NI Kontakt sends Reaper into “not responding” state

[perkes]

My Native Instruments Kontakt 5 plugin send reaper into “not responding” state and I have to force quit it.
Here are the steps that I can perform that will re-create the problem:

Launch Reaper
Create a new project
Insert a virtual instrument on a new track
Choose Kontakt 5
(don’t even load any Kontakt libraries)
Close Kontakt
Try to do anything else results in a spinning cursor that never goes away. Further clicks result in Windows asking whether to wait for the application or to quit.

I have tried:

re-installing Kontakt with the NI Reg Tool,
rebooting (of course),
running the portable install,
loading older versions of Reaper,
checking the task manager for hanging Reaper processes and
turning off my virus protection (McAfee).

Any help with this will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

//Paul

Reaper 5.70 (64-bit)
Kontakt 5: 5.7.3
Windows 10 Pro (64-bit)
Audio Adapter: ESI U24XL (ASIO)
Motherboard: Gigabyte AORUS X399 Gaming 7 Rev 1.0
CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
Speed: 4.0 GHz
Processors: 1
Processor Cores: 16
Logical Processors: 32
L1 cache: 1.5 MB
L2 cache: 8.0 MB
L1 cache: 32.0 MB
CPU Flags: MMX, SSE, SSE-2, SSE-3, SSSE-3, SSE4A, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, AVX. AVX2, BMI2, ABM, FMA, ADX, DEP, AMD-V, SMEP, SMAP, EM64T, HTT, CPB, AES-NI,RDRAND, RDSEED, SHA
RAM: 64 GB (16GB X 4 Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3000 MHz CMK16GX4M1B3000C15)
Graphics: Gigabyte AORUS Radeon RX 570 4GB
Boot Drive: 2TB Samsung 960 PRO Series M.2 NVMe SSD (MZ-V6P2T0BW)

[mschnell]

This issue has been discussed before, and it's very obviously a Kontakt bug. Supposedly Reaper can't help.

With an older Kontajt version, I had it several times (and reproducible) when trying to delete a Kontakt Instrument group in Kontakt. In some cases pressing ESC could get me running again, but I was unable to do the deletion.

It got better with a more recent Kontakt version, but yesterday I had the Problem again, and ESC did not help, either.

-Michael

[RobertP]

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=177403

and, arm the track with kontakt on before doing anything with kontakt

[perkes]

Originally Posted by RobertP

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=177403

and, arm the track with Kontakt on before doing anything with kontakt

Thanks for the info. I tried arming for record my track with Kontakt 5 on it, but that made no difference. (unless I'm missing something...)

I also de-installed Kontakt 5 with the NI Reg Tool and installed Kontakt 5 5.5.1 that came with my version of Komplete 10 (pre-Native Access). That version does the same thing.

I have submitted a support request to Native Instruments.

Cheers!
//Paul

[ivansc]

Have you tried the very latest version of Kontakt? Currently 5.7.3

[perkes]

Originally Posted by ivansc

Have you tried the very latest version of Kontakt? Currently 5.7.3

Yes, I am running Kontakt 5.7.3

[ivansc]

O.K. Back to basics. Download a fresh reaper and install it as a portable install. There is a check box in the initial install window.
This will creaqte a new separate Reaper version in its own folder on your C: drive.
Open it and point the VST search window at JUST the location of your Kontakt install and see if the problem persists.
If it does, you have a problem with your Kontakt install.

[perkes]

Originally Posted by ivansc

O.K. Back to basics. Download a fresh reaper and install it as a portable install. There is a check box in the initial install window.
This will creaqte a new separate Reaper version in its own folder on your C: drive.
Open it and point the VST search window at JUST the location of your Kontakt install and see if the problem persists.
If it does, you have a problem with your Kontakt install.

I downloaded a fresh copy of Reaper 5.70 (64-bit).
Installed "Portable Install" version into C:\REAPER
Started Reaper, let it scan my plugins.
Replaced VST path with "C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\Native Instruments" (I have all my plug-ins organized into directories by vendor.)
Cleared VST cache and rescanned.
Inserted a virtual instrument on a new track and inserted Kontakt 5.
As soon as I closed the plug-in Reaper hanged for about 2 min.
Same as before. This is completely reproducible--happens every time I open and close a Kontakt 5 plug-in.

