Old 08-12-2010, 08:44 PM   #41
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Ah yes... I love that album. It was in constant rotation in my changer for a good year. 'Declaration Day' gets me every time.
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Old 08-30-2010, 06:17 PM   #42
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyDUp...eature=related

How to get sound like this guitar? Despite all my best efforts, I have far too much fizz, and not enough of that humming chainsaw oscillation. No fiddling with EQ or Compression has succeeded, but then I'm no veteran at this either.

I've got a plethora of sounds to play with: Guitar Rig 4, 6 string with EMGs, 7 string, a Marshall head... No matter how good it sounds alone, put it in the mix and it becomes fizzy goo. I can hear that a large percentage of this tone is in the bass, do I need to put some OD on the bass to make it gel better? A bit of the sound has to be the bass drum too, but those fade ins are exactly the sound I'm going for.
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:16 PM   #43
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Saw Iron Maiden in Brasil few years back. Big following.
Noticed alot of the "New Metal" is very similar. I grew out of I.M. at about 17 but they still making millions.

What Id like to know is why is the Cookie Monster doing vocals for 9 out of 10 of the Metal, Death Metal, Thrash Metal.

Phil A. of the Pantera fame really yells screams etc. My daughter now 18 learned the inhale and the psuedo screaming when she was about 9. My partner Pat is a fake screaming fanatic. Im not turned of by it but it doesnt hasnt given me wood in about 10 years or so.

Musician ship aside (which is very good) when I hear alot of this i cant help but thinking that most of these guys are interchangeable. Then right behind that I start hearing

" C is for Cookie its good enough for me! C is for Cookie its good enough for me!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhUFxaauNTE

What 'did' Max Cavalera do before Sepultura!

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Old 08-30-2010, 11:33 PM   #44
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How to get sound like this guitar? Despite all my best efforts, I have far too much fizz, and not enough of that humming chainsaw oscillation. No fiddling with EQ or Compression has succeeded, but then I'm no veteran at this either.
Those guitars are REALLY dark.
I'd suggest keeping the treble and presence on the amp (or ampsim) at 5 (or less!).
A lowpass at 7k-ish, or maybe lower, probably wouldn't go amiss.

You don't really need to compress distorted guitar; distortion IS compression.
I use a multiband compressor on occasion, but a standard compressor isn't going to do much good, and probably will do bad.

Also, listen to the drums... or more accurately, the lack thereof. This track is mainly guitars, bass, and synths.
And it's been squashed to hell and back. So don't focus on getting a huge, loud guitar tone. Focus on getting a good, solid guitar tone that meshes with the song.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:48 AM   #45
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I'm sensing that, I think my concern is that I want to cut out the fizziness but retain definition, and not get in the way of the huge bass that contributes so nicely.

I think I've got a ways to go with the guitar tracking...
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:35 PM   #46
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Definition is usually (in my experience) in the 2-4kHz range; don't pull any of that out and you should be okay. Use the low-pass like a scalpel. Let the song play, and start pulling it down until it sounds bad, then move it back up just a bit.
To get out of the way of the bass, a high-pass will do lots of good. Do the same thing: let the song play, and move it up until it starts sounding weak, then move it back down a hair.
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:00 PM   #47
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High pass I've got... I see my glaring mistake now though: I killed 2-4k to make the tone sound good solo'd.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:48 PM   #48
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I've been trying and trying to establish a good punchy/heavy guitar sound. I don't know if anyone listens to any bands like Miss May I or Asking Alexandria. But i have tried anything from recording with high gain, low gain, a clean sound and then adding effects and i just cannot seem to get the sound that im truely looking for. Are there any tips to help me get to this sound. If you would like an example of the sound look up on youtube "Apologies For the Week" by Miss May I. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

thanks,


Derek
Joey Sturgis, who produced those bands, uses Line 6 POD Farm for all the guitars. It is all about the presets, and mixing to taste. He lives in the same town I do, and he is floating around this board somewhere. Mostly, he uses the Bogner Uberschall model, as well as Cali Tread/diamondplate, with mesa 4x12 cabs, mic'd with a condenser mic, rather than an SM57. He adds a little bit of C4... boost at 300 to 400 hz, cut at 4k, boost 5-8k for clarity, etc.

