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View Poll Results: Do you like Reaper's logo and splash-screen?
Yes 74 42.29%
No 101 57.71%
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Old 12-14-2006, 11:58 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
Hang in there Zender.....soon we'll have the entire Sony forum family over here, and then we can start bitching at one another again, and have the reunited dysfunctional family reunion...LOL!!
You might be right there redmondo...

Even I seem to be spending a bit more time lurking around here lately.
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Old 12-15-2006, 01:12 AM   #82
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Don’t know if the anti-marketing thing will work as well for a ‘serious’ audio app as it did for a ‘fun’ mp3 player.

Because of its quirky name and logo a great many people will always consider Reaper to be a toy. Doesn’t matter what features it has or how well they are implemented.

Musicians are a very conservative bunch when it comes to this sort of stuff. Just look at protools, it’s interface is shocking and it is massively, massively overpriced. But people lap it up because it is what the big boys use.

It is not by chance that so many apps have ‘Pro’ in there name. Every kid is trying to climb the ladder, and trying to make there stuff sound like the ‘pros’. (There are always going to be exceptions to the rule but the massive majority of people fit this type of profile)

Projects like this seem to start out as fun, but get more serious as time goes on. I reckon if the fruity loops guys could change one thing about their story it would be the name of the app. If they had given it a bland meaningless name (like most of the other apps have) and changed a few things about their marketing the app would be taken far more ‘seriously’ and would sell way more copies. Reckon the same goes for Sony with apps named ACID and Vegas.

At the time those probably seemed like great fun names. But things can change over time...There are reasons why the beastie boys aren’t still writing songs like ‘Fight for your right to party’...

But Justin might be happy singing ‘Fight for your right to party’ for years to come, who knows.
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Old 12-15-2006, 02:50 AM   #83
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Hmm. Maybe "Pro Reaper" then

And I don't agree with Pro Tools being overpriced btw, look at Cubase, there is an overpriced app. (Pro Tools M-Powered sells for the equivalent of $400 in sweden, Cubase is $1200)
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Old 12-15-2006, 04:40 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zendar View Post
the ageing rocker fanbase (no offence guys)
Oh man! I turn 22 and am instantly become an "ageing rocker" :P


Weighing in on the Christian point of view (from sunny England) I personally am happy to use Reaper. Fortunatly most of the people who might care at all are not interested in what a program can do but more what it can do so they are happy.
However I don't mention Jesusonic, mostly cause it confuses them.
"Its got Jesus in the title, is it a Christian program?"
Just wastes my time explaining that its just Justin being himself and isn't a "Christian" program (if such a thing can exist) This then makes them feel stupid (which often sadly they are for making such assumptions) and then they don't like it.

Then again I don't tell them names of the other plug-ins I'm using (unless they are interested in using it themselves, but those people don't care for a name, they care for a sound)

So in summary of this silly long post, I say keep the name/names. anyone who get offended by "Reaper" really had better give a better reason than religion.

/my £5 worth (around 10 dollars at current exchange )
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Old 12-15-2006, 08:17 AM   #85
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the main reason fruity loops changed their name was because
kelloggs was threatening them with a lawsuit (and still is)

and only remotely because fruity connotes gay in USA, and the program is hardly "loop" based.
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Old 12-15-2006, 09:28 AM   #86
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For what it's worth, i hesitated for some time to even try Reaper. And yes, it was because the name & logo seemed silly. I did the same with Fruity Loops. I figured anyone who was serious about producing (and maintaining) a decent recording product would market it in a reasonably serious manner. Before i put money down on a package, i want to be reasonably sure it'll be available and supported for the foreseeable future. I don't wanna offend whoever created the Reaper logo, but to me, any product sporting a cartoon character doesn't scream 'we're serious about what we do!'.

So, i was wrong, and i certainly was being a snob. Reaper is a great product, and from every indication, Justin is totally serious about its quality and longevity. But i've become convinced of that after using the product for awhile, from the quality and frequency of enhancements, and from hanging here in the forum... in spite of the marketing.

I'm not sure, but i'd guess i represent a fair number of hobbyists who are looking for an affordable recording package who simply wouldn't consider Reaper based soley on the name and logo. I got lucky in that several trusted friends gave it rave reviews. So i took a look and was blown away.

