Old 07-19-2017, 01:06 AM   #1
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Default Walter Theming Guide now 5 years old - Congratulations!

A few days ago on July 14th 2017 , the Reaper WALTER theming guide has turned FIVE YEARS OLD .

It's pretty cool, but getting old.

Who do we have to talk to/kiss/bribe/blow to get this updated ? Perhaps when Reaper v6 hits us it will get an update, just like WALTER perhaps ?

Seriously though, White Tie, how about Cockos hiring you to update the documentation for the v6 release of Reaper, whenever that may be ? There's bound be some new WALTER features in Reaper 6. This ought to live in one location, perhaps pointing to other peoples tutorials as well.
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Old 07-19-2017, 02:31 AM   #2
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It's pretty cool, but getting old.
How so?

Reaper's theming is built like layers of archaeology; the old stuff still holds. There's nothing technical to add to the WALTER guide. As far as I'm aware, the only thing not covered in the guide is the macro functionality that was added in V5 (and there's no reason to necessarily believe that more WALTER will or won't be added in v6 whenever that might happen), and as discussed previously, that's a broader programming thing, isn't WALTER specific, doesn't actually do anything, and is pretty self-explanatory if you've reached the level where you need it.

My far greater concern with the WALTER guide is people not reading it. People regularly say the guide is too long, too intimidating, and since its sort-of a tutorial its too conversationally written when they'd rather have a reference document. I have read, absorbed and considered these comments; I'm still not clear what to do about them. More worryingly, as I've said before, the myriad threads of people getting tied up in knots with WALTER too often point to them trying to learn by unpicking other themers' code, which is spectacularly difficult, and finding the guide not helping with that, which was never its purpose.

I often look through themers' WALTER too see how people are getting on. Its usually good stuff, though a few could be a little more adventurous with resizing things for different panel sizes I think But its blatantly obvious from the code when someone is hacking away for hours at code they didn't write trying to get it to do what they want, which they could have achieved with a fraction of the code, time and tears if they started from scratch. When I see this, I really feel for them, sympathise and am sad. But experience has taught me to keep my damn mouth shut...

Please consider me on constant standby to improve the guide, if I can achieve clarity on how best to do that. Not making it longer and more complicated would seem to be requirement #1. Meanwhile, here are the steps that (broadly) seem to be taken by people who find learning this stuff easy:
  1. Do some basic theme making without using any WALTER at all, or by using someone else's without editing it.
  2. Write some simple WALTER yourself, from scratch, so you can learn how simple it all is.
  3. Then, and only then, look at other themers' WALTER to see how they achieve certain clever things.

Many, many people have learned WALTER. At least one of them is a child. Its not difficult if you go about it the right way.
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Old 07-19-2017, 04:26 AM   #3
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Sorry, White Tie, but airon post is perfectly legitimate.

The first thing that is missing, and as you admitted it yourself, is a tutorial about how to use macros. I figuerd it out myself more or less in an empirical way, but I would really have liked to have something that would have guide me, at some point, instead of having to fiddle with it for several hours. and I'm still wondering about how to use the variance option. Same thing fore the tinttcp and peaksedges header directives : what are the exact meaning of their values and how to set them efficiently ? Sorry to say, and I might be dumb, but statements such as tinttcp 298 or peaksedges 0 means nothing to me. A whole tutorial about how to efficiently theme with the Reaper 5 new options is still lacking.

Beside this, a lot of things are missing, contrarily to what you are stating, such as :

- The extended mixer area : could you, at least, tell us how to efficiently theme the mcp_senlist_meter.png ? It's a nightmare to do so...
- The extended mixer area again : which is exactly the height of the area themable between each of its sections ? I guess that it's something like 5 pixels, but I'm not even sure. Same thing for the dimension of the mcp sendlist knob : what is its optimal dimension ?
- The gen controls : what is the right size of the gen knob to be used ?
- The knob_stack.png file : could you precisely tell us which controls are involved, using it ? I found, in the hard way, that several of them are directly concerned by it, especially the trans.rate.fader one when we want it to appear as a knob. So, in which case this file is involved ?
- In the same way, could you precise what is the exact role of each of the following : tcp_vol_knob_stack_1, tcp_vol_knob_stack_2, tcp_pan_knob_stack_1, tcp_pan_knob_stack_2, tcp_width_knob_stack_1, tcp_width_knob_stack_2, scrollbar_2 and scrollbar_3 ? That would be useful, I think.

