Old 06-14-2012, 04:39 PM   #161
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This is why I keep mentioning the psychological aspect, even if its 100% dead on, if it upsets the player, it won't be worth it

Which is of course a totally different topic than the OP was about which was"do amp sims SOUND fake"?
ya, exactly. as for sound, i think they are very close, as for experience while you're playing them, as for feel, then still quite different. and for other stuff as well, for instance, you couldn't really go all jimi hendrix with feedback and whatnot with an amp sim, unless of course you're passing it through a monitor and recording it with a mic, in which case, you have coloured the sound to some degree from the simulation.

which is not necessarily bad. i mean, for me, i wouldn't care all that much about colouring the sound that way. if it sounds cool, it sounds cool. i don't need it to sound like some other real thing that exists. i am not that way. the amp sims sound like the amp sims, and i'll shape them as close to what i love as i can find. but it's still an amp sim and not a real amp. even though they might sound close to some amps that exist.

i find amp sims awesome, and you can record alot of cool shit with them in your own studio, and build some awesome tunes with them, in your own studio with an eclectic array of sounds in your own studio. so they're very awesome, and very realistic as heard on a recording. i mean you could play two guitar licks, one recorded with a sim and one without, and you could record it easily in such a manner that i wouldn't be able to tell the difference for sure.

but like you said. the feel factor is still not there. but still, amp sims are very awesome. i would definitely recommend them to anyone doing guitar recording in a home studio.

just like piano VSTs are totally sick. i mean, having the option to edit and treat afterwards midi style is amazing too. but it's still not the same as playing a real piano, no matter how convincing the sound is.

i've always wanted to try though, having a good sampled piano with resonance, and also a convolution reverb of the room i'm, in taken from the position my head is in, and then put that through my headphones and see how cool that is.

i mean, i feel as though that should be amazing close, but maybe like, i would subconsciously kind of still notice it is way off because i'm not feeling the vibrations of sound through my body, even though i can't really say i can notice them so much in real life, unless it's like something over-exaggerated, then i know i feel that shit for sure.

for me, i wouldn't say an amp sim would upset me really. but i want to try and get my music as awesome as possible. and that means not just avoiding being upset, but providing conditions of awesome inspiration, and some kick-ass sound, blasting out of some kick-ass amp, and knocking my socks off, will tend to generate this sort of power. this nice big electric feel, which will affect my playing. so that's why for me, the real thing would be ideal if i have the choice. if i have unlimited funds.

amp sims are cool, very cool, but they are still kind of tamed i guess, i mean, imagine going to a rock concert, and the crowd just has headphones on, playing the song, brilliantly mixed and levelled, and with epic sounds, playing at a reasonable and comfortable volume.... not really rocking the house. it's the same for the artist, if they feel like the house is being rocked, they will play like they are rocking the house. but if it's like timid tamed appropriate volume, even though it sounds great tonally, it's not quite the same.

but like you said. as for the OP's question. do they SOUND the same? then yes, i'd say closer than any mere mortal could differentiate.

but still, give me the choice, and i'll take the real thing.... with a pair of ear plugs please.

me, i care what it sounds like to me. not what it sounds like on the recording as much. i can go in later and fuck around with that alot afterwards, and get it sounding cool. i have no preconceived notions with how it is meant to sound, or the space i want shit in, or whatever. i'll take what is recorded, and based on how it sounds, decide what i want to do with the parts.
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:45 PM   #162
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You can get the wild, tremolo bar nuts feedback with headcase, but i havent been able to with other sims
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:28 PM   #163
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You can get the wild, tremolo bar nuts feedback with headcase, but i havent been able to with other sims
That is a direct result of pooping. I do my best thinkin in there you know..
If you want to be more creative? Eat more fibre...
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:02 AM   #164
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I use Amp Sims now almost 100% of the time - they've come a long way since the early days of Amplitube 1 and Nomad's Rock Amp Legends (which I own). Headcase is my new love now - with all the fantastic heads being developed for it by users it's just a winner all around.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:16 PM   #165
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I use Amp Sims now almost 100% of the time - they've come a long way since the early days of Amplitube 1 and Nomad's Rock Amp Legends (which I own). Headcase is my new love now - with all the fantastic heads being developed for it by users it's just a winner all around.
As I am here lifting my heavy fender twin over to the other side of the studio, I tend to agree. I like many of the sims I have tried. Headcase is nice if you are looking for the specific amp for sure! I don't swear by any one sim yet, I just try make the track sound good and convincing.