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Old 08-31-2010, 05:52 PM   #49
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Sorry but just to reiterate, on Miss May I's CDs, there is not a single mic'd up amplifier, it is all POD XT, there's no dual amping going on.
If I remember correctly, the parts were quad tracked, too.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:58 PM   #50
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So, to give an even clearer example of my awful skillz in comparison to what I'm aiming for: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/6093/clipA.flac
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:18 PM   #51
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1. What was your guitar chain for that track? The distortion sounds like Guitar Rig to me, and I've never managed to get a tone I was happy with out of that thing. Have you tried any of the good free amps floating around? LePou's SoloC or Le456, Onqel's TSE X30, or AcmeBarGig's Shred? How about cabinet impulses? You'd be surprised how much of a difference the right cab can make.

2. Turn the gain down by one or two notches, and drop the overall volume of the guitars by... for a start, at least 9db. Try cutting the area around 400Hz and boosting 1.5kHz to clear up a bit of that mud, maybe a boost around 8khz as well.
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:32 PM   #52
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1. What was your guitar chain for that track? The distortion sounds like Guitar Rig to me, and I've never managed to get a tone I was happy with out of that thing. Have you tried any of the good free amps floating around? LePou's SoloC or Le456, Onqel's TSE X30, or AcmeBarGig's Shred? How about cabinet impulses? You'd be surprised how much of a difference the right cab can make.

2. Turn the gain down by one or two notches, and drop the overall volume of the guitars by... for a start, at least 9db. Try cutting the area around 400Hz and boosting 1.5kHz to clear up a bit of that mud, maybe a boost around 8khz as well.
This!
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Old 09-01-2010, 08:23 AM   #53
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Also

HPF at around 100HZ give or take to taste. Lets the Bass rig and low drums through.

And yea if the gain is wide ass open it going to be fizzy. Especially if your multi tracking guitars. The more gain on an amp the smaller and thinner the guitar sound, especially when it hits the mix. And the more passes the smaller and smaller it gets.

I know so and so uses a triple rect on 11, gain on 11 but trust me when it hit the mix engineers desk they had to really work at undoing alot of that "ideal tone".

What we hear standing at the amp is not what your going to hear in the mix or even 20 ft. away from it. Most of the loud stack shreader clients on mine art tone deaf from about 3k and up(fact). Long term amp exposure wears out there ability to hear high freqs and that their "Tone" sounds like bacon sizzling in an over-heated pan. And yea guitarist are the most tone deaf from this,loud guitars no hearing protection = bad ears. What they think their hearing isnt how it sounds. It isnt apparent until it hits the mix and then they say what happened to my tone?

Gain and low end on guitar are compounding exponetially (not summating) when multi-tracking on any thing really guitar, vox, etc.

If you want a gigantic guitar sound the best way is with an amp. It doesnt have to be a full stack at all. My best re-amped tones from clients are on a 40watt marshall in a cab room thats really dry.

There is an interaction between mic an cab at high volumes. What you want is to capture the speaker excursion of the the cabinet. That sound only comes when your moving air with the cones.

Try even a small shitty amp with a mic of choice, turn up the amp until you see the cone start to move really well. Try it with the gain on around 4-5 for starters eq the amp to taste, then eq with mic placement on the speaker for flavor. If your uncomfortable with a naked tone (lower gain than your use to) then monitor it in the headphone and put a gain plug-in on the track while tracking, then remove it at the mix stage. Or use a Morley x-y and record the split signal DI then reamp.

Multi pass these with tight parts and low gain, good loud volume for the amp size(not defening unless it sounds good). You will be pleasantly suprised.

