Old 04-28-2014, 04:46 PM   #1
babiuk
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Default Vintage VU meter request

I am trying to get a vintage style VU meter. I use Klanghelm and it is 100% ok, but I'm into an aesthethical project customising reaper and I would like to use a new VU meter for 4 channels, I mean something like the NAS ReapVU(just 4 channels in this case) but using an specific image:



Here you have the ReapVU, for remembering:



I donīt know how to do it, is there anybody who could help me to do it? Or at least give me a little info in order to begin to do it?

Thanks
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Old 04-29-2014, 08:23 AM   #2
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Any cue on this?

I am thinking about the possibility of learning to open and edit a vumeter dll and adding a new GUI, is it possible?
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:34 AM   #3
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the only thing I can tell you is that it would be possible to take that graphic you have and with some skill in Photoshop, to create a set of png files that appeared to make the needle move..
It's quite a bit of work, ...I have done this for some skins [GUI] meter for Nebula 3.

Even if you do this, there is the question of needle calibration.
In other words, you can only have a given number of needle images.. say 36 or 50 ..whatever.. and then you need a way to assign each of those to some db value... you see?
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:12 PM   #4
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OK, thanks a lot!
So it is a matter of brute force attack.
This is not a problem, it's just a lot of work but it can be done.

Let's assume I have the images, so I should create a stack png like the knob stack png images? And how should I use it? Do the meters accept a knob behaviour like "...fadermode [1]"?

PS: I am a nebulite too but I didnīt know the VU meters for some skins were done this way... now I know it I respect even more and more the 3party developers
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Old 04-29-2014, 04:14 PM   #5
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Walter providers only a rectangle for the meters which is displayed partially in height or width, depending on the value to be displayed. Images or image strips are not used there.
It is not possible (at least for me) to create a "digit" of constant length and changing angle from this shrinking and growing rectangle, even with transparency tricks, as a vu meter will stay constant in height.

One might think of a meter bar that is created independently of Walter and gets its feed trough the reaper API and would show all active channels.
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Old 04-29-2014, 04:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
One might think of a meter bar that is created independently of Walter and gets its feed trough the reaper API and would show all active channels.
I donīt understand this.
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Old 04-29-2014, 04:57 PM   #7
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Anyway I am realizing it is impossible to use a VU meter inside reaper...
My other chance is making a plugin like ReapvU with this graphics. I just did a png with 128 images for needle positions. Could anybody help to modify/editing ReapVU with them or creating a new one?
Is it possible?
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Old 04-29-2014, 05:21 PM   #8
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Did you look at JS: Liteon/vumetergfx? It draws lines for the needle.

I've made speedometers for video games. I used one background picture and the speed was indicated by a picture of a needle that was rotated.
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babiuk View Post
I donīt understand this.
Sorry,
Like in the mockup image, a meterbridge that is showing one pair of vu vu-meters per track. If you create one more channel, a pair will be added , if you remove one track, a pair will be removed.

Values come from the channels.

This will not be a vst, as it it bound to all tracks, not one, and will not be part of the tcp/mcp system.
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Old 04-29-2014, 11:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Sorry,
Like in the mockup image, a meterbridge that is showing one pair of vu vu-meters per track. If you create one more channel, a pair will be added , if you remove one track, a pair will be removed.

Values come from the channels.

This will not be a vst, as it it bound to all tracks, not one, and will not be part of the tcp/mcp system.
Thanks for info! Itīs a great idea.
I see this thing would be fine for me. But is something you have done before or at least you know how to do it? Is not a VST? How would it be made?
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Old 04-29-2014, 11:26 PM   #11
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right the problems come quickly don't they?

I see that you first thought you could used these meters in a reaper theme... I did not understand that at first... but at this time, that can not be done AFAIK

the best choice would be a vst plugin that used them... now that could be tricky and I'm not a vst coder, but if you find one let's talk...

I'd like to see your png files just for fun and maybe for some help...

128 needles is way too many I'd think...

Now I could scheme a trick way of doing this but let's not go there until you see if you can find a vst programmer to help.
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:53 AM   #12
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I asked for this about a year ago ...

meter_stack.png
main_meter_stack.png
main_meter_rms_stack.png

Make the very last splice the "clip" image, and otherwise it gets handled just like knob_stack.png images.

Also needed, is the ability to have a horizontal master meter (VU meters are mostly horizontal) ... which isn't possible in Reaper ATM.
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Old 04-30-2014, 02:56 AM   #13
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A bit off topic, but where did you get that ReapVU? Looks great!
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
right the problems come quickly don't they?

I see that you first thought you could used these meters in a reaper theme... I did not understand that at first... but at this time, that can not be done AFAIK

the best choice would be a vst plugin that used them... now that could be tricky and I'm not a vst coder, but if you find one let's talk...

