Old 09-14-2014, 01:39 AM   #1
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default Track Folder Dragging Lock Option

Let's prevent the possibility of altering routing in a critical situation by accidentally dragging a track or clicking the folder icon.

If you've tried using reaper on a touchscreen or even a Wacom tablet yet, you might have noticed that it's incredibly easy to accidentally drag tracks and items out of place by accidentally brushing against the screen.

Even if you haven't, surely you've done this while trying to edit a fader or knob with the mouse, as I do all the time. Now imagine destroying that routing structure live.

We can lock the items in place to avoid this, but not tracks. We need another lock option to prevent dragging tracks. You can have your whole project fully locked down but still drastically alter signal routing by bumping against the screen.

It should lock changing folder states as well (from the button on the TCP), but that could be a separate option in case we only want to use one or the other method of making folders. But I accidentally hit that icon as well.

Even if you don't use a touchscreen and don't intend to, you still might need to ensure that complex folder setups won't every accidentally change.

In a live situation, screwing up your routing like that could be pretty disastrous and confusing. And you cant just hit undo because that often interrupts the sound device altogether.
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music

Last edited by foxAsteria; 06-06-2019 at 07:46 PM.
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 05:28 PM   #2
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

3 cheers for folder locking?
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 06:16 PM   #3
Fergler
Human being with feelings
 
Fergler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,944
Default

I can muster a single cheer, I can't attest to the same frustration as I haven't tried Reaper on touchscreen but I have tried other programs that were designed with touchscreen in mind and Reaper clearly doesn't appear to be one of them.

One suggestion would be to have a mode where tracks can only be moved from a handle, such as this (but done better.. ):

__________________
Check out my hip-hop, funk-rock band Theatre Crisp
Fergler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 11:45 PM   #4
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

fair enough, but touch screens aside, the only thing i would ever really need to use the locking feature for at all is the one omitted thing. folders are a powerful routing tool and it's far to easy to screw it up.

when i want folders i use a context action. the dragging and the folder icon cycling i really only use to undo changing the folder structure by accidentally doing one of those things. they get in my way a lot actually and i'd hoped i wasnt' the only one.

point: folders are great and powerful like oz. but we need a door and not a curtain. way too easy for shit to get fucked up.

if it was optional, i'd turn track dragging off permanently. only gets in my way.
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 01:54 AM   #5
ivan.lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 466
Default

Make the FR! Let everything be lockable in the track department... including height and order
ivan.lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 03:44 PM   #6
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

will do!
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 12:03 AM   #7
Repetition Compulsion
Human being with feelings
 
Repetition Compulsion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 255
Default

Link it here and I'll vote yes. I can't recall exactly what my frustrations have been, but I have had a few hair pulling moments when dragging child tracks around and trying to keep correct folder structure (to include accidental moves)
Repetition Compulsion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 12:07 PM   #8
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

K, voting link's up top now. Sorry for procrastination.
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2014, 04:45 PM   #9
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

how do we get the bug report reopened, please? it is not a duplicate. the other FR is included in this one, but not the other way round.

alternatively, would anyone else care to remake it with better differentiated wording?
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 03:47 PM   #10
ivan.lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 466
Default

I would send a PM to Ollie since he is the one who closed the FR.
Please keep us updated, I'd dearly love to see this feature implemented.
ivan.lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2014, 05:20 PM   #11
ivan.lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 466
Default

As TimU said, "lock track lanes so nothing can be dragged onto them" is another aspect of track locking.
BTW the FR is open again.
ivan.lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2015, 11:41 PM   #12
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.lt View Post
As TimU said, "lock track lanes so nothing can be dragged onto them" is another aspect of track locking.
BTW the FR is open again.
I don't follow, what exactly are we "dragging onto track lanes?" Please explain.
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2015, 04:09 PM   #13
ivan.lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 466
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
I don't follow, what exactly are we "dragging onto track lanes?" Please explain.
The little routing button (Sends/Receives/Outputs) can be dropped anywhere -- instant send.
ivan.lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2015, 04:37 PM   #14
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.lt View Post
The little routing button (Sends/Receives/Outputs) can be dropped anywhere -- instant send.
Oh, that's what you were talking about. But what does that have to do with "lanes?" Anyways, I'll add it to the FR.
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2015, 04:54 AM   #15
ivan.lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 466
Default