List not exhaustive...
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:45 AM   #4
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Quote:
But experience has taught me to keep my damn mouth shut...
None of my business,but I think this may be a negative experience.
People will find life easier if others can communicate. ?

I think the better examples are the 'practical examples' =show a few variations and techniques on some videos and you need not say a word.>?
Some people can have dyslexia,or other related medical conditions---so pages of confusing texts are not really helpful there--videos are more universal ideas of images describing actions.
Audio books are another tool that is hardly used-this can be precise information which most anybody can learn to visualize ~internal mind~ video.

Carry on pixelling.
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:38 AM   #5
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My far greater concern with the WALTER guide is people not reading it. People regularly say the guide is too long, too intimidating, and since its sort-of a tutorial its too conversationally written when they'd rather have a reference document.
i disagree here, personally i have read guide and web pages and think that, there is not enough of information for newcomers, i think there must be more-opened answer for how to use yellow lines and knobstacks atleast, that were my biggest chalenges, and i spent a half of a day to test them, to understand how it behaves)
and still don't know WTF "envcp_totrack" means)

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Some people can have dyslexia,or other related medical conditions---so pages of confusing texts are not really helpful there--videos are more universal ideas of images describing actions.
if someone has serious medical conditions, it's better for his health not to do any themes)

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Old 07-19-2017, 07:05 AM   #6
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None of my business,but I think this may be a negative experience.
Shrug, sure. But more importantly, if its antagonising to people rather than helpful, then I'm not being supportive. So I don't do that.

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show a few variations and techniques on some videos
I hear what you're saying, but video just doesn't seem right for this, to me. Its similar to the (often considered) idea of doing a 'total theming' tutorial that goes beyond just the WALTER; the more complete it became, the more insanely long and complicated it would become. Obviously I'm not going to commit a vast amount of time to something I don't believe would be worthwhile

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i disagree here, personally i have read guides few times and think that, there is not enough of information for newcomers, i think there must be more-opened answer for how to use yellow lines and knobstacks atleast, that were my biggest chalenges, and i spent a half of a day to test them, to understand how it behaves)
and still don't know WTF "envcp_totrack" means)
Please understand that the WALTER guide is not, and has never claimed to be, the WALTER reference document, and absolutely not a 'total theming' tutorial - WALTER is only one part of theming, and is fundamentally optional. (FWIW, Knob stacks are covered on p29 of the guide, yellow lines are in the 'power of pink' document.) What were your specific sticking points? I know that conceptually the purpose of yellow lines, for example, can be opaque at first, but I'm not clear how to better explain them.

I don't know WTF "envcp_totrack" means, either! I suspect you've duplicated code from someone else's WALTER when you almost certainly didn't need to. I know it sounds trite, but here's my advice : Decide what you want to achieve, write your own WALTER to do it. That's the easiest way for both beginners and experienced WALTER coders, please believe me.
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:06 AM   #7
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if someone has serious medical conditions, it's better for his health not to do any themes)
Hmm-you never know-it may be a cure!
Congrats to 5 yrs walter-not 1 video?
I thought this was a pro team.
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:18 AM   #8
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I don't know WTF "envcp_totrack" means, either! I suspect you've duplicated code from someone else's WALTER when you almost certainly didn't need to.
No, i have found this in the image list in the end of page here:
https://www.reaper.fm/sdk/walter/images.php#images
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:33 AM   #9
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One of the best things in Reaper (or the best) is users do lots of things to help others. We can see it everyday, one feature is not done ... suddenly someone gives us a script to achieve what we want.

Maybe someone out there doesn't mind doing it for you (or everyone) ... so Airon it is just a matter of just asking the right person, and the right person is usually another Reaper user.

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Old 07-19-2017, 08:15 AM   #10
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Whoops, now I did intend this to be a celebration, but I was only pointing at a number, noticing five years being a rather long time for any revisions to make it in to such a fine document.

I read it, but did not want to commit the time to making my own theme. The default theme always worked well for me. I actually did the minimum changes for my needs, making a couple of buttons for automation modes on the TCP and MCP.


I like the video idea. It's just a question of resources and what to start with. It could just be someone reading the Walter guide on a particular subject, and another person recording a licecap, Shadowplay'ing or Bandicaming the screen, while playing back the narration.

