everything you want to do, but it's a starting point at least.

I don't think there is a specific script or function to do this quicker or easier (at least not to my knowledge). There are some things you have to do manually, but you should get the hang of it pretty quickly.

To get the approximate bpm of a recording you can make a time selection from just listening to what should be one measure (so no more counting measures than that). For example: if it's a four-on-the-floor beat you make a time selection from the first kick transient to the fitfh kick transient and then press Alt+Shift+C "Create measure from time selection (detect tempo)".

It works fine if you select several measures as well, but Reaper will then guess how many measures you have selected.

You also need to have the correct time signature set before you do this, otherwise the tempo that Reaper detects will be for the time signature that is currently selected. So if it's a 5/4 song you need to have the global time signature set to 5/4 before you detect the tempo.

[serr]

Originally Posted by IXix

Sounds like you need "SWS/BR: Move closest left side grid line to edit cursor".

edit: or "SWS/BR: Move closest measure grid line to edit cursor"

Thanks for the reply!

So, I'm kind of resigning that I'll need to quick delete any pre-roll before the first zero marker to make any action work and I did just that to test this. I can always alter the project setting afterward to include negative pre-roll and drag any audio back (left) to restore. Just as I do with my current method.

These actions create unwanted temp changes in the grid at the marker. Looks like I can follow up with deleting the errant tempo marker created with a simple option-click. You can't hit it multiple times to nudge/snap until the correct bar lines up... so the move to cursor until shortcut released action or similar will be needed to start with.

I'll play with making a custom action around move to cursor followed by move to marker and with deleting tempo markers. If nothing else some initial manual work followed by a final hit with the move grid to nearest marker at the end could clean up the fiddly decimal dust move at the end and that's not nothing!

[IXix]

Originally Posted by serr

I'll play with making a custom action around move to cursor followed by move to marker and with deleting tempo markers.

But the tempo markers define the custom grid, you need at least one per measure unless I've misunderstood. I haven't done this for a while so I might be missing something.

[serr]

Yeah, the one at the start of the project needs to stay there. I don't think that will be a problem or be in the way though.

Alright, this is speeding this up to acceptable levels for my impatience!
I already use the delete time selection and ripple everything left action and I've had that as command-delete forever now.
That brings the zero marker point to start of project.

One 'move grid with mouse until shortcut released' at the first measure to rough in.
Another midway to further correct.
Then the 'move nearest grid to marker' at the end (where I chose to place that marker) does the final cleanup.

All of those followed by deleting the unwanted tempo markers it inserts.
Then restore any pre-roll.
And it takes about 5 seconds total.

I'll see if I can add the delete tempo markers to custom actions with the above.

This is good! Thanks for the tips!

[serr]

Aw shit. One glitch in the matrix...

I recorded MIDI along with some e-drums tracks.
The MIDI tracks did NOT adhere to the "time" choice for recorded items in project settings through those moves! These were just for the heck of it safeties in case someone changes their mind on the drum sounds and likely to be forgotten anyway. But I still want to get to the bottom of that faux pas.

edit:
I found the source properties field to lock MIDI items to a BPM - which one has to be bothered to type in and this has to be done for each item one by one.

Where is the project settings or preferences setting for timebase setting for all MIDI items hidden away?

[IXix]

Originally Posted by serr

Where is the project settings or preferences setting for timebase setting for all MIDI items hidden away?

Don't think such a thing exists. You can set timebase per track though, which might help.

[serr]

Adding the delete all tempo markers action to a custom action with the above works. And it leaves the required tempo marker created at the project start alone.

So this is all good and takes seconds now. Quicker than typing this post! Thanks again!

Did MIDI items really get forgotten about with the project settings feature?! I suppose the order of operations will usually be the other way. Except... I just tested importing from another project and you have to prep them first one by one or they follow the target project tempo setting regardless of the project settings item timebase being set to "time".

I definitely need to find the global setting for this one!
(MIDI recording is rare around here but I still want this to work properly so I can set it and forget it.)

[IXix]

You might be able to persuade a scripter to make something to avoid the hassle of setting item bpm one by one.

[Sibben]

Originally Posted by serr

All the actions I see are geared to starting with a grid in the first place as well as already determined song arrangements. I'm starting with improvised music and want to drag the grid into place conveniently afterwards. If that helps.

This is what I do too.

Originally Posted by IXix

Sounds like you need "SWS/BR: Move closest left side grid line to edit cursor".

And that’s how I do it!

The MIDI bpm thing is a hassle.