Old 09-09-2014, 10:09 AM   #201
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Everybody's got to "come out into the light", at some point.

Who cares "when" it happens.
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:33 AM   #202
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I still think it very strange that the same recording sounds so very different on different systems.

Unless I missed something, we're still waiting for confirmation that the monitors are in phase.

Until we know that, there's not much point in dealing with any other possible issues.
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:35 AM   #203
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Just trying to be helpful to the gentleman.
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:50 AM   #204
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Everybody's got to "come out into the light", at some point.

Well, you are far more hopeful on this particular matter than I am. While I have much respect for your patience in trying to help this "headcase", I just don't see this going towards any real solutions... "Every piece of the puzzle put in its place, just reveals another empty space."

Hats off to you, sir. (~:
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Old 09-09-2014, 11:28 AM   #205
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I can't help it. I like puzzles, at least sometimes.

At this point I'd have to agree - post the project in its entirety. It doesn't really help to try to diagnose phase issues if the compressors are pumping or the busses aren't routed correctly or there are still 8-something drum mics on at the same time or the monitors aren't set up correctly or it's still not being mixed in mono or the EQ isn't dialed in, etc etc.

I taught myself how to play guitar. For 7 years I had bad technique and didn't realize. Unlearning bad habits and reinforcing good ones took time, but it was worth it in the end - being able to properly play, not have wrists hurt, being able to play faster and not go out of tune so quickly... these things are worth it, even if they are things I wish I'd had earlier.

Better late than never.
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Old 09-09-2014, 01:08 PM   #206
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this is certainly taking time and lots of 'guess's'

why not post your multi-track for download and we could really figure out whats going on
tried stash keeps giving me an error...
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Old 09-09-2014, 01:10 PM   #207
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Almost from the start I wanted to hear what is recorded already, without ANY FX. None whatsoever.

I think this would give the "truest picture", of what's going on.

Yeah, just post the whole project.
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Old 09-09-2014, 01:12 PM   #208
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Yep... Entirely too much 'hand-holding'.

I still stand by my first comment, and every other since has only confirmed it. The OP stated that for 7 years he has been "mixing and mastering" (terms used loosely) his music. Yet here we are, with many of you good people spending days of time trying to solve the issues...which are all basic fundamentals of recording that someone doing it that long should be well past.

Those that can, do...
well i never encountered this problem till today or at least i had never heard it till everyone pointed it out.. so if youre politely trying to tell me to give up i politely ask you to just no longer reply.. again you weren't born with this knowledge and i may not be Mutt lang but I haven't had a problem like this before and my fans enjoy my recordings it may not be perfect it may not be by the rules but it makes me money so when in rome.... a littel about me I did garageband recordings of my band on an old 4 track bouncing things down to create more tracks.. hardly a digital compressor to be found a littel eq and some pannig and balance viola... then to cool edit and soundforge.. not the technical dynamoes of current year and not even a multitrack to be found... so yeah its been a bit of a road to get to reaper and all this digital info and vsts.. and yeah i may not have cut into perfect time and yeah my bass player is sloppy and to an engineer or producer or whatever its apparent... its as clear as crystal... but my fans aren't engineers or etc and im trying to get better.. and everyone on here has been so helpful to get me better... so thank you.. but im gonna keep trying.. to move up to expert mode with all this hand holding...

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Old 09-09-2014, 01:14 PM   #209
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I still think it very strange that the same recording sounds so very different on different systems.

Unless I missed something, we're still waiting for confirmation that the monitors are in phase.

Until we know that, there's not much point in dealing with any other possible issues.
yeah theyre in phase im moving onto removing the guitar compressors...
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Old 09-09-2014, 01:20 PM   #210
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I appreciate you all and so no one feels like they are wasting thir time and while stash continues to give me an error while trying to upload tracks and projects i will go thru all this first then if i need continued help i will pop back on here.. but you guys are busy and i have other things going on too.. So Thank you all... much respect and appreciation... it will be awhile as i did notice things that i never noticed or heard OR KNEW what it was so now that i have the miracale or all of your expertise ill be back after ive gone back to basics and started from the beginning... a fresh slate.. one piece at a time... so ADIOSNESS but Ill be back...

Headcase over and out!