Serif does this quite well for its Affinity products on Vimeo. https://vimeo.com/macaffinity

White Tie, perhaps it's time to collect material for the next revision, at a speed everyone is comfortable with. I'm sure most themers would share their collective knowledge, just like you have.
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Old 07-19-2017, 08:25 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
the more complete it became, the more insanely long and complicated it would become.
Doesn't that kind of suggest there should be an easier/simpler/more cohesive method of theming?

Also, it's worth remembering that there are a ton of videos on using just about every other part of Reaper (the videos here are only a fraction of them: https://www.reaper.fm/videos.php). It doesn't have to be just one person doing videos on the whole of theming in Reaper.
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Old 07-19-2017, 08:50 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
No, i have found this in the image list in the end of page here:
https://www.reaper.fm/sdk/walter/images.php#images
Oh yeah, so sorry, oops. That's an old button for the 'move to media lane' functionality, and it shouldn't be in the list. I'll report the list for updating. Thanks!

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White Tie, perhaps it's time to collect material for the next revision.
Such as? Nothing has changed except the macros, which I'm not putting in as discussed. I see many requests to put things that aren't WALTER into the WALTER guide, obviously I'm not going to do that either.

I'm ready, willing and eager to turn the WALTER guide into a better version of what it is. However:
  • WALTER hasn't changed.
  • I'm not going to turn the WALTER guide into a full WALTER reference document.
  • I'm not going to turn the WALTER guide into a full theming document.

--------------------------

Let me restate the sum total of all the information you need on macros. Macros don't do anything, they have zero functionality. If you are constantly retyping the same code patterns, you can tidying things up by making it a macro.

Code:
set a + 1 1
set b + 2 1
set c + 3 1

...would be the same as..

macro add1 letter value
set letter + value 1
endmacro

add1 a 1
add1 b 2
add1 c 3
I've explained this before, its really that simple, I don't know how else to state it. They're not required, most themers almost certainly wouldn't even have a use for them. If anyone's looking for an explanation of how all the macros in the default theme work, that's it. Just lots of it. Want me to talk you through them all? OMG, it would take all year
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Old 07-19-2017, 08:56 AM   #13
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Doesn't that kind of suggest there should be an easier/simpler/more cohesive method of theming?
Should? In an ideal world? Hell yes. But if Cockos were to work on making theming more powerful or more cohesive, I'd want it to be more powerful, even though that would probably come at the cost of it being even more difficult/complex/disorganised. But we'd muddle through.
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:00 PM   #14
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Yeah, I probably need another five years to fully read it.

I never read manuals. I just dive into the code. Limited attention span due to illness and probably stubbornness. So I just start hacking things, and every now and then produce something of the wall. Anyway, it has to be fun to do theming. I guess.
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Old 07-19-2017, 04:47 PM   #15
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Lot of different view points in here. Want to add mine.
The WALTER guide is fine as is. The problem I see is that when you start theming or modding themes you have to read websites hidden on the reaper site, different forum topics, different PDFs and then search for that stuff you didn't understand in the first place. Why not bundle that into one actual "first" place to start where everything is linked in best order.
I understand the desire of enhancing the guide, simply because there is no full WALTER reference - or did I miss something?
E.g. the folder indentation in the mixer. Nothing in any documentation how to achieve this. The one old (and dead) prototype WT theme thread isn't that easy to find. I wished examples like that would be more bundled somewhere.

And regarding the recommendation to start from scratch and not use code from other guys - that's not a viable option for a mod.

And regarding WALTER vs. other theme technics - I simply don't care how it is called or what it has to do with the same way I don't care if the plugin I load is a JS or VST - it just has to do it's job.

And regarding the envcp_totrack grahpic. Wait a second we can have a button in the TCP to switch the lanes between media and separate lane? Oh wow, where is that documented beside a freaking boring image list? Cmon. That's the reason people get the impression stuff is hidden and there are secrets you can't enlighten for yourself.

Edit: Another thing completely missing in the "docs": How trackcolors influence the transparency and what layer of png comes first and so on.