Someone mentioned Andy Sneape sight. Very good choice if your searching for tone. Hes an appt engineer and musician.

If you have a desser plug put it on a track thats still fizzy after eq and set the x-over freq around the 3-9khz region and push the threshold down till some of that fizz goes away then post eq the high end back to taste.

Desser very good de-fizzer but i will dull the highs some what, i.e. post eq it.

p.s if anyone plays one of those shitty high gain solid state LIne 6 amps and keep gettin a nasally fizzy signal. Throw a 57 on the back of the cab, almost in it and nothing else. Youll be happy. Dealt with a client lately on this very thing. He insisted on using that amp and its glorious artificial presets. I mic'd it normally plus an Audix I5 in the back. Only used the I5 in the mix. Finished product and the band and guitarist were very happy. He said,"see I told you the amp sounded good. I smiled and said, "yea your right, will that be cash or check.

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Old 09-03-2010, 06:33 PM   #54
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cdavis6406
I absolutely agree with you said.
KM
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Old 09-04-2010, 05:13 AM   #55
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Does any of the "downtuned-cookie-monster-vocal-chugga-chugga-metal" get airplay?

Over here in the LA/OC market I've listened for years and never heard one of those tunes on the air ever.

I joked to a buddy I hear more accordian than those tunes and actually found a station playing accordian while we were talking about it. (Some of the spanish speaking channels play traditional stuff. You can hear accordian every day, LOL!)

Is this style basically an internet thing?

Just curious were it gets heard. Been listening to "heavy guitar" since the late 60's and am old enough to consider Metallica "The New Metal", so been following "heavy" for decades, and yet have never heard this stuff on air.

Which really surprises me given the market I'm sitting in.
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Old 09-04-2010, 06:50 AM   #56
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Does any of the "downtuned-cookie-monster-vocal-chugga-chugga-metal" get airplay?
Special radio shows, concerts, CD-s, internet - as with all niche stuff.
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Old 09-04-2010, 08:18 AM   #57
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Does any of the "downtuned-cookie-monster-vocal-chugga-chugga-metal" get airplay?

Over here in the LA/OC market I've listened for years and never heard one of those tunes on the air ever.
Aside from Enter Sandman, Paranoid, and the rare appearance of Run To The Hills, I don't hear any metal on the radio, ever. Other regions might be different, but Calgary doesn't have any stations that would even consider playing metal, let alone stuff with growly vocals. CJAY 92 used to have a two-hour show on Saturday nights for metal, and our university station has something similar, but that's it.
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Old 09-04-2010, 08:48 AM   #58
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Does any of the "downtuned-cookie-monster-vocal-chugga-chugga-metal" get airplay?


I joked to a buddy I hear more accordian than those tunes and actually found a station playing accordian while we were talking about it.
It's actually Hurdy-Gurdy (look it up) but I know where you're coming from. This kind of music is not radio-friendly. I personally enjoy it, though my own output doesn't contain those style vox.

I do own C is for Cookie on vinyl, as well as a bunch of rare (and now expensive) death and black metal records.
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Old 09-04-2010, 09:52 AM   #59
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yea down around the gulf coast they have metal/ hard rock channels O'Plenty its refreshing. No cookie metal though. Classic metal, and godsmack, A7F kind of stuff.

I liked the oooo big scary metal vocals, and oh look at me Im mean and scary n' stuff when i was younger.

In N.w. europe I hear its big but who knows. To each his own.

By the way spent thursday night 9/2 with Disturbed, Avenged 7 Fold, Stone sour and Hell yea.

A promo friend of mine invited me and my GF to a barbecue. They were all there andabout 75 other folks. Thats it. It was a barbecue before their show at the verizon center this weekend. Then Vinnie Paul had the great Idea to go to the state fair at 11 P.M. So we all went and it was deserted so Mainly the bands and guest rode rides and game with no mobs or interference.