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Old 09-09-2014, 02:02 PM   #211
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tried stash keeps giving me an error...
probably lager size than stash allows. may need to use some other FTP.
I see you have had enough for now but I'm sure that those that have been putting a lot of time into this would love to be able to confirm what they were theorizing about. (plus often nice to have a play with a mix)

Also If other people sent their mix sessions back to you and you like what they have done then you might learn something else
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:15 PM   #212
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probably lager size than stash allows. may need to use some other FTP.
I see you have had enough for now but I'm sure that those that have been putting a lot of time into this would love to be able to confirm what they were theorizing about. (plus often nice to have a play with a mix)

Also If other people sent their mix sessions back to you and you like what they have done then you might learn something else
Oh believe me it would be awesome to post even just my stems without any fx so people can mess with them see what they can come up with or what im doing.. but if i CANT even load a simple stereo wav thats 43 mb to stash without it saying error check your browser settings.. i wouldn't know what settings to check.. but trust me im down for everyones help as im sure some of you are frothing to have a bite of it and or see the fruits of your teachings... others seem to think i have this large studio with lots of stuff and years of training without asking how or what ive been using over the years..HI IM HEADCASE and im a garage punk who has used everything but reaper for 7 years and is a reaper virigin and oh yeah i over used a mastering compressor on my old mixes cuz louder is better (all this is sarcasm but true) and then when they know they talk down at me,.. I may not be trained i may not have years of experience with multitracking compression limiting mono mixes bussing aux pumping but ive made great music and im learing and wil continue despite them.. or TO SPITE them... cuz ambition and desire is far better than attitude and cynicism.. so thank you for your help.. as i said back to the drawing board.. ill be back in about a week with hopefully a better mix... (NOT in time) but a better mix

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Old 09-09-2014, 03:30 PM   #213
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have you used drop box or zshare or one of the many other FTP servers?

good to see you are enthusiastic about your work which is the most important thing. some of the nasty comments you received were probably due to some of your early comments but in general you have been given lots of great advice.

Stems are good but to really check phasing etc then separate tracks are much better.

I know you are against tightening timing but these days it is important https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yOEs_whudo
you don't have to quantize the life out of it but at least make it sound like they are not out of time.
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Old 09-09-2014, 04:01 PM   #214
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have you used drop box or zshare or one of the many other FTP servers?

good to see you are enthusiastic about your work which is the most important thing. some of the nasty comments you received were probably due to some of your early comments but in general you have been given lots of great advice.

Stems are good but to really check phasing etc then separate tracks are much better.

I know you are against tightening timing but these days it is important https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yOEs_whudo
you don't have to quantize the life out of it but at least make it sound like they are not out of time.
i have a drop box i can use that.. and i only say stems cuz i have multiple takes and I would rather smooth them into one take per track to give to you guys
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Old 09-09-2014, 04:10 PM   #215
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ya to some degree its hard to talk about a bunch of mixing tricks, mastering tips etc with the material that has a lot of flaws. When you mention killswitch engaged, im kind of guessing that is a sound you like.. and are shooting for. Not an exact copy, but thats what you are aiming at.

Machine like tightness is a huge part of their sound.. you can't neglect that tracking is part of this process and skimping out there will just decrease the potential of the mix (a lot). That kind of chops and production are pretty much what makes that sound.

anyway I dont know what you have or have used as far as reference material, but you might consider something like

killer home recording @ www.recordingreview.com

Or something like it. Everything brought up in this thread is covered. There is a plethora of info on the net.. but i think there is something to be said for having a well organized and paced package from one source to keep it from getting overwhelming.
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Old 09-09-2014, 04:52 PM   #216
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if youre politely trying to tell me to give up..
I didn't, and wouldn't...just simply an observation.

As I said before, go back to basics. Don't overdo everything, and let the sound take shape as it needs to. The problems you are experiencing are "user error", not the hardware/software or playback systems.

And timing is extremely important, no matter the style or sound you are going for. The human ear and body recognize when the rhythm is skewed (even if you can't dance, lol). It causes tension where you may not want it to be, and makes much listening unpleasant.

Again...just trying to help you think a different way than you have been.
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Old 09-09-2014, 06:51 PM   #217
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ya to some degree its hard to talk about a bunch of mixing tricks, mastering tips etc with the material that has a lot of flaws. When you mention killswitch engaged, im kind of guessing that is a sound you like.. and are shooting for. Not an exact copy, but thats what you are aiming at.

Machine like tightness is a huge part of their sound.. you can't neglect that tracking is part of this process and skimping out there will just decrease the potential of the mix (a lot). That kind of chops and production are pretty much what makes that sound.

anyway I dont know what you have or have used as far as reference material, but you might consider something like

killer home recording @ www.recordingreview.com

Or something like it. Everything brought up in this thread is covered. There is a plethora of info on the net.. but i think there is something to be said for having a well organized and paced package from one source to keep it from getting overwhelming.
thanks killswitch went out the window several comments ago now im just working to achieve a clean mix that doesnt phase doesnt wave.. its still doing it.. ive shut off everything except slight comp on the drums and bass and still its doing it.. and i cant figure it out for the life of me... but im gonna keep testing till i do...
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Old 09-09-2014, 07:27 PM   #218
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Turn off everything. NO FX.
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:17 PM   #219
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and then when they know they talk down at me,.. I may not be trained i may not have years of experience with multitracking compression limiting mono mixes bussing aux pumping but ive made great music and im learing and wil continue despite them.. or TO SPITE them... cuz ambition and desire is far better than attitude and cynicism..
Stop being petulant. If someone's telling you that your mix or your music has flaws, then grow the f*** up and admit that maybe, just maybe, they're right. Criticism, as long as it's from people who have knowledge and experience, is an opportunity to learn, not a chance to show how defiant and "punk" you are. This attitude has already caused a few people here to not want to help you, and it's starting to turn me off, too.


