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Old 08-17-2019, 12:48 PM   #201
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Notation .. are playback systems for music.
that is said from the biased perspective of a player. currently, the player enjoys prominence. that was not always the case. the composer used to be far more important. the composer would write (and sometimes play while writing) and dictate to the players what they should play, verbally or in written notation. The players were considered tools, instruments, for the composer to direct. In the earliest era, these players were vocalists, later the players used instruments. either way, they were told what to play- not to think for themselves. that is a more accurate description of what notation actually is used for, regarding new works.

the player's opinion is also the loudest opinion today. because there are more players than composers (conductors). hence the peanut gallery's "meh, just play."
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Old 08-17-2019, 12:51 PM   #202
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Removing the emphasis and terminology for major vs. minor is also desirable. There should be just modes, with the zeroeth mode being the default mode (for example ionian). The theory emphasis on major vs. minor is archaic and obsolete.
This comes from the system of alterations, which makes one alteration at a time.

Lydian is ionian with #4,
Mixolydian is ionian with b7

Phrygian is aeolian with b2... much easier than thinking Phrygian is ionian with b2, b3, b6, b7

But that's the neat thing... that is purely verbal. The notation and theory does not make this assumption in actual practice. In fact if you look at some of the revered modal literature they break things down into all 7(-/+) pitches for analysis rather than make any sort of conceptual shortcuts. I think you're conflating teaching tools with actual music theory, which can vary wildly.
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Old 08-17-2019, 12:54 PM   #203
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[/i]
Yes, as you can see (in my first post in this thread) I am familiar with this Shape Notation. (taken the parts I think are good and omitted the ones that are too standard).
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:01 PM   #204
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another new system... apparently commercialized

twelve unique names for notes.

Dodeka


Dodeka suggests placing the chromatic scale on a new four-line structure.

After various research, the most effective and clear system to arrange the twelve semitones of the chromatic scale is on a set of four horizontal lines, in which the notes are placed in four different ways: on the line (C, E, G#); above the line (C#, F, A); between the lines (D, F#, A#); and under the line (D#, G, B).

By placing an entire octave within four lines, the Dodeka stave positions the notes in a logical and clear manner, which makes reading notes easy. In fact, this structure assigns a fixed position to every note in every octave, making notes directly identifiable. As shown in the below illustration, a C is always placed on the first and/or fourth lines.

With Dodeka, every note keeps its position in every octave.

...
To rename the semitones traditionally forgotten, Dodeka suggests using new letters, namely K, T, H, P, and V.
As mentioned earlier, the traditional method favours a scale at the expense of others. With Dodeka, there are no favoured scales and the notes on the keyboard are set out in a row. The musician has to learn how to construct any scale starting from the chromatic scale.



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Old 08-17-2019, 01:06 PM   #205
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I think you're conflating teaching tools with actual music theory, which can vary wildly.
yes which is why I was trying to steer things back to the physics world to build bottom-up rather than top-down. "actual music theory" really means starting with frequencies (based in physics), then natural harmonics and intervals (based in physics), then scale degrees and scales (represented mathematically), then all possible combinations of the scales, then chords, then only after that, giving friendly names to things, and tokenizing the useful combinations which are actually played and playable on a real instrument in someone's hand (and obviously for music which is currently played).

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Old 08-17-2019, 01:11 PM   #206
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another new system... apparently commercialized

twelve unique names for notes.

Dodeka
There are dozens of notation system that name each and every note. Even the Pythagorean half a millenia before Christ.
Write with what the "church" says and do not ask questions.