It was great. My daughter at Georgia Tech was flipping out. Avenged is one of here fav band. Got her some signed stuff and pics/ vids from the fair and sent them to her phone while she was at the Georgia Tech game.

Ill post them later it was a reall good time, good food and all growed up and shit.

The best is the vids of Hell Yea riding the pink kiddy coaster and us playing pop the ballons for prizes. Tried to get Vinnie Paul on the free fall but he wouldnt, go figure. said hes to old HA!

Also got some limited signed stuff for my tracking engineers son. Now Ive got a free lawn boy for life.
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Old 09-05-2010, 04:37 PM   #60
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foregoing using the 1960 Lead cabinet for now (Urban living... tragedy)

How would one go about this using just the head and IR? Is it effective for heavy guitar? Head's an AVT150H. Not all tube, not all SS. Has all the usual i/o.
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Old 09-05-2010, 05:57 PM   #61
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There is an interaction between mic an cab at high volumes. What you want is to capture the speaker excursion of the the cabinet. That sound only comes when your moving air with the cones.

Try even a small shitty amp with a mic of choice, turn up the amp until you see the cone start to move really well. Try it with the gain on around 4-5 for starters eq the amp to taste, then eq with mic placement on the speaker for flavor. If your uncomfortable with a naked tone (lower gain than your use to) then monitor it in the headphone and put a gain plug-in on the track while tracking, then remove it at the mix stage. Or use a Morley x-y and record the split signal DI then reamp.
Ive heard really good emulations and IR's. But I can always tell when its an emulation.

Speakers, Cones moving air. The smaller the amp the less air it has to move, the closer the mic can be to it and the less youll piss of neighbors. Throw it in a closet full of cloths and surround it with sofa cusions if you have to.

I was reamping a part today with a Vox AD100vt XL , but the channel vol on 7, gain on 3.5 and the master on 5. Not very loud but in the quiet of the tracking room and the right mic placement it sounded enormous.

Forget name brands and the ooooweeee gotta have it cause I seen it in the guitar player magazine, 5150, Marshall mfgx, Mesa double triple stack quarter pounder with cheese, ubershall scoobydooberhsall amps. Good technique and mic placement are everything. I can make a track sound better on a shit solid state marshall g12 than most folks ive had come in with these amps can on a 3000$ rig. Thats why I always get the DI split before it hits the amp, when they leave I reamp through the amp of my choice with my settings then no prob. By the way the odd ball Marshall JTM 60 is one of the heaviest sounding amps Ive heard. Its essentially a JCM 600 in a combo. Blusey as hell untill you push it and dry patch the parallel send/return. Then this thing ROARS and GROWLS. Im not talking in the sense of overall volume either. Most folks want huge guitars. Huge and Loud are to completely different things.

95% of my time tracking heavy guitars is getting the stupid fuck, that thinks they only have to tune before the trackin session, to tune after every f'in take! THe other is getting the amp sounding right by it self, then last getting the mic placement just right. After anywere between 30min to a couple of hours of all that crap, Then I can worry about the 3-5 minutes of actual guitar playing going on.

And the Vox you mentioned is very well suited for heavy guitar. Find, borrow, steal a cab 1x12, 2x12 dont over eq the amp, it sounds Shit loads better with the EQ in the FX snd/rtn, NOT on the guitar cord before the amp pre. And no shit about 1/3 the gain your use to. Ex: if you normally have the gain on 8 put it on 2.5 It will hurt your pride at worst but when you can work a set of strings naked then if will sound killer. And make your playing leaps and bounds better than all the high gain shreaders. Gain is like cruise control or power steering makes it alot less work doesnt it? Makes us lazy. Try it and remember less gain, more control, less noise, less mad neighbors, and a decent sound.

If you must use IR's the same inverse gain rule applies but even more so.