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ill be back in about a week with hopefully a better mix... (NOT in time) but a better mix
Smh. Being proud of sloppy musicianship doesn't make you an outsider, a rebel, a maverick, or the guy challenging the norms or bucking the industry... it makes you proud of being a sloppy musician.


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and yeah i may not have cut into perfect time and yeah my bass player is sloppy and to an engineer or producer or whatever its apparent... its as clear as crystal... but my fans aren't engineers or etc and im trying to get better..
You've said it a few times, sometimes to defend your work, sometimes to discount our suggestions, but at the very least, saying "oh, sloppiness is okay because the fans can't hear it" is an insult to your fan base. You owe them the best quality work you can produce, every single time, and to do any less is a disservice, whether you "think" they can hear the flaws or not. You really think they can't? Really?

Newsflash - we aren't hearing the sloppiness because we're "engineers" or "producers," it's because we're musicians. You do realize that many of us write our own music, have our own bands, play our own gigs, or have done this stuff professionally? I go to some shows were half the audience are musicians. Consider raising your bar - you might make a few more fans that way.
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Old 09-12-2014, 11:52 AM   #220
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Stop being petulant. If someone's telling you that your mix or your music has flaws, then grow the f*** up and admit that maybe, just maybe, they're right. Criticism, as long as it's from people who have knowledge and experience, is an opportunity to learn, not a chance to show how defiant and "punk" you are. This attitude has already caused a few people here to not want to help you, and it's starting to turn me off, too.




Smh. Being proud of sloppy musicianship doesn't make you an outsider, a rebel, a maverick, or the guy challenging the norms or bucking the industry... it makes you proud of being a sloppy musician.




You've said it a few times, sometimes to defend your work, sometimes to discount our suggestions, but at the very least, saying "oh, sloppiness is okay because the fans can't hear it" is an insult to your fan base. You owe them the best quality work you can produce, every single time, and to do any less is a disservice, whether you "think" they can hear the flaws or not. You really think they can't? Really?

Newsflash - we aren't hearing the sloppiness because we're "engineers" or "producers," it's because we're musicians. You do realize that many of us write our own music, have our own bands, play our own gigs, or have done this stuff professionally? I go to some shows were half the audience are musicians. Consider raising your bar - you might make a few more fans that way.
look there is a big difference between criticism and being down right F***ing rude about it... I accept that they are trying to tell me something and yes I learned something and I am applying what ive been taught but there is a way to talk to people that will get you a respectful and appreciative response and then there's the type of criticisim thats regardless of what someone tells you (right or wrong) is gonna get you a middle finger in your face.. its called tact... and if those people spoke to everyone the way they spoke ot me I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't the first to react that way.. and that's not petulent or "punk" thats just me giving back what im getting... but again thank you for all your help it was most eductional...
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Old 09-12-2014, 12:02 PM   #221
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This thread was not about my musician ship it was about me hearing something on my truck that i dont hear in my monitors.. but after several wonderful pieces of instruction im still hearing it in my truck but i had a fellow engineer take a liten by dropboxing direct wavs andhe doesn't so after evenhaving him come over and witnessing it we are in the conclusion that it is a faulty wire connection from ipod to stereo in the truck but we cant say for sure.. im not an electrician or a mechanic... but thanks to everyone for theyre input in the future i will quantize just so i dont hear the constant (off topic) comments about the sloppy musicianship. BUT AGAIN THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO WERE COURTEOUS AND HANDLED YOUR CRITICISM WITH TACT POISE AND GAVE DIRECTION.. YOU TRULY HAVE THE WHAT IT TAKES TO TEACH AS WELL AS PRODUCE... if you want to know what happened please inbox me... it reduces the negative comments and doesn't waste anyones time that doesn't want to be wasted.. thank you all... its been a learning experience.. believe me Ive learned a lot and will apply all of it.. including the timing and quantizing...
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Old 09-12-2014, 12:14 PM   #222
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Good for you!
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Old 09-12-2014, 02:54 PM   #223
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look there is a big difference between criticism and being down right F***ing rude about it... I accept that they are trying to tell me something and yes I learned something and I am applying what ive been taught but there is a way to talk to people that will get you a respectful and appreciative response and then there's the type of criticisim thats regardless of what someone tells you (right or wrong) is gonna get you a middle finger in your face.. its called tact... and if those people spoke to everyone the way they spoke ot me I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't the first to react that way.. and that's not petulent or "punk" thats just me giving back what im getting... but again thank you for all your help it was most eductional...
Take your own advice. Some of the replies in this thread have been relatively harsh, sure. For the most part, those people/posts have been the ones telling you exactly like it is without sugar coating anything. You have delivered big "fuck you's" to a number of people trying to help you here, and its not doing you any favors.