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Old 07-20-2017, 02:09 AM   #16
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you have to read websites hidden on the reaper site, different forum topics, different PDFs and then search for that stuff you didn't understand in the first place. Why not bundle that into one actual "first" place to start where everything is linked in best order.
That was the plan when I did the three new stickies for this forum. Hopefully those coming to theming since I did that will have an easier ride.

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the folder indentation in the mixer. Nothing in any documentation how to achieve this. The one old (and dead) prototype WT theme thread isn't that easy to find.
You asked on the forum and the first answer was me telling you how I did it, and that's now the first google entry. So ...er.. the system worked, I'm actually going to claim that one as a win

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And regarding the recommendation to start from scratch and not use code from other guys - that's not a viable option for a mod.
I'm regularly disappointed that I so often fail to be persuasive on this matter. Let me try again :

Modding a theme is harder than writing a theme. I swear. Whoever wrote the theme needed to know how to use WALTER, and then just did whatever they damn well pleased ..and then they were done. If you then come along to mod that theme, you need to know absolutely all the WALTER they used AND understand all the decisions they made, which variables are ones they created and not basic WALTER, and how they plumbed it all together.

I think I can safely say I know my way around WALTER. I often find parsing other themers' WALTER to be tricky, and always laborious.

I have helped people who have just started out by writing some basic WALTER for a theme in a few hours. I have also helped people who have started out modding another themer's WALTER, banging their heads against it for months on end. The former always seem to have a better understanding of how it all works. I have no agenda here other than to save people those months of head banging, please please everyone just take my word for it.

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Wait a second we can have a button in the TCP to switch the lanes between media and separate lane?
No, there is indeed a bad thing here but its the other way round - that button isn't a thing and the image shouldn't be on the image list.
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Old 07-20-2017, 02:11 AM   #17
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Another thing completely missing in the "docs": How trackcolors influence the transparency and what layer of png comes first and so on.
Yes, very good point. I'll look at adding it to the sticky, thanks.
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Old 07-20-2017, 07:33 AM   #18
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You asked on the forum and the first answer was me telling you how I did it, and that's now the first google entry. So ...er.. the system worked, I'm actually going to claim that one as a win
Hmm. Not sure. Best way would be I have found the info in the existing documentation.
What a about a series of tricks you put in the forum from time to time? Detail stuff which matters to get smarter theming done. Cubic13 his thread is a good starting point for some stuff which is obviously not so clear for us all. Your short and condensed explanation of macros in here is fine but what about just one example how it makes your theming work easier which might help others too.

Regarding the stickies. Yeah, they are well written but e.g. in the third there are two links:
On first look you got the impression that one looks kind of dated and the other is kind of the same but now it's called WALTER. Also the meter and scrollbar images - are they still the same way working? Because in the REABORN2 theme I modified they look different from the layout. But that didn't bothered me for the moment, I just wanted to change the scaling and not the whole look.
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Old 07-21-2017, 12:53 AM   #19
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It would be nice to release a full PSD template or collection of PSD templates of all parts. Like tcp.psd, mcp.psd, meters.psd etc. etc. so that it's is easy to modify all the parts. I've been thinking of releasing a couple of PSD templates, but an official release would of course be a lot better.

Also, a sprite template would be great.
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:30 AM   #20
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Also the meter and scrollbar images - are they still the same way working?
Lots of that stuff looks old because it is old ...but its still absolutely in use. The meters are another great example (sorry to labour the point) of how modding themes is far more difficult than making themes. There are a number of different ways they can still be done, to maintain compatibility with old themes:
  1. Code meters : the root stuff. Very limited control over colours, but the upside is you get to use the theme tweaker to change them.
  2. 'Advanced Theming' Era meters : tcp_vu, mcp_vu etc. Still very much in use in many older themes. Fixed size in one dimension, control over colours when lit / unlit / armed unlit / armed lit. Really annoying clip indicator theming that we all always struggled with. I don't recommend anyone starting a new theme to use them because the were in every way superseded by the far better...
  3. ... WALTER meters. Themer can choose to use location-based backgrounds or aspect-based backgrounds (a modder would need to figure out which). Can be any size you like. Control over spacing which also helps with multichannel meters. Unlit / Lit / Clipped Unlit / Clipped Lit / Armed Unlit / Armed Lit / Armed Clipped Unlit / Armed Clipped lit. Separate clip images.
If you're making a theme, you start out with code meters by default. If you then chose to use bitmap meters, you decide which method to use and that's that. However, if you're modding a theme, you need to fully understand all of the above before you even start and then go poking through the theme (perhaps using the year it was made to make a first guess) to find out which was used. That requires far greater knowledge and patience, which is a shit deal for a beginner.