On the Vox stuf take the line out to a line in on your interface with no IR at all.Their line outs have cab emulation built in so you would be IR'ing an IR(on the combos anyway, i cant remember if the heads do or not). If you use an IR then u come out of pre side on the FX send on the back straight to the line in on the interface the put an IR on it. Watch the input volume, too much your back to small and thin, too little and no definition.

IF your tracking and dont have a LARGE room to track in then dont bother the volume, combfiltering and room nodes will comopletely slaughter the Stack tone. Look at the recording/studio marshalls at sweetwater or something. NOtice they are all combos and EXTREMELY expensive. There is a reason for that.
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Old 09-05-2010, 06:34 PM   #62
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Thanks for the tips, I'll put them to practice and see what I can come up with. Working around the day job..

I've always been a live player so that's where I'm coming from.
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:02 PM   #63
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I hear ya.

Mine, my clients, my friends live rigs and settings are gorgeous live but in the tracking room 9 out of 10 sound like shit. Especially with bass rigs.

Try this when tracking guitar forget all the shit you know or have heard, only go for what sounds good, no matter what the knobs say. And when youve exhausted your efforts try doing the opposite of what your intuition tells ya.

Cheers
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:42 AM   #64
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You don't really need to compress distorted guitar; distortion IS compression.
I use a multiband compressor on occasion, but a standard compressor isn't going to do much good, and probably will do bad.
Ah....distorted guitars dont really need compression in terms of transient shaping (the way an acoustic does) BUT they DO need compression in terms of leveling/fader riding within the context of the song.

Take an example of a song with a verse where both guitars are doing the chugga chugga thing locked in with drums and bass. Then in the pre-chorus, one of them plays a short riff of single notes. That will most likely get lost in the mix all other things being equal.

One reason I like double/quad tracking heavy guitars is because it tends to level those kind of things out in a nicer way (dunno why it does but it does).

-------------------

Someone else asked about how to set the sounds for the different guitars in terms of double-tracking etc.

I've found that what works best for me as far as getting the raw tracks into the DAW (not later processing) is set the sound I like on the amp for my guitar the way I'd normally play it (bridge pickup). Record the 1st track. Then simply switch to the neck pickup leaving all other settings intact and record the 2nd track. Then get a different guitar and do the same leaving the amp settings intact.

Might be a completely silly thing to do but it works for me. Maybe the same settings on the amp help in keeping it cohesive.. (consistent phase smear in the amp EQ across all four tracks perhaps? no idea...)
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Old 09-06-2010, 08:26 AM   #65
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I know this is somewhat of a preferential thing, but do you track guitar in mono? Seems simpler that way. There are several schools of panning, as well. Confusing.
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Old 09-06-2010, 08:30 AM   #66
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Also, on a comnpletely random note since a few were mentioned, my personal go-to amp-sim plugin for heavy guitars is Hughes & Kettner's Warp VST.

Anything else I've tried (amplitube, guitar rig etc.) does not seem right to me for high gain sounds.
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Old 09-06-2010, 08:33 AM   #67
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Ah....distorted guitars dont really need compression in terms of transient shaping (the way an acoustic does) I've found that what works best for me as far as getting the raw tracks into the DAW (not later processing) is set the sound I like on the amp for my guitar the way I'd normally play it (bridge pickup). Record the 1st track. Then simply switch to the neck pickup leaving all other settings intact and record the 2nd track. Then get a different guitar and do the same leaving the amp settings intact.

Might be a completely silly thing to do but it works for me. Maybe the same settings on the amp help in keeping it cohesive.. (consistent phase smear in the amp EQ across all four tracks perhaps? no idea...)
Na not silly pretty much standard with some applications. Its all subjective and up to the person behind it.