Thanks to the peeps with the links on this thread. It is some pretty convincing evidence for testimony.
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Old 06-15-2012, 04:45 PM   #166
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I believe that all sims are useable for different things. What I mean is, a sim does not have to be a go to to be useful. Take for example, the beatles song revolution, it would not be the same without that scratchy guitar tone, yet I wouldn't want to use that tone to record everything. I believe there is no one size fits all amp sim any more than there is any one size fits all real amp. Lucky for us though, there are a plethora of GREAT freeware developers, and I'm not just talking about the popular ones.

There's some people creating their first amp sims that admitedly, they are learning and at first hear you might NOT call it a go to, that is until you need a specific sound, and if you have the first sim from that unknown guy, well now you just might have "that" sound. So they are all valuable in my books, especially the new up and coming guys. These guys some times do things that people who have made amp sims before might not do, in which, you can't call it mistakes, but just early style development. Yet that early style development can result in some pretty interesting tones.

In the end they are just tools like anything else. A hammer can be used to make a hole in a piece of wood, but it'd be better if you used a drill. That would be the equivalent of trying to use a high gain head like skull job to get that beatles sound, I'm sure it can be done, but its probably not the right tool for the job..

Just my 0.02

Erm, make that 0.0198 (Canadian Dollar is down)
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:20 PM   #167
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Take for example, the beatles song revolution, it would not be the same without that scratchy guitar tone, yet I wouldn't want to use that tone to record everything.
No amps or sims on that one!
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Old 06-16-2012, 01:17 AM   #168
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I believe that all sims are useable for different things. What I mean is, a sim does not have to be a go to to be useful. Take for example, the beatles song revolution, it would not be the same without that scratchy guitar tone, yet I wouldn't want to use that tone to record everything. I believe there is no one size fits all amp sim any more than there is any one size fits all real amp. Lucky for us though, there are a plethora of GREAT freeware developers, and I'm not just talking about the popular ones.

There's some people creating their first amp sims that admitedly, they are learning and at first hear you might NOT call it a go to, that is until you need a specific sound, and if you have the first sim from that unknown guy, well now you just might have "that" sound. So they are all valuable in my books, especially the new up and coming guys. These guys some times do things that people who have made amp sims before might not do, in which, you can't call it mistakes, but just early style development. Yet that early style development can result in some pretty interesting tones.

In the end they are just tools like anything else. A hammer can be used to make a hole in a piece of wood, but it'd be better if you used a drill. That would be the equivalent of trying to use a high gain head like skull job to get that beatles sound, I'm sure it can be done, but its probably not the right tool for the job..

Just my 0.02

Erm, make that 0.0198 (Canadian Dollar is down)
Diversity.
That s when things are getting interesting.
I use a carvin quad x amp. 4 Channel all tubes, but i still use a lot of pedals to create and use different tones and colors. Same applies to amp sims...
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:48 AM   #169
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Great stuff man..
Thanks

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Old 06-16-2012, 08:27 AM   #170
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Default C'mon now, tell the truth......

Do amp simulators sound fake?

Are fake boobs really any less fun?
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Old 06-16-2012, 03:54 PM   #171
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Do amp simulators sound fake?