Btw, Dodeka keyboard is even more limiting the player than the standard one.
Also its got its staff lines as coloured keys on its keyboard. This is a "no-no!" dependence. Lacks individual note shapes (independent of any staff, lines... etc.).
It is more close to a rigid hardware button version of the Haken Continuum.
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:23 PM   #207
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If you match the steps of others, you will never leave a trace.
No, not really. Many have matched the steps of their idols, only to become idols themselves and definitely leaving a trace.
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:30 PM   #208
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Btw, Dodeka keyboard is even more limiting the player than the standard one.
thats what i thought too, but didnt want to mess up anyone else's opinion so I just simply quoted their stuff. It seems to be a more-awkward solution.

for example the current piano keys have an important function of grouping the 2 vs 3 black notes as visual reference. proven to result in faster recall & playing as a pictograph itself...so removing that but keeping the long skinny sticks, I kind of don't get it (I mean, it doesnt match what research results say is better, plus a kind of common-sense look at it)
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:44 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by superblonde.org View Post
another new system... apparently commercialized

twelve unique names for notes.

Dodeka


Dodeka suggests placing the chromatic scale on a new four-line structure.

After various research, the most effective and clear system to arrange the twelve semitones of the chromatic scale is on a set of four horizontal lines, in which the notes are placed in four different ways: on the line (C, E, G#); above the line (C#, F, A); between the lines (D, F#, A#); and under the line (D#, G, B).

By placing an entire octave within four lines, the Dodeka stave positions the notes in a logical and clear manner, which makes reading notes easy. In fact, this structure assigns a fixed position to every note in every octave, making notes directly identifiable. As shown in the below illustration, a C is always placed on the first and/or fourth lines.

With Dodeka, every note keeps its position in every octave.

...
To rename the semitones traditionally forgotten, Dodeka suggests using new letters, namely K, T, H, P, and V.
As mentioned earlier, the traditional method favours a scale at the expense of others. With Dodeka, there are no favoured scales and the notes on the keyboard are set out in a row. The musician has to learn how to construct any scale starting from the chromatic scale.



Images not showing here, but I did some searching and found what I was looking for.

It's interesting to me seeing any alternative notation system, although I don't see pitch or time being easier to read or write in that system.

I think the multi-line staff concept in general is majorly flawed to begin with. It's an unnecessary translation from one form to another. And I think the same is true for multi-symbol pitch notation systems. However it is that we talk about pitch is how we should notate it. If we talk about 'C' then we should write 'C'. If we say '0' then we should write '0'. I don't understand the approach of saying 'C', translating that to a different symbol form (shape on a line), then translating that to a position on an instrument, and the other way around.
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:47 PM   #210
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No, not really. Many have matched the steps of their idols, only to become idols themselves and definitely leaving a trace.
Influenced doesn't mean to match. Look at some of Pat Metheny's talks about his first album when he was 20, or Steve Vai's talks about what is important to be a good guitarplayer-musician (especially what he says about Kurt Cobain's guitar playing in general).
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:52 PM   #211
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"The theory emphasis on major vs. minor is archaic and obsolete."

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This comes from the system of alterations, which makes one alteration at a time.
actually it comes from one of my thick, dusty 1950's traditional music theory college textbooks (luckily bought at a library's used sale for $1.00) which literally stated that, halfway through the book: "western music uses only major and sometimes minor; therefore, modes will not be discussed in this text." (or something to that effect)

and by 'western music' they really meant: The Church's music.

Nowadays nearly all music texts describe the music in terms of major & minor in the first half of education as if it is somehow easier to limit the world, but then, if mentioning modes at all, they are thrown in as a surprise, "tada! now look what happens when you add in all these missing things which you were told before didn't exist."

as you noted, real theory analysis today does not get stuck in a box of only major & minor, all bases are covered from the start. Yet typical notation is still burdened with "Cmaj" or "Cmin" in symbology, and then after that, with various other tokens for further alterations... whereas perhaps if harmony is considered tetrachord from the start (something The Church never did, isnt that right?) then the system can be dramatically improved. For example if the interval notation for M7 and m7 is fixed up, because a new system doesn't use accidentals and uses counting in 12 by default, then the basic silliness like:

Cmaj7
C7
CM7
Cm7

is eliminated.


Remember... Many of these problems were created because of limitations in typesetting - publishers and composers simply did not have fonts or software to use any other unique symbols. (Even today these problems are not resolved, but have been reduced)
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:56 PM   #212
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My question to our jazz fellow Goldreap is still open for interpretation (pun intended) on his behalf.

