Old 05-31-2019, 05:26 AM   #1
anthraxsnax
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Default List of features from other daws

I've messed with stuff in the past, and currently decided to pick up Cubase again since it was on sale - because there are features that I would definitely like in reaper(or to be brought up to that level) in just about any daw I've tried.

So far some SWS extensions do attempt to recreate these features - but rarely match the elegance/power/usability completely. So I figured I'd try to jot down things I think of and update this, if anything as a quest to find alternatives within reaper.

1.) expression maps. I know a few people(and Tack) are working on replacements for this - but it's a powerful tool, and keeps midi data looking clean while being pretty bugless when switching around between midi channels(no note hangs, proper cc thru ect) Reaticulate takes some effort to get going, and while program changes are a good work around - I find the actual expression map lane in Cubase is much easier to read/work with then little yard post program changes. Mad Props to Jason's work on this.

2.) Time/Tempo manipulation(especially midi). Again, there are various forms of extensions to try to accomplish some of this - but it's another thing I'm noticing Cubase manages to knock out of the park(not suprising given it's strength in working with video) Reaper seems to have better features for audio than midi here. Infact I don't know of any daw that has good midi warping features at all. There's no reason the possibility of putting an edit marker and dragging it to line up with a beat isn't possible, stretching the midi data between points. As it stands, if I record in a performance using a VI, if I quantize notes, the CC data is not preserved in a musical way - so you're stuck hand re-creating the curves or retracking the CC to a quantized part(which is not as musical inherently as a complete performance)

3.) A good step sequencer/view. I'm not musically illiterate - but sometimes setting an in-lane step sequencer at x quantize value speeds up workflow dramatically. Almost every form of music uses percussion of some form, and would make life much easier. Alternatives are clunky and simply not as intuitive or as useful as something as simple as what FL studio had over a decade ago. I know sonar had this feature that worked great, and there is no reason a step sequencer(something that's been a part of hardware for a long time too) can't be integrated into the DAW.

4. Midi scaling/editing. Cubase is pretty far ahead on this front, again - there are some SWS extensions that try to replicate some of these functions, but none of them are going to be as easy to work with/intuitive/well implemented as cubase's core functionality on this one. Having the dots around the item where you can simply click and drag to compress/expand/slant/raise/lower without remembering 5001 custom key commands for SWS scripts is a huge QoL improvement. Again, massive shout out for SWS/reaper users for creating work arounds - but this can be implemented even better as a core feature.

5. Rapidly writing music using the score editor still feels clunky and akward. I know this is kind of a "can you be more specific" but honestly - some of it comes down to small things that build up. like changing note value doesn't change grid value or where the cursor is for the next note. Sometimes intended behavior of the editor might be consistent across all views, but this isn't always the most intuitive - and atleast having the option for the logic behind the ui behavior changing based on which editor you are using would help. If someone is scoring out a part, and they write 4 quarter notes and a whole note, they *probably* didn't intend to enter the next note on the 2nd beat of the 2nd measure, in the middle of the whole note. They might mean it - but it's much more logical to simply input a quarter note that ties in that situation. Like wise, if you enter 3 quarter notes and 1 16th note, theres a much higher change that the next note is going to be a 16th note, rather than an 8th(else it's an 8th staccato) or even worse, a quarter note.

These things WILL happen, and someone might actually think that way - but I would wager most don't, and this is where a few options go a long way.

All that said, I guess in closing - the main thing that I think might not be a huge part of reaper - and to an extent the culture it and the community has created, has a habit of being barebones and letting the extensions be extensions... however sometimes I feel like the only way for reaper to grow is to do what blizzard entertainment used to do with it's own addon system, and when something was extremely popular/useful it would turn around and build it into the game(ideally in a better implementation).

I think the space for extensions is important, but there comes a point when something like SWS is so standard - it should be bolstered and incorporated on key elements that can be improved where the extension capacities are hindering the concept implementation.
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Old 05-31-2019, 05:44 AM   #2
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2. You know you can timestretch items from both sides after you split them and alt+drag across the split? Also tempo mapping is definitely possible now even without SWS (check out mouse modifiers for Project tempo/timesignature marker). However Breeder's solution in SWS is pretty much perfect IMHO.

