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Old 03-28-2019, 02:27 PM   #1
testOneTwo
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Default audio interface on USB hub - any way to make it work?

Hi

Hardware used:
Surface Pro 3
Tascam U16x08 (Audiointerface)


When I plug my audiointerface into a USB 3.0 hub, I get dropouts in the form of high pitched click noises.

Is there any way to make the audiointerface work in the USB hub instead of the SP3's onboard USB port?


Thanks

P.S.: I am trying to tackle individual aspects of a more complex hardware problem in this thread. Full on cable salad can be found here:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=219044
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Old 03-28-2019, 11:00 PM   #2
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Did you try the hub on other ports? Also, the usb 3 cable is different than the old ones (same connections, different symbol). Maybe you are not using the correct cable.
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Old 03-28-2019, 11:31 PM   #3
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If I understand your other post correctly, you're saying if you plug the interface directly into the surface pro then connect the keyboard to the interface everything works except the mapping for the fader and such on the keyboard. If that's correct, with everything connected that way, can you go into Actions and manually map those keyboard functions?

There's also the possibility that there might be something wrong with that USB hub that causes those dropouts when both devces are connected, like it's getting overloaded or something. Is there any support resources available for that hub that you can contact, or any resource you can check with to see if the hub is designed to work the way you're trying to use it? Sounds like it should work since it appears Reaper is seeing everything correctly, just might be something glitchy in that hub.
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Old 03-29-2019, 01:10 AM   #4
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Hi and thanks for your suggestions so far.

The hub is connected to the only available USB port.
All of the cables used are the ones provided by the manufacturers with the respective devices.


I tested mapping the transport's play button to my keyboard's hardware play button while it is connected to the audio interface, but it does not work. When trying to "add" in the action menu, nothing happens when I press the play button. The keys work, I can play my virtual instruments, e.g., but the hardware controllers stopped existing for reaper
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Old 03-29-2019, 01:12 AM   #5
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Sorry, forgot to reply to one auggestion:

I have not yet tried to contact the hub's manufacturer. I wrote an e-mail to the keyboard manufacturer, though.
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Old 03-29-2019, 01:30 AM   #6
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If you go into Preferences > Audio > MIDI Devices, with the keyboard plugged into the interface, do you see the keyboard in the device list and under Mode does it say Enabled+Control?
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Old 03-29-2019, 01:50 AM   #7
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The device disappeared from the MIDI device list in the preferences altogether at first

I then enabled input+control for the audio interface's midi device which was listed.
Result: Keys worked, controllers did not and were not existing for reaper (no manual mapping possible)

Last night though, in my despair, I started pluggin cables in and out while Reaper was running which I normally would not do and that resulted in the keyboard's actual own midi driver intermittently showing up as present again

I am away from the computer right now, but I will check visibility of both the interface's midi and the keyboard's midi drivers in the midi device list later again.

But bottom line: Yes, I always enabled both input and control, but the hardware controllers turned invisible when connected via midi cable to the audio interface
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Old 03-29-2019, 02:01 AM   #8
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Sounds like that hub may be the way you have to go. Hopefully you can get some info on it that might help.
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Old 03-29-2019, 02:19 AM   #9
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When you have everything connected to the hub, are you just recording the keyboard, or do you have something connected to the interface as well?
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Old 03-29-2019, 02:25 AM   #10
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Hi,

Yeah, I should contact the hub's manufacturer, too.
Still, it is strange that the interface should somehow block the hardware controllers, only. I should contact them, too.

As of now, I have my monitoring speakers, headphones and headphone hub/amp connected to the Interface, keyboard via midi cable. That's it.
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Old 03-29-2019, 02:50 AM   #11
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Agreed that does seem strange.

The reason I asked about what all was connected was, not being familiar with the specs on a Surface Pro, if it was capable of handling all that. Thinking maybe the drop outs mght be from the hardware not being able to keep up with everything.

Just kinda thinking out loud, because like I said, I'm not that familiar with the hardware capabilities of that device.

Keep us posted on what you find, lot of knowledgable people here.

Good luck.
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Old 03-29-2019, 04:05 AM   #12
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I don't think it is to do with the SP3.
When I had the interface connected directly to it, I could mic a complete rock band and do three separate low latency monitor mixes for three headphone amps and it never dropped out once.

EDIT:
I just paid a visit to the Tech store I got the USB hub at and the guy there suggested trying to swap my hub for another one of the same make as he thinks mine could be faulty. Will try that and report back.

Last edited by testOneTwo; 03-29-2019 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 03-29-2019, 05:53 AM   #13
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Ok,

I replaced the USB hub with another one of the same model. I get the same clicking noises. It is highly improbable that I should get two defective devices in a row.
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Old 03-29-2019, 06:57 AM   #14
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Hi,
Is the hub a powered hub?
Is that a USB 3 port you are plugging into?
Usually you would need a powered hub for an audio interface.
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Old 03-29-2019, 07:19 AM   #15
testOneTwo
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Hi,

yes, the hub has got its own power plug.

While I still have a support request open with the interface manufacturer, I consider this part of the bigger problem "solved", as there is unfortunately a statement by Tascam to "never use a USB hub", which - as f"/§&d up as I personally find this - really both a pity as well as entirely my mistake for trying to connect my audio interface to a hub while there is that statement which explicitly excludes this setup.


I still think that is messed up, but what are you gonna do about it...?


I think I will now tackle the problem from a completely different side and will try to remap the hardware controllers...I will need some help, though, so for everyone who might be able to help, I will post a link to a different thread. Thanks all so far, people!


P.S.: when the manufacturer's reply can shed more light on this I will add the reply in this thread for the benefit of later readers.
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Old 03-29-2019, 10:11 AM   #16
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Does the Tascam specs say anything about passing control codes from midi devices connected to it?
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Old 03-29-2019, 10:41 AM   #17
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Yes, there is a page which I frankly don't get, I will paste the table in here later today!
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Old 03-29-2019, 11:00 AM   #18
toleolu
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Cool, hopefully someone here can find something in there that helps.

The problem with these USB hubs is all the data going in and out has to share that same serial connection. It's like putting a lot of cars on a one lane highway, you get too many cars on the road, traffic slows down.
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Old 03-30-2019, 12:50 AM   #19
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There's also the endpoint problem. Audio interfaces can't be further away. Hubs with the correct topology are as scarce as hen's teeth.

Tascam's stand on this is fairly correct, as it won't work in 90% of the cases.
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Old 03-30-2019, 06:02 AM   #20
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The support for the Nektar Impact mastetkeyboard shared some info on why the keyboard is not recognized when connecting to reaper via midi cable

Quote:
The LX88+ has a few operating modes called 'USB Port Setup' modes. In the default USB Port Setup mode, most of the controls in 'Mixer' 'Inst' and user presets will transmit MIDI messages on the Primary port and to the 5-pin MIDI output. The Preset buttons, the Page button, the Clips/Scenes buttons and the Shift/Mute button will not transmit MIDI CCs in this mode.
When the LX88+ is configured as a control surface with it's USB MIDI ports selected, Reaper will send a message to the LX88+ (this can be done manually from the Setup menu) to change the USB Port Setup Mode (which results in the 'Inst' and 'Mixer' presets transmitting on the secondary port only) the LX88+ responds by sending a sysex message back to Reaper. If Reaper does not see the port names it expects or if it does not receive the sysex response (which does not get transmitted via the 5-pin MIDI out), the control surface functions will not work as intended.
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Old 04-04-2019, 09:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrano View Post
There's also the endpoint problem. Audio interfaces can't be further away. Hubs with the correct topology are as scarce as hen's teeth.

Tascam's stand on this is fairly correct, as it won't work in 90% of the cases.
I'd be curious to learn more about the endpoint problem, and what correct hub topology would look like. Can you recommend a hub that gets it right?

This is something I get asked about from time to time, and thus far I haven't been able to give specific answers beyond "it probably won't work".
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Old 04-05-2019, 12:45 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumphil View Post
I'd be curious to learn more about the endpoint problem, and what correct hub topology would look like. Can you recommend a hub that gets it right?
Sorry, I can't.

I spent a while testing hubs some years back. And found 1 hub that was right for the job. A 19" rack mounted thing with 12 ports, IIRC. Very expensive. 500$?

Recently, some people went looking for a USB-C dock with USB2 ports that were right for audio. By the time they found one, the manufacturer changed the design and dropped the Firewire port on it. Reason: some other manufacturer gobbled up all the good FW chips...

Quote:
This is something I get asked about from time to time, and thus far I haven't been able to give specific answers beyond "it probably won't work".
Same here. Things just go to fast and you can't expect any product to be available longer than 6 months.
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Old 04-05-2019, 06:11 AM   #23
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Have you tried a USB 2.0 hub? I currently have 3 USB MIDI devices and a UR242 interface going into an unpowered USB 2.0 hub, though I have not tried the MIDI input on the interface.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Onn-High-...Black/46631808

I was having a weird problem, maybe similar to yours, when I first tried to use the newest USB MIDI device. When I had it plugged in and I launched Reaper, the other 2 devices would not work. They still showed up as "enabled" in the device list (not "not present"), but were not being picked up for MIDI learn or anything else. When I unplugged the newest and restarted Reaper, the first 2 worked normally again. It was like that device was blocking the other 2. I was really at my wits' end as to why they weren't working. (It was regardless of using the hub.)

I got them all working by doing this: Started with them all plugged in, with only the new one working. At the device list, I unplugged one of the non-working devices and waited until it showed a "!!!" next to the device, then plugged it back in and pressed "reset all MIDI devices" button. Then, that device worked. I repeated that with the other, and they have all worked since.
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