Old 08-15-2019, 05:14 PM   #1
svijayrathinam
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Default Performance issue with offline take FX (Solved)

I found an issue with this version..But it turns out its been there for a few versions before as well..(Also in the commercially released ones)

Steps to reproduce the issue.

1. Use at least around 600 instances of various plugins (collectively) as take fx
2, Select all items, right click and Render items as new take
3. Make all take FX offline.
4. Now try to render out a master mix or stems (selected tracks) via file menu Or try moving a bunch of tracks to a sub project.

Result : You will find it takes a very very long time for the process to start. Also when you play this project with a video file and hit save..The video stops for a while and you get the beach ball of death on a Mac..and it takes like 30 seconds to actually save it and then it plays fine. When you open such a project with 600 take fx plugins offline..it takes a very very long time to load the project too.

What I don't understand is every plugin in the project is offline. So I would expect reaper to treat the offline plugins as "plugins that are not in project". Its very clear Reaper isn't doing this.

Temporary work around:

1. Do a Save as of your current project
2. Go to project bay.
3. in the FX Tab, you will find all the offline plugins.
4. Right click and remove from project bay.
5. Now perform render via file menu or move a bunch of tracks to sub project.

Result : Reaper flies like a 747 and when you save the project while playback..it hardly causes any stutter in video playback. This project also opens very very fast.

As you can see the temporary workaround is very time consuming if I have to go back to a previous take and tweak any plugin..I have to load the other version and do it and then copy paste into current project (where I have removed offline take fx)..This becomes more and more complicated on a FX heavy Netflix series that I am working on.

I kindly request the developers to help here.


P.S : An action to remove inactive take fx would also help. Now I am opening project bay to do this very often.

Last edited by svijayrathinam; 08-26-2019 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:32 PM   #2
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(I moved this to the BR forum : ) )

Does it matter which plug-in it is? Here I used ReaComp and it is still very fast to do everything. Do your plug-ins have large state? Not sure why that would affect playback start but still. Can you run spindump on REAPER while it beachballs to get a trace?

Last edited by Justin; 08-15-2019 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 08-16-2019, 06:15 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
(I moved this to the BR forum : ) )

Does it matter which plug-in it is? Here I used ReaComp and it is still very fast to do everything. Do your plug-ins have large state? Not sure why that would affect playback start but still. Can you run spindump on REAPER while it beachballs to get a trace?

I am using a variety of plugins.

here is a project file for you to test.

https://drive.google.com/a/audiovill...w?usp=drivesdk

Also..How do I run a spin dump ? I am sorry I googled and can't find anything that tells me how to do it. Can you pls help ?
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Old 08-16-2019, 06:46 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svijayrathinam View Post
I am using a variety of plugins.

here is a project file for you to test.

https://drive.google.com/a/audiovill...w?usp=drivesdk

Also..How do I run a spin dump ? I am sorry I googled and can't find anything that tells me how to do it. Can you pls help ?
when it is hanging, run from a terminal: "sudo spindump REAPER"
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Old 08-16-2019, 06:52 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
when it is hanging, run from a terminal: "sudo spindump REAPER"
Thank you..Pls find link to the result of the spin dump

https://drive.google.com/a/audiovill...w?usp=drivesdk
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:10 AM   #6
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Thanks, looks like a lot of it is Altiverb reinitializing.

Two things:

1) if you do it all with ReaComps, does it still hang?

2) Do you have all of the FX in the project offline, or just bypassed? If they are offline, then no plug-in code should be loaded at all, making this spindump not possible... Hmmm.

Having said that, Altiverb seems to be resampling its impulses; Is it possible that the samplerate used for processing is changing? E.g. when you render it is at a different rate than the audio device? If you can avoid samplerate changes that would probably reduce the pauses caused by Altiverb changing rates. But at any rate if the FX are all offline this should be moot.

Last edited by Justin; 08-16-2019 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:53 AM   #7
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1. I tried to do it with only reacomp and it doesn't slow it down. But if I do it with a variety of plugins it does slow things down

2. I normally dont have any plugins bypasses. they are either active or offline. For example the project I sent you to test has 108 altiverb instances online and about 620 altiverb instances offline. I try my best to reduce the active take fx plugin counts as much as possible. I make them offline with a custom action in which there is a X ray M custom script which he developed for my workflow.