4. You need to check out juliansader's scripts, they do more things than Cubase ever will, really.
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Old 06-01-2019, 03:55 AM   #3
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As it stands, if I record in a performance using a VI, if I quantize notes, the CC data is not preserved in a musical way - so you're stuck hand re-creating the curves or retracking the CC to a quantized part(which is not as musical inherently as a complete performance)
The CC quantize problem should have been solved in v5.974: "+ MIDI: obey editor toolbar preference for CC following notes when quantizing notes only [t=172470]"
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:38 AM   #4
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100% agree with all of these, barring expression maps which I have 0 experience with on so I have no opinion here.

Particularly, I do miss using Cubase MIDI manipulation. I have the scripts for stretching etc, but I prefer working with this using the mouse which Cubase does by generating a box around the selected MIDI events and handles etc. Very intuitive, visual, and makes use of ctrl + shift key if I recall. Only used it for a few class projects. This prompted me to get the scripts in the first place. It's the next thing I would like to see in the MIDI editor, but right now they are working on the envelope lanes which I also approve of so let them finish that first.

As for the notation editor, I am still not using it but I do check out the new features when they come out. I certainly find it hard to work with compared to dedicated tools (I use Dorico) but I understand there is a LOT of edge cases to cover here. I'm biased there, but I have used Finale, Sibelius, MuseScore, and Dorico and Dorico for me really nails the shortcut + mouse workflow particularly.

Considering what Reaper can already do in Notation, the progress has been very fast. But I agree that the user interaction with it might be improved before covering abilities to present information, which though important, has a diminishing return on overall user experience.

The progress this last few years is so inspiring.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:18 AM   #5
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Julian's scripts are exactly why my original stance exists, and why I said exactly what I said in the first place.

1.) as great as js' scripts are, they aren't going to do the job all the way - in a manner that makes sense. Could he continue working on them until his scripts get closer to ideal functionality? sure. JS's scripts do not do "more than Cubase ever will really" because I can already do this with cubase' midi editor that I cannot do with reaper, JS's scripts or not - and most of JS's scripts are directly on the ui, instead of having to find 9872398723 keybinding slots to replace a few dots on a selection.

2.) julian brings up the point I'm trying to make - its a bunch of piece meal fixes that don't culminate to a complete tool. Julian's scripts have half the functionality that is useful - and then reaper adds a feature to provide another half of the logic behind it, but the two don't meet - and you can't realign a complete midi performance with the grid.

Julian's scripts?
you can warp the notes/lengths to the grid, CC doesn't follow. You can warp a CC, other CC's and actual notes don't follow. Sometimes a performance is 2-3 CC's and no matter how you go about it, you're going to disjoint the original performance and be stuck trying to realign all the CC's.

If all midi items warped together? sure. But they don't, and as far as I know - there is no option to make this happen.


Core Reaper?
you can record a performance to a metronome, hope it quantizes favorably - then you need to re-adjust note on's to trigger legato in time, and you guessed it, the CC doesn't follow.

Warp grid functionality with actual instruments?

I can play my guitar into my interface and no matter how off the grid I am, I can simply use stretch markers to line it up, preserving the exact dynamic/textures each note originally had.



=======================================
side note, this could ALSO be fixed if reaper's time base worked in a way that made sense. How it COULD work:

record performance naturally, with no metronome.

set midi item to time base(currently midi doesn't even do this, you have to ignore project tempo)

use warp grid to line up the measures with the performance

set midi item back to measure/beat based

delete the tempo changes(and it should stretch and warp the original midi performance to the grid)



however it doesn't actually work. Another thing that other DAWs can actually do.

Again, this isn't a dig at reaper, it's just that it's community is so stubborn at times that they get stuck into thinking reaper can fix anything with external scripts, and it's reached a point that people refuse to understand that extensions(while great) don't always get the job done. The exact analogy I gave was World of Warcraft, because it had a long history of adopting extremely well made addons and making better versions of them built into the game.

All these jokes about what they'll add to reaper 6, there is still hundreds of little things that other daws do better - and reaper is reaching a point where people keep thinking that extensions solve everything, when in reality some things just need to be implemented internally to be most effective. And I basically predicted I'd get suggested JS's scripts, despite it actually being one of the examples of where extensions don't always cut it. And the reason I didn't bring his scripts into this, is that I in no way intend to bash his script for "not being good enough", only that it's a feature that can and should be implemented in a stronger manner within the DAW itself.