I'd like to see your png files just for fun and maybe for some help...

128 needles is way too many I'd think...

Now I could scheme a trick way of doing this but let's not go there until you see if you can find a vst programmer to help.
Thanks. I am at iphone now, I'll send png when at home. I made 128 images because I saw another VUmeter png file with 128.

A request: Any vst programmer here could help on this?
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
I asked for this about a year ago ...

meter_stack.png
main_meter_stack.png
main_meter_rms_stack.png

Make the very last splice the "clip" image, and otherwise it gets handled just like knob_stack.png images.

Also needed, is the ability to have a horizontal master meter (VU meters are mostly horizontal) ... which isn't possible in Reaper ATM.
Thanks for that.
I dont understand, is it a feature request you asked for? Or it is something which work?
Excuse me but english is not my first language and I am maybe a little confused.
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feverdreamer View Post
A bit off topic, but where did you get that ReapVU? Looks great!
I think it's upload at stash repository, I don't remember exactly but search for ReapVU there
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:32 AM   #17
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I know this is gonna be a bit of a tease, but take a look:

[IMG]http://***************/a/img834/3927/brf.gif[/IMG]
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:22 PM   #18
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hopi

that looks pretty damned good to me
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:49 PM   #19
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yeah thanks... but it's really a trick... what you see is only part of something...

Now I might be able to use this trick to help the OP get what he wants... however it could be a bit tedious ...

I'd be OK helping with the graphics but it really would be better IF we had a proper VST programmer on hand.
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Old 04-30-2014, 03:46 PM   #20
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Hopi,

Good idea, yes! I think you are using a Neb instace where you can control de skin, isn't it?
It is OK! And I will use just mono tracks and channels so it doesnt matter the fact that neb shows just one meter for input.

Anyway it would be better if someone could help with VST programming or editing the ReapVU in order to change its skin

Here I attach a png


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Old 04-30-2014, 04:42 PM   #21
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ah hey good for you ...yer a smarty...

Yes a cheat via a Neb skin.... and that could be done with Nebula Free... so it really is 'doable'

btw... nice work on the png stack... and that might work great if we had a vst programmer...

However it is way to many to use for a Neb skin... plus we are never gonna get perfect read out accuracy...
a decent Neb skin would use 30-36 png files, but it does not use a png stack.
The most efficient method is to have just one meter face on the GUI background and then have it draw only the needles over that.
[I have tried it both ways, fyi]

Now what it certainly can have is stereo meters.
It needs to have two for the input side and two for the output side.
Since all the other controls are meaning less for this use, they could be made invisible in the skin...
Just for the hellavit, I took your original meter example and did some PS work on it... slightly toned to be 'more vintage'...

I have it like this with 33 needles
so here is the look with just one needle:
[IMG]http://imagizer.**************/v2/xq90/835/7ux7.png[/IMG]
oh and btw, the needles all have shadows...

PS: I could have the meter face bright white easily but thought the 'dirt' looked better.
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:06 PM   #22
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oh btw I dl'd and looked at that png stack...

AFAIK, it is not quite right... there are big gaps between each frame and also the deadly accurate size of each frame seems to slip a bit...

normally a png stack is each frame followed by another with little or no space between... and then also, each frame must be exactly the same so that we don't get a jumpy movie.. right?

Now I'm not saying I know it all, but when I do this sort of work in PS, I try to work at 300 dpi and then later take what I produce and use a couple ways to resample down to what is better for the onscreen use.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:24 AM   #23
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I did the stack strip using knobman and yes it's a gap because when I rendered it took a while an I didnt notice the size of frame was not right but I didnt want to wait again, anyway it was just for proof. But I think the gap is always the same because when I use knobman for it the results work fine

Btw nice work yours!!!
The neb way is ok but Its needles never seem fine for me so I hope some coder lends us a hand...
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:46 PM   #24
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when you say 'needles never look ok' to you ... are you saying:

1-they don't seem smooth or accurate enough, or...
2-you have a problem reading the db from the needle..

or what exactly?
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Old 05-01-2014, 04:11 PM   #25
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Hehe, I am a Nebula lover, (Nebula changed my life!) so millions of excuses if it sounded bad.

Nope, I didnīt choose best words, I just meant about the not so smooth movement, my computer is not atomic power and I have to suffer high latency for being able to load several instances(although this is not a real problem for me) so the meter through neb is not too real time or accurate for me(I mean for me, maybe someone with a powerful PC has not this kind of issues).