I'll use Reaper whether the name/logo are changed or not. But i want Reaper around for a long time. So i'm concerned about losing those other hobbyists who don't have friends to nudge them to give it a try. I spose Justin can afford to ignore that segment. He certainly has the right. But why ignore them if a change in marketing might convert them to paying customers and add longevity to the product?

i dunno... just a few random thoughts.


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Old 12-15-2006, 09:30 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
the main reason fruity loops changed their name was because
kelloggs was threatening them with a lawsuit (and still is)

and only remotely because fruity connotes gay in USA, and the program is hardly "loop" based.
Well I didn't know it was "fruity" loops, I was always thinking of something like this:
http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/300W/fs7...teenthhalo.jpg

But it made me remember fruit loops, both the app and the cerials.

But hey there are "fruity loops" serials, too
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Old 12-15-2006, 10:50 AM   #88
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Default two names

how 'bout two names, reaper, and maybe, planter. Have two concurrent websites, just change the surface candy, to make them appear different.

Then people would be arguing about which one was better =).
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Old 12-15-2006, 12:44 PM   #89
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Reaper name and logo - yay
glamourous marketing campaign - nay
hardcore fundamentalists of any religion - really nay

Like any great product Reaper will sell itself on it's merits. I can't say there is nothing in a name, when I see Jesus-anything I wonder if the gotta-convert-others-to-be-a-real-christian crowd are lurking near by (shudder). I say leave the Reaper developers to their own devices, they seem to be doing just fine.

If anyone here really wants to invest in a high glitz marketing campaign, maybe Justin could license out one of the early betas to us. We could skin it for mass appeal, make up lots of testosterone fueled names, high gloss ads, target marketing, etc. Then we integrate a dongle system, sell it for hundreds (thousands?) of dollars per copy to "serious" users, farm out call center support, do one minor upgrade after 8 months, and release a new full price "upgrade" of bug fixes every 12-18 months. Ha, now were in the big leagues!
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Old 12-15-2006, 01:02 PM   #90
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How about calling it "Fruity Occult Death Toy"?

And the logo could be a sparkly blue dinosaur with huge eyelashes wearing bondage regalia?

I think I might be really onto something here...
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Old 12-15-2006, 03:36 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marce View Post
Is the current splash image editable? I mean, is a separated png file?
no, you can resource-hack it though
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Old 12-15-2006, 03:38 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yep View Post
How about calling it "Fruity Occult Death Toy"?

And the logo could be a sparkly blue dinosaur with huge eyelashes wearing bondage regalia?

I think I might be really onto something here...
I'd pay for it! As long as I got a 30 day trial first...
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Old 12-15-2006, 04:52 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yep View Post
How about calling it "Fruity Occult Death Toy"?

And the logo could be a sparkly blue dinosaur with huge eyelashes wearing bondage regalia?

I think I might be really onto something here...
I'd buy that!
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Old 12-15-2006, 05:35 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earache View Post
Reaper name and logo - yay
glamourous marketing campaign - nay
hardcore fundamentalists of any religion - really nay

Like any great product Reaper will sell itself on it's merits.
Unfortunately the world just does not work that way. Are McDonalds and KFC the best food in the world or are they the best marketed? Are the top ten albums this week up there on their merits, or are they up there because of their marketing?

Reaper doesn’t have to completely sell out; it’s not a black and white situation, there are a million shades of grey. Like I said, it’s Justin’s choice; he can do whatever he wants.

Not suggesting that he has to sell his sole to the devil. Just saying that the ‘target market’ for a DAW is pretty different to that of an mp3 player and he might wanna be a little mindful of that.
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Old 12-15-2006, 05:48 PM   #95
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How about calling it "Fruity Occult Death Toy"?
The guys up in marketing had a really good meeting about it, came up with a lot of great ideas and they are really vibed about the name...But they were just wondering if you could change it just a little bit...They were thinking along the lines of "Fruity Occult Death Toy Pro"

What do ya think, pretty catchy hey.
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Old 12-15-2006, 05:53 PM   #96
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The Reaper guy is quite cute, but I also agree, that this powerful program should have a professional looking logo.