Some of the bigger sounding guitars ive heard are on the first couple of Godsmack releases. Cameron Webb just single tracked Tony Rombola then duplicated the track and put about 15ms of delay on the left channel.(Ithink it was the left anyway) and that was it. Sounded good. So yea theres always more than one way to skin a cat.
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:23 AM   #68
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Ah....distorted guitars dont really need compression in terms of transient shaping (the way an acoustic does) BUT they DO need compression in terms of leveling/fader riding within the context of the song.
Ah, see, that's where we differ; I prefer automation for that kind of thing.

re: Tony Rombola: I can see how that would work for Godsmack; his guitar parts are the epitome of simple goodness. But IMHO, technical death metal needs double-tracked guitars, at least.
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:41 AM   #69
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Ah, see, that's where we differ; I prefer automation for that kind of thing.

re: Tony Rombola: I can see how that would work for Godsmack; his guitar parts are the epitome of simple goodness. But IMHO, technical death metal needs double-tracked guitars, at least.
So do I but technically it's still what you'd call "compression" (the gremlin that controls the volume knob? :P)
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:52 AM   #70
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So do I but technically it's still what you'd call "compression" (the gremlin that controls the volume knob? :P)
Are you calling me a gremlin?!?
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Old 09-06-2010, 11:13 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by DuraMorte View Post
Are you calling me a gremlin?!?
no...the gremlin is the automation system

unless you do all the fader riding by hand...which I doubt is the case in a DAW forum
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Old 09-06-2010, 11:22 AM   #72
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no...the gremlin is the automation system
unless you do all the fader riding by hand...which I doubt is the case in a DAW forum
Either way you do it, whatever works for you. We're kinda getting OT.

Are you familiar with Peavey's ReValver III? It's awesome; you can get excellent 6505 sounds, and the built-in IR loader is pretty boss too.
I've never tried Warp; I'll look it up.
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Old 09-06-2010, 11:32 AM   #73
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Either way you do it, whatever works for you. We're kinda getting OT.

Are you familiar with Peavey's ReValver III? It's awesome; you can get excellent 6505 sounds, and the built-in IR loader is pretty boss too.
I've never tried Warp; I'll look it up.
I've used Revalver a long while back....didnt care for it very much. Can't say I've heard the later versions so I might check it out.

Warp was released by steinberg a while back and it's based on Hughes & Kettner's modeling technology. It has a Roland JC sim, a plexi and a modern hi-gain sim along with 3 cabs to choose from. It's VERY simple but the hi-gain sounds are lovely in a mix context. Kind of a one trick pony but i like it...
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Old 09-06-2010, 11:37 AM   #74
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I've used Revalver a long while back....didnt care for it very much. Can't say I've heard the later versions so I might check it out. Warp was released by steinberg a while back and it's based on Hughes & Kettner's modeling technology. It has a Roland JC sim, a plexi and a modern hi-gain sim along with 3 cabs to choose from. It's VERY simple but the hi-gain sounds are lovely in a mix context. Kind of a one trick pony but i like it...
Revalver III has a built-in VST loader, so you can load any VST ampsim into it and have your sim and IR in one plug; no constant switching back and forth.
Pretty handy.
Also, AcmeBarGig's Shred has a dual-IR loader; you can blend two different IR's in any proportion and manner desired. The head sims sound pretty good too. And it's free to try.
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Old 09-06-2010, 11:43 AM   #75
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no...the gremlin is the automation system
I've been called a lot of things, but this one is new to me
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:49 PM   #76
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I've put some of these tips in action, and I must say I'm totally floored by the difference between DI to a VST amp and using my real live Head into Cab IRs. It's like night and day. Muddy murk and crystal steps. I am converted!

I've got much more exploring to do with the various IRs. Just for fun, the one I auditioned was for a 1960 cab. I wanted to see if my head and the IR for the cab I own would sound on the mark. It's not quite exactly the same, but it is definitely leaps and bounds ahead of what the VST bundles call a 1960 cab. This was using the demo bits from ReCabiNet. I tried the freebie cab from Red Wirez too, and that also sounded good but inexplicably I liked ReCab more. Only one test though, quick set up. I can see I've got more work to do in this dept.
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:54 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by cdavis6406 View Post
Also

And yea if the gain is wide ass open it going to be fizzy. Especially if your multi tracking guitars. The more gain on an amp the smaller and thinner the guitar sound, especially when it hits the mix. And the more passes the smaller and smaller it gets.