I dunno. I like the word "lane".
(A bump, actually)
ivan.lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2015, 02:15 PM   #16
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

Unlockable folder dragging blows hard.
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2015, 12:52 PM   #17
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

pretty please? this is my #2 issue with reaper, after the midi/timebase issues.
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2015, 03:12 PM   #18
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

Gotta keep pushing this. It's a damn dangerous feature when using Reaper live.
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2015, 03:52 AM   #19
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

Lock it down! For the love of sanity!!
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 03:52 AM   #20
rick
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Leicester, Eng
Posts: 35
Default Another vote for grouping /track/folder/locks

I'm putting off complex routing compositions until this gets fixed.
Ambisonic routing is (necessarily) hierarchical and with parent/child relationships being so fluid (or mercurial really) there's a constant anxiety about throwing that out of kilter with a 2 centimeter wrong move.

As things stand, Reaper is the _only_ DAW that's being recommended for Ambisonics. I know that this is largely an issue in academia, but that's a lot of students we're introducing spatial mixes to, and Reaper is already a part of that. Solidifying the work interface would go a long way to pulling people off of PT and Logic.
rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 09:18 AM   #21
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick View Post
there's a constant anxiety about throwing that out of kilter with a 2 centimeter wrong move.
Exactly why this is such an important fix. Multi-touch functionality is crippled by this issue.
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 03:46 PM   #22
Philbo King
Human being with feelings
 
Philbo King's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,643
Default

I'm in favor of this FR. A temporary workaround might be a script that would convert folder tracks to receive tracks (automatically creating sends & receives equivalent to a folder & children), allowing the routing to be locked down once it was set up. There are a number of details that go with this, for example a reverse toggle option to revert to the original layout.
Philbo King is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 09:10 AM   #23
vdubreeze
Human being with feelings
 
vdubreeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 1,794
Default

I've always found it to be a problem that track location is related to routing in terms of parent/child folders. It makes me not move tracks around that I'd prefer to and sometimes not make tracks become child tracks. Sometimes I'm constantly needing to have different combinations of tracks visually adjacent but I don't won't to hide any. Maybe there's a way to do it that works and I'm totally open to suggestions, but without locking I periodically change a parent/child without meaning to if I do all the temporary track repositioning a session calls for. I've tried a few different ways of doing it that minimize the chance of changing something I don't want changed when moving tracks around and keep coming back to "I wish I could just lock them".
__________________
The reason rain dances work is because they don't stop dancing until it rains.
vdubreeze is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 12:20 PM   #24
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
A temporary workaround might be a script that would convert folder tracks to receive tracks (automatically creating sends & receives equivalent to a folder & children)
Well I've already got a custom action that does this, but it doesn't go far to solving this problem. The only problem that solves is the wet/dry imbalancing issue when you try to use a folder as a submix bus and your child tracks have aux sends, since adjusting parent volume does not affect child send levels.

But no script is going to prevent us from accidentally dragging tracks out of position or touching the folder icon, etc (AFAIK).
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 12:23 PM   #25
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdubreeze View Post
I've always found it to be a problem that track location is related to routing in terms of parent/child folders.
I've tried to get around this by forcing parent folders into a locked state when I create them (custom action), so that they can't actually affect audio in any way. I stripped out all the TCP elements as well so they behave only as organizational folder tracks.
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 06:09 AM   #26
rick
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Leicester, Eng
Posts: 35
Default Track Folder Dragging Lock Option pt 2