Like Xaake posted, the cakwalk or ableton logo are very good. Very simplistic, but nice!

See, I don't really care... Cause I like reaper, and I will use it

But, I heard from some guys, which never tryed reaper and said, that it is a kind of fun tool, or sometinging like that...

I know we can do good without such people... But nevertheless, this may attract more people.
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Old 12-15-2006, 06:00 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaake View Post
And I don't agree with Pro Tools being overpriced btw, look at Cubase, there is an overpriced app. (Pro Tools M-Powered sells for the equivalent of $400 in sweden, Cubase is $1200)
That would be the severely feature limited version. That is just their way of getting the customers in the door and to get them drooling over the big ticket products.

Agree with you that many of the DAWs are overpriced.
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Old 12-15-2006, 08:49 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yep View Post
How about calling it "Fruity Occult Death Toy"?

And the logo could be a sparkly blue dinosaur with huge eyelashes wearing bondage regalia?

I think I might be really onto something here...
Yes it's very nearly perfect - as detailed above the focus groups need a 'Pro' - we also need an 'i' prefix for the mac crew and a 'DJ' for good measure, plus something suggesting an increased level of user self-awareness, and a zeitgeist-straddling google-busting celebrity endorsement. We also need to kick the version revision up a notch to suggest app maturity.

So now we have: 'DJ Paris Hiltons Occult UltraJesus iFruity ReMixxx DeathMaster ZenGarage Pro Loop Mashup Sex 6.0'

We had to lose the 'toy' part as early adopter user feedback tells us people don't take it seriously.
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Old 12-15-2006, 09:19 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by zendar View Post
So now we have: 'DJ Paris Hiltons Occult UltraJesus iFruity ReMixxx DeathMaster ZenGarage Pro Loop Mashup Sex 6.0'
No, no, no, you can't get broad appeal in this additive way. You need to put forth a blank canvas upon which every potential user can visualize his or her aesthetic dreams of fame and folly. Something like "Ethereal Twit."

Hmm. That didn't quite get it. How about "Hegemonic Nihilist"?

Dang. Back to the focus groups.

John
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Old 12-15-2006, 10:45 PM   #100
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Guys, just trawl your way through any U2 song. They are the world champions of putting bunches of words together that sound impressive but don’t actually say or mean anything.
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Old 12-16-2006, 04:00 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weevil View Post
That would be the severely feature limited version. That is just their way of getting the customers in the door and to get them drooling over the big ticket products.

Agree with you that many of the DAWs are overpriced.
Tried to find feature comparison tables between different pro tools versions, but failed. From what I know, the difference between the 3 versions (LE, M-Powered and HD) is, apart from that M-Powered works on M-Audio soundcards, the max number of audio tracks, and which plugins that come with the package. LE has like max 16 audio tracks, M-Powered 32 and HD unlimited. My brother bought an M-Powered and apart from the standard plugins (which are very good indeed), he got a nice sampler with 4GB of good sounding samples of a wide variety (reminded me abit of the sample library in Reason). I think that is a fair deal for $400.
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Old 12-16-2006, 06:42 AM   #102
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Default No A Better name is

Fruity Ubersoft Cube Utility 2

The Logo?

um?

Ah got it:

Fuc U 2.
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:13 AM   #103
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Default Whoops sorry a play on words and above posts

went a bit far.
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Old 12-16-2006, 11:46 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmj View Post
Very cool! However, I should probably pony up for the software first, before spending money on T-shirts (heh heh). I plan to be "official" as soon as I get through the holidays...

I love the name "Reaper". Maybe the logo could be spiffed up a bit, but please don't mess with the name!


Reaper Madness!
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Old 12-16-2006, 11:51 AM   #105
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Default just to throw it out there...

IMHO, the logo and splash screen are okay as-is but could be improved.

The one thing that does bug me about them is that the reaper image is overly detailed to be a logo and doesn't scale down well, so it isn't very recognizable at icon size. Great logo designs are pretty much always simple--think Apple, IBM, FedEx, Nike, etc. I think Reaper might benefit from a simplified logo/icon that perhaps just focuses on the scythe part of the Reaper imagery...