Why is the (dominant) chord (G7) called Dominant?


Now, about the "octave range" separator, which is usually C. Why C and not A?
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:57 PM   #213
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For example if the interval notation for M7 and m7 is fixed up, because a new system doesn't use accidentals and uses counting in 12 by default, then the basic silliness like:

Cmaj7
C7
CM7
Cm7

is eliminated.
What might that begin to look like?
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:58 PM   #214
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It's interesting to me seeing any alternative notation system, although I don't see pitch or time being easier to read or write in that system.
I have been looking for hours now, for the link to a modern "learn piano the easy way without staff" system which I found a couple years ago, it was invented sometime around the late 90s, and has become extremely popular. It looks somewhat like MIDI bars but is correlated to the piano keyboard, it uses it's own piano music books (songs transcribed into its own system). I cant remember the name.. like I said Ive been looking all over the net for it today. It will bubble up at some point I guess. Invented by an asian guy who wanted to learn piano as an adult, yet struggled to make progress, and so he developed his own system. Maybe he had a TED talk too?

It's for playing piano "easily" not writing of course.
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:59 PM   #215
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What might that begin to look like?
in general it is a bad habit to jump into design & implementation when requirements are not fully set.

i.e. not ready to say, yet.

better to focus on the lower layers first.
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Old 08-17-2019, 02:06 PM   #216
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in general it is a bad habit to jump into design & implementation when requirements are not fully set.

i.e. not ready to say, yet.

better to focus on the lower layers first.
That's kind of the funny thing. A person mostly likely doesn't know much about what the greater requirements are until first trying and failing in small ways.
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Old 08-17-2019, 02:06 PM   #217
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What might that begin to look like?
Depends on your creative logic or logical creativity.

I created a nomenclature which allows you to choose either interval relative relations between the notes in a chord, regardless of the inversion or to use the note names as they appear above or below (means inversions are covered as well) the root note.
Same if it is a chord in a form of "<chord> over <bass note>"
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Old 08-17-2019, 02:08 PM   #218
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That's kind of the funny thing. A person mostly likely doesn't know much about what the greater requirements are until first trying and failing in small ways.
True indeed! Couldn't agree more on that!
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Old 08-17-2019, 02:14 PM   #219
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That's kind of the funny thing. A person mostly likely doesn't know much about what the greater requirements are until first trying and failing in small ways.
it is often easier to do homework first than going about with trial & error. it can be called, comparative analysis, or, (horror!) research.
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Old 08-17-2019, 02:17 PM   #220
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it is often easier to do homework first than going about with trial & error. it can be called, comparative analysis, or, (horror!) research.
Learn by doing. Make mistakes, learn from them, continue.
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Old 08-17-2019, 02:36 PM   #221
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I did structure this thread as a "How to ..?" question. I am still looking for more answers. Two great systems have been posted here as examples so far. Amongst a large bulk of backlash. I didn't suggest that I was going to make my own system (altho, I have some specific ideas for solutions) The main answer so far is "meh, a new system is useless {because I dont understand the purpose}"

I believe a review of Pythagoras could be in order. And others from before, or independent of, The Church.

I agree with adXok - some of the best work on music theory is in dusty old books (pre-1950's), which amazingly, everyone ignores or discards today, yet in comparison to any new music theory book they are vastly better (i.e. "Complete Dummy's Guide To Music Theory", yuck). and not watered-down, either. they are missing jazz theory of course, and modal stuff. Somehow on the sidelines, either hidden from the view of today's musicians or incomprehensible to them, the new composers created systems as I mentioned in the OP, like tone rows or set theory, which is ignored or unknown in the "I know music theory and this is nonsense" peanut gallery. As far as I know, harmonic analysis of the result of such techniques has not been done other than in relation to math, so that's what I'm still wondering about.
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Old 08-17-2019, 03:50 PM   #222
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that is said from the biased perspective of a player. currently, the player enjoys prominence.
That's irrelevant, the music is not heard prior to the invention of audio recording without a player. Notation was part of the "playback system". It had to work with the most popular instrument of the time. Had that not happened, we may not be having this conversation...