Hope this helps clarify what I mean by improving.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:58 AM   #6
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I wouldn't expect that ALL the things extensions are doing will ever be implemented natively. That would defeat the point of having all the extension facilities in the first place.

But here, from the actual head honcho:

https://askjf.com/index.php?q=3438s

Now would they deem it worthy to implement these MIDI modifiers is entirely up to them. Justin is not a heavy MIDI user, so schwa is our hope, however faint.


As far as I am following the situation with Julian's scripts and his extension API, in due time he'll be able to do the bounding box transform thing that Cubase and S1 have. Sexan has the same thing working for area selection, in fact.
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Old 06-03-2019, 05:40 AM   #7
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I wouldn't expect that ALL the things extensions are doing will ever be implemented natively. That would defeat the point of having all the extension facilities in the first place.

But here, from the actual head honcho:

https://askjf.com/index.php?q=3438s

Now would they deem it worthy to implement these MIDI modifiers is entirely up to them. Justin is not a heavy MIDI user, so schwa is our hope, however faint.


As far as I am following the situation with Julian's scripts and his extension API, in due time he'll be able to do the bounding box transform thing that Cubase and S1 have. Sexan has the same thing working for area selection, in fact.
Which is cool, don't get me wrong... and that's why it's a hard balance of taking the good without gutting it completely - because anything that is 100% it's best version doesn't need to be core, inorder to keep the incentive for people to create the extensions.

likewise, my friend who records punk rock doesn't need all these scripts bogging his reaper down.

that said, some things(like the midi time base issue) are built directly into the engine.

So I prepared a short demonstration(the actual demonstration is only a few minutes, but I ramble a little and show how easy it is to adjust after the fact)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGF8e690UrQ

changing midi time base doesn't do anything, unless you tell it to ignore project tempo, and then it's stuck in it's original form.

In this case I can record an idea, align a grid to it, delete the tempo changes and I'm done. I can push notes forward/backwards easily to mold the phrase, I can even change eight notes to whole notes if I want and it'll keep the cc in tact.
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Old 06-03-2019, 05:47 AM   #8
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Oh, it's you, Kyle! Good to see you here.

Regarding the timebase thing, here's explanation from the horse's mouth:

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...3&postcount=25

SWS extensions have these usefu actions which you'd want to use when warping MIDI items:

SWS/BR: Enable "Ignore project tempo" for selected MIDI items preserving time position of MIDI events (use tempo at item's start)
SWS/BR: Disable "Ignore project tempo" for selected MIDI items preserving time position of MIDI events


It doesn't seem like these core timebase things are going to change any time soon, tho.

Last edited by EvilDragon; 06-03-2019 at 05:52 AM.
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Old 06-03-2019, 05:53 AM   #9
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Oh, it's you, Kyle! Good to see you here.
I've ducked in from time to time.

admittedly, it's usually when I can't get reaper to do what I want it to do, so it's not exactly the best version of me.

I bought Cubase a while back when 8.5 came back just to see what I was missing, but couldn't learn it. Tried it again at 10, and I'm finding tons of things that are useful for trying to improve my reaper workflow. Which is where the inline step editor idea came from(toying with pirated FL studio like 12 years ago) and one of my bands used to record using sonar(which had a very good step sequencer implementation)

I think there are things that extensions can't do that should be explored... in lane midi editing for instance is really cool, but would never work as an extension.
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Old 06-03-2019, 05:55 AM   #10
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Oh, it's you, Kyle! Good to see you here.

Regarding the timebase thing, here's explanation from the horse's mouth:

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...3&postcount=25

SWS extensions have these usefu actions which you'd want to use when warping MIDI items:

SWS/BR: Enable "Ignore project tempo" for selected MIDI items preserving time position of MIDI events (use tempo at item's start)
SWS/BR: Disable "Ignore project tempo" for selected MIDI items preserving time position of MIDI events


It doesn't seem like these core timebase things are going to change any time soon, tho.
Like I said, the behavior doesn't work as intended - it just causes the original midi to revert back to the original tempo it was recorded at. Useful if you like polymeter/tempo experimental stuff - but not exactly useful.