The original 3 files you posted, as others have already said, sound like shit. Face it, they do. I'm not gonna listen to them 6 times trying to find one or two things I can compliment you on to put a nice candy coating on that pill. If you can seriously sit and listen to those mixes, and then listen to KSE or any other band in that vein and think to yourself, "Yeah, my shit sounds that good, just maybe a little less pro," then its your ears that need adjusting, not your equipment. Plain and simple truth dude.

The first piece of advice you need to pull from all the posts in this thread is to stop being so fucking defensive. It took 3 or 4 pages, I think, of multiple people telling you over and over again about the same damn problem for you to finally 'start' to admit it. Now that you finally did, and remixed the track accordingly, it sounds a hell of a lot better. Your first mix mp3 was listenable, but not great. Your first 2 master mp3's were downright painful. The updated mix that you posted later on still isn't phenomenal, due in large part to the timing issues--I notice this greatly with the kick as opposed to the snare, personally--and also to the recorded guitar & bass tones. However, it is a very listenable track, and it shows a mixing approach that could work wonderfully for you if you improve the other factors.

No one likes to be told their shit stinks, we get that. If you're going to post your music to the public and ask for help and/or criticism, you're going to have to get over it and learn to take the bad with the good. If you truly believe that what someone is saying doesn't apply, then choose to either discuss it civilly to find the disconnect, or move on and ignore it. Stomping your feet like a child will get you nowhere. Instead of going on some sort of, 'fuck the industry, down with the man, man!' tangent about your sloppy timing, just admit that your chops have room for improvement but there's no way in hell you're going to go through the trouble of re-recording it right now. I totally get not chopping up the drum track and quantizing everything, and I agree that doing that can do a lot more harm than good for the dynamic and feel of the music. All my drums are programmed and I spend hours trying to counteract that to actually force a bit of inconsistency for that very reason. But there's a difference between not quantizing the little mistakes, and being downright sloppy. Take it on the chin, grow up, move on. Helping with a mix that involves timing issues from every angle is more difficult than you might think.

As far as the issue with your truck stereo sounding different than the monitors...thats a pretty easy problem to approach. Grab a song you like from some other band, like KSE. Drop that track into Reaper and play it through your monitors. Does that sound right? Cool. Now take that track and put it on your ipod and go listen to it in your truck--no rendering or any madness like that, just pull it from itunes onto your ipod. Does it still sound normal or does it do the same madness that your rendered track is doing? Still sound normal? Then its probably not your stereo, cool. Now put that track back into Reaper and render it the same way you're rendering your mix. Play that through your stereo. Does it sound normal? If it does, then its your mix and absolutely nothing to do with the rendering process or the car stereo or the ipod or the cable.

Now, as far as recording & mixing. I haven't done live drums before, so I don't have much to say about that. For your guitars though, you've already said you're using a V-Amp. I've never messed with one, but I'm sure you can get some decent tones out of it, probably similar to what I would get with my old PodXT. What is your process for recording them? Are you double-tracking? For left & right guitars are you setting up different tone patches, or are you just recording with the same patch throughout? You mentioned panning the guitars to 75 or 80...I would recommend against this. Hard-pan the guitars left & right, keep the bass dead center. If you are double-tracking, then you want 2 tracks hard left & 2 tracks hard right, each set of tracks should be the exact same guitar part so that it only sounds like two guitars. If you aren't using different tones for each track, I would highly recommend doing that...at the very least use something different for the two left guitars vs the two right guitars. Generally I like to take one patch for the left side, then adjust it a tiny bit (a touch less gain, maybe roll the mids up or down a hair, use a different overdrive...that sort of thing) for the second track, and then do the same process with a different amp model on the right. You could stand to add a LOT more high-end to the guitar tones. In one of your replies I gathered that you're not the guitar player, and that you were letting the players dictate what tone gets recorded. Fuck that. I say that primarily being a guitar player and being absolutely picky as shit about my tone. You can't let dudes like us dictate what tone gets recorded. We get to shape the character of it, you have to make the executive decision to turn down the lows, bump the mids and bump the highs when necessary (or whatever other adjustments are needed to get a useable recorded tone). Force it on them once, get good recorded tones, use them to get a good mix and have the guitar & bass work together and that ensemble work with the drums, then show them what THAT sounds like VS what you're working with right now. You will likely get less protests about it in the future when you tell them their tone won't work on record.

You mentioned at one point that you were sending both guitars through an aux track where you applied the cab IR's. This will totally whack the hell out of your sound. Imagine having two guitar players plug their heads into the same (mono) 4x12. That would sound absolutely jacked up, right? Same idea with the cab impulses, you want to put a separate instance of the impulse on each guitar--no aux track madness required (or recommended). You might also go as far as using entirely different impulses for each guitar...on the left load up a marshall 4x12, on the right, a mesa 4x12, etc etc.