I completely understand why people mod themes, and I think its a crucial part of the theming community and I put a lot of work into making my themes easier to mod, because when modders build on my work that means there's even more choice for everyone. However, I also completely understand why those who start out by modding can find Reaper theming opaque and impenetrable and so often become confused, demoralised, and occasionally quite angry. I've given my advice on this, I support anyone's right to ignore my advice, but if you choose to go that way remember I told you not to. Try making a theme first, even if you never release it. THEN try modding.

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It would be nice to release a full PSD template or collection of PSD templates of all parts.
I don't do my theme work in photoshop, so I can't help you there. I've a very clear memory of someone doing this years ago (I thought it was Silent but now I recall him being a FireWorks user) though I'm afraid I'm not able to find it.
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Old 07-21-2017, 07:24 AM   #21
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I don't do my theme work in photoshop, so I can't help you there. I've a very clear memory of someone doing this years ago (I thought it was Silent but now I recall him being a FireWorks user) though I'm afraid I'm not able to find it.
FireWorks! wow, that's old!

I think I will create a couple of templates and actions.

A simple design for TCP PSD with all layers: a couple of elements such as fader, knob, LED, etc: https://stash.reaper.fm/31178/Nano-TCP.psd

Then, maybe adding a pixel grid to the PSD makes it easier to position the elements, without guessing it's location. (it is quite frustrating to shift elements per pixel.)
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Old 07-24-2017, 02:55 AM   #22
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Thanks for your efforts, if you think this or anything else you do might useful to other themers, please do add it to the 3. Making a REAPER theme sticky.
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Old 07-24-2017, 05:03 AM   #23
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Ty so much Flaneurette, I am not sure how to use psd in Reaper. Can you give me some clues?
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Old 07-25-2017, 06:26 AM   #24
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It is a Photoshop file, but a multitude of programs can open it. Gimp, a good and free image editor can open and work with these images as well. You can produce images from it usable in making themes.

Be sure to study the stickies in this forum section if you'd like to modify or make themes for Reaper.
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:04 PM   #25
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The above PSD is not complete. It was just an example.

We could create a big PSD file with an entire Reaper theme inside of it. Then we could make groups, like a TCP group, MCP group etc, each having all elements as layers ready for slicing. This way it's easy to re-use certain items plus having a good overview, instead of opening each image, modifying it, and hoping that it will fit in the big scheme of things, because that obviously doesn't really work that well. At least, this is how I created website templates years ago.

Come to think of it, we could also automate the slicing of the images, possible with a few actions or batch scripts. Making theme development a lot better and quicker.
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:21 PM   #26
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Come to think of it, we could also automate the slicing of the images, possible with a few actions or batch scripts. Making theme development a lot better and quicker.
^This is ideal imo. but wait!! I think White Tie has a trick up the sleeve,and changes are coming soon--might be worth holding a little.
Setting up 1 gdrive account(or similar) to manage files as ~documents~ apparently that takes no space there.
It could be a community effort because files can be edited by anyone at anytime =sharing any load is easier than carrying all by 1 person.
Use the tech.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:50 AM   #27
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The above PSD is not complete. It was just an example.

We could create a big PSD file with an entire Reaper theme inside of it. Then we could make groups, like a TCP group, MCP group etc, each having all elements as layers ready for slicing. This way it's easy to re-use certain items plus having a good overview, instead of opening each image, modifying it, and hoping that it will fit in the big scheme of things, because that obviously doesn't really work that well. At least, this is how I created website templates years ago.

Come to think of it, we could also automate the slicing of the images, possible with a few actions or batch scripts. Making theme development a lot better and quicker.
I'm not familiar with .psd files, what's about behavior and different states of elements, knob stacks, changing size of panels in this case? I think it wouldn't be possible with a single .psd file. And there are people who create themes in programs, which do not support .psd files
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Old 07-27-2017, 03:06 AM   #28
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There are plenty of good options.

Adobe Illustrator and Adobe Photoshop are one.

There's Inkscape, which is well developed and free.

Xara is neat. I used that for over 10 years, but have since moved on.

