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Old 09-24-2016, 02:21 PM   #321
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
I don't want to be one of those conspiracy guys but I think Ollie is just afraid ReaperNet is going to hurt the success of REAPER.
I've always thought you to be a nice smart guy, but for some reason you decided to turn my thread into a clown car. I really wish you had not.
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Old 09-24-2016, 02:25 PM   #322
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What makes you think the devs in such a small company have time to do what are essentially marketing focus group meetings? Silliness. Should they ask your permission before adding other new features too? When did you appoint yourself CEO and marketing director? This is their tool, their vision. They can develop it anyway they like. If you don't like it, jump ship. They don't owe you anything more than the license you already bought. IMO Cockos is among the most responsive DAW companies out there. You want frustration? Buy an Avid product. Their focus is strictly on ways to milk money from the users. (i.e. "collaboration for a fee")

You mentioned you're an SE by profession. If so, then you're a part-time Reaper user. For goodness sake man, use the tool instead of complaining about it. IMO it's the best DAW on the market, and it's among the most inexpensive. Would I like some features to work differently? Yes. But it works really well as is.
Suggesting constructive ideas is not complaining. Maybe the ideas are not in the cards but having civil conversations about the ideas is reasonable and does not warrant pitchforks.
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Old 09-24-2016, 02:47 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by drichard View Post
What makes you think the devs in such a small company have time to do what are essentially marketing focus group meetings? Silliness. Should they ask your permission before adding other new features too? When did you appoint yourself CEO and marketing director? This is their tool, their vision. They can develop it anyway they like. If you don't like it, jump ship. They don't owe you anything more than the license you already bought. IMO Cockos is among the most responsive DAW companies out there. You want frustration? Buy an Avid product. Their focus is strictly on ways to milk money from the users. (i.e. "collaboration for a fee")

You mentioned you're an SE by profession. If so, then you're a part-time Reaper user. For goodness sake man, use the tool instead of complaining about it. IMO it's the best DAW on the market, and it's among the most inexpensive. Would I like some features to work differently? Yes. But it works really well as is.
even a company of one should do user studies - there are lots of methods that are quick and easy and yield excellent results. In some ways Reaper does do user studies through the forums, but I am not convinced forums are the avenue Reaper needs. My students found Steve Krug useful and fun eg https://www.amazon.com/Think-Common-.../dp/0789723107 and lots of videos. But there are stacks of methods about that Reaper devs could use.
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Old 09-24-2016, 03:29 PM   #324
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I've always thought you to be a nice smart guy, but for some reason you decided to turn my thread into a clown car. I really wish you had not.
My apologies if you think I've done you wrong.

In reading the original post again, I'm not sure where you expected this to go.

IMHO, you were either looking for a reaction or you're a bit naive about the internet and how threads like this develop. Or devolve.

If your goal was to get the dev team to agree and turn their product into a "DAW by committee". I really have no response to that. It's really beyond the scope of human understanding on my part.

If you really do have experience creating and managing software with a team, than you understand what a nightmare it is. True. It's not rocket science but it's less of "everybody gets what they want" and more of "everyone is equally unhappy".

But that's still nothing close to what you're suggesting here.

I spent almost 3 months designing a test with Ethan Winer on how to test the difference between two audio convertors. Just two convertors. And we allowed everyone on GS to decide the best way to conduct it so that we could all agree on the results. That thread went on for probably 30+ pages and in the end, we never even conducted the test. Magnify that to FRs for REAPER and you'll see my point.

Everyone has an opinion and believe it or not, everyone thinks theirs is the best.

All the best.
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Old 09-24-2016, 03:36 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by woggle View Post
even a company of one should do user studies
According to who? (or is it whom?)

This reminds me of that time when Steven Colbert decided to take over the Late Show and everyone was afraid he wouldn't be funny anymore.

Forgetting that HE is the funny one. Not US. He's the one who created that character. Not US. We've just been watching him. A much easier task if you ask me.

So instead of us (the users) deciding what's best for the company that created the software that we love. Maybe THEY should decide?

Because. I don't know. Call me crazy. But they did get us this far.

Or was that US?
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Old 09-24-2016, 03:41 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Everyone has an opinion and believe it or not, everyone thinks theirs is the best.
Especially the best coders in the world who are super experienced yet refuse to actually back up their claims that they know better through experience. Those guys...whew!
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Old 09-24-2016, 03:46 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
My apologies if you think I've done you wrong.

In reading the original post again, I'm not sure where you expected this to go.

IMHO, you were either looking for a reaction or you're a bit naive about the internet and how threads like this develop. Or devolve.

If your goal was to get the dev team to agree and turn their product into a "DAW by committee". I really have no response to that. It's really beyond the scope of human understanding on my part.

If you really do have experience creating and managing software with a team, than you understand what a nightmare it is. True. It's not rocket science but it's less of "everybody gets what they want" and more of "everyone is equally unhappy".

But that's still nothing close to what you're suggesting here.

I spent almost 3 months designing a test with Ethan Winer on how to test the difference between two audio convertors. Just two convertors. And we allowed everyone on GS to decide the best way to conduct it so that we could all agree on the results. That thread went on for probably 30+ pages and in the end, we never even conducted the test. Magnify that to FRs for REAPER and you'll see my point.

Everyone has an opinion and believe it or not, everyone thinks theirs is the best.

All the best.
The purpose of the thread was to guage if Reaper will focus on significant new audio features anytime soon. i had no other goal.
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Old 09-24-2016, 03:48 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
My apologies if you think I've done you wrong.