Apart from this, the reading of db's is not a problem for me anyway because I donīt mind it, for me itīs just a RMS matter and I donīt look at the numbers(they are just cosmetics for my plans). I use Klanghelm's with slow movement in RMS and just take care of being in or out the red zone set at -18(knowing what this is). The RMS needle movement is so useful for me, but on the other side, I dont feel the same about the peak needle, it is not death or live for me.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:41 PM   #26
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well then for what it's worth...

today I made this as a special skin for Neb3
here you can see it running
sorry but there is some ugly in the image due to LICECap
in reality it looks very clean.

[IMG]http://***************/a/img834/7128/u4f.gif[/IMG]

I have it running in it's own process just to eliminate the extra FX window stuff at the top...

so you can see it's got stereo In and Out meters
Now one thing I've learned about Neb meters and reaper is that if you really want the best read, don't just put the Neb on the track with the audio.. put it on it's own track and send the audio to it.... well, this is really just for stereo meters.

I can send you the N2S file if you want it and if you know how to use it so you don't mess with your other Neb's. Or we can talk about it.
FYI, this uses 72 needle pngs...
PS... what you see in the diff needle movement is cuz I have the track panned..
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:45 PM   #27
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PSS... now I suppose variations could be made... like showing only the input meters... or even showing just one meter
or one in and one out... but then if you use stereo tracks you might not get a reading at all... or if you panned the tracks
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Old 05-02-2014, 02:52 AM   #28
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That's great!!! It looks nice the needle movement. It seems that high number of needle positions is really an enhancement.

I don't use to use stereo tracks, they mostly are mono, and I am thinking about using a neb instance for 2 mono channels sending one to left and other to right. This way I just need 2 nebs because the workflow I'm trying to develop implies just 4 mono busses receiving all tracks. Of course I would thank you if you were so kind to share ns2.

I will try your advice about using a separate track for metering sending a track to the neb one, but I can not see what is the difference. Is there anything regarding just to reaper?

About the in/out meters, if we use neb just for metering I think I will need just one of them(in or out) because they must be identical. Is this true or I am missing anything?

Anyway, neb can use 1 or 2 channels, do you think we can set it for using more than 2?

Thanks again for taking the time for this.
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Old 05-02-2014, 07:35 AM   #29
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bab... afaik the most you can have is 4 meters in Neb but I could be wrong... I have seen on the forums for the acqua plugins there is some way to add more meters but I don't think they are for things like multi track or say for surround... and again I don't think that ability is part of Neb3 at this time.

yes, more meter needles and then the calibration of each one in the xml file that makes the skin can give a better appearing meter.

I will be working on yet another test with even more needles and also with a smaller meter size.

Now what I do may not be exactly what you want, so here's a thought:

you could get into learning to make skins for Neb3. I'd be OK sharing with you what I've learned and also the graphics needed.
It is not terribly hard... but it can be tedious.

Also lets think through the mono stereo thing a bit more.
It may be that what you really want would be several instances of a meter only skin..
So let's start with sending you the N2S file as it is atm.
I'll be right back with a link.
Ok here ya go:

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/20538/VU%20METERS.rar

So when you get that working, let's talk about how your mono tracks work in it.
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:19 AM   #30
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Ever Onward:
New smaller version with 120 needles
what this does better is deal with the very low end of the db range which is normally hardly shown in Neb skins...

I don't yet have this compiled to N2S, just running from a folder atm for testing.
It may well not be 'perfect' but it is nearby.

Later I will see about cutting it show ONLY one IN meter which might work for a single INput mono thing.
we have to remember that in and out of the track are sort of meaningless since the meters are showing what Neb sees as in and out as it goes thru Neb. So likely the outputs are sort of meaningless for this purpose. But now I have them to use later in a full Neb skin...


[IMG]http://***************/a/img838/4673/dgy.gif[/IMG]
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:42 PM   #31
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OK I think we have it dialed in:

you can dl the new 2 meter skin here:

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/20545/RVU%2...NGLE%20120.rar

here is the look:

[IMG]http://***************/a/img845/6228/q65o.gif[/IMG]

so for those that may not know... this will work with the free version of Neb3 as well... BUT you will need to know how to create the extra dll and xml files to do that.

If you are an old hand with Neb you likely know about that

Hopefully this one is nice and small but still visible, and 'vintage' enough... and has a fine enough set of needles ...there are 120 of the little suckers.
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Old 05-02-2014, 02:23 PM   #32
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WOWWWW!!!!!!!!!!

Hopi, you are incredible, what a wonderful work!
I am looking forward to get it at home. I will tell you then.

Thanks a million...
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:55 PM   #33
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I just tried your new meter skin hopi, and it is in mono even though my nebula instance is set to stereo. Weird. I moved the pan 100% left or right and both meters kept jumping. What's up with that?
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:07 PM   #34
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I like this

Instead of making 100+ frames for the needle, is there a way for you to make a single needle image and rotate it based on input level? This is what my Mono/StereoChannel plugins are doing. Might give you a little smoother animation and lower ram usage.