Cubase does this effortlessly - so it's not like it's impossible to program. Maybe schwa doesn't think it's how people could/would use it - but to me, it's an easier way to align midi to the grid while maintaining it's musical nature. Maybe JS will eventually script something that moves all midi data - but as it stands, you can see that no matter how crusty a performance - You can line it up pretty fast, and if I had more than a few bored nights of playing with Cubase, I'd probably be a wizard at it.


That said, I'm still really grateful(and optimistic) that scenarios like js or reaticulation manage to not just re-create other features in daws, but re-imagine and do things those other daws cant. I've got a strange work around at the moment for keyswitching for articulations that I'm trying to improve - but again, sometimes an extension is like having two hands tied behind your back.

And it's extremely difficult not to sound like I'm not grateful for extension developers, and I'm just hard on reaper because I just feel like one of it's strengths(extensions) is also in danger of becoming a crutch/weakness when it comes to progressing features. Reaper still does things the other ones will never do - so I can't stress that enough.

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Old 06-03-2019, 05:56 AM   #11
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Those SWS actions for MIDI items are there exactly for grid warping, though...

http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.ph..._grid_with_SWS

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in lane midi editing for instance is really cool, but would never work as an extension.
Believe it or not, but the whole MIDI editor and inline editors ARE in fact extensions written using Reaper's API, LICE and C/C++. Except that work was done by the devs rather than users.
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:12 AM   #12
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Those SWS actions for MIDI items are there exactly for grid warping, though...

http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.ph..._grid_with_SWS



Believe it or not, but the whole MIDI editor and inline editors ARE in fact extensions written using Reaper's API, LICE and C/C++. Except that work was done by the devs rather than users.
I meant the main panel(timeline? trying to think of the correct word)

you can edit midi in place(which is kind of a strange but cool thing) right in the timeline view.

Interesting about the warp grid, so they suggest glueing causes a work around? suppose it makes sense, because then it would in a way re-write the midi with the new relative locations of measures.

How would someone rapidly do that? cycle action?

keybind 1> ignore project timebase
keybind 2> warp grid
keybind 3> cycle glue selected items > turn off ignore project time base

sounds kinda weird, but can you actually glue an item without anything else selected?
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:30 AM   #13
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Be prepared for a firing squad of replies, most of them being convoluted workarounds that don't really quite do what you are actually requesting.

REAPER is REAPER.

I am no longer making feature requests, only reporting bugs.
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:30 AM   #14
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Julian's scripts are exactly why my original stance exists, and why I said exactly what I said in the first place.

1.) as great as js' scripts are, they aren't going to do the job all the way - in a manner that makes sense.
From the very beginnings, my aim with the scripts was to integrate them seamlessly into REAPER's workflow, by making them work similar to mouse modifiers.

If the scripts (or REAPER's workflow) don't make sense, it is more a reflection of your own limitations than the scripts'.

If keyboard shortcuts are so confusing, how on earth do you manage to do *any* work in REAPER? How do you edit stretch markers? How do you arpeggiate notes?


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instead of having to find 9872398723 keybinding slots to replace a few dots on a selection.
Please don't make obnoxious exaggerations. BTW, with one single script, namely Stretch and Compress, you can do pretty much the same and more than Cubase's CC editor. Is it too difficult to remember to press "S" when you want to stretch something, or "A" when you want to arch? (Especially compared to all the mouse modifier combinations?)


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you can warp the notes/lengths to the grid, CC doesn't follow. You can warp a CC, other CC's and actual notes don't follow.
Have you even bothered to read the instructions before writing this screed?

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Old 06-03-2019, 06:33 AM   #15
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I am no longer making feature requests, only reporting bugs.
And apparently also adding random noise here and there that was completely uncalled for. Yes I'm poking you on purpose.

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Old 06-03-2019, 07:06 AM   #16
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From the very beginnings, my aim with the scripts was to integrate them seamlessly into REAPER's workflow, by making them work similar to mouse modifiers.

If the scripts (or REAPER's workflow) don't make sense, it is more a reflection of your own limitations than the scripts'.

If keyboard shortcuts are so confusing, how on earth do you manage to do *any* work in REAPER? How do you edit stretch markers? How do you arpeggiate notes?