That could then be tied into a new splash screen somehow. A couple thoughts off the top of my head: Maybe Reaper could be written out in all lowercase and the scythe could be used as the "r" letters? Or maybe have a sideways scythe below the Reaper name and use the handle as a progress bar or something?

Alas, I have neither time nor expertise to put anything together, but maybe someone else out there is interested. I like the idea of a design contest too...if the powers that be are amenable to that.

Bret

P.S. Bought my license this morning... Thanks Justin, Christophe, and all involved for great software that keeps getting better. Amazing.
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Old 12-16-2006, 12:19 PM   #106
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i don't care about the splash-screen anymore, as it's possible to disable it now


for the logo i would prefer something more modern, simple and techy looking ...
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Old 12-16-2006, 07:18 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaake View Post
Tried to find feature comparison tables between different pro tools versions, but failed. From what I know, the difference between the 3 versions (LE, M-Powered and HD) is, apart from that M-Powered works on M-Audio soundcards, the max number of audio tracks, and which plugins that come with the package. LE has like max 16 audio tracks, M-Powered 32 and HD unlimited. My brother bought an M-Powered and apart from the standard plugins (which are very good indeed), he got a nice sampler with 4GB of good sounding samples of a wide variety (reminded me abit of the sample library in Reason). I think that is a fair deal for $400.
...Yeah, like I already said I was talking about ‘real’ Pro Tools. Not the lite versions...
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:15 AM   #108
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Speaking of the Cubase imagery, my wife heard me repeatedly talking about Cubase, and then when she saw me using it she said, "Weird, I always figured it was spelled QBase."

That's good marketing.

Maybe Steinberg should buy www.qbase.com just in case.
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Old 12-17-2006, 11:55 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
FYI, Reaper stands for: Rapid Environment for Audio Prototyping and Efficient Recording.
Perhaps a name change such as the following may work.

New name: R.A.R.E.

"Rapid Audio Recording Environment"

or

"Robust Audio Recording Environment"

Rare is defined by dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rare) as:
"unusually excellent; admirable; fine:" Which I think are great adjectives which would lead to a great subconscious image being created when a prospective customer or client hears the name. It would have a broader appeal than the name "reaper", which I think appeals to a fairly extreme niche group, marketing-wise.

This name would allow for a logo which would not be limited to a single concept, such as "Reaper", which references a very standard image concept, the grim reaper. A logo could be based on either the acronym itself (RARE), or a shape (i.e. the SONAR logo) that has little to do with what the word rare stands for.

Again, this is just a idea of the direction I would suggest if the product is to be marketed to the professional audio recording demographic. However, if Reaper is to continue to be marketed to the groups that uses it now, none of this really matters...

-mr moon
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Old 12-18-2006, 07:45 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weevil View Post
...They were thinking along the lines of "Fruity Occult Death Toy Pro"

What do ya think, pretty catchy hey.
"Pro Fruity Occult Death Pro Studio Tools"

and the noncommercial license will be called

"Pro Amateur Fruity Occult Death Pro Studio Tools"

PS-- I think the notion that a product must have a serious name to be taken seriously in the marketplace is silly.

Yahoo
Google
Motherbucker guitar pickups
digitalfishphones
Blue Ball Microphones
Groove Tubes
Mercenary Audio

Are all companies or products that overlap the software or audio industry, and all are taken very seriously by potential customers, competitors, and investors.
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:33 AM   #111
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... much of the time names such as these are chosen to provide easy trademark registration plus providing the company as the "senior" originator of that name.

Creating a unique non-generic name in many ways is easier for branding and provides a more accurate hit-rate for web searching or marketing purposes.
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:38 AM   #112
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Me thinks that splash-logo is ok, I haven't disabled it and maybe I'll leave it that way. The real REAPER-logo should be something else, I just don't know what. Anyway, lovin' the whole package alot, keep it real and comin'!!!
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:25 AM   #113
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the name is fine. the logo is not.
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:53 AM   #114
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the name is fine. the logo is not.
Why not make a contest? announce it at kvr, devianart, etc. For sure some Graphic disegners looking for some promoting can be interested.
The price: mmm... a Reaper License?
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Old 12-18-2006, 07:27 PM   #115
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Warning: Lecture mode and long post ahead.