I know so and so uses a triple rect on 11, gain on 11 but trust me when it hit the mix engineers desk they had to really work at undoing alot of that "ideal tone".
Interestingly, I recently had a pretty good example of this on the Axe-Fx forum. I posted a patch, asking for contributors to make it a better tracking patch. Two guys sent me their modified version but one guy sent me a patch that does have a lot more gain. I decided to do a small clip with each contributions, using a song by Death Angel as a reference.

Basically, the clip has this structure:

Death Angel clip, alone
5 short clips, each patches soloed
5 Death Angel clip background with one patch, same order as previous 5

As you will notice, the patch with the most gain is the one getting completely lost with the background track.

Here's the clip: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9615882

And here's the thread on the AFX forum if you want the context:

http://www.fractalaudio.com/forum/vi...p?f=25&t=19814
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:58 PM   #78
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ah, serendipity...

I was about to ask a very similar question about "heavy guitar sound" when i noticed this thread got bumped. I looked up the Podfarm plugin that AdamWathan mentioned, and found it on Amazon for $40(us) - placing an order now

will try the other (free) techniques mentioned, and go read the WYRSLA thread again....

thanks all!
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:07 PM   #79
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ah, serendipity...

I was about to ask a very similar question about "heavy guitar sound" when i noticed this thread got bumped. I looked up the Podfarm plugin that AdamWathan mentioned, and found it on Amazon for $40(us) - placing an order now

will try the other (free) techniques mentioned, and go read the WYRSLA thread again....

thanks all!
You can buy an amp at the pawn shop for 40$. If you have at least a 57 and a pre, youll like yourself in the morning.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:25 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Deltones View Post
Interestingly, I recently had a pretty good example of this on the Axe-Fx forum. I posted a patch, asking for contributors to make it a better tracking patch. Two guys sent me their modified version but one guy sent me a patch that does have a lot more gain. I decided to do a small clip with each contributions, using a song by Death Angel as a reference.

Basically, the clip has this structure:

Death Angel clip, alone
5 short clips, each patches soloed
5 Death Angel clip background with one patch, same order as previous 5

As you will notice, the patch with the most gain is the one getting completely lost with the background track.

Here's the clip: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9615882

And here's the thread on the AFX forum if you want the context:

http://www.fractalaudio.com/forum/vi...p?f=25&t=19814
This is true, gain, tube gain, transformer saturation, etc., all rectify a perfiectly good wave. In inverse. More gain the more the tops of the wave are sawed off. Hence, surburban cores post earlier. And Techniqe. A lot of fader riding ,compression as some prefer,on the take isnt a problem when Im tracking someone thats a good player. Guitarist, drummers, and so forth that now the deal when it comes to tracking are a rare gift. They play consistant, methodically with out losing the feel. Their dynamics are part of the song and they place it automatically where it goes. This beats the usual reason, they play like they are on stage, and thinking,"How do I look while I play this". Kidding..

Anyway yea if ya lay off the gain the notes will have an actual transient, wow! Thats something that compresson and limiters are actually designed to handle. Not 4:00 minutes of one large blocked waveform of sizzle, mmmmm...
Then when you do thi voodoo to it in the mix the guitars actually become punchy, clear, and cut through a dense mix, they eq out a shit load better, and their placment in the stereo field and coherance are waayyyyy more detailed. It sounds good.

Not knocking sim plugins, they have their place, and used in the right spot are quick and simple, Clean stuff, some solo's, composing, practicing and I enjoy AmpSVX on the bass(wont track it anyother way). Even with those the same gain rule is in affect. But more so. And one more gain stage in the signal chain to work with. The DI stage. Get this one right or your not using your plugs to about half their potential.
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