Quote:
that was not always the case. the composer used to be far more important.
Again, that's not the point in the context of "revamping ancient music notation and theory".

Playback systems shorten distances and time between a composer and a listener. That's all.

Quote:

players were considered tools, instruments, for the composer to direct.
What I wrote doesn't contradict that. The "playback system" is the "recorded medium" (notation) and the means of reproduction (the instrument + the human).

Quote:
either way, they were told what to play- not to think for themselves. that is a more accurate description of what notation actually is used for, regarding new works/
It is a playback system. Someone writes music in Town A and it is heard by someone in Town B.

Town B could have either a great pianist on a Bosendorfer, or a Thorens turntable through Macintosh amps and Magnepans.

Make the playback involve a complicated format translation through jittery converters, unnecessary conversions, drifting clock, and the audience won't get a great experience. Make the notation system complicated and not in a format the Playback Converter agrees with, the audience gets a bad experience.

A means to get music from one location and time to another. A playback system.

Quote:
the player's opinion is also the loudest opinion today. because there are more players than composers (conductors). hence the peanut gallery's "meh, just play."
I'm not sure what you're on about, but have a nice day.
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Old 08-17-2019, 03:58 PM   #223
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Maybe he had a TED talk too?
maybe this

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Old 08-17-2019, 04:07 PM   #224
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Again, that's not the point in the context of "revamping ancient music notation and theory".

Playback systems shorten distances and time between a composer and a listener. That's all.

i'm not sure what you're on about either. what's any of this got to do with making accurate transcriptions which are easy to read after a recording is made, or writing new music which is easy to communicate and more accurate in it's expression, or analyzing music which has been previously transcribed. Examples were already given in this thread.. locally I dont have to look very far for typical confusion... if I have a band come in for a recording, they don't even have a chart of their own song which makes recording more difficult, why don't they have a chart, because they can't easily make one, according to them, "meh that'll take extra time", meanwhile not having a chart takes extra recording time in overdubs.

"There is no need for a new notation system that is indeed flawed, because we have AUDIO RECORDING."

that is just such a reduction in the discussion that it seems meaningless.. no one uses charts after a song has been recorded the first time? what, huh? something "in the context of 'revamping ancient music notation and theory'." ?
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Old 08-17-2019, 04:10 PM   #225
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just a hunch: maybe he means the recording as shown in the DAW itself acts as the chart. anyone I've worked with can look at the screen and say, yea right there... or, "after the first verse" and everyone understands what that means and if the engineer is at the wrong spot, it just takes a few seconds to correct
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Old 08-17-2019, 04:14 PM   #226
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maybe this
Yes that's it.. HAO staff.

it has a specific use.. for ease of playing (not theory analysis) - to go along with prior discussion of piano-targeted staff notation alternatives. Imagine the notes as bars and actually it is close to looking like a MIDI roll.

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Old 08-17-2019, 04:35 PM   #227
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Yes that's it.. HAO staff.

it has a specific use.. for ease of playing (not theory analysis) - to go along with prior discussion of piano-targeted staff notation alternatives. Imagine the notes as bars and actually it is close to looking like a MIDI roll.

MIDI roll with noteheads from the Grand Staff. Again, and this time 100% related to the standard piano keyboard. Technically it is like a piano tabulature.
This idea was the first one I rejected 10+ years ago. It works but it is visually intimidating, huge spread vertically stretched and takes a lot of space.
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Old 08-17-2019, 08:16 PM   #228
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music is not heard prior to the invention of audio recording without a player. Notation was part of the "playback system".