For bass, whats your process? I tried for ages to get a good bass tone and never could...finally gave up and (after some adjustments to the bass itself) used ONLY the DI track....voila, great tone. I spent hours upon hours trying to tweak a patch on the pod to get the tone I wanted. When that failed I read a bunch of recommendations to use a DI track for the low end, then duplicate that track and send it through a distortion with a heavy-handed hi & lo pass to add in some growl. I could never get that to sound like anything but ass. So now I'm finally just using the DI track with compression and EQ and my bass tone is finally starting to sit where it should. Your bass tone reminds me of Iron Maiden...if thats what you're going for, cool. If you're looking for the more modern sound, try scooping out a lot of the mid range between 400-800 or so. Not with one big scoop, mind you; use a couple of notches with a little bit of a tighter Q and find some good frequencies to take out. Push your hi-pass down to around 60-70, use notches to control the low-end where required and also use them to tame any crazy frequencies in the upper mids...shouldn't take a whole hell of notches if the recorded tone is good (for me, I have about 10 all together on it...I suck at recording bass).

I will end this novel here. I was pulling the same (well, similar...I was never that hostile towards anyone that was willing to take the time out to leave me a comment) shit that you are a couple years ago when I started to get into the recording side of things. I would spend forever on a mix, post it up, and get told that it sucked. I would blame my recording situation, my equipment, my lack of monitors...when I got monitors I would blame the untreated room, etc etc etc. My mixes didn't start taking shape until I started listening to people and just giving ANYTHING they said to try a shot. Its fucking digital...save a copy of your mix and then proceed to thrash the hell out of it according to every single piece of advice you get offered. If someone says to delete all your compressors and redo your mastering chain from the ground up, don't fight them about it, just fucking try it. Its not like you're burning tape and you'll have to buy more just to try it. Stop being hostile, evasive and stubborn and I just about guarantee you there will be less replies that contain nothing but harsh criticism.

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Old 09-12-2014, 03:12 PM   #224
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Repetition Compulsion
I know you were not looking for Kudos however I have to say your script above hits it all right on the head.
Awesome script.

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Old 09-13-2014, 10:27 AM   #225
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look there is a big difference between criticism and being down right F***ing rude about it... I accept that they are trying to tell me something and yes I learned something and I am applying what ive been taught but there is a way to talk to people that will get you a respectful and appreciative response and then there's the type of criticisim thats regardless of what someone tells you (right or wrong) is gonna get you a middle finger in your face.. its called tact... and if those people spoke to everyone the way they spoke ot me I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't the first to react that way.. and that's not petulent or "punk" thats just me giving back what im getting... but again thank you for all your help it was most eductional...
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Originally Posted by headcase915 View Post
This thread was not about my musician ship it was about me hearing something on my truck that i dont hear in my monitors.. but after several wonderful pieces of instruction im still hearing it in my truck but i had a fellow engineer take a liten by dropboxing direct wavs andhe doesn't so after evenhaving him come over and witnessing it we are in the conclusion that it is a faulty wire connection from ipod to stereo in the truck but we cant say for sure.. im not an electrician or a mechanic... but thanks to everyone for theyre input in the future i will quantize just so i dont hear the constant (off topic) comments about the sloppy musicianship. BUT AGAIN THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO WERE COURTEOUS AND HANDLED YOUR CRITICISM WITH TACT POISE AND GAVE DIRECTION.. YOU TRULY HAVE THE WHAT IT TAKES TO TEACH AS WELL AS PRODUCE... if you want to know what happened please inbox me... it reduces the negative comments and doesn't waste anyones time that doesn't want to be wasted.. thank you all... its been a learning experience.. believe me Ive learned a lot and will apply all of it.. including the timing and quantizing...
So, we're back to this shit again...

A "fellow engineer"...ok. You are NOT an engineer! You are doing garage-band recording and not doing that well, in fact! Stop using terms like "mixing" and "mastering"...that is NOT what you are doing. And if this other "engineer" really was one, he would by now have told you all that we have shared here, and likely even more in that he would be physically there to hear it happening and be able to take the necessary measures to correct it.

You asked for help and advice in your original post. And doing so on a forum that is heavily populated by actual professional engineers and musicians, what did you think would happen? That you would get a pat on the back and a "hey, that's great...job well done"? NO! That would be doing you and ourselves a great disservice! It seems all you were willing to do was give excuses as to why it had to be some random and unknown hardware issue, because it couldn't possibly be that you don't know what you're doing! And now, after so many have taken time out of their own busy days to actually try to help you, we are back to "It's something in a piece of hardware/accessory, we just can't say exactly what it is". So, you're just going to give us the finger and duck out the back before we hurt your feelings again... Bullshit!