Are fake boobs really any less fun?
At first I read Fake Books. I was like what a nerdy thing to say.. HAHAHA then it dawned on me... b not k

Fake boobs are are not less fun. However, most people know you got them.
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Old 06-17-2012, 03:14 AM   #172
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At first I read Fake Books. I was like what a nerdy thing to say.. HAHAHA then it dawned on me... b not k

Fake boobs are are not less fun. However, most people know you got them.
haha Too True.. I'd get fake pecs, but, I have worked on my Moobs for 45 years...Too late now..
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Old 06-17-2012, 09:29 AM   #173
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Fake boobs are are not less fun. However, most people know you got them.
...however, when your squeezing them, got your mouth over them, or are shoving select portions of your anatomy between them, the last thing one thinks is, "Hey, these are not authentic enough!"

Feel and performance, to me, are more important, than whether the sound came from an amp, or a VST.
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Old 06-17-2012, 03:33 PM   #174
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...however, when your squeezing them, got your mouth over them, or are shoving select portions of your anatomy between them, the last thing one thinks is, "Hey, these are not authentic enough!"

Feel and performance, to me, are more important, than whether the sound came from an amp, or a VST.
Yes but there are sooo many good FREE ampsims.
I can't imagine a free boob job would be of a similar quality
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Old 06-17-2012, 03:38 PM   #175
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Yes but there are sooo many good FREE ampsims.
I can't imagine a free boob job would be of a similar quality
LOL!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:28 AM   #176
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Yes but there are sooo many good FREE ampsims.
I can't imagine a free boob job would be of a similar quality
haha lol

We're branching out.. AcmeBoobJob LLC
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:15 AM   #177
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haha lol

We're branching out.. AcmeBoobJob LLC
Yeah, diversity, that's what I'm talkin' about!
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:46 PM   #178
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...however, when your squeezing them, got your mouth over them, or are shoving select portions of your anatomy between them, the last thing one thinks is, "Hey, these are not authentic enough!"

Feel and performance, to me, are more important, than whether the sound came from an amp, or a VST.
lol yeah I wasn't figuratively puting down ampsims. I was noting a falicy with the analogy to fake boobs. I was thinking more along the lines of ampsims if well used are not as transparent to the listener as fake boobs are to the looker.

This has to be the best string of posts I have been a part of yet, rofl
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:58 PM   #179
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Well continuing with the boobs.....it all depends on how you play them, just like any ampsim.

With a well made ampsim (just like a finely crafted pair of titties), you can fiddle around with the knobs (nipple twister!), give 'em bit of high pass and low pass (lick, lick...), but if they are a shoddy reproduction of the real thing, it just won't stack up. Fake is fake, and nobody wants that really.

My point is, you can't beat the real thing, but if you get as close as possible (AGB is in my opinion as close to a nice set of boobies than anything else available) and see them for what they are, they can be just as good.

A vast majority of ampsims can give a very realistic, natural sound- you just need to play them..... like a good pair of fake tits, unlike naturals. Don't overdo it ie. gain, mids, reverb, etc like on a real amp or they will sound fake.

This is a very raw snip of what I'm currently working on if interested- all ampsims
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63692740/Overgroomed_riff.mp3

I only play with ampsims these days because of home recording issues, but when I do plug into my real amp every now and then, it's just heaven.

Right, I'm off to peeka-boobs.com
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:32 PM   #180
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I cant agree with a blanket better or worse, just different. If the sims had come out first, we'd be calling hardware amps "silly caveman fakes attempting to get a tiny slice of the real thing"
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:24 AM   #181
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I believe that all sims are useable for different things. What I mean is, a sim does not have to be a go to to be useful. Take for example, the beatles song revolution, it would not be the same without that scratchy guitar tone, yet I wouldn't want to use that tone to record everything. I believe there is no one size fits all amp sim any more than there is any one size fits all real amp. Lucky for us though, there are a plethora of GREAT freeware developers, and I'm not just talking about the popular ones.

There's some people creating their first amp sims that admitedly, they are learning and at first hear you might NOT call it a go to, that is until you need a specific sound, and if you have the first sim from that unknown guy, well now you just might have "that" sound. So they are all valuable in my books, especially the new up and coming guys. These guys some times do things that people who have made amp sims before might not do, in which, you can't call it mistakes, but just early style development. Yet that early style development can result in some pretty interesting tones.