"X-raym_set inactive take fx of selected items offline".

perhaps reaper still thinks that these plugins are active ?

having said that I used the same script to make reacomp offline and I had no issues.

Yes..I have a lot of different sample rate files in the project. But when I render them they are all getting rendered to the project/device sample rate.

yes..I dont understand why this problem is happening as the 70% of plugins are offline.

A suggestion :

in the recent pre releases you included a new action to "item: force inactive take source media offline". Thats made a huge difference in performance for a heavy user like me.
Can you also make "item: force inactive take fx offline" ?

I have a strong feeling since I am making the plugins offline through a script reaper still thinks they are active...

What do you say ?

Would you like me to test something else ?

thank you for all your help.
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:02 AM   #8
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Hmm is the action you’re using actually offlining the plugins? Or is it just bypassing? If you open the take FX what does it show?
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:15 AM   #9
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it shows the plugins are offline. I can see plugins offline even in project bay under fx tab.

But when I remove these offlined plugins..reaper runs as it should.

which is how it should be when they are offline..

This is why I suspect..perhaps reaper is actually not off lining the plugin processing..?

I may be wrong here..

But I see massive performance difference when the offlined plugins are removed.
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:16 AM   #10
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https://drive.google.com/a/audiovill...w?usp=drivesdk


pls check that project file..you will see exactly what's going on
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svijayrathinam View Post
https://drive.google.com/a/audiovill...w?usp=drivesdk


pls check that project file..you will see exactly what's going on
OK, I've loaded this project, but of course I lack most of the FX. Most of the Altiverbs are offline, however there are still 110 of them that are online in the project...
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:10 PM   #12
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But if you remove the offline ones from the project and render using the file menu..reaper is amazingly fast..But with the offline ones still inside the project its very very slow. Thats the problem.

infact even if I render 110 active ones..and have all altiverbs offline reaper is still very slow to start rendering
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Old 08-16-2019, 01:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svijayrathinam View Post
But if you remove the offline ones from the project and render using the file menu..reaper is amazingly fast..But with the offline ones still inside the project its very very slow. Thats the problem.

infact even if I render 110 active ones..and have all altiverbs offline reaper is still very slow to start rendering
Can you open that last project you posted, remove all of the inactive altiverbs, save it, and send that?
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Old 08-16-2019, 01:13 PM   #14
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Here it is...


https://drive.google.com/a/audiovill...w?usp=drivesdk
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:21 PM   #15
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Hmm, very odd.

Do you have any background projects open? It is worth noting that background projects will get their FX reinitialized in this instance, which could contribute unexpected behavior.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to why the spindump shows so much time being spent in the Altiverb AUs -- can you try setting _ALL_ Altiverb completely offline in the project and see if it still does it? If so, make a spindump of that?
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:31 PM   #16
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I normally have a few background projects opened. But not on this occasion.


But I just checked..I rendered all altiverbs and made every single one of them offline...and then reaper works fine....What can I do to overcome this issue ?
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:41 PM   #17
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Can you doublecheck to see that "block size to use when rendering" in preferences/rendering is left blank?

Let me see if this is correct:

With all altiverbs offlined: rendering starts fast
With some altiverbs online, none offlined: fast
Some altiverbs online, most altiverbs offlined: slow?

This really isn't adding up! We'll get to the bottom of it eventually.
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Old 08-17-2019, 05:01 AM   #18
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"Can you doublecheck to see that "block size to use when rendering" in preferences/rendering is left blank?"


Yes..Block size is left blank in my settings.



" With all altiverbs offlined: rendering starts fast
With some altiverbs online, none offlined: fast
Some altiverbs online, most altiverbs offlined: slow?"


Yes..This is correct. This is what's happening
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Old 08-26-2019, 03:31 PM   #19
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Justin .. I finally got to the bottom of it !! Turns out this is not at all a reaper issue . It’s the behaviour of every convolution reverb. Even if I have like 5 or 6 instances of convolution reverb plugin as take Fx..rendering takes a long time to start !!

The only exception to this is waves IR live. I tried having 700 instances of waves IR live in one project as take Fx and hit render .. rendering started instantly!! So I say this problem is solved !!

Thank you so much justin for looking into this
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