As I have said before: I have removed old copies of Kontakt with NI Reg Tool, deleted the Kontak folder in Program Files and installed a fresh copy of Kontakt 5.7.3 with Native Access. I have tried arming the track for record as others have suggested, but this makes no difference.

I'm flummoxed.

[ivansc]

[QUOTE]I'm flummoxed.[/QOUTE]



Me too. Looks like it really IS some sort of problem with Kontakt if everything else is running OK on your system.
Sorry I cant think of anything elsde to try.

[brandnewbadidea]

Im getting the same problem, every time and have reinstalled everything.
Ill also contact NI
Cheers

[Danlmc]

Sounds like a need to replace Kontakt instead of fighting it...
Does anyone know of a alternative that plays well with others?...

DMc

[mschnell]

(Given the very many high quality 3rd party libraries that based on Kontakt...)

Are you trying to be funny ?

-Michael

[Danlmc]

Originally Posted by mschnell

(Given the very many high quality 3rd party libraries that based on Kontakt...)

Are you trying to be funny ?

-Michael

No, not really... but I'm getting the same never, never, land 'not responding' problem with Kontakt... I too would prefer Kontakt, for the reasons that you listed, but if it crashes my system on a regular basis...??

I would be willing to guess that there are track or system settings that could be a possible fix... anyone have any ideas?...

[ivansc]

This seems to be yet another of those weird problems that are only affecting a minority of users.
So far I have no issues like this in Reaper or Studio One or indeed Sonar.
Frustrating.

[Dannii]

Perhaps try running Kontakt as a dedicated process (open FX browser and right click Kontakt for that option). You might want to also tick the option to embed bridged GUI. I'm not at my PC right now so can't remember the exact wording of those options.

I had a problem with Kontakt randomly crashing and that totally fixed my problems.

[Gelic]

††† Greetings! I get the same result as the posters above on this thread using Windows 10. Kontakt 611 x64 bit loads perfectly in Cubase Elements 9, fast and proper (Man Genesis Choir sounds great!). But when I click the add Kontakt x64 (64out) vst in Reaper, it goes into a "Reaper not responding state" and Reaper hangs with a little rotating blue circle. It never comes back so must be killed with task manager. I have an i7 Skylake and 32gb of fast ram and a SSD drive on which all this runs.

However, x86 32 bit Kontakt from the same 611 install runs just fine on the same Reaper 5977 build. It was only on a lark that I opened Cubase, because I've been finding Reaper EXTRAORDINARY in so many delightful ways. I simply LOVE Reaper!

So I'm wounded because I do not like to see another DAW do something fundamental better than Reaper. This is a regular install of Reaper 5.977. I did try other older portable versions, but same result. I cleaned Kontakt off my system rather well, registry and files and a few fresh installs.

I have multiple boots of Windows 7 and 10 which I back up with Acronis so I can revert to a fresh install state. I'm going to try this exact version of Kontakt on a fresh install of Windows 10 and 7 and see if the results differ.

The Windows 10 with the problem is the version that has major updates every 2 minutes from Microsoft so no one ever knows what code is installed or coming down the pike: Nice.

But the other Windows 10 boot partition I have is the Windows 10 LTSC 2019, which they try to hide and price out of reach because it does not receive updates for two years or more: you get code you know for more than a week so real app development can occur.

If anyone has ideas, love to hear them! I'll post back with my test results on a fresh Win10/7 install.

Love,
Gelic!

[EvilDragon]

Make sure that the option "Run FX when stopped" in Preferences->Audio->Playback is enabled.

[Gelic]

Thanks for the reply EvilDragon. I'll try that in a second!

To see if the problem followed on a fresh install, I switched to my test Windows 10 LTSC and used the same full install version of Reaper and the same version of Kontakt, 611. And Kontakt 64bit started up instantly in that LTSC version of Windows 10.

As to your solution on my main Windows 10, that option was already checked.

The combo of Reaper/Kontakt/Win10 that has the problem was an upgrade from Windows 7 which was a 5 years old install. A few versions of Reaper and Kontakt have come and gone on it as well. It's certainly not a pristine case implicating Reaper is at fault.

Why do you think the 32bit works and only the 64bit hangs? That has to be a clue of sorts?

This failing Win10 install is my second home and it would be great if I could get Reaper working with Kontakt on it. Thank you for your help!


Love,
Gelic!

[Gelic]

I've worked for 2 days on this: removing Kontakt artifacts so that 611 will work, not just in Cubase but also in Reaper. The error occurs when trying to add Kontakt x64 to a track. And if left to spin, finally gives this error:


Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library, Runtime Error!
Program C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64)\reaper.exe, This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact the applications support team (EvilDragon) for more information.

How can I check to be sure I'm running the correct C++ Runtime Reaper prefers?

Here's what else I did to ameliorate the problem:

1. Followed all recommendations here:
How can I totally remove Kontakt? | NI Community Forum
https://www.native-instruments.com/f...ontakt.176234/

2. I used Resplendence Registry Manager to find ALL instances of anything Kontakt or Native Instruments using a few regular expression searches including: (native.instrument.*?)|(kontakt.*?)

3. I aggressively killed anything remotely matched. I also removed all references to Kontakt or NI on my harddrive. STILL NO LUCK. Odd.

4. Ran the NI uninstall registry tool also! support.native-instruments.com Solving-problems-regarding-updating-uninstall-reinstall-NI-products

I did happen to find Cubase has set a line regarding Kontakt in the registry:

HKEY_USERS\guid\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\AppCompatFlags\Layers\\C:\Progra m Files\Steinberg\Cubase LE AI Elements 8\Cubase LE AI Elements 8.exe $ IgnoreFreeLibrary<Kontakt 5.dll>

Maybe they've seen this issue and somehow have addressed it?

I'm willing to help resolve this issue which is, as I see it, a competitor has this whipped but Reaper does not. I want Reaper to be second to none!

If anyone has ideas, I'm a 20-year IT veteran happy to help!

Love,
Gelic

[EvilDragon]

I got nothing more to suggest, sorry. Maybe you could try resetting W10 so that apps and data remain, just the core is reinstalled?

[Gelic]

Before resetting all of windows for a single vst, I wanted to collect more info as to where the problem might be, whether it lay in Reaper, Windows or perhaps the Kontakt app. My theory was, if other DAWS easily loaded the same vst, than perhaps Windows and Kontakt were fine and it was Reaper.

Daws that load Kontakt 611 x64 perfectly are:

Cubase loads Kontakt x64 fine.
Mixcraft loads Kontakt x64 super fast, works great!

Fruity Loops gave a similar error which, though not specific as Reaper was about the C++ Runtime library, was perhaps tripping over the same thing.

I know some developers bundle C++ library DLLs into the installation of their application but others rely on standard distributable shared libraries such as Visual C++ Redistributables.

Because of Reaper's small size, I'm guessing they do not include the C++ runtimes, whereas Cubase and Mixcraft perhaps do?

Is there a way to get the exact runtime library Reaper likes to use and somehow point to it as a test? Rebuilding Windows for every app that has a hiccup seems a heavy burden.

Love,
Gelic!

P.S. I ran two AIO uninstall/install C++ utilities to ensure all such libraries were extant and complete, but same error. The following articles are helpful in quickly grasping all things related to library dependencies and I've included links to the two best AIO installers which do quite a few more useful things.

Visual C++ AIO Installer / Uninstaller review - gHacks Tech News
https://www.ghacks.net/2018/01/02/vi...taller-review/

Download AIO Runtime Libraries 18.03.24
https://www.softpedia.com/get/Progra...nstaller.shtml

All in One Runtimes - Download - ComputerBase
https://www.computerbase.de/download...-one-runtimes/

Sereby.org - Be Up2Date
https://www.sereby.org/site/All%20in%20One%20Runtimes

[mschnell]

I found that in certain cases Kontakt blocks the GUI thread when the audio thread(s) it uses are stopped.

Reaper stops the audio thread of a track when the track is muted and the appropriate CPU saving setting in the preferences is activated (which is by default).

In my "Live" project, I needed to fall back to Kontakt 6.04 to make it work while with Kontakt 6.1.1 the project hangs.
So it seems to be ẃorse with the latest Kontakt version.

-Michael

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Reaper stops the audio thread of a track when the track is muted and the appropriate CPU saving setting in the preferences is activated (which is by default).

Yes this option should be disabled. Kontakt doesn't like the audio thread being cut off from it.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Yes this option should be disabled. Kontakt doesn't like the audio thread being cut off from it.

In my setup it's perfectly impossible to disable this option. I have a lot of tracks that are responsible for different patches (tracks). Only a single patch (per keyboard) is activated at the same time. Allowing many active tracks at the same time supposedly would need much mot processing power than available. (With the "Live Project" extension I intend to try to create some day, I'll do experiments with deactivating Midi input instead of muting the track. I wonder if that helps (enough) to save CPU...)

In other (e.g.) projects disabling the option would require to delete many currently unused tracks instead of just muting them. Seems like not a very viable option.

-Michael

[dimitris]

After updating Reaper to v6, I've run into a related(?) problem. In my setup, Kontakt is added without any problems but causes Reaper to become unresponsive when closing a FX chain window ONLY when that has Kontakt GUI on display. If I first click on another fx in the chain, e.g. a delay following Kontakt, then nothing strange happens.

There is also one more difference in my symptoms. Unresponsiveness lasts for 15-20 seconds, after that Reaper resumes.

And Kontakt version doesn't affect the symptoms, 5.6.8, 5.7.3, 6.0.3, 6.2.0 do the exact same thing. I have only tested 64 bit vst, haven't tried 32 bit versions yet.

But I've found a workaround, run Kontakt as a separate process. When bridged, it works fine.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by dimitris

5.6.8, 5.7.3, 6.0.3, 6.2.0 do the exact same thing..

With my setup v5.x worked, v6.0.4 worked, v6.1.1 hangs, and now finally v6.2.0 does work .

-Michael

[138BPM]

I'm getting the "This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way" C++ runtime error too now, running Kontakt.

I tested in VMware on the exact same Windows 10 x64, same Reaper, same Kontakt and the same C++ runtimes installed - and don't get the error.

I tried uninstalling every C++ runtime on my real system, then reinstalled Kontakt and let it put in the (2017) C++ runtime it uses, still get the error.

What I haven't tried is right-clicking Kontakt and running it as a dedicated process when choosing it in the FX in Reaper so I'll try that when I get a chance. EDIT: Nope, same error.

EDIT 2: Maybe this has got something to do with using an all-in-one installer for C++ runtimes, because I have seen at least one other person with this issue that said they used that and I also use it (just because there's a ton of those redistributable C++ installers and the all-in-one installs them all at once).

What I noticed is, Kontakt will install C++ 2017 and that isn't one that usually gets put in by the all-in-one installer, so it seems there might be a conflict.

The all-in-one installer puts x86 and x64 versions of all of these in:
2005, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2019.

Kontakt puts the x86 and x64 version of just this one in:
2017

But that 2017 one isn't put in by the all-in-one installer, I wonder why since it's updated to 2019 and supposedly includes everything.

I have completely uninstalled all C++ runtimes and then installed Kontakt, letting it install C++ 2017 only and I still get the same runtime error.

I can test in VMware and never get the error in VMware, with or without the C++ all-in-one in installer, the error simply never occurs in VMware. That's something that's making this impossible to work out.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by mschnell

With my setup v5.x worked, v6.0.4 worked, v6.1.1 hangs, and now finally v6.2.0 does work .

-Michael

I just installed 6.6.0 and the problem seems to be gone, after any older 6.x versions misbehaved, when starting Reaper (with that particular project / installation) without previous restarting Windows.
-Michael