Old 02-02-2010, 05:39 PM   #161
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...In my humble experience that almost always results in bands that don't sound cohesive, they sound like several musicians playing at once to their own "perfect grid", none of which line up musically...
Great post all around.

Note that it's not strictly necessary for all the musicians to be playing with the exact same swing, nor that they are all "landing" on exactly the same microsecond (good bass players in particular will often anticipate or delay notes slightly to get a certain swell or emphasis in relation to the drum hits).

What matters is that everyone knows where the beat *IS*. Maybe the guitar player is playing funky up-beat chord stabs, and slightly dragging the beat to increase the sense of syncopated funk-accent. But if she's going to achieve that effectively, she needs to know where the up-beat is. Or maybe she's playing a pounding metal riff that rushes the best slightly to hype up the excitement. She still needs to know what kind of beat she's rushing.

Back in the olden days of the mid-90s, I and my college-rock cohorts used to call this kind of thing "tight", exemplified by jazz-influenced, artistically ambitious punk rock bands from the era such as NoMeansNo. This was in particular contrast to looser, "sloppier" hippie/blues rock.

Not everyone needs to play Nomeansno-style songs with difficult and shifting time signatures, long rests punctuated by sharp accents, and complex polyrythms, but there is a big difference between hearing a record that sounds "tight" and one that sounds sloppy, especially in these post-DAW days where radio records are ruthlessly corrected and tweaked. A real band actually playing the notes they mean to, when they mean to, always sounds better than studio-constructed timing.
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Old 02-02-2010, 06:17 PM   #162
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Great post all around.

Note that it's not strictly necessary for all the musicians to be playing with the exact same swing, nor that they are all "landing" on exactly the same microsecond (good bass players in particular will often anticipate or delay notes slightly to get a certain swell or emphasis in relation to the drum hits).
Amen... For example the bass guitar notes that "blooom" off of the kick. Definately agree with all of this.

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Old 02-02-2010, 09:57 PM   #163
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No, not everyone should try to be as awesome as Nomeansno, but we should all strive for the same passion and conviction.

Nomeansno........yep, your f'n rad.
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:43 AM   #164
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A Q on a different direction: how would you produce a project (album) that has highly varying tracks + recordings? Typical band recordings feature same drumkit/drums/guitars/mics throughout the record so it's easier to get a consistent mix and coherent master.

I am planning to embark on a project where each track will be an experiment. No wait, more like the other way around... I am planning to embark on an experiment with different instruments, sounds, recording on different setups/studios etc... and then hopefully put something together out of the best of the results.

Before I start going there, what would be good to know? And how could that work out with an acceptable (if not good) sonic result? (as well as marketing it and labeling it for a target audience).

Thanks
It's a challenge, believe me! I'm still learning how to do it. The best advice I have is to mix every track as a standalone entity, and rely on mastering and track order to provide coherence. Track order matters a lot, not so much for shifting sounds as shifting moods. Last year, I produced an album for one of my bands that was really a collection of everything we'd done over the course of about a year and a half, which covered my own studio skills changing radically on top of a key personnel change, and the fact that we play an almost absurd number of different instruments. We called the album Garbage Pizza. In hindsight, my feelings on it are pretty mixed.

Right now, I'm putting together a self-produced demo album for the same band, basically a preview of albums we have coming out this summer and for xmas (we're doing a Christmas album, because we're silly that way). Since this is almost a throwaway on limited time and budget, I'm self-mastering too. This has consisted of master/listen/remix/remaster, and I'm on the third iteration now. It's finally starting to sound as coherent as I'd like (not to mention about a bazillion times better than our first album).

So here's what we're up for track-wise...

Track 1: synth, female vocal, acoustic guitar (punchy), electric guitar (fuzzy 1960s psych vibe), string bass (see my complaints elsewhere about mixing this!), shaker

Track 2: gruff male vocal, distorted and close-echoed electric guitar (recorded in a bathroom, loud, not close-miked), hand drum, cowbell. No bass instruments! Very punk, goofy groove.

Track 3: old-school jazz - brushed drums, banjo, jazz guitar, accordion, female crooner vocal, string bass

Track 4: intense groove with a sort of gypsy feel, doumbek + cowbell + acoustic guitar driving the interlocking rhythm. Female vocals + wild electric guitar floating on top.

Track 5: acoustic guitar, accordion, male vocal, male electronically processed (old radio sound) vocal, female vocal. Acoustic guitar carries the rhythmic groove.

Track 6: Caribbean feel, acoustic guitar, ukelele, djembe, whistle, female vocal

Track 7: Live recording, band near-collapsed on a song partly improvised, bad raw mix that we can't fix.