In reading the original post again, I'm not sure where you expected this to go.

IMHO, you were either looking for a reaction or you're a bit naive about the internet and how threads like this develop. Or devolve.

If your goal was to get the dev team to agree and turn their product into a "DAW by committee". I really have no response to that. It's really beyond the scope of human understanding on my part.

If you really do have experience creating and managing software with a team, than you understand what a nightmare it is. True. It's not rocket science but it's less of "everybody gets what they want" and more of "everyone is equally unhappy".

But that's still nothing close to what you're suggesting here.

I spent almost 3 months designing a test with Ethan Winer on how to test the difference between two audio convertors. Just two convertors. And we allowed everyone on GS to decide the best way to conduct it so that we could all agree on the results. That thread went on for probably 30+ pages and in the end, we never even conducted the test. Magnify that to FRs for REAPER and you'll see my point.

Everyone has an opinion and believe it or not, everyone thinks theirs is the best.

All the best.
I dont think my opinions are the best. In fact I have posted Airon for president many times. I find his perspective on DAW features way better than any feature ideas i have ever come up with.
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Old 09-24-2016, 03:49 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
Especially the best coders in the world who are super experienced yet refuse to actually back up their claims that they know better through experience. Those guys...whew!
Please go fuck yourself James. Thank you. I've had enough of your internet bully bullshit.
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Old 09-24-2016, 03:49 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
The purpose of the thread was to guage if Reaper will focus on significant new audio features anytime soon. i had no other goal.
I have no problem with that and I like new features as much as the next guy. The problem I have is when someone pretends to speak for others and makes poor arguments while doing so. That's all.

Peace?
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Old 09-24-2016, 03:54 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
According to who? (or is it whom?)

This reminds me of that time when Steven Colbert decided to take over the Late Show and everyone was afraid he wouldn't be funny anymore.

Forgetting that HE is the funny one. Not US. He's the one who created that character. Not US. We've just been watching him. A much easier task if you ask me.

So instead of us (the users) deciding what's best for the company that created the software that we love. Maybe THEY should decide?

Because. I don't know. Call me crazy. But they did get us this far.

Or was that US?
according to countless research studies - that was my academic field for years - plus years design mentoring startups in one of the most successful incubators in my country. But you are maybe misunderstanding what I mean by user studies - I am not talking about asking users what they want ie give me a feature list and we will put all those features in. That was covered in the Simpson's "the car built for Homer" I was responding more directly to drichard's idea of the uselessness of "marketing focus groups" - perhaps I misunderstood drichard's intention.

Krug's method(s) are simple and quick yet give good feedback on where to focus the interface design to reduce the effort users have to make to achieve what they want

Last edited by woggle; 09-24-2016 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 09-24-2016, 03:57 PM   #332
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I have no problem with that and I like new features as much as the next guy. The problem I have is when someone pretends to speak for others and makes poor arguments while doing so. That's all.

Peace?
Quit being such an asshole and you'll find peace.
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Old 09-24-2016, 03:57 PM   #333
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Quit being such an asshole and you'll find peace.
Well I know just how useful a person you are now. Thanks.
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Old 09-24-2016, 04:00 PM   #334
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Well I know just how useful a person you are now. Thanks.
Finally you see. Now maybe you can act civil.
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Old 09-24-2016, 04:14 PM   #335
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Finally you see. Now maybe you can act civil.
Or maybe you can stop acting like some sort of expert that you're cleary not.
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Old 09-24-2016, 04:20 PM   #336
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Or maybe you can stop acting like some sort of expert that you're cleary not.
Welcome to ignore since you are unable to act civally.
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Old 09-24-2016, 04:48 PM   #337
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With the subject line you chose, this thread was doomed from the beginning. You seem unable to see yourself how others see you, and how others will interpret what you write. The things you ask for are not crazy, and you make some good points, but they are lost in the delivery.

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I've always thought you to be a nice smart guy, but for some reason you decided to turn my thread into a clown car. I really wish you had not.
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Old 09-24-2016, 04:54 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
There are only benefits to having a small team if the - goal - benefits from having a small team. Take note that almost all of the most popular audio workstations are not 2 man operations, because doing that would not benefit their business goals.
Which ones are "big" teams?

Protools - currently zero
Cubase - 5 people
Logic - 4 people
SAC - one person

I'm talking real core developers here. Not people doing testing, support...
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Old 09-24-2016, 04:56 PM   #339
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With the subject line you chose, this thread was doomed from the beginning. You seem unable to see yourself how others see you, and how others will interpret what you write. The things you ask for are not crazy, and you make some good points, but they are lost in the delivery.
Thanks. Apparently it's not universal as I have receive several private messages warning me that some users here are troll like and cannot have a civil conversations. Oh well.
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Old 09-24-2016, 05:40 PM   #340
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I think the thread is going to end with me again having to ban people for violating the forum rules, so I'll put it to sleep now.

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The purpose of the thread was to guage if Reaper will focus on significant new audio features anytime soon. i had no other goal.
REAPER will certainly continue to focus on new and old audio, MIDI, notation, video and other features in the future, just like it has been in the past 11 years. Whether or not they are significant to an individual user depends on his individual expectations.

My personal expectation would be that people are making their decision based on the feature set they find when they start using REAPER, and not based on their future expectations, because it's completely impossible to meet everyone's idea of what the future should bring and when, and disappointing people is the last thing we want.
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