And I find it very hard to believe that not one of your "fans" have ever once told you something didn't sound right. I would think it's safe to say that most listeners know when something is off in a song, even if they can't say exactly what it is...they just "know". So that means these "fans" are all either deaf, or just too chicken-shit to tell you to your face that your music sounds so bad.

Final note - I usually try to stay out of drama on here, but your attitude on this thread really pisses me off. You wasted our time spent trying to help YOU, only to just give a kiss-off response and take it back to "I think I wasn't doing anything wrong, after-all". So, please just go back to your garage and keep making your shitty recordings for deaf people. They can only make the rest of us sound better at what WE ACTUALLY DO!
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Old 09-13-2014, 10:30 AM   #226
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SL----AP!!
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Old 09-13-2014, 11:01 AM   #227
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My advice: ditch/delete your account, take a years break, and come back with your clear head and new knowledge after you've done your DD in research and do the clean slate thing.
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Old 09-13-2014, 01:13 PM   #228
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that is when I would change my name on the internet ... this guy had only excuses and it was never his own fault. I wrote that on the first page of the thread. I know a lot of these kind of guys ... they turn around after you have explained nearly everything you know to thenm in detail, give you the finger and best of all: tell everybody else what a dumb unknowledgeable idiot you are. they know better. they never get any better or sound any better, but they are great, and if it sounds bullshit, its always anybody elses fault.

so if I have a good clue that someone is one of these a**h**** I turn away and let them stick in their hole. not my problem. :-((

so in the end its a cable in the truck ... well ... let him do his bullshit. he isnt able to learn. a dumb person. shit happens.
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Old 09-13-2014, 02:18 PM   #229
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Quote:
it is a faulty wire connection from ipod to stereo in the truck but we cant say for sure.. im not an electrician or a mechanic... but thanks to everyone for theyre input in the future i will quantize just so i dont hear the constant (off topic) comments about the sloppy musicianship. BUT AGAIN THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO WERE COURTEOUS AND HANDLED YOUR CRITICISM WITH TACT POISE AND GAVE DIRECTION.. YOU TRULY HAVE THE WHAT IT TAKES TO TEACH AS WELL AS PRODUCE...
A real "engineer" would be able to figure out the problem, anyone with any integrity wouldn't be blaming it on cables or audio codecs or downmixing, if you did it right the first (or at all) you wouldn't have to quantize it, and if you weren't always blaming it on someone else and talking s*** about the people trying to help you then you might have it in you to actually learn.

Repetition Compulsion, everything you've said hit it pretty much on the head.

Whiteaxxxe.... yeah, you were right. Sometimes when you're passionate you want to believe the best about people, even when all the evidence says otherwise.


I didn't see this originally...

Quote:
For your guitars though, you've already said you're using a V-Amp. I've never messed with one, but I'm sure you can get some decent tones out of it, probably similar to what I would get with my old PodXT.
I have a V-Amp Pro. It's quite a fun little unit, I used to gig with it. There was some weird thing that for live playing I had to tweak to keep it from pausing in between changing presets... maybe putting it into L2 mode, disabling the cab sims? I remember the Classic Clean, Black Twin, Recto Head, and maybe the British 50w settings being my favorites. Good times. It's a shame that he botched that, too, since it's so easy to audition different amp models and with only four knobs to twiddle (five if you count Presence, but its Presence control was always a little over the top to me, so I kept it low).
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Old 09-15-2014, 03:12 PM   #230
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wow thanks...appreciate the feedback... you're all right.. I have nothing to say..Ill get back to working on it... till i get it right.. thank you...
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Old 09-15-2014, 03:23 PM   #231
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Take your own advice. Some of the replies in this thread have been relatively harsh, sure. For the most part, those people/posts have been the ones telling you exactly like it is without sugar coating anything. You have delivered big "fuck you's" to a number of people trying to help you here, and its not doing you any favors.
you're right no one does... and well after several pages im learning to just shut my mouth... and move forward.. the guitar vamp is nice so nice i use the bass version for the bass... i would elaborate but gettig into detail just seems to open up to comments and im tired of fighting about my "SHITTY" recordings.. the KSE reference was an example of guitar driven recordings like 5 finger death punch.. im not trying to sound like nor will i get anywhere near actually sounding like KSE or 5 finger it was just an example of guitar driven recodings as opposed to vocal driven or drum driven recordings... but again that was lost in translation.. no biggy.. so ok my engineer frined didn't say anything tome about my timing cuz again he knows that i dont fit into perfect time or use a click track.. so he didn't bother starting a debate with me about it... keepng in mind all these arent excuses just an explaination.. which at this point seems futile as well.. as it will just open up more cans of worms.. so as I stated Imnot here to waste anyones time.. im going baCK TO THE DRAWING BOARD and yeah maybe i will just change my name and fade in obscurity.. im still learnin this daw and Im sorry that my skills are beneath some of you.. all i can do is keep trying im not gonna give up just cuz most of you think my work is shit.. at this point im determined to get better and prove you all wrong but then again whats the point it will go from sounds better but this.. and this.. so rather than nit pick.. ill just thank you all.. go back and bust my ass till its right.. if it takes a year great if it takes less time.. awesome.. its gonna get done... so thank you.. yours although a slap in the face still showed my some respect for trying.. so i appreciate it.. i will take what you said and put it to use...
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Old 09-15-2014, 03:35 PM   #232
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Now "that's", Rock 'N' Roll!!
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Old 09-15-2014, 03:42 PM   #233
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can anybody tell me where the facepalm-smilie is? that is what I love most on Gearslutz, the facepalm-smilie. that is offtopic? no, its not.