Yeah, this is a MESS to master. Tracks 2 and 4 have a somewhat similar groove and feel. What I found is that I can't master tracks just to sound their best on their own... the overall effect is very disruptive. Instead, I'm mastering each song with the goal of smoothing the transition from the previous song. Ozone has been a lifesaver here!

It really helps to have an iterative process too, making a cd, listening to it, fixing it. Make sure you listen on LOTS of different devices and environments. But I'm almost happier with this than I would be with professional mastering.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:22 AM   #165
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Yep First Year Collection

This is the entire collection of the threads "Why do your recordings sound like ass?" & "Producing Yourself" Threads by yep.

This collection covers 12-02-2008 to 12-24-2009 and includes all the graphics & miscellaneous stuff. This is only yep's parts, not the entire thread!

"Why do your recordings sound like ass?" - 316 Page PDF

"Producing Yourself" - 37 Page PDF

I will not be adding to this one & will start a new one for the new year.

Enjoy!
Hi guys, I'm having no luck with this link. Is this still all available in pdf form or did I miss a meeting?

Cheers,
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:42 AM   #166
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off you go

uploaded here

http://www.divshare.com/download/10782613-45a
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:40 AM   #167
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Awesome! Thank you

(and thanks to Yep for writing it all in the first place. It's all good stuff.)
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Old 03-19-2010, 02:22 PM   #168
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Hm...I wonder what happened to it?

Thanks sweetbutt for the re-post!
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:18 PM   #169
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New yep Folder is up!

Enjoy!
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:55 AM   #170
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New Yep File is up!

You can grab it from HERE!
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Old 09-02-2010, 08:15 AM   #171
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Bump

I sort of missed this companion thread to the BIG one. A lot of production themed threads have surfaced recently, so I thought I'd bring this one back to the front page.
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:17 AM   #172
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Great stuff.

One thing at a time , that's my motto.
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Old 09-05-2010, 11:07 AM   #173
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Yep, your name is perfect. When I read your posts I keep saying "yep... yep..." over and over again. Thanks for the awesomeness and the great reading
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:46 AM   #174
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Who was it that spent so long trying to nail his guitar solo to his standards that his engineer quit? If someone knows the story better than I do, would they mind sharing it?

I feel like there's something worth considering there. Not necessarily a lesson, but I think it's an example of finished vs. perfect.
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:29 PM   #175
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I THINK is was Jeff Beck on "Blow by Blow"....but don't hold me to this!
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:32 AM   #176
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New YEP Folder is up! Updated to 9-23-10

This includes DOC & RTF file formats along with the PDF of the "Why do your recordings sound like ass?" thread for those who are using this on their portable readers. Please let me know if this works for you!

This also includes the "Producing Yourself" & thoughts on Acoustics threads, and the First Year folder zipped.

Enjoy!
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:41 AM   #177
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Hi everybody,

I found this tread few days ago and must say, absolutely fantastic!!! Couldn’t stop reading since. The last time this happened to me was when a friend of mine hyped me to the new Battle Star Galactica (big time hesitation at first, but ended up watching the whole thing in one breath).

Yep, thank you very much for sharing your experience and knowledge, openly and consistently. This is really refreshing!


Now my question, if I dare, since it is my first post.

Yep, can you tell us about 3D mixing techniques, such as panning outside the stereo field (as an example) or psychoacoustic tricks that can be used to enhance the 3D feel in a song.

The link below will illustrate better than my words:

http://gprime.net/flash.php/soundimmersion

Thank you so much!
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Old 12-21-2010, 03:18 PM   #178
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Default Hello!

Sorry, I meant to post in "Why do your recordings........" I didn't start reading this tread yet, sure its great.

Cheers!!!
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Old 12-25-2010, 04:08 PM   #179
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Default Yep, The 2nd Year Collection, Is Now Up!

You can go HERE and grab the zip file. This covers from 12-24-2009, post #1126, to 12-25-2010 post # 1687 in both RTF & PDF formats.

This folder also includes.....

Producing yourself-- WDYRSLA spin off 2 - Stopped 3-28-10 at post #161

and

Yep's Room Acoustic Thoughts - Stopped 9-23-2010 post #76.

Again, a HUGE Thank You to yep & everyone who has posted in the threads, I have learned a lot from ya all!

Merry Christmas!
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Old 12-26-2010, 07:18 AM   #180
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Hmmm... I thought producers are actually playing the bass on recordings before the band found a bass player for later live performance...

prioritization:

The first idea which crossed my mind reading this word was: From the 20 song ideas of a particular band pick the 10 to 12 best for the album and "eliminate" the others - to not waste time and money.