I suppose what strikes me so odd is that this type of statement could even be considered, in a music discussion. sight-singing is real. audiation is real. visual elegance of written notation is real. music has been composed by those who previously could hear then later went deaf. the notes themselves on a page have significant meaning. the letters which represent the notes are symbols indicating vibrations of physical bodies in nature with harmonics which blend with each other.

"the art of music" exists if the music is written down even in the absence of a player.

take a chart of SATB. sing a line and imagine the harmonies. take a jazz chart full of chords plus a vocal line and sight-sing it or audiate it. take a sheet of piano music to look over the phrases in legato sections and feel the pace and emphasis of the lines. take a drum tab and look at the pattern of the groove to get a feel for the beat. these are real things which musicians do.

the essence of that quote is absolutely bewildering in any realm related to knowledge (aka "the theory of knowing", "the philosophy of knowledge") and especially in the arena of music (aka human-organized sound).
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:26 PM   #229
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this in particular is very useful aspect of notation which currently is only used as a meta technique:

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also came across this... I have seen abbreviations like this before and have found them useful


In a jazz chart, which is "not supposed to be played in exact form anyways", the melody line could leave out notes completely and simply write "S" or "UN" in that place (usually notes of shorter duration). This would indicate the purpose of the note, rather than the fixed note itself, and prescribe to the player (or composer later studying the theory of the music) that a liberty could be taken with that single beat. It would include improvisational marking directly in the sheet or score. For example- the player could see "UN" and instead decide play the same note as previously, or extend the duration of the previous note, rather than add the UN. Or, if the player wanted to really play out-of-the-box, the player might choose a leap rather than "UN". In theory analysis it would translate the artistic intent. This is a simple example but could be extended to more complex context.

The fact is that classical music today (whether new work in classical style or historic pieces) _should_ be improvised but is _not_ improvised. This is commonly known. There are descriptions of players or composers, from the original era of work, improvising their pieces. Yet today when someone performs or analyzes these same pieces, it is always by-rote. Never improvised. The entire art of improvisation in the classical realm has been lost. I view this mainly as a massive failure in the notation. The original composers _assumed_ that the players and next generations of players would continue to understand the artistic meaning & artistic intent of their works, and thus be able to improvise the appropriate phrases or sections. This is definitely not the way music has turned out. (Many in the classical world, including published research, says this lack of improvisation & variation of expression is the main cause of lack of audience interest in classical music! So the failures of the notation is literally killing the art form.)

Improvement in notation could improve these situations dramatically. When I write music or read music (transcriptions) it would definitely help if music notation software allowed these marks to be easily added as part of the score as I write - as an aspect of the notes themselves.

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Old 08-18-2019, 12:29 AM   #230
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That's irrelevant, the music is not heard prior to the invention of audio recording without a player. Notation was part of the "playback system".
The "playback system" is the "recorded medium" (notation) and the means of reproduction (the instrument + the human).
It is a playback system. Someone writes music in Town A and it is heard by someone in Town B.
Playback systems shorten distances and time between a composer and a listener. That's all.
I do agree to your idea and suggestions. Yes, nowadays we've got the luxury of audio (and video!) recordings, electricity (analogue/digital).
I also do think, that an audio recordings as a "notation system/playback system" amongst musicians would work 100% only if all those were trained to achieve the so called "absolute pitch" from an early age (look how Rick Beato trained his kid). Of course even today we (somehow skillful musicians with somehow trained ear) can learn a music piece by ear if it is not too complicated music (again form personal perspective).
Look... flamenco playing and other native folklore music was passed on by first hand and by ear and by tips'n'tricks (someone shows you the skills in person). That is different, I agree, from a notation system (that is represented by Youtube and video today).

That is why I would like to see the radical (back to the roots) approach, prior to church influence (the staff, note names), prior to... well... the standard piano keyboard!
I think those are limiting both the composers and the students (players).

Quote:
Let's bring back the 12 unique notenames for the 12 tones (music alphabet).