So what might work for you then, would assign routing/parent/child relationships that would stay that way once locked, but you could move them around freely without their relationships changing. Then I assume, ideally, you'd have a toggle that put everything back on the screen the way you had it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by vdubreeze View Post
I've always found it to be a problem that track location is related to routing in terms of parent/child folders. It makes me not move tracks around that I'd prefer to and sometimes not make tracks become child tracks. Sometimes I'm constantly needing to have different combinations of tracks visually adjacent but I don't won't to hide any. Maybe there's a way to do it that works and I'm totally open to suggestions, but without locking I periodically change a parent/child without meaning to if I do all the temporary track repositioning a session calls for. I've tried a few different ways of doing it that minimize the chance of changing something I don't want changed when moving tracks around and keep coming back to "I wish I could just lock them".
rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 08:24 AM   #27
vdubreeze
Human being with feelings
 
vdubreeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 1,794
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick View Post
So what might work for you then, would assign routing/parent/child relationships that would stay that way once locked, but you could move them around freely without their relationships changing. Then I assume, ideally, you'd have a toggle that put everything back on the screen the way you had it?
Pretty much : ) I'm too lazy to create a toggle to revert the layout back to a certain one, I just move back what I moved away, or actually leave it until whatever I'm doing would benefit from some tracks being moved again. In DP and PT, to give examples of what I also use, moving tracks around is and easy and can't screw up anything. I haven't found a way to do it in Reaper, especially in a complicated mix, as offhand and confidently, and without triple checking that everything is still intact. Which is not to say I can't be doing some of the things mentioned to make it better, just haven't really known the best options until threads like this.
__________________
The reason rain dances work is because they don't stop dancing until it rains.
vdubreeze is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2018, 03:42 PM   #28
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

Still really needing this.
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2019, 03:01 PM   #29
_Stevie_
Human being with feelings
 
_Stevie_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,006
Default

I'm not using a touch screen, but I'm also experiencing this issue when using the mouse and selecting tracks. Would really appreciate a way to lock the tracks.
__________________
My Reascripts forum thread | My Reascripts on GitHub | Stephan Römer - film composer
If you wish to donate for my scripts: please consider an organization like: animal shelter, doctors without borders, UNICEF, etc...
_Stevie_ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2019, 04:18 AM   #30
fod93awwyeah
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 3
Default Lock it down!

Seconding this, would be a very useful feature - I'm building a project with lots of OSC mappings and moving a track would throw everything off kilter!
fod93awwyeah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 04:40 PM   #31
rick
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Leicester, Eng
Posts: 35
Default Still no joy?

I'm teaching ProTools again after many years. Still not a fan, but pleasantly surprised at a number of smart professionally thought out procedures. If it had folders, locking them and their routing would probably be one of them. But... they don't have folders and that's too bad for them We do, but they won't stand still in the onslaught of mousing around.
rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 06:14 PM   #32
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

I still find it odd how few of us seem to want this critical feature. I guess it hasn't been bothering me as much lately because I avoid using the mouse as much as possible.
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 12:59 AM   #33
rick
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Leicester, Eng
Posts: 35
Default Track Folder Dragging Lock

If nothing else, there should be a way to retain (lock) the routing regardless of where something gets dragged onscreen. Routing is such a baseline critical operation that the idea of treating it as a simplistic surface graphic is a bit absurd.
Maybe Ver.6?
rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 01:23 AM   #34
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,226
Default

Track position locking is an absolute must for a number of reasons, but I also would prefer the addition of a new folder track type purely for organization that has no possibility to affect the audio.

The simplicity of using folders as busses was tempting at first, but when you start combining it with actual routing, problems arise.

But yea, real curious what surprises v6 might have in store. Maybe some things not even seen in the dev builds? Who knows.
__________________
Myyy Wyyyrd Music
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 06:01 PM   #35
Joe90
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 248
Default

+1

Track position locking would be very welcome, although I actually agree with fox's earlier comment... if positional routing could be completely disabled I'd actually do it too.

When I want to pack some tracks into a folder I always use a custom action to do so, and on the occasion that I wanted to put one more track into that folder I'd be happy to just put it in then route it manually, it would be worth it for the trade off of being able to easily throw tracks into that folder that aren't being routed through the parent, and for the peace of mind of knowing I'm not accidentally going to click or drag something that packs/unpacks half of my tracks in some unexpected way.

I also suspect that this unchangeable link between track position and routing is the reason why don't have actions for very simple functions like 'move track up/down one place in the tracklist' or 'move selected track directly below last selected track'.
Joe90 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.