Please don't make obnoxious exaggerations. BTW, with one single script, namely Stretch and Compress, you can do pretty much the same and more than Cubase's CC editor. Is it too difficult to remember to press "S" when you want to stretch something, or "A" when you want to arch? (Especially compared to all the mouse modifier combinations?)




Have you even bothered to read the instructions before writing this screed?

(precisely why I didn't mention names in my original post, to appear ungrateful to creators like yourself)

although I do kind of have to laugh, I didn't see this functionality in the original animations, and I ironically skimmed through the hot pink because I couldn't stand the contrast in the text... which is ironic because it's probably the text you wanted people to see.

The keybinding comment isn't because of js scripts, it's simply the cumulative effect of multiple extensions/general daw use. My thinking is - like cubase' ui, if you can put these things physically on the item you're editing, it can save keybinds since you're using the mouse anyways. Keybinding is great, but there are a silly amount of actions in reaper and physically few ergonomically placed key combinations on a keyboard.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:40 AM   #17
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Be prepared for a firing squad of replies, most of them being convoluted workarounds that don't really quite do what you are actually requesting.

REAPER is REAPER.
TRUTH HAS BEEN SPOKEN.

How many times I have asked for better drum editing tools that actually work on difficult metal drums to have so many people either giving me long workarounds (compared to other daws) or methods using scripts that don't quite do what I´m specifically asking for...or the best answer ever is just giving me a link to a Kenny Gioa video editing a 4/4 pop rock song as if that is gonna relate to the intricacies and idiosyncrasies of editing metal drums doing blastbeats...
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:47 AM   #18
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TRUTH HAS BEEN SPOKEN.

How many times I have asked for better drum editing tools that actually work on difficult metal drums to have so many people either giving me long workarounds (compared to other daws) or methods using scripts that don't quite do what I´m specifically asking for...or the best answer ever is just giving me a link to a Kenny Gioa video editing a 4/4 pop rock song as if that is gonna relate to the intricacies and idiosyncrasies of editing metal drums doing blastbeats...
Yep. When I first found REAPER I was excited. Now I've learned to just accept it for what it is and not expect anything more.

Justin has been EXTREMELY responsive to some issue I've reported and fixing them within hours. so that's great.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:41 PM   #19
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better drum editing tools
What are "drum editing tools" ?

-Michael
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Old 06-05-2019, 01:20 AM   #20
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Have to admit this one piqued my curiosity too. Assuming you are manipulating MIDI, its hard to understand what sort of limitiations you are talking about.

Could you do us a demonstration, or at least post an isolated drum track that illustrates the sort of thing you are struggling to edit with the existing tools?
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:54 AM   #21
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Have to admit this one piqued my curiosity too. Assuming you are manipulating MIDI, its hard to understand what sort of limitiations you are talking about.

Could you do us a demonstration, or at least post an isolated drum track that illustrates the sort of thing you are struggling to edit with the existing tools?
well I can tell you that programming 32nd notes is much quicker when you can use a step sequencer. Mega Baby is cool and all, but it's not as quick and easy as simply switching views - and you're probably better off using it only to print parts to midi which isn't the most elegant or time efficient solution for most users... infact I think users trying reaper from FL studio would probably have a stroke if you tried to explain the process to them.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:54 AM   #22
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What are "drum editing tools" ?

-Michael
The MAIN thing that would solve most of my problems is having dynamic split work on 2 or 3 tracks at the same time and adding those separately detected markers on each track to all the grouped tracks

also I want/need to be able to add/delete/move detected transient markers wherever I want with my mouse kinda like we already do with stretch markers

I want to be able to edit 15 tracks of a drums and use dynamic split and use just the kick and snare track for this section and all those markers make cuts on all grouped tracks (AND Yes, I KNOW the workaround rendering the snare/kick track together and using that "fake" track as a guide but as i said before...long workaround when in other daws they do it automatically)

I´m not saying i cant edit difficult drums on reaper or saying that the reaper tools for drum editing are bad...I´m saying the reaper way is objectively worse/slower/clunkier than in other daws...