Not at all an easy job for a self-producer. On the other hand professionel photographers are very much used to that procedure. They are throwing away 99% of their photographs and publish just the rest meaning the best.
He is, but on the road he is also the one who gives your drummer his trademark sunglasses which give him the extra swagger he needed to sweep the lead singer's girl after he dumps her.

Good stuff guys. Been eating it up like candy. I'll be teaching this stuff for years to anyone and everyone that comes to me for audio advice.
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:43 PM   #181
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That's another great thread right there. Thanks!
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Old 02-04-2011, 09:16 PM   #182
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A question at KVR

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewto...413865#4413865

led a search to this:

http://ryuc.info/common/creation_pro..._of_intent.htm

Hope it helps
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:04 PM   #183
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Lawrence shared some production insights in another thread: some dont's.
Check it here

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=75124
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:23 PM   #184
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When a singer doesn't realize that he's not very good, it's usually a combination of people not telling him, and him not being receptive or open to the notion. There are a lot of musicians where you can tell them exactly what they're doing wrong, and exactly how to fix it, and they just brush it off with a "oh, that's the sound I'm going for" or whatever (really? you're going for the sound of a loose bridge saddle?).

Those are the kind of people most likely to get self-reinforcing feedback. They go around telling people how their stuff has an early Beatles sound and saying "hear how I went for that McCartney-esque bassline?" and people nod their heads and tell them how they hear the McCartney-esque bassline and how they hear the early Beatles vibe. And if someone ever mentions that the vocals sound a little... I don't know...off?... The reply is that they're hearing a "parallel thirds" harmony or whatever (what they're really hearing is a sound like dying geese, but our new early Beatles are not seeking advice-- that's the sound they're going for, after all).
LOL! You said this perfectly! In music school there were so many examples of this it was ridiculous. I literally laughed my ass off when I read the dying geese line. I've spent the last 8 hours reading this and WYRSLA thread. I am incredibly impressed with your charismatic, clear, and concise delivery. Thank you so much yep!
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:26 AM   #185
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The producer is a sort of "project manager" for your album. The producer plans the whole project, budgets time and money, keeps everyone focused and productive, and makes sure that the thing actually gets done more or less the way it was meant to be done.

I can hear the outcry now: "What a racket! These people actually get paid more than the artists for doing THAT?!? Who needs 'em? Why won't the record company just let US keep the money and buy a calendar and write up a f'n schedule ourselves?!?"

Answer?... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Democracy
This is the funniest thing I've read all year!

Any time I start to overly obessess, nit-pick, and generally get off track with the home-recording of my "album," I just think of this post and laugh.

Thank you.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:17 PM   #186
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Oh, a whole other thread to explore, and perhaps more in need than the procedures of recording...I was particularly taken with this...

Quote:
It's not that the gear and the production value don't matter, it's that the quality of the recording is usually not nearly as important as having a vision worth recording in the first place.
I think a lot of home recordists don't consider the importance of this, or have unrealistic hopes that the 'production technology' will bail them out in some way.

I look forward to reading this thread in more detail as I have time, thanks again for your contributions and raising such important issues.

here is another 'what is a producer' article that might be of interest...

http://productionadvice.co.uk/what-is-a-producer/
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Old 09-03-2011, 11:42 AM   #187
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Bump. GREAT thread, will write a few questions when I get home.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:37 PM   #188
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Bump. GREAT thread, will write a few questions when I get home.
Almost two years later; did you ever make it home?
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Old 06-22-2013, 03:06 AM   #189
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I reckon yep may be doing almost as much for creative recording as REAPER itself with these posts... is it a coincidence that he is posting here?
(Sorry to talk about you in the third person, yep. But please don't stop!)
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:20 AM   #190
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I record everything myself, overdubbing to record the audio and program the MIDI. (...) I get bleed from the guitar into the vocal mic so that correcting vocals becomes difficult/impossible. (...)
All advice appreciated!
Please DON'T! DON'T flood the web with fake drums, everything overdubbed, programmed etc. It's boring like a porn movie script and generally sucks.

I know how funny is playing with Reaper and do it in your bedroom 24 hours daily away. But PLEASE DON'T post it anywhere.

If you don't have a band, pay for the musicians and record at least drums, bass and rhythm guitar all together (and let it bleed -- it will help to prevent your hands off any editing). Then post it. 100% amateur and 95% pros are not able to reproduce real band's performance with overdubbing critical parts.

Unless you're a genius singer that keeps audience interested even singing along bare click track. If you're not -- you just make finding anything interesting more and more difficult.

And yes -- I commited the sin too. Never more.

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