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Old 09-15-2014, 04:26 PM   #234
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good on ya Headcase

you have been given a hard time but sometimes that is what it takes to learn

keep workin on it, your music is good, and it will get better
please keep us posted on where you at with any new stuff
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Old 09-16-2014, 01:15 AM   #235
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Recordings like the ones you mentioned with huge guitars right up in your face absolutely depend on nice tight drums behind them. Thats why everyone is making a big deal about that. Its not a matter of not 'fitting into perfect timing,' its a matter of playing a cohesive piece of music with your band mates so that everything works together to create the sound. Until you do that, you're not gonna get that type of sound no matter what you do. Guitars are incredibly weak instruments when played on their own relative to how they sound with the full force of the mix behind them.

Nobody here wants to see you fail and nobody here is trying to convince you to quit. What everyone is trying to get across is that the attitude you're taking in regards to a lot of the advice here is going to lock you into sub-par mixes. It would be like a baseball player standing at the plate with his eyes closed and refusing to listen to his coach telling him to keep his eye on the ball, because he just uses his instinct instead. That dude might hit a pitch once in a while and he might even get pretty decent at playing with his eyes closed...but he'll never be as good as he could be if he just listened to his coach.

The best example of the timing thing in your mix is at 2:30. That breakdown could be pretty damn heavy, but your kick drum sounds more like popcorn than an actual part of the music. I know thats harsh, but thats what we're all trying to point out. If you write drum parts that you're capable of playing in time in lock-step with the guitars & bass, your music will be heavier & your mixes bigger than if you write parts that are too technical for you to play appropriately. Trust me when I say I have the same problem. I can't write & record the shit that I THINK I can play when I'm just jamming along, because once I sit down to try and solidify it and then burn tracks I realize that its sloppy as hell because my technique isn't up to par.

The tones you have for the different instruments seem like pretty solid bases to work with, although its hard to tell in the current recordings. For a guitar driven recording you're probably going to need to brighten those up a good bit and shave some high-end click off the kick and fatten up its bottom end.

If you work on your timing issues and simplify your mixes until you have a raw mix thats 70-90% "there" for what you want to hear and THEN start messing with compressors and detailed EQ's and everything else to get the rest of the way, you could probably get something solid.
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Old 09-16-2014, 05:29 AM   #236
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First off, I've only been studying audio for like 6 months. I don't know sh** about audio and can't offer any helpful advice about it.

But when I saw the ALL CAPS and the exclamation points and the page count in this thread, I knew exactly what I was walking into. I hope headcase is still reading this thread, because nothing in this thread is about audio. It's about attitude.

I spent most of my adult life studying graphics, animation and trying to please insufferable clients and bosses. All process, little-to-no reward. I never got affirmation or compliments or "f*** yeahs" about my craft, I was lucky to get paid for the jobs I took up. I got ripped off about a dozen times before I left the freelance scene behind because I couldn't afford to go to small claims and get the fees I was owed.

I've also spent much longer than that around musicians of all types and was raised alongside a few of them.

Look, we all love it when mommy puts our crayon drawings on the fridge. But at some point, you stop running your mouth and explaining your mistakes, roll up your sleeves and get dirty. This attitude is so prevalent in every single walk of life that you can smell it from half a mile off. Your work speaks for you. If you have to throw in a disclaimer, or worse yet, blow up your nonexistant credentials, that's keeping you from doing your work. And yeah, it's work. If it means that much to you, you'll treat it as such. When someone comes along and tells you how to improve and you read that as a downer and throw a tantrum, you might as well curl up like a contortionist and stick your head up your own ass. At least that would be physically impressive compared to running your mouth, which any kindergartener can do.

The very best thing you can do is attach your name to something you put out and then shut the f*** up. If you have to ask for help, then it's not there yet. Don't even try to hype it. If it's good, someone else will. It's like every fat girl on the bus talking about what a pretty, unique princess they are while contributing nothing to society. You can't decide how good/talented/pretty you are. That's for everyone else to judge, and judge they will.

I know those songs you've been pouring yourself into are highly personal and mean something to you, no matter how it ranks. So treat it like it means something to you. No matter what you pull off, you'll look back in five years and wonder what the hell you were thinking. It's not the product that's valuable, it's what you learned pulling it off. That's the sh** you take with you.

