Old 05-28-2019, 08:38 PM   #1
Rusty Falcon
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Default Hearing dry DI with an Amp Sim on 100% wet ?

Working on a project and I have the mono guitar DI tracks. So I'm trying to run them into various amp sims in Reaper to setup tones where each mono DI turns into a mono amp sim tone. I have a simple configuration:
- tracks with DIs inserted and amp sims as inserts
- guitar DI tracks Master/Parent Send is on
- guitar DI tracks in a folder with a Parent
- Parent folder routes them to the master

I've tried multiple amp sims to setup chug/distorted tones including Overloud, Waves PRS, Ignite Emissary... regardless which amp sim, I am hearing the dry DI coming through the distorted tone. Making it very difficult to dial in tones!

I checked and am certain there is no alternate sending or leakage from the guitar DI tracks that is somehow going out before the amp sim.

I'm at my wits end here. I feel like it something simple since it seems to affect every amp sim I am trying, but I've had no luck solving it after several hours of working on it.

Anyone had a similar issue and maybe found a fix ? Again not using a live guitar with input where maybe direct monitoring might be the cause, I have pre-recorded guitar DI tracks sitting in the tracks where I'm inserting the amp sims.

Thanks!
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Old 05-28-2019, 09:08 PM   #2
moliere
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chuck up a project file (Without media) and we might be able to see something wrong with the routing or fx wet/dry or the like.
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Old 05-28-2019, 09:55 PM   #3
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I had this issue, and it was due to my Audio Interface. I had to turn that track level down in interface settings to not hear the dry signal.

Is it also being recorded as a dry + ampsim, or does it only happen when your are playing?

Edit, ahhh, just saw that you have worked out it is not via direct monitoring, sorry
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Old 05-29-2019, 01:21 AM   #4
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I've had that problem before when, because REAPER doesn't really have mono tracks, I was getting the amp sim in the left channel and the right channel was the unprocessed audio.

Try listening to one speaker at a time and see if it is a left/right channel thing.
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Old 05-29-2019, 06:47 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders View Post
I've had that problem before when, because REAPER doesn't really have mono tracks, I was getting the amp sim in the left channel and the right channel was the unprocessed audio.

Try listening to one speaker at a time and see if it is a left/right channel thing.
Good idea.

Input: Single mono track guitar DI in the track itself.

Panning: Track panning set for "Stereo Balance/Mono Pan (default) set to the Center position. The clean DI sound pans left and right with the distorted guitar when using the track Pan knob.

Plugin Pins: OK so using the VST3 Waves PRS Archon Mono model shows one input Mono In 1, and two outputs Mono Out 1 and Mono Out 2. When unchecking Mono Out 2, I get the distorted sound on the left and a nice loud DI sound on the right. When unchecking Mono Out 1, I get nice loud DI on the left and distorted on the right.

OK so using the VST3 Waves PRS Archon Mono/Stereo model shows one input Mono In 1, and four outputs Stereo Out L 1 and 2 and Stereo Out R 1 and 2 - Stereo Out L 1 and Stereo Out R 2 are checked by default. When unchecking Stereo Out R 2, I get the distorted sound on the left and a nice loud DI sound on the right. When unchecking Stereo Out L 1, I get nice loud DI on the left and distorted on the right.

So it's like the plugins are allowing clean bleed past the amp sim even though the Reaper plugin Wet/Dry is 100% and there are no other wet/dry adjustments I can see to make.
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Old 05-29-2019, 06:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moliere View Post
chuck up a project file (Without media) and we might be able to see something wrong with the routing or fx wet/dry or the like.
Done. See attached simplified RPP file with just two tracks showing this behavior. Media left in with a few plugins on each track.

Thanks for taking a look!

Brian
Attached Files
File Type: rpp AmpSimCleanDIIssue.RPP (441.3 KB, 17 views)
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Old 05-29-2019, 03:53 PM   #7
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Looks pretty solid. Can't see any errant routing or weirdness. I think it sounds like it's probably something to do with the mono/stereo plugins as suggested above. Do you have a non-waves / freeware amp sim or something you can try out instead? Reaper definitely gets a little strange around some mono plugs, as it doesn't have traditional mono tracks.
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Old 05-29-2019, 03:58 PM   #8
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Are you using the stereo versions? Generally do that, or go to the I/O menu and pick VST3 mono, which might work:

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Old 05-29-2019, 07:46 PM   #9
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Guys I appreciate the time and ideas. Nothing I've tried that you mentioned seemed to clean it up. I tried other sims like the Slate Edition Overloud TH-U and Ignite/STL Emissary. I was never really able to get rid of that clean DI sound in the tones. And I'm not quite sure I'm dialing in decent tones on the amp sims which is just making it worse. Not really sure what to do at this point.
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Old 05-30-2019, 12:19 AM   #10
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If you simply turn down the amp sims from their GUI do you still hear the dry or does the level change with the amp volume.
I think posting a project with snippet of audio and using a freeware amp anyone can try may be your best bet.
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Old 05-30-2019, 01:26 AM   #11
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You could try this (but it would mean two tracks per amp sim)...

Track 1
=======
- DI gtr input
- Record armed
- Record Monitoring on
- in Routing, Master/parent send disabled, and...
- ... pre-fader audio send to Track 2

Track 2
=======
- Amp Sim as insert FX

To record Track 2, you'd need to Record Arm it and set it to Record Output
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Old 05-30-2019, 05:50 AM   #12
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@Stella645: clean DI sound changes volume with the amp sim tone at all times. Below links to Google Drive provide an audio sample and a version of the project using the free Ignite Emissary and NadirIR loader... same issue hearing clean DI thru it all.

Project: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wQ...0-sdxHBs5-h8er
Audio sample: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Jp...D_ytdQ3ryCbcUM

@uncleswede: In the attached project I setup what you mention and cannot hear any difference from just letting the amp sims play and listening to the output.

Appreciate all the thoughts and ideas. I haven't done much of this before and believe I have some good amp sims: Emissary, Waves PRS, Slate Overloud TH-U, but all of them sound this same way and I feel like it ruins the tones!
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Old 05-30-2019, 06:10 AM   #13
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Hmmmm... maybe you can modify my suggestion using multi-channels...

- change the send on track 1 to send PRE-FX from ch1/2 to ch3/4 on track 2

- change the pin assignments on the amp sim plugin on track 2 to input on pins 3/4 and output on pins 1/2...



What I'm hoping is the that DI gtr from track 1 (on ch 3/4) will never be heard as it is not sent to the Master and it never hits the output channels 1/2 during the processing.
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleswede View Post
Hmmmm... maybe you can modify my suggestion using multi-channels...

- change the send on track 1 to send PRE-FX from ch1/2 to ch3/4 on track 2

- change the pin assignments on the amp sim plugin on track 2 to input on pins 3/4 and output on pins 1/2...

What I'm hoping is the that DI gtr from track 1 (on ch 3/4) will never be heard as it is not sent to the Master and it never hits the output channels 1/2 during the processing.
At the 'day job' today but will give it a try tonight!
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:44 AM   #15
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Could it be something to do with your audio interface software? Or monitor fx?

This should just work!
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Old 05-30-2019, 11:43 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Falcon View Post
@Stella645: clean DI sound changes volume with the amp sim tone at all times. Below links to Google Drive provide an audio sample and a version of the project using the free Ignite Emissary and NadirIR loader... same issue hearing clean DI thru it all.

Project: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wQ...0-sdxHBs5-h8er
Audio sample: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Jp...D_ytdQ3ryCbcUM

I dunno...In your sample the first 20 seconds just sounds like nasty settings...something weird about it.....but in the stuff 40 seconds onwards I can't really hear any clean DI.

Anyone else listen to it think this DI signal is there on all the sounds??
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Old 05-30-2019, 12:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders View Post
Could it be something to do with your audio interface software? Or monitor fx?

This should just work!
I'm having the issue with loaded guitar DI tracks, not trying to use a live guitar input via interface.

I'll double check tonight but don't believe I have anything at all in my monitor FX section.
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Old 05-30-2019, 12:47 PM   #18
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"- guitar DI tracks Master/Parent Send is on"
I think this is the issue, with that on, it always sends that channel to the mix. If it's clean DI recorded, it's going into the mix.

Uncheck that box, make a send to each channel with an amp sim, then solo them to hear each one.
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:44 PM   #19
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After trying all of the ideas you guys were offering I've come to the conclusion it's just the DIs in this particular project. I used the small project I shared with you and downloaded some different DIs from other sources and didn't have the issue. I could easily get great tones using the PRS,Emissary, or Slate Overloud TH-U with different DIs.

Sigh... apologies for the goose chase!
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