Let's redesign the piano keyboard in such a way, so that it can be derived from the topology of the human hand and fingers!
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Old 08-18-2019, 12:47 AM   #231
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Why is the (dominant) chord (G7) called Dominant?
i dont know. why is it called Dominant ?
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Old 08-18-2019, 12:52 AM   #232
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i dont know. why is it called Dominant ?
What does Google say? (the G7 question was more inclined towards Goldreap but not so big deal)
I'll help you:
Quote:
The triad built on the dominant note is called the dominant chord. This chord is said to have dominant function, which means that it creates an instability that requires the tonic for resolution.
* That is, meh... arguably good explanation, but since when to be dominant means to cause instability? Maybe because it "requires" something, demanding... but that is not to dominate, rather the contrary, to beg for (resolution). They also say "dominant note" which is beyond incompetence, it is hilarious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_(music)

But there are some warmer explanations there (pointing out with bold):
Quote:
Modulation to the dominant often creates a sense of increased tension; as opposed to modulation to the subdominant (fourth note of the scale), which creates a sense of musical relaxation.
Ok, but what is "increased" tension then? How is this related to chords.
hint: what does it dominate?

Too bad they have given a few (insufficient) words regarding non-Western treatment of dominant (non-diatonic scales)
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:38 AM   #233
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an excerpt from my "Treatise on Pentatonics" (using the old church names but you'll get which one is it)

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Old 08-18-2019, 06:08 AM   #234
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Oh, please excuse my inadvertence, maybe this would be more meaningful for the readers of the standard (inconsistent) chord writing convention:
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:09 AM   #235
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i'm not sure what you're on about either. what's any of this got to do with making accurate transcriptions which are easy to read
What does something that makes the "playback system" pre-audio recording era work have to do with the context of this thread, "revamp the ancient music notation"?

You have pre-recorded music notation. You have notation created post-recording. Unless you're planning for a post-EM bomb world it's a fool's errand to bother with trying to revamp or improve written transcription when you'll never be able to save the *rendition* of music as accurately as an audio recording.

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After a recording is made, or writing new music which is easy to communicate and more accurate in it's expression,
You'll never get more accurate than a recording. Either the audience can hear the most accurate rendition (and could care less about a transcription), or *a person capable of performing a difference in rendition can HEAR it*.

Bach cello suite in G, the prelude: Rostropovich, Casals, Yo-Yo Ma do it 3 different ways. They're playing what's written. What's the right way Bach wanted?

You'll never be able to notate Rostropovich's version accurately. A fool's errand; and to what reward, when there is the recording?


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typical confusion... if I have a band come in for a recording, they don't even have a chart of their own song which makes recording more difficult, why don't they have a chart, because they can't easily make one, according
One would hope before they attempt a recording that they've MEMORIZED it.

Quote:
to them, "meh that'll take extra time", meanwhile not having a chart takes extra recording time in overdubs.

A band that spends money to go in a studio but doesn't know what they're going to do? That's because they suck and haven't done their homework.



Quote:
no one uses charts after a song has been recorded the first time? what, huh? something "in the context of 'revamping ancient music notation and theory'." ?
That would be putting words in my mouth.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:18 AM   #236
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I suppose what strikes me so odd is that this type of statement could even be considered, in a music discussion. sight-singing is real. audiation is real. visual elegance of written notation is real. music has been composed by those who previously could hear then later went deaf. the notes themselves on a page have significant meaning. the letters which represent the notes are symbols indicating vibrations of physical bodies in nature with harmonics which blend with each other.

"the art of music" exists if the music is written down even in the absence of a player.
A tree falling in the woods makes sound even if nobody is there to hear it, but that's also not material to whether or not standard notation needs revamping or that it's worthy to try to go to the trouble.

Quote:
take a chart of SATB. sing a line and imagine the harmonies. take a jazz chart full of chords plus a vocal line and sight-sing it or audiate it.
..and what is the problem? Unless your system is going to make it easier for a lesser trained musician to do the above, the present notation system is adequate.

Whether it's necessary in the 21st century depends on how many antibiotics one has stored in one's underground bunker.

