Old 03-30-2006, 12:44 AM   #1
Justin
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Default .935 up

...big things being smp rendering, stems rendering/freeze functionality, and then there are small things too.

-J

p.s. these updates may have broken things, but hoping not
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:11 AM   #2
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Stem rendering...is this mentioned in a thread that I missed? I don't grasp the concept...
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:14 AM   #3
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It allows you to render selected tracks to disk at the same time (or in lieu of) the main mix.. you can use it to "freeze" fx on tracks, or to render each track in a mix (a "stem" as they are called) so that a mastering engineer later on (or whoever) can adjust the mix..

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Old 03-30-2006, 01:55 AM   #4
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Cool feature, I notice that if you just select folder tracks and render those it renders the content, so you can just select your folder tracks, hit render stems, and have mixable subsections of your project all in one step.

Two things I noticed:

1) I'm still working on that project with the 0.65 playrate. If I render a stem, the rendered track doesn't match up with the rest of the project. If I change the playrate of that track to the reciprocal of the project playrate (1/0.65 = 1.53846...) the beats line up, but the rendered track sounds different (lower). Not sure if this happens for full renders as well as stems, but I'm assuming so.

2) Rendering a stem with a small portion of the project's tracks takes the same amount of time as a full render. I'm getting about 0.5x realtime on both of them.
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Old 03-30-2006, 03:55 AM   #5
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Rendering stem and master track leads to skiped samples at start and more samples at the end. It looks like looped events are shifted front in time, sounds like bad selection for export. Exported tracks are all synched with each other, but they are unusable in project. I have Rme card and maybe that is the problem. Latency is set to 4ms for output, and leak is about 900 samples long.
I hope others will not have this issue, maybe it is connected to rme beta drivers.
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Old 03-30-2006, 05:18 AM   #6
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I'm getting deeply confused here, but it doesn't take much...

You can now...

Render a track
Consolidate a track
Apply FX to items as new take.

Rendering a track as a stem includes all FX etc, I think.

Consolidating a track just creates a single file from all the items but with no FX etc, I think.

Apply FX to items as new take includes all FX, I think.

Rendering a track seems to take much longer than consolidating it and then applying FX to items as new take, but (although I have not really tested it) I think the result should be the same using either method??

I'd be glad of an idiot's guide to rendering, consolidating, and applying FX to items as new take, ideally with examples of typical uses. That's if anyone's got the time and inclination!
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Old 03-30-2006, 05:35 AM   #7
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Ah... I see where the problem lies.

If I create a new project and put a single three minute CD file on a single track and render it as a stem with a reverb effect, it takes about 34 seconds.

If I put the same file into a project which has 12 tracks each with a CD song on a track, and render it as a stem (just the single track containing the same test file) it takes about 5 minutes 14 seconds!

Either I'm doing something wrong, or there's a bug here. I was pretty careful about settings (eg master mix is not ticked, bit depth is the same, etc etc).

While doing this test I did a quick check to ensure that procedures which should produce identical files (procedures being consolidate, apply FX as new take, and render) do produce identical files, by inverting the output of each method against the other. To which Justin would reply "of course they do!" but it's good to know that he's not kidding.

[EDIT:- Hmm, I think when you do a stems mix, it does the master mix whether you asked for it or not. That's the bug.]

[2nd EDIT:- Yup, testing confirms that is what is happening].

Last edited by Art Evans; 03-30-2006 at 05:44 AM.
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Old 03-30-2006, 05:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
I'd be glad of an idiot's guide to rendering, consolidating, and applying FX to items as new take, ideally with examples of typical uses. That's if anyone's got the time and inclination!
A friend of mine, working in the recording business, once invited me to play around a bit with his Pyramix Virtual Audio Studio. Professional stuff, I didn't understand a thing of it and sat there like a complete moron (almost like the main character of this site: http://www.presidentmoron.com/ ). Is REAPER heading in this direction? I support Art's view: it's getting difficult to get grip on REAPER's expanding functionalities when these are constantly released without any 'how to's'.

- no need to say how in the meantime I admire your work, Justin

Last edited by petramar; 03-30-2006 at 05:41 AM.
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Old 03-30-2006, 05:42 AM   #9
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Well... I think it's a matter of simply testing and noting results, which is what I've been doing.