And if all you're cultivating is a legacy of burned bridges and sh**-talk, that's what your name gets attached to. That's your f***ing CV. Even the most punked-out motherf***ers understand what a reputation is and how it's important.

When someone tells you to "grow up," that's what they mean.
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Old 09-16-2014, 06:59 AM   #237
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The only bit I wouldn't entirely agree with there is the implication that you shouldn't post something up here (or other places like it) if you're at the stage where you're asking for help and whatnot. That's what a forum like this is for, in part at least. I know my shit wasn't half as good as it was before I started getting advice here and that's after Id been working on it for almost two years.

I also might just be reading that into it and it's not what you meant at all.
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Old 09-16-2014, 07:39 AM   #238
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I wasn't saying not to post unfinished work. Getting some guidance before you put a bow on it is critical. It's up to the individual to decide when something is "done" and that's an important step in moving on creatively. I could have been clearer about that.
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Old 09-16-2014, 09:23 AM   #239
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HC this is not directed specifically at you.. its just a philisophical ramble


One of the very cool things about the internet forums is you can really get some unbiased feedback and you can do it fairly discretely.

That said, unbiased can also be pretty stright to the point. I think JimFichs hit it on the head about not hyping your own stuff too much. I think that sort of sets the stage for the critiques to be a little stronger... and probably rightfully so.

One of the biggest barriers that will hold a band or artist back is denial, and I am speaking from experience. As an artist or a band the worst affliction that will stymie development is building up the repertiore of arguments as to why you aren't developing things.

Examples are
"I don't know scales, I just play with feel"
"I dont play to a metronome, the tempo drift sounds better live.. its organic"
"We don't need an image.. the music will speak for itself"
"We don't need marketing.. the music will speak for itself"
"all the feedback we get from our fans is great"
"we dont need great gear or tones.. the soundguy will fix it in the PA mix"
"the vocals pitch is fine.. makes it sound human when its raw"

of course this list can go on and on.. especially when some of the points could maybe be credible in some (rare) cases. I think you may tend to believe your own bs after a while.

The point is, your going to start to achieve your potential as an artist or as a band when you gain the ability to be truly self critical.. no crutches.. no excuses.

This is easier said than done in the context of a band.. Its been a long time since I was in a band, but I think if I did it today I would make sure everyone was reading the critiques.. I think it would be nearly impossible to be the single point of contact to go back to the band and start delivering crushing blows.. especially if my own stuff was right in there with them needing work.

For the most part, the advice is meant to be helpful because most of the participants have went through the toils..

You do have to get a thick skin though. Its almost the equivalent of those "hot ot not" type of website where your picture gets arbitrairly judged by anyone.. ouch!

The good thing, is you can change the way you sound

There is also possible language barriers where the text posts can come off a little unexpected.. or whatever. There really isn't any room to be overly sensitive in the world of posting your music up for a critical listen.

Headcase, this part is for you


If you think your friends/fans are impressed now.. I challenge you to buckle up on the next song you produce and subject it to the forum along the way open minded. Let it develop along the way with the advice and critiques. By the time you are getting a overall positive concenses from the forum...Let your friends hear that one and I bet they notice the difference bigtime
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Old 09-17-2014, 09:11 AM   #240
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Quote:
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Headcase, this part is for you
If you think your friends/fans are impressed now.. I challenge you to buckle up on the next song you produce and subject it to the forum along the way open minded. Let it develop along the way with the advice and critiques. By the time you are getting a overall positive concenses from the forum...Let your friends hear that one and I bet they notice the difference bigtime
Oh believe me.. i started this thread cuz i heard my guitars waving up and down like i was playing with the volume fader up and down the whole length of the songs. as in the pic i attached.. imagine that is the volume of the guitars.. that's all.. but thanks to posting this thread it forced me to better my game.. yeah this track may not be in time and ive been challenged to do so on my next track(which I will) and at this point im more excited about the new mix and how much better it sounds (TO ME) it may not be perfect it may still be a turd... i will post the new mix (later) and listen with thicker skin to everyones responses... i do agree that the kick needed more. low less high punch.. and again all this cuz I heard guitar volumes going up and down...

with that said... when i do post the mix.. the primary question that i propose to all of you.. is:
"Do you hear the guitars going up and down in volume?"
its a yes or no question.. if you dont then im closer to my goal and then i can move on to what else would you suggest to improve the mix (AS FAR AS TONES) timing is gonna be a issue.. i get that and it may be nails on a chalk board to your ears.. but please.. humor me and place that part aside... FOR NOW.. and see if there are any other eq compression or volume suggestions you would do to improve the mix.. ok? yeah? can we try that? pretend someone brought you this outta time recording and asked you to do your best with it.. timing aside... not askig you to polish a turd... im just asking for your suggestions and advice towards improving what is already.. to make it the best turd it can be.. so to speak...hahahah

again thanks for the help...
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