Quote:
take a sheet of piano music to look over the phrases in legato sections and feel the pace and emphasis of the lines. take a drum tab and look at the pattern of the groove to get a feel for the beat. these are real things which musicians do.
..ok. So... what does that have to do with needing to revamp notation *in the 21st century*?


Quote:
the essence of that quote is absolutely bewildering in any realm related to knowledge (aka "the theory of knowing", "the philosophy of knowledge") and especially in the arena of music (aka human-organized sound).

I will admit at this juncture I am completely bewildered. Have a nice day.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:35 AM   #237
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That is why I would like to see the radical (back to the roots) approach, prior to church influence (the staff, note names), prior to... well... the standard piano keyboard!
I think those are limiting both the composers and the students (players).
As a guitar player I find the staff intimidating and biased towards keyboards (I can actually read better on piano after fooling around for half an hour). But the point is whether an idealized notation is going to be adopted, taught, and be *necessary*?

By the time a musician gets to the point where they have enough control AND to be able to sight read embellishments, they should also be able to *hear* the diacritical embellishments. If they can't, they're robots - and there is no point in trying to make the robot play more "accurately" when, again, in the 21st century we have documented various virtuoso renditions.

The gap between "musician as music playback system" and "virtuoso interpretation" is never going to be bridged, because no human wants to dedicate his life to pursuing the arcane, non-human/non-ego activity of learning a more idealized notation. At the point where you're capable of doing it the point goes away: "do I play this passage ala Gould, or do I choose something else?". Bach can't revamp what is already written.


... and there may be no point. The beauty of Bach is that it IS a skeleton that retains form despite interpretation.

Which leaves making initiation into the reading process easier, which at this juncture is going to be a lost cause. Anyone in the 21st century pursuing reading music will either cross a threshold where they can play embellishments by ear, or they stop. If a person continues you've then got to purport a reason to devote one's life to the new system - when the bulk of written music is NOT in that system.

A noble but lost cause IMO, sorry.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:21 AM   #238
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^ indeed, chip mcdonald.
Also it is very similar to starting learning a new language (written in this case). Of course it will require time and efforts dedicated specifically to that task - learning it and studying it.

I can give an example only from my perspective:
I have hundreds of song ideas (sometimes even whole songs) in structure, chords and melodies. Some that I've got on video are fine to recall or relearn.
But the ones that have been "written" only in audio mediums are a pain in the butt (chords, cadences, sequences). Of course I can match them by ear, but I use specific inversions, not so simple chords (as triads) rather "add/sus" bass lines... it is nightmare to reproduce.

So, that was my ambition to re-define the standard notation.
Piano keyboard was much earlier endeavour, because I hated that keyboard. Not anymore... I've got a completely new and comfortable one now.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:42 AM   #239
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i dont know. why is it called Dominant ?
I never really understood the names of chord functions. It seems that there are implied meanings, but I don't know what they are.

There are tons of examples where language of a system causes confusion (and artificial barriers). But sticking to music here, how about the names of the modes? Are the modes not functional as well? Then why continue with the archaic naming that describes nothing logical/functional? We might be better off describing them as the first mode, second mode, etc. And the same with chord functions. Maybe the same with intervals? Why do we not say the first, second, third... interval, mode, chord, chord function? Maybe some people like the aesthetics of these naming conventions, but they are vague or meaningless in reasoning.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:04 AM   #240
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I never really understood the names of chord functions. It seems that there are implied meanings, but I don't know what they are.

There are tons of examples where language of a system causes confusion (and artificial barriers). But sticking to music here, how about the names of the modes? Are the modes not functional as well? Then why continue with the archaic naming that describes nothing logical/functional? We might be better off describing them as the first mode, second mode, etc. And the same with chord functions. Maybe the same with intervals? Why do we not say the first, second, third... interval, mode, chord, chord function? Maybe some people like the aesthetics of these naming conventions, but they are vague or meaningless in reasoning.
Maybe a more in depth study of harmony would help you.
Certainly more than learning any "new system".
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