Affinity Designer and Photo are quite a bit of fun to use, and not expensive either. Those are my current favorites because of the user interface and the multitude of good tutorials.

Affinity Designer has something called Artboards, little areas that you can have as many of as you like that later can be exported. I use that artboards to define elements and export them all at once. Their symbol functionality is pretty good too, especially for making buttons.

Lastly there are quite a few helpful descriptions right here on this forum on how to use Inkscape to make theme elements.

For example: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=38381
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Old 07-27-2017, 04:27 AM   #29
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Yes, I will create it for those who like to work with PSD files. It's like choosing between Zip, Rar, and 7Z. They more or less all do the same, but some open up all formats like 7Z does.

PSD files are somewhat standard as far as portability goes. Except, maybe for SVG. Besides, it still requires graphic skills and knowledge of design, like layers, masks, etc. etc.

So as a mere gesture, I want to release a full theme in PSD to help those who are familiar with PSD to quickly get their theming up and running, instead of opening each little .png from a theme zip.

Also, and for best practices, having some kind of workspace template makes sense. It is helpful for yours truly as well. Until now I never got around to it.

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Old 07-27-2017, 05:01 AM   #30
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as i understood it's something like compilation of all files in 1, but after exporting - files are separate. now i see, this is easier way to work with files, sorry for my ignorance, i am human from stone age, don't even know how to use photoshop properly, and did theming in simple paint.net =) Templates could be nice for new users.
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:17 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by airon View Post
A few days ago on July 14th 2017 , the Reaper WALTER theming guide has turned FIVE YEARS OLD .

It's pretty cool, but getting old.
What I would really like to know
how / when do we get the stuff
White Tie is privy to that nobody
knows...because obviously there is
some of this content in existence,
looking over the contents of his
snapshot build.
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Old 07-30-2017, 02:34 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Never View Post
What I would really like to know
how / when do we get the stuff
White Tie is privy to that nobody
knows...because obviously there is
some of this content in existence,
looking over the contents of his
snapshot build.
There is nothing there.

I am an open book to any questions anyone has, I share everything I can, I assumed that was obvious. I've been doing WALTER for many years now, and from the very start I've enjoyed pushing at the very limits of what I think can be achieved, and my resulting code is there for anyone to see. If you look at the fruits of my experience and don't understand it, that's not because I've been warehousing knowledge about WALTER, that's just a gap in experience. One that I am more than willing to help bridge if anyone asks.

I write macros so you can use them. I want them to be used, and I do my best to make them code lego, and if you don't understand how then please ask, I'm looking forward to this stuff getting used. You have macros to start hacking about with, which is more than I ever got. I don't document how my macros work in the WALTER guide because this isn't WALTER, its code I wrote using WALTER. If people start making use of the macros I have provided, that would seem to be the point where I might think of documenting how to write your own macros, though it would reach a point of ludicrousness where a designer is writing documentation on general programming when there's an internet full of that stuff written by people who are actually qualified.

This is akin to the MCP code indentation method I figured out ...I realised there was a way of doing something and then shared the results with the community, and answered any questions about it. Did I write a complete beginners tutorial about how to do it from scratch? No, I suppose that's true I didn't. But its not suitable for beginners, because you can't just retrofit the code into any theme. But you CAN use the method on any theme, because you'll just think "oh yeah, just use folderdepth to move things up and down, how simple, I would probably have thought of that eventually."

Read this and this and figure it all out yourself. Or, much easier, please feel free and endlessly invited to just ask me...
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Old 07-30-2017, 02:50 AM   #33
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How's this for an idea? :

I make a thread called something like "Hey White Tie, critique my WALTER". People ask me to look at their code (so I know I'm not going to get shouted at) and then if I can see ways to make it leaner, more powerful, more flexible or easier to edit then I can suggest that and perhaps share some code.

That would be a more realistic way of me sharing what experience I have. Would I get any takers?
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Old 07-30-2017, 03:17 AM   #34
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That is a hell of an offer! Quick, before he changes his mind!

I wish I understood how to WALTER better, but I figure a lot of it is as they say in the Jeep world, Ass in Seat Time, no substitute for experience. I'm still learning the basics of theming the pink and yellow lines

And holy hell, five years already!
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Old 07-30-2017, 09:57 AM   #35
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In regards to the PSD template I coined above, I've created a new thread and released a basic Reaper 5 template PSD here: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=194500
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:56 AM   #36
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...