Clear video example of what im asking for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhxOXEGUv5w&t=10m45s

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Old 06-05-2019, 02:35 PM   #23
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I suppose the "drum editing" features you request can be provided by a script. Maybe you can ask in the script forum....
-Michael

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Old 06-06-2019, 02:01 AM   #24
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About 3 (step sequencer). I have never used FL Studio, only Cakewalk. Mega Baby does not have many features (apart from its ugly looking not transparent interface and complete luck of accessibility). Sower was an attempt into interesting direction, but if I understand correctly it is not in active development.

As with a "trigger" (Ableton/CW Matrix, workarounded by PlayTime), it is possible to make some extension for Step Sequences. But both require the concept of "external source with own rules". REAPER API target audio/midi Items and has no mature "something else". As the consequence even native Cockos implementation of "something else" (ARA) was not trivial, doing the same externally (I mean good, not as a workaround) is hard.

I can try to clarify. A Step sequencer, a trigger and ARA on input have a kind of "item sources" (can be audio/midi, but can also be extra related data, possibly offline generated like analysis in Melodyne). As the output they have almost FX like behavior, with important difference: they need a possibility to sync with the host processing but also a possibility of transport independent output. The last is like "preview" in REAPER.

In other words, a step sequencer works as an item source + FX, almost as ARA, while trigger is more like "item less" FX. All of them need "preview" in addition to host sync mode (not "self given", Melodyne as an item FX editing was implemented recently but still has some logical quirks). Tricking REAPER is possible, but that not always looks nice and sometimes has limits.
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:57 AM   #25
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I suppose the "step sequencer" features you request can be provided by a script. Maybe you can ask in the script forum....
-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 06-07-2019 at 05:07 AM.
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Old 06-06-2019, 12:34 PM   #26
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By an extension - yes (but hard and not perfect, as explain in my previous post).
By a script - no. Apart from other problems, there is no known methods to write accessing GUIs using scripts in REAPER.

PS. I guess you copy/paste with a typo at the end. Or do you know some magic "form" where questions about magic scripts can be asked?
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Old 06-06-2019, 12:44 PM   #27
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List of all the things I miss from other DAWs:

1. Second mixer window (Cubase)
2. Drag n drop list of only items for selected track (Buzz)
3. Better integrated modulation system (Bitwig)
4. Nonlinear item triggering (Live)
5. Fully dockable and arrangeable interface elements (Audition)

Yep. That's about it.
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Old 06-07-2019, 12:27 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
I suppose the "step sequencer" features you request can be provided by a script. Maybe you can ask in the script form....
-Michael
Scripts are great, but not everything can be solved by scripts. And seriously, suggesting regulars to ask in the script forum is a bit ridiculous...
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Old 06-07-2019, 05:11 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
suggesting regulars to ask in the script forum is a bit ridiculous...
Just trying to be helpful by pointing to a location where that dedicated wishes eventually might become true, while I consider the chance that something like this ever will be integrated in the main Reaper software to be zero.
-Michael
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Old 06-07-2019, 05:25 AM   #30
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I think probably there is other things better to spend time on because to be coherent you should post the same answer for 98% of the requests.

Almost everything in some way or another can be done with scripts, the problem might be if someone wants and knows how to do them and also if is well integrated and fits a normal user workflow.
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Old 06-07-2019, 10:16 AM   #31
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"normal" for everybody is exactly what he is after at exactly this moment

But regarding potentially upcoming Reaper features, "normal" is what the devs decide to be normal.

And I decently doubt that e.g. providing a sequencer in the main program out of the box will quality.

Hence the unmatched power of Reaper to allow for many kinds of extension is what might help.

-Michael
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Old 06-07-2019, 10:24 AM   #32
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By an extension - yes (but hard and not perfect, as explain in my previous post).
By a script - no. Apart from other problems, there is no known methods to write accessing GUIs using scripts in REAPER
Why do you think a dedicated Reaper extension should be necessary. If the GUI is a problem, why not just use any 3rd party Midi Sequencer plugin and use the Midi stream (maybe after converting by some JSFX script) to control any desired aspect of the Reaper project ?

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 06-08-2019 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 06-08-2019, 02:18 AM   #33
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Why do you think a dedicated Reaper extension should be necessary. If the GUI is a problem, why not just use any 3rd party Midi Sequencer plugin and use the Midi stream (maybe after converting by some JSFX script) to control any desired aspect of the Reaper project ?
-Michael
If you know any "3d party" accessible Step Sequencer plug-in, please let me know. RWP community is looking for that since long time.