I might have to play around with this idea for one of my plugins. Keep up the good work!
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:14 PM   #35
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I just tried your new meter skin hopi, and it is in mono even though my nebula instance is set to stereo. Weird. I moved the pan 100% left or right and both meters kept jumping. What's up with that?
Richie... remember this is a hack but.. I think what you are describing is one of the things I've noticed about neb and skins...

so hey, you'd be a fine one to test as I have:

do not put the meters directly on an audio track...
put them on their own aux and send to it... then see if you do in fact see the L and R pan have the affect you want.
I would like to hear back from YOU on this.

Now during the course of my skin game, I have seen exactly this same behavior with any neb skin ... of course they need to have stereo meters to even get a look.

So PLEASE try it both ways... one directly on the track and one on a aux... send to the buss and leave master parent on there, but off on the track being sent.
Also.. do try it with both the bigger 4 meter IN and OUT skin as well as the little one that only shows the L and R input meters.

thanks
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:22 PM   #36
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I like this

Instead of making 100+ frames for the needle, is there a way for you to make a single needle image and rotate it based on input level? This is what my Mono/StereoChannel plugins are doing. Might give you a little smoother animation and lower ram usage.

I might have to play around with this idea for one of my plugins. Keep up the good work!
I am not sure we are talking the same thing, but maybe...

I'd like to know what 'your plugins' are that you mention.
Now, with that said, I have to live in the confines of the rules for Nebula skins and what they allow and how they work. I have collaborated in the past with at least one other vst programmer but we had to use very similar things for his GUI's ...

So I'd really like to know what you have in mind.
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
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Richie... remember this is a hack but.. I think what you are describing is one of the things I've noticed about neb and skins...

so hey, you'd be a fine one to test as I have:

do not put the meters directly on an audio track...
put them on their own aux and send to it... then see if you do in fact see the L and R pan have the affect you want.
I would like to hear back from YOU on this.

thanks
You are correct. So as-is, this can't be used on the master buss as a last insert.. Interesting little project, but not super useful yet..... Next step is to have this functionality (and more) and as a "normal" vst instead of a Nebula. Right now it is an expensive and sort of elite meter!!
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Old 05-02-2014, 10:40 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
You are correct. So as-is, this can't be used on the master buss as a last insert.. Interesting little project, but not super useful yet..... Next step is to have this functionality (and more) and as a "normal" vst instead of a Nebula. Right now it is an expensive and sort of elite meter!!
yes so we see the same thing... and I totally agree it could be better as a real vst...
but so far no vst codehead has stepped up to the plate. So the OP wanted a certain look and this is as close as I can provide.

in fact I'd think it could be way better as a real vst in that it could done as a meter bridge and also as single LR dll's...
..as to expensive? well for my time which is priceless, yes indeed... totally unaffordable! on the other hand for users who want to bother, it's actually free since it could work with the free version of Neb3... right toe?

For me it's been a bit of a challenge.. and as ever I learn from taking those on... and I have from this one.

I think we'll get a normal neb skin with 4 meters out of the affair and I 'think' they will be the best vintage style meters for any neb skin that I've seen. And, not that it's a big deal... but you know... one more step.

On the other hand 15 bucks will get you this which is likely much better:
http://pspaudioware.com/plugins/tool...s/psp_2meters/
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Last edited by hopi; 05-02-2014 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:02 PM   #39
richie43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
yes so we see the same thing... and I totally agree it could be better as a real vst...
but so far no vst codehead has stepped up to the plate. So the OP wanted a certain look and this is as close as I can provide.

in fact I'd think it could be way better as a real vst in that it could done as a meter bridge and also as single LR dll's...
..as to expensive? well for my time which is priceless, yes indeed... totally unaffordable! on the other hand for users who want to bother, it's actually free since it could work with the free version of Neb3... right toe?

For me it's been a bit of a challenge.. and as ever I learn from taking those on... and I have from this one.



I think we'll get a normal neb skin with 4 meters out of the affair and I 'think' they will be the best vintage style meters for any neb skin that I've seen. And, not that it's a big deal... but you know... one more step.

On the other hand 15 bucks will get you this which is likely much better:
http://pspaudioware.com/plugins/tool...s/psp_2meters/
Indeedy.
For meters, I much prefer the Klanghelm meters, just a preference thing.
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:11 AM   #40
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yeah I think you are right... a better choice

in fact, with the few options that are out there as vst, I wonder why the OP did not just use those... ?

but whatever... we will get another neb skin for the effort...

I do kinda like the smallness of these and I have learned a shootload more about how to use lotta needles in a skin. [damn that sounds like junkie talk don't it...] well didn't mean it that way... more in the voodoo way... hahaha
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