This is akin to the MCP code indentation method I figured out ...I realised there was a way of doing something and then shared the results with the community, and answered any questions about it. Did I write a complete beginners tutorial about how to do it from scratch? No, I suppose that's true I didn't. But its not suitable for beginners, because you can't just retrofit the code into any theme. But you CAN use the method on any theme, because you'll just think "oh yeah, just use folderdepth to move things up and down, how simple, I would probably have thought of that eventually."

Read this and this and figure it all out yourself. Or, much easier, please feel free and endlessly invited to just ask me...
I gave up a couple of times. Now I've written a static blob of an MCP layout.

You know, this is harder, requiring more reading than Lua did and it looks like it'll require a few more questions.



Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
How's this for an idea? :

I make a thread called something like "Hey White Tie, critique my WALTER". People ask me to look at their code (so I know I'm not going to get shouted at) and then if I can see ways to make it leaner, more powerful, more flexible or easier to edit then I can suggest that and perhaps share some code.

That would be a more realistic way of me sharing what experience I have. Would I get any takers?
Here are two ideas.

For you, take one of your ideas for the v5 default theme and explain it to a person that just about knows the basic WALTER syntax and how to stretch elements. Be sure to address the really basic user of WALTER. The big mistake any educator can make is to assume the other person knows stuff. That also holds true in basic production communication as well.

The second idea is for you to suggest something that members of the community could explain well. We could make a video or write a lesson in the forum or as a PDF like Geoffrey does for the manual. Many community themers have figured out a lot of things and that shouldn't just be waiting in the wings until some lucky punter ask for the knowledge in the forum.

Those two might kick off more stuff.
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Old 08-01-2017, 03:24 AM   #37
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take one of your ideas for the v5 default theme and explain it to a person that just about knows the basic WALTER syntax and how to stretch elements. Be sure to address the really basic user of WALTER.
Noooooo way. The deep workings of the default 5 theme are right at the limit of everything I know, a WALTER beginner should be very wary of going near that stuff. On the other hand, the layouts that use flow macros have been set up so that someone with no theming or WALTER experience whatsoever can make the most common tweaks people used to ask me for, themselves, with no potential for breaking anything. And Kenny has already done a video about it.

You could make a functional, dynamic WALTER theme by just copying the flow macros for the TCP and MCP strip and typing in the order they want stuff and the sizes of their images. Things would stack and flow, rather than being individually laid out, but hey - no WALTER writing required.

Quote:
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The second idea is for you to suggest something that members of the community could explain well. We could make a video or write a lesson in the forum or as a PDF like Geoffrey does for the manual.
That sounds like you're asking me to tell the community what to teach to the community. Surely that's not what you mean?
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Old 08-01-2017, 03:46 AM   #38
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i have seen a lot of themes, near 40-50, and code in default 5 theme is the hardest one)

p.s. why people talk so much about macros, it's much easier to go without it, it's much easier to add/edit code, when it's simple.
There is a plenty of amazing themes without macroses.
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Old 08-02-2017, 12:27 AM   #39
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Noooooo way. The deep workings of the default 5 theme are right at the limit of everything I know, a WALTER beginner should be very wary of going near that stuff.
That hard, eh.

Quote:
On the other hand, the layouts that use flow macros have been set up so that someone with no theming or WALTER experience whatsoever can make the most common tweaks people used to ask me for, themselves, with no potential for breaking anything. And Kenny has already done a video about it.
Thanks for the pointer. I had no idea.


Quote:
You could make a functional, dynamic WALTER theme by just copying the flow macros for the TCP and MCP strip and typing in the order they want stuff and the sizes of their images. Things would stack and flow, rather than being individually laid out, but hey - no WALTER writing required.

That sounds like you're asking me to tell the community what to teach to the community. Surely that's not what you mean?
You're a theme author like so many here. An obstacle difficult to overcome perhaps that some folks can contribute to ? Don't ask me what though. I'm having a rough time as it is.

Thanks for the tip on the flow macros. I'll certainly look at those to make a customized TCP layout that prioritizes the stuff I need.
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:11 AM   #40
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Ok, why do I love WT? Jeez, I guess he's not what I am: polite :P
(no, I am not the polite one, lol).
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