This is neither here nor there but because it seems clear that "Reaper" is here to stay, perhaps more thinking about the inherent associations is in order. The Grim Reaper is a personification of death, but through the scythe, also associated with the harvest, and thus the cycle of life. I mentioned earlier in this thread or another the traditional ballad recorded by Traffic "John Barleycorn Must Die." Here the barley (John Barleycorn) is buried in the ground and declared dead. Of course, the barley grows up again:

They've let him lie for a very long time,
Till the rains from heav'n did fall.
And little Sir John sprung up his head,
And so amazed them all.

They've let him stand 'till midsummer's day,
Till he looked both pale and wan.
And little Sir John's grown a long, long beard,
And so become a man.

They've hired men with scythes so sharp,
To cut him off at the knee.
They've rolled him and tied him by the waist,
Serving him most barb'rously.

You can see all the lyrics here:

http://www.holysmoke.org/wicca/johnb.htm

Ironically, it's a Wiccan site.

The men do many more bad things to John Barleycorn, including grinding him between two stones. Eventually, he turns into an alcoholic beverage. And of course, eventually, back into the ground with him.

Clearly the Reaper, with his scythe, is a symbol first of death and then of rebirth. It's not a Christian symbol, however. It's a lot older. When the Reaper comes, it means it is your time, you are ripe, you are ready.

Now the Blue Oyster Cult song, "Don't Fear the Reaper" is another thing altogether. That song is about suicide, which is not what the Grim Reaper is about at all. The record is a great record. I really like the moment in the solo when the guitarist shakes the note and the fundamental disappears, leaving only high harmonics. Perhaps this is an auditory metaphor for the soul leaving the body? However, the song itself is pernicious, in my view, celebrating suicide as it does. I am sure others will disagree. At any rate, they are misusing the concept of the Reaper, who comes when it is your time, not before.

All this stuff is pretty hard to market, even ironically. Great software though.

John
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Old 12-19-2006, 12:37 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yep View Post
PS-- I think the notion that a product must have a serious name to be taken seriously in the marketplace is silly.

Yahoo
Google
Motherbucker guitar pickups
digitalfishphones
Blue Ball Microphones
Groove Tubes
Mercenary Audio

Are all companies or products that overlap the software or audio industry, and all are taken very seriously by potential customers, competitors, and investors.
It’s a meaningless comparison because none of those products are DAWs. It’s perfectly acceptable to call your dog Fido, but it might not be quite as an appropriate name for your daughter.

Like I said, personally I don’t really care what the thing is called or what the splash screen looks like.

I’m just saying that a quirky name and cutesy wootsey splash screen is not great advertising for an app that wants itself taken seriously.

Try going to a serious job interview wearing a t-shirt that says ‘Party on dude’ and see how far you get.
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Old 12-19-2006, 12:56 AM   #117
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I answered no. The name is good, logo and logotype are not... visual image is quite important in creating perceived value for any product.

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Old 12-19-2006, 01:25 AM   #118
Alistair S
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You know, the buying public can be somewhat unsophisticated.

If you really want the perceived value to go up, the way to do it is by price.

Arguably, the demographic people are talking about targeting don't want to believe that a product this cheap is better than the one they forked out $$$$$ or ££££ for.

Fiddling with a logo won't change that.

I hope the price remains low.

Or create a rebadged version and put the price sky high on that version, while keeping Reaper as an alternative for the sane.
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:29 AM   #119
mr. moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistair S View Post
You know, the buying public can be somewhat unsophisticated.
Generally, I'd have to agree with you ...but I think we're discussing a more sophisticated demographic (DAW software users), which includes image-conscious professional studios, rather than the general population.

That is my point; if Reaper hopes to be more accepted by the professional demographic, the product needs to be marketed in a more professional manner.

If Reaper wants to remain in it's current niche market, it's marketing strategy (name, etc.) doesn't need to be modified in any manner whatsoever.

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Old 12-19-2006, 08:47 AM   #120
Youn
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you can also argue that most "professionals" are actually teenage wankers and the real people making real music are smart enough not to give a damn about this and actually would rather leave it disgusting looking to weed away the faker-wannabes
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