Have you used any integrated Step Sequencer in other DAWs? I mean advantages are hard to understand till you use them (the same with the reason such functionality is integrated and not provided as an "FX").
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Old 06-08-2019, 08:24 AM   #34
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If you know any "3d party" accessible Step Sequencer plug-in, please let me know.
Not an English native speaker I don't even understand what "accessible" - and "RWP" - means on that behalf.

Anyway, I don't see how this is a Reaper issue at all.
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:48 AM   #35
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Well, if you can name any step sequencer with (at least close to) capabilities of Cakewalk Step sequencer, I will be happy to use it.
MegaBaby is not of that kind...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Not an English native speaker I don't even understand what "accessible" - and "RWP" - means on that behalf.

Anyway, I don't see how this is a Reaper issue at all.
-Michael
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_accessibility

RWP (REAPER without peepers) is a community of visually impaired REAPER users.

REAPER is one from 2 still supported DAWs on PC (one from 3 in total, counting ProTools on Mac) which such people can use (they was primary using Sonar 8.5 before, but newer versions of Sonar are no longer accessible).

GUI functionality in REAPER scripts is not composed from "window controls" and so all scripts with GUI are not accessible. Cockos native interfaces are build using controls and so (apart from graphical elements) are accessible.

Many former Sonar 8.5 users have joined RWP community and almost the only thing they are missing there in comparison with Sonar is a step sequencer. They can not use MegaBaby, even if for someone its limited capabilities could be sufficient.

I hope I have sufficiently clarified my point.
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:25 AM   #36
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I do see that it definitively is a problem that (seemingly) JSFX plugins don't provide the same level of accessibility as the main Reaper program does. Moreover I of course have no idea about the accessibility of any 3rd party plugins.

But all this IMHO does not at all suggest that e.g. a sequencer should be part of the main Reaper program, but it does suggest that there should be more support allowing JSFX creators to do a decently accessible GUI for their work,

-Michael
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:07 AM   #37
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I think there is a conceptual misunderstanding. A step sequencer is not an additional program with its own eco system. It is a feature that extends the (existing) sequencer.
At least, that's my understanding.

Of course, there are also step sequencer drum plugins (TR 909 style) that run synchronized to the host.
That would be indeed a use case for JSFX.
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Old 06-09-2019, 07:25 AM   #38
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well I can tell you that programming 32nd notes is much quicker when you can use a step sequencer. .
Not in my case it isn`t. Been doing it the traditional way for decades & it`s second nature for me.
I know how you feel, but don`t confuse your preferred workflow with "the only way to do it"

I went through a period of around two years with reaper back in the 1.xx to 2.xx stage when I was hopping back & forth between reaper and my previous sequencer because I didnt want to have to re-learn MIDI sequencing but my method these days is actually the old way but adapted so I also get to use the cool bits from Reaper that were not available elsewhere. Looking back, if I had spent all the time I spent whining at the devs to add MY favourite MIDI sequencing bits to reaper in actually keeping up with the developments in reapers actual MIDI sequencing capabilities, I would have saved a lot of needless effort on my part.

Mind you, there are still bits I miss from Bars n Pipes Pro....
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:45 PM   #39
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I think there is a conceptual misunderstanding. A step sequencer is not an additional program with its own eco system. It is a feature that extends the (existing) sequencer.
At least, that's my understanding.

Of course, there are also step sequencer drum plugins (TR 909 style) that run synchronized to the host.
That would be indeed a use case for JSFX.
For me a good Step Sequencer will be parametric pattern generator with a step recording capability. So a kind of hybrid of Cakewalk Step Sequencer and Waveform pattern generator. Sure, that can be done with Input FX, Output FX, thousand scripts and MIDI editor. But as I have mentioned before, REAPER is not well prepared for "hybrid" behavior. I mean when what is recorded, the data source and intended output are all different but need control from one place, sometimes with common parameters.
That is why I have made a parallel with ARA. It does not need separate input processing, but even source+extra data with special output and own preview was not so easy to implement (even inside REAPER, where they can use/change whatever they want, on scripts/extensions level that is even more tricky).
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