I'll criticise myself - I sometimes get slightly annoyed when reading questions on internet forums where the person asking the question could have answered it themselves by a little experimentation far more quickly that by typing the question on the forum and waiting for an answer - which is perhaps what I've been guilty of above!

Each of these tools is for a purpose - eg the stems mix thing can be achieved by other methods but having the stems mix option does the whole thing in one pass where several tracks are involved. It's simply a batch process. Once the bug I've identified about has been fixed it should sort out my confusion, if not anyone else's.
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Old 03-30-2006, 06:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
Well... I think it's a matter of simply testing and noting results, which is what I've been doing.
True, but don't forget that not everyone is as experienced as you and others here when it comes to recording and editing music. I suppose REAPER is designed to reach users at various levels; newbies reading this forum could already easily get the Pyramix feeling I just described. We have a Routing Guide on the forum, but a good Quick Start Guide to begin with might be rather important for many people who are directed to this place after reading REAPER-info elsewhere on the Internet. I notice that in this forum all kinds of basic (beginners') questions are missing, the ones that crowd other software forums. I see that as an indication of people not daring to enter a place that seems to dedicated only to sophisticated tactics and techniques.
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Old 03-30-2006, 08:41 AM   #11
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WooHoo!

Great job, Justin! Stems work well, here. I've been waiting for this one for a while.

Thanks, as usual!
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:03 AM   #12
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Regarding the learning curve, I see what you're saying but I don't think it would justify leaving any features out. A beginner/advanced mode would be cool, where beginner hid some of the checkbox and context-menu options. If you ignore some of the bells and whistles I think the core functionality is still pretty intuitive.

As v1.0 gets closer I think the wiki will get fleshed out a little, and I think we don't have many beginner questions because this forum is mostly made up of at least semi-experienced enthusiasts who are excited about semi-participating in the development process. Once v1.0 arrives and we all go singing it's praises on messageboards near and far, THEN will come the flood of newbie questions. Multi-track audio is always going to be as simple or complex as you make it...

On another note, can someone else confirm that the marquee selection (alt-drag a box around audio regions) isn't working?
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:38 AM   #13
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learning curve?

The best part of reaper may well be its automatic learning curve!

Jump in and do your stuff

If there is REALLY advanced stuff that you dont understand, its not something you needed anyhow, so you can ignore it till later on you need it. No learning curve

Anyway, it will get easier as time goes on, and MalcolmJ is working hard on a manual at any rate.

Regarding stems, this JUMPS reaper a few more steps into the undeniably professional realm. Please dont knock it, if you dont understand it, just ignore it.

Surely justin will get the errors worked out.
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane
Cool feature, I notice that if you just select folder tracks and render those it renders the content, so you can just select your folder tracks, hit render stems, and have mixable subsections of your project all in one step.

Two things I noticed:

1) I'm still working on that project with the 0.65 playrate. If I render a stem, the rendered track doesn't match up with the rest of the project. If I change the playrate of that track to the reciprocal of the project playrate (1/0.65 = 1.53846...) the beats line up, but the rendered track sounds different (lower). Not sure if this happens for full renders as well as stems, but I'm assuming so.

2) Rendering a stem with a small portion of the project's tracks takes the same amount of time as a full render. I'm getting about 0.5x realtime on both of them.
#1, turn off "preserve pitch" on the new item, perhaps...

#2, I will change..


-Justin
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Old 03-30-2006, 12:13 PM   #15
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About 0.935 - bugs,comments and stuff


- Interesting,now the minimum "usable" screen size reached 619x285.Much better than in 0.934.Great for even 640x480 screens and even for the TV out.
- SMP rendering,finally,BUT I noticed bad crackling on the rendered WAV(s) some 10 seconds after the beginning and possibly some near the end
- Justin,can you add an option in the render dialog "Render (Stem) All Tracks",besides the "Render Selected Tracks" option ? Then,it will be just like using "Render all tracks separately" in FLStudio.
- Can you add an option to not remember (disable) and clear the "recent projects" menu?
- Display draw bugs in REAPER:
I still get these annoying draw/"corruption" bugs in REAPER. It doesn't happen with any other app so far,only with REAPER
Tried many apps such as FLStudio,Sound Forge,Mozilla Firefox,PhotