Old 09-15-2013, 05:31 PM   #1
Cosmic
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Default Lets talk about HARSHNESS

This is what is currently messing me up.

The all important mid/upper mids.My mixes are badly deficient in this area.

I can hear the problem..so I can fix it.Eventually.

I'm starting to think that stacking tracks recorded with a shite pre amp might be a problem for me..but I know theres gotta be solution..I just havent discovered it yet.

So..can I ask some of the more experienced mixers..or even the novices like myself....how do you deal with it?

Retain presence..without cheese grating the listeners ears

I just googled and found this..gonna try it out right now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeO4r_lMW_U
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Old 09-15-2013, 05:46 PM   #2
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Others will chime in but I think at least part of it has to do with monitoring accuracy, and critical listening, and making directed notches, cuts. Of course, the condition of your ears at the time when you make those decisions can factor into the result in a pretty big way so doing it after 5 hours of blasting your studio monitors during production maybe isn't the best time to approach that task, as opposed to with fresh ears the next day.

Also, referencing something that's pleasing to you in that regard can help, as a general guide.

A pretty common post technique with EQ is to sweep with boosted narrow band EQ and cut things that are leaning towards being annoying or grating. I agree with Craig Anderton who says that when you do that always cut about half as much as your first impression seems to imply.

That's all I got.

P.S. When it comes to vocals in particular, "a little space" can make a pretty big difference, not being right up on the mic, which tends to accentuate and magnify those issues. Of course, in the home studio we often have to compromise in that regard.

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Old 09-15-2013, 06:14 PM   #3
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Take lots of breaks and change your perspective often. Take the mix to a totally different listening environment (go out to your car with a CD for example). It doesn't even have to be a better environment, just a different one will provide you the change in context necessary to reset some of your preconceptions. This is key because the longer you sit in your primary environment working on a piece the less realistic your actual perception gets; your mind fills in all kinds of gaps, balances all kinds of imbalances, rights all kinds of wrongs that are still actually problematic in the mix as you acclimate to it. The more you can break that up without interrupting a good flow the better.
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Old 09-15-2013, 06:36 PM   #4
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I swear, the hardest thing to get right in the mix is the EQ balance. Here's a couple things that I've found work for me:

1. Put an EQ in the master channel. Set the Q at 1-2, then cut from 6-10dB. Start from the low end of the spectrum and sweep to the high. This should sound fairly shitty at any frequency, but you should be able to hear that the sound improves at certain frequencies. Take note of those frequencies. Turn off the master channel EQ and go to your individual tracks, and start making smaller (like 0-3dB) cuts on each individual track in that frequency area. DON'T solo any tracks!! Remember, you're trying to reduce the harshness of your overall mix. Suppose you find that 1700 Hz is an offending frequency. Try cutting, say, 1600 from one track, 1650 from another, 1700 from another, etc.

2. You may also be able to isolate some tracks as contributing to the harshness you're hearing. Try a similar approach to the above but on individual tracks, using large and probably unreasonable cuts first and then paring them down.

3. Cymbals are one of those things that you want bright and shimmery, but that often end up sounding harsh. Try bypassing any EQ you have on your cymbals, hihats, etc. High pass them at something high, say 5 or 6000 Hz. Adjust volume to compensate. Does that clean up some harshness? These, of course, as with any frequency suggestion, are starting points. Maybe it'll sound better at 2K; maybe at 8K. You have to sweep the frequency around to find where it sounds best.

You're quite right in realizing that the problem is in the individual tracks. It's possible that your pre's suck so terribly that they're adding harshness, but I'm pretty convinced that skillful EQing is the key to a good sounding mix. I often ask myself "If Tom Lord-Alge was sitting here with my gear, could he get a professional, polished sound?" The answer is always the same: You're damn right he could.
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Old 09-15-2013, 06:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
not being right up on the mic, which tends to accentuate and magnify those issues.
I was just about to suggest that very thing. I typically keep myself and others a foot or so back and (occasionally further), in some case not directly in but slightly to the side. My room can handle that though, I have it tamed and dry enough that doing so still sounds like your are much closer than you really are. Thusly, the overall vocal is smoother and not much is needed in post other than a nip and tuck.
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:03 PM   #6
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I'm a sucker for nice preamps, there I said it. I have the majority of my studio investment tied up in stuff that sits in front of the AD converters. Do that well (and learn how to use it) and there isn't as much to do in the DAW or rather you can spend that time being creative instead of being a repairman.

You also want to be aware during composition or tracking which instruments are taking up which areas of the spectrum. If all of them are stepping on each other in the mids it'll get messy. I really try to do the carving on the way in if I can pull it off.
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:18 PM   #7
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I can hear the problem..so I can fix it. Eventually.
See if you can identify it in every track that uses a mic. If what you hear is something that appears everywhere (even in hiss/noisefloor) to some extent it could be the room. I think if you can determine the source of it, mic, pre, room, tired ears, whatever, it'll be much easier to correct (or keep from every happening) than trying to surgically fix it.
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:23 PM   #8
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Great preamps.

Mix on NS10s and can I hear a mix?

Tough to give advice without hearing what you're hearing.
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:52 PM   #9
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I mix live FOH, and this harshness is something that I really can't stand. I learned a long time ago when I owned a Martin Rig with JBL Bi Radial horns that the secret to a nice smooth thumping mix is to get control of your high end. For me the 2k5 to 3k15 range is the worst - it sounds like a jet engine taking off and it actually causes pain at higher volumes. 4K, 5K, 6K3 and 8K are all like salt on fries to me, I want just enough and nothing more - anything higher than 10K and there aren't many instruments with fundamentals that high, so I balance those in just to add a slight amount of zing to the mix.

Working in my mix studio I find the key to not pushing a mix too hard and not mixing top heavy is to turn my studio monitors way up. I turn them up until I hear the noise floor and then back them off a bit. This gives me the full dynamic range of my monitoring system and if the top end is piercing and biting, I know it right away.

Live, because I'm mixing on the only speakers the mix will ever be played back on this isn't a big concern. In a studio situation - if I was trying to please everyone with small speakers, ear buds, low , medium and high volume listeners - I would use a multiband compressor to real in the 2k5 - 3k15 range and the 3k15 - 6k3 range in all but the quieter passages.
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Old 09-15-2013, 08:18 PM   #10
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I've noticed over years of mixing that, different people also find different zones harsh depending on the sensitivity of their hearing.

For eg. I find harshness in the 7KHz - 10KHz really irritating, but my client loves it, he finds 1KHz - 3KHz annoying and makes massive dips when he's editing.

Depending on your pre-amp and mic combo, the extreme highs are also tricky. Pre-amps do give harshness. We just realised the cheap Drawmer pre-amp we've been using adds a lot of harshness in the top end. Steep cuts at 14KHz etc. to remove these extreme highs which get amplified in mastering (if the engineer isn't careful).

Melodyne or pitch-correction is another factor. If over-done, there will be all kinds of weird artifacts that start popping out once you compress.

It is also easy to get carried away, trying to get the brightness right. I recently did a pop mix with a lot of percussion elements. I have been addicted to the Clariphonic EQ and in the spur of the moment, I started tightening and brightening, bringing life to all these elements only to have a really honky mix at the end of the day. I still couldn't hear what I had done, until the next day.

Before re-mixing the track, I tried some tricks. U-he's Satin had just come out and I was blown away by it. It impressed me far more than the UAD Ampex or Studer which I use often.

There are some good controls for saturating the highs. It did wonders!!! It smoothened out the transients so well! I had never experienced tape like this before So, that is something you can try, push it through a good tape saturation.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
I'm a sucker for nice preamps, there I said it. I have the majority of my studio investment tied up in stuff that sits in front of the AD converters. Do that well (and learn how to use it) and there isn't as much to do in the DAW or rather you can spend that time being creative instead of being a repairman.
Amen to that !

A bunch of good info on EQ above as well, here's a bit different perspective continuing back up the signal chain from karbo's preamps:

Mics -- in particular the cheap Chinese condenser variety -- These things can be hellish harsh.
An inexpensive way to check if this is the problem spot is to just use a dynamic (e.g. SM57, SM58, etc.) and see if things get better.

Talent - Make sure the guitar player's sound doesn't have the "cheese grater" built in -- a good monitoring environment becomes really important here. For vocalists, the more relaxed and open you can get them, the better the sound, especially in the harshness zone.

Inspiration -- The most important and elusive ingredient. Some key pieces of the recipe that the engineer can do something about:
Monitoring -- If the guitar player hears a kick-ass, rippin' sound, the licks will be better.
Relaxation -- But keep the energy up too.

An inspired performance through cheesy gear will ALWAYS trump a feeble performance through the best gear available.
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:05 AM   #12
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This discussion is so informative, thank you folks.

A bit off topic...

Not that long ago I mixed a tune and asked my wife and daughter to have a listen and comment. They all said the treble was too harsh and at times painful. My wife and daughter had told me many times that my hearing was not good after I had asked them to repeat something.

So I visited my doctor and he did some tests. His conclusion was that my hearing was ok for a man of 65, having lived through the sixties, standing up front of crowd listening to live bands and all that. He said that there was some high frequency hearing loss. He then said that, as women talk at higher frequencies than men that would explain me not hearing my daughter and wife at times. Of course my wife and daughter did not believe me.

At no time did my doctor define the difference between 'listening' and 'hearing' and I still am not sure if he was joking!

Seriously, there is lots of talk here about getting a proper, dry studio enviroment, or ear traning, but I don't see anything about adjusting things in some way around your own hearing/loss. Do people take this into account?

I guess referencing might take care of it?
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:19 AM   #13
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Wow..I had to go to bed soon after posting this..and what a pleasure it is to read all this brilliant information with my coffee this morning!Thanks!
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I was just about to suggest that very thing. I typically keep myself and others a foot or so back and (occasionally further), in some case not directly in but slightly to the side. My room can handle that though, I have it tamed and dry enough that doing so still sounds like your are much closer than you really are. Thusly, the overall vocal is smoother and not much is needed in post other than a nip and tuck.
I usually sing way back off the mic..I use a decent mic..and I don't pick up much room as I have measures in place to eliminate all that.The problem is..and this is where what you're saying is intersting to me..that I've been trying out singing right on top of the mic in an effort to get a bit of proximity effect thickness for my b vox.I'm now thinking this isnt the way to go and maybe I need to back off again and use reverb or delay to thicken them up.
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:33 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Great preamps.

Mix on NS10s and can I hear a mix?

Tough to give advice without hearing what you're hearing.
You can here my latest creation in my sig Kenny.Thanks in advance for any advice
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:54 AM   #16
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@Cosmic - Based on a quick listen of the Gaz LeRock track,

- The synth with the filter modulation is quite harsh! I'm guessing you wanted the lead to be dirty?

I would definitely recommend a steep cut around 13 or 14KHz, ensuring we don't lose the tone. Also, you could probably add some reverb to wash it out a little bit. This will give it space and won't interfere with the rest of the mix, especially conflicts with the vocals.

@ 1:11 - Kick could cut through a bit, there is enough room to make it louder. But, it could be your personal choice

Boosting the low end is a good way to tilt the frequency spectrum.

I also noticed some compression/over-driven artifacts in the vocals at some points.

Nice track, hope this helps!
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:59 AM   #17
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@Cosmic - Based on a quick listen of the Gaz LeRock track,

- The synth with the filter modulation is quite harsh! I'm guessing you wanted the lead to be dirty?

I would definitely recommend a steep cut around 13 or 14KHz, ensuring we don't lose the tone. Also, you could probably some reverb to wash it out a little bit. This will give it space and won't interfere with the rest of the mix, especially conflicts with the vocals.

@ 1:11 - Kick could cut through a bit, there is enough room to make it louder. But, it could be your personal choice

Boosting the low end is a good way to tilt the frequency spectrum.

I also noticed some compression/over-driven artifacts in the vocals at some points.

Nice track, hope this helps!
Brilliant man.This does indeed help!

I'm thinking I should automate the eq on the synth to remove the intentional harsh off that when its playing alongside the other tracks..and..yeah..I think I need to finnese the compression a bit on the vocal.

And I left the kick drum kinda invisible in the chorus to give the tune a bit of variety
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Old 09-16-2013, 05:18 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Great preamps.

Mix on NS10s and can I hear a mix?

Tough to give advice without hearing what you're hearing.
^^

I have then in NY and they always help me produce a smooth balanced mix. I just picked up a pair of Yamaha HS8s and they are much more pleasant to listen to but still have similar characteristics as NS10s in terms of translate ability.
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Old 09-16-2013, 05:34 AM   #19
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Excellent posts with great info!! Another tool to use to shape sound is Decapitator. It cam tame harshness like there's no tomorrow. But getting the source correct is the best way ,by far, to deal with harshness.
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Old 09-16-2013, 06:46 AM   #20
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Good quality microphone, mic preamp, and AD converter are extremely important to capture the sounds. Monitors and room properly set up and calibrated are extremely important in working with the sounds.

This isn't to say you couldn't produce a masterpiece with lesser things...

I think what happens with lower quality stuff is:
Your recorded sounds are compromised from lack of recorded detail, distortion, and noise. (Being blunt for example)

When you try to clean things up in the mix and focus on buried details, you end up turning up a lot of distortion and noise. Sounds harsh!

I'm thinking of some of the restoration work I've done with field recordings. You know the shape and size everything is supposed to be but you have to identify the point where you just can't get any closer and you're only turning up distortion and noise.

I'm also thinking of tracks I have been handed a couple times where the individual multitracks were the quality of dead-head bootleg recordings.


Those are a couple of extreme examples. But I think this is the root of the issue.


The other thing is everyone is used to digital artifacts now (as opposed to analog artifacts). (I almost wrote 'digital sound' but of course there's no such thing!)

Analog generation loss sounds muddy. Everything starts to sound far away.
Digital generation loss sounds 'pixilated' and harsh. The main sound is still right on the surface but the details and depth crumble away.

So everyone is used to hearing everything up front at all times (further exaggerated by portable listening formats like CD and mp3 that are further compressed to work with a small dynamic range). Even when the sound quality is utterly destroyed by low quality portable formats, it's still right on the surface. Try to compare your mix to an mp3 or CD and you'll spin off into confusion with this very quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Hamm View Post
I mix live FOH, and this harshness is something that I really can't stand.
Me too and I agree 1000%!!
Good grief, some of the clubs I've walked into... "Tonight we'll be featuring 2k at 125db!"
So many places hire sound guys that are not sound guys, have never heard properly presented music (they listen to mp3's on portables at home), and have no clue how to even connect the equipment. Then the DJ's... I would have assumed anyone calling themselves a DJ would be an expert on playing music for people. Knows how to hook their gear up. Always plays the highest quality 24 bit masters. Laughing at how ridiculously wrong that premise was aren't you.

Even if the room acoustics are difficult you can always find a balance where you can hear and understand clear vocals without that madness. And Reaper is just a fantastic live mixing console!

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Old 09-16-2013, 07:01 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Good grief, some of the clubs I've walked into... "Tonight we'll be featuring 2k at 125db!"
It's funny because it's true!!
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:03 AM   #22
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Quote:
Good grief, some of the clubs I've walked into... "Tonight we'll be featuring 2k at 125db!"
I've been rolling off highs via high shelf as of late on sources I normally wouldn't and it has made a major difference while still not sounding dull.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:12 AM   #23
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I think there are a few things that "today" screws up the vocal/500-3k region.

Near field monitors. It seems easier for me to decide on eq with more than 6' of distance between my ears and the source. Move your head a degree or an inch, things happen in that region that can make you go "wait... wasn't I just eq'ing that?"

Post-21st century style mastering/production. Loudness War+brightened/dessessed/brightened and then brightened some more, plus Fraunhoffererizing = really, a brightness/transient war. Most modern rock sounds *to me* are harsh, and in the "old days" I think more distance/instrument ambiance gave the perception of "enough" treble/high mids. Versus today, where to me everything sounds like instruments taking turns under a microscope.

Digital eq. I think the linearity of turning a knob on an analog eq is different than moving a slider in a VST. Not only that, but how the perceived effect comes on, and non-linear voodoo in phase shift that tells you "it's working". I used to think my days of needing an outboard eq were gone, but lately I'm wishing I had the money to get something to fix things on the way in.

There is also something to be said for having fixed eq at "musical" frequencies and not going bonkers boosting at a non-sonorous frequency.

Monitors with crossovers. Weird things happen at crossover frequencies, and I think a lot of tail chasing happens because of that. I think that's actually the secret to the "trashy speaker" ethos, because IMO a lot of cheapo speakers can be more linear through 500-3k than an entry-mid level "studio monitor" that has a crossover somewhere in that region. Are you equalizing the instrument or your crossover?

Sample libraries and guitar sims. To me, they all have a dominant upper mid/treble presence that is almost... decorrelated pseudo-noise. This is a byproduct I think of some aspect of digital recording/processing I don't think we know about yet, but that's my personal theory. The response of things sounds "just like" the real thing, but there is a slight variance in the pitch of overtones that goes away. If you monitor off a preamp live, guitar harmonics are moving around with the chords, but from the recording - it's smshshhhhhhh. But I have cheezer gear, so YMMV. There always seems to be 1 frequency on every preset/sample that sticks out, and accumulates if you use multiple iterations.

... Or I could be a loon. A serious loon. Not enough coffee. Harsh was never a problem when I used tape.

$.10.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:45 AM   #24
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Harsh was never a problem when I used tape.
$.10.
Yeah. Tape does seem to mute some of that harshness by it's nature. I think that's why some are always chasing that "tape sound", even though it's not as accurate as digital.

Space is (for acoustic sources anyway) the great equalizer. If you have a really good room it's mostly a non-issue, unless you just have really poor mic placement technique.

The difference between what we mostly do, and what those at the top of the pyramid mostly do, is that they don't record anything that doesn't already sound good. Instead of mixing to fix issues from recording, they're mixing to make something that already sounds great, sound greater. I see and hear it time and time again on good session videos where the monitor mix already sounds better than 99% of net final mixes.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:08 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Great preamps.

Mix on NS10s and can I hear a mix?

Tough to give advice without hearing what you're hearing.
So harshness can only be rectified using great preamps and mixing on NS10s ?
For your sake i really hope that isn't what you inferred, plenty of great music/mixes have been achieved on mediocre by todays standards preamps and certainly many many more have been achieved without ever going through or even near a set of NS10s.
Wildly generalized statements like that are not much use to anybody really

There are various online blind preamp tests that prove time and time again that the "Great preamps" as some call them are nothing more than great in cost and have very little in the way of advantage/sound over something like a 'That' chip standard design that would cost very little to put together yourself, Google this if you don't believe it.
(Not withstanding the massive amounts of mics available here and their individual strange gain/power needs, i suspect the OP is using something of a fairly modern standard mic)

NS10s, well lets not even kid around here, other than being in a bunch of big studio pictures there is nothing that is advantageous to these over any other mid priced near filed monitor once you get used to using them, this isn't even arguable, used them for many years and could not be happier to not be using them anymore.


The fact that the OP has identified that they have these issues is already 90% of the battle and i would add negates the monitor/room advice everybody is throwing around, if the OP is using an anywhere near recent audio interface preamp or standalone preamp then unless they are in one of the great studios that do exist around the world (I assume the OP isn't by the way for two very obvious reasons, 1 they are using Reaper, and 2 they are asking for advice at the Reaper forum) then "Great preamps" and "NS10s" or "Fix your room" type of advice is a much of nothing. (Very few people can fix a room to any kind of reasonable cots/effort/acoustics ratio in the average home studio)
My advice here and quite a few people will give the same advice (It was given to me a few years back)
"Fix the corners (little bass traps) move on and make music, you can't afford the rest"

The EQing suggestions are a great step forward and i would personally suggest grabbing some books/videos on mixing, the guy who does the Reaper manual has a very good one i am told "Breaking the barriers" and also there are videos to be had at Kenny's site which have a good reputation too.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:19 AM   #26
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You can here my latest creation in my sig Kenny.Thanks in advance for any advice
I don't hear anything harsh in there.

Maybe that high synth but you could just choose a different sound if it bothers you.

Loved the video.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:24 AM   #27
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Brilliant man.This does indeed help!

I'm thinking I should automate the eq on the synth to remove the intentional harsh off that when its playing alongside the other tracks..
Nah. Just find a different sound. That's the beauty of synths. There's a billion of them.

I was once working with an artist and Tito Puente was coming down to record some parts. A few hours before he arrived, they set up two congas and couldn't get the pitch and tone right on one of them. They gave up and said "Tito will know what to do."

He sure did. He came in. Listened to it and put it off to the side and didn't use it.

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Old 09-16-2013, 09:38 AM   #28
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So harshness can only be rectified using great preamps and mixing on NS10s ?
I don't think anybody is saying that, but that arrangement has certifiably worked for at least one poster in this thread....
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:45 AM   #29
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So harshness can only be rectified using great preamps and mixing on NS10s ?
Yes!!!!

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For your sake i really hope that isn't what you inferred, plenty of great music/mixes have been achieved on mediocre by todays standards preamps and certainly many many more have been achieved without ever going through or even near a set of NS10s.
That's a myth. Everyone mixes on NS-10s.

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Wildly generalized statements like that are not much use to anybody really
Even if they're true?

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There are various online blind preamp tests that prove time and time again that the "Great preamps" as some call them are nothing more than great in cost and have very little in the way of advantage/sound over something like a 'That' chip standard design that would cost very little to put together yourself, Google this if you don't believe it.
Yes. I remember that thread where the entire audio community had a consensus on such things. I keep forgetting that based on my own personal experience.

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(Not withstanding the massive amounts of mics available here and their individual strange gain/power needs, i suspect the OP is using something of a fairly modern standard mic)
Yes. Some mics sound terrible using Neve and API mic preamps and only sound good with the preamps built into a $100 USB interface.

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Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
NS10s, well lets not even kid around here, other than being in a bunch of big studio pictures there is nothing that is advantageous to these over any other mid priced near filed monitor once you get used to using them, this isn't even arguable, used them for many years and could not be happier to not be using them anymore.
So your point is that you've figured this out and I'm just an idiot who has no hearing and no ability to acquire tools to make great sounding records. Ignoring the fact that 95% of the top mixers use NS10s almost exclusively but with little advantage of doing so. I won't belabor this point as you've said, it's not even arguable.

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The fact that the OP has identified that they have these issues is already 90% of the battle
Not necessarily true. I listened to his song and heard no such harshness. Perhaps the OP is over-thinking a "problem".

In my experience, (which I realize you don't value) it is very difficult to get my Neve, API, Chandler, Telefunken, Daking and Aurora to sound harsh. No matter how hard I try. While I have mixed records made with cheap preamps where it was almost impossible to make them sound bright enough without making them sound harsh.

So that is my experience and I shared it. I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with it or use it as a solution but I also know that many people have never used a great hi end mic preamp. It might be sobering to try one and realize the difference it makes.

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and also there are videos to be had at Kenny's site which have a good reputation too.
Yes. Just stay away from the ones that I make as I tend to use high end mic preamps and monitor on NS-10s.

BTW - If anyone wants me to elaborate on the benefit of NS10s, I'd be happy to.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:55 AM   #30
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Brilliant advice and great banter from all concerned!

My harshness days are behind me.

I'm fairly certain.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:56 AM   #31
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NS-10's must be those little white coned speakers that sound like ass but I've seen in just about every studio I've set foot in. Guys keep telling me that if you can make something sound good on those, it will sound good on anything....
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:00 AM   #32
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I thought Kenny`s comments were a bit harsh....
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:05 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w
There are various online blind preamp tests that prove time and time again that the "Great preamps" as some call them are nothing more than great in cost and have very little in the way of advantage/sound over something like a 'That' chip standard design that would cost very little to put together yourself, Google this if you don't believe it.
Sorry, I don't; experience shows otherwise every time. Try getting 300 back rail volts of DR out of that "costs very little to put together" statement. People can and will always try to devalue everything, including the things that do have value. I have yet to see worthwhile preamps not make a difference.

Can you build a great preamp yourself? Likely so but it'll be somewhat expensive and you either learn from your own mistakes or someone else's but neither of these invalidate the difference good pre's make.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:10 AM   #34
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About pre-amps...

sometimes shitty is pretty.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:13 AM   #35
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About pre-amps...

sometimes shitty is pretty.
Darn tootin', mics and pre's are like a big box of Crayola crayons so you don't want to screw yourself out of choices because you're hung up on high end vs low end vs justification.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:21 AM   #36
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I thought Kenny`s comments were a bit harsh....
You must be reading them with the wrong monitor.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:26 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Andy Hamm View Post
NS-10's must be those little white coned speakers that sound like ass
Why must NS10s sound good to serve their purpose?

They're a tool. A great sounding speaker tends to make everything sound great. How is that useful to engineer?

I choose tools that makes my work sound better to everyone. Not just for me.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:34 AM   #38
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Why must NS10s sound good to serve their purpose?

They're a tool. A great sounding speaker tends to make everything sound great. How is that useful to engineer?

I choose tools that makes my work sound better to everyone. Not just for me.
I know, my a-hole levels were getting a little high, so I let a little squeak out there.... It was meant to be cheaky but I must have puckered too hard.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:44 AM   #39
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I know, my a-hole levels were getting a little high, so I let a little squeak out there.... It was meant to be cheaky but I must have puckered too hard.
It wasn't really directed at you. I sensed why you said it.

It was meant for the large amount of people that write them off because they don't sound as "pleasing" as other monitors.

Our job is make music sound pleasing. Not for our monitors to tell us that it already is.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:46 AM   #40
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About pre-amps...

sometimes shitty is pretty.
Here's a good example of that Black Joe Lewis
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