In the end they are just tools like anything else. A hammer can be used to make a hole in a piece of wood, but it'd be better if you used a drill. That would be the equivalent of trying to use a high gain head like skull job to get that beatles sound, I'm sure it can be done, but its probably not the right tool for the job..

Just my 0.02

Erm, make that 0.0198 (Canadian Dollar is down)
Very good point. And love your Acme stuff btw.

Again, amp sims have come so far in a few short years. This thread would have been much shorter 10 years ago.

Now I only skimmed the thread since my first post, but my last 2 pesos on the topic are this:

Yes, sometimes I record thru my Blackstar and don't use an amp sim. It is easier to make it sound good.

But here is what sounds better about Amp Sims...

If the song is not totally fleshed out, if we might be doing more overdubs, adding harmonies, etc. and I don't know exactly where I want the guitar to sit in the mix ultimately...an Amp Sim sounds better. It sounds better because I can redo the sound ad hoc to make it fit the song.

Because of that, no matter what hardware I get, I'm still going to be loving up on my amp sims.

And back to boobs.

Here the analogy is that having the real hardware thing is great. Love my wife. But having access to pr0n, being able to change boobs on the fly without committing, is the best of all worlds.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:05 AM   #182
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Default I feel I have to back up Pipelineaudio's statement ....

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I cant agree with a blanket better or worse, just different. If the sims had come out first, we'd be calling hardware amps "silly caveman fakes attempting to get a tiny slice of the real thing"
The "boobs" analogy was to point out that it is all a matter of perspective.

If a song "does it for you" (completely turns you on), the first chief concern in mind is not "how was this recorded, what ingredients were used, what models of tools were used", but rather "God, how I love this song and how it makes me feel, how I connect with it and it with me, how I love that it externally expresses something contained internally."

Now granted, we here at the Reaper Forum do "care" about the "how and why" of the tools, ingredients, and models a great deal. Initially though, for me, that is not the attraction.

Some people are attracted to big golden bozo, funbag boobs, others to small, perky tits. Some like big, honkin' nipples with saucer sized areola's. Some enjoy tiny, Hershey Kiss sized niplets.

Initially, they may be an attractant. Ultimately, it's not the size of the breast that counts, so much as the person to whom they are attached.

For me, it's not whether a guitar sound was achieved with an amp sim, rather it's my appraisal of the "song", that adds value to the tools that were used during its construction.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:25 PM   #183
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Thanks Sinner..

So I'll add that ability to change boobs on the fly to the upcoming beta from AcmeBoobJob LLC..

Oh and there's new ABJ product coming too called Breast Case, It allows you to design your own boobs..

haha
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:59 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by OpIvy View Post
Well continuing with the boobs.....it all depends on how you play them, just like any ampsim.

With a well made ampsim (just like a finely crafted pair of titties), you can fiddle around with the knobs (nipple twister!), give 'em bit of high pass and low pass (lick, lick...), but if they are a shoddy reproduction of the real thing, it just won't stack up. Fake is fake, and nobody wants that really.

My point is, you can't beat the real thing, but if you get as close as possible (AGB is in my opinion as close to a nice set of boobies than anything else available) and see them for what they are, they can be just as good.

A vast majority of ampsims can give a very realistic, natural sound- you just need to play them..... like a good pair of fake tits, unlike naturals. Don't overdo it ie. gain, mids, reverb, etc like on a real amp or they will sound fake.

This is a very raw snip of what I'm currently working on if interested- all ampsims
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63692740/Overgroomed_riff.mp3

I only play with ampsims these days because of home recording issues, but when I do plug into my real amp every now and then, it's just heaven.

Right, I'm off to peeka-boobs.com
+1 for the Nipple Twister
Again pleased with so much rich amplifier philosophy
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:48 PM   #185
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Oh and there's new ABJ product coming too called Breast Case, It allows you to design your own boobs.
...other folks may need bigger screens. (60" Plasma??)
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:51 PM   #186
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Well personally I have 2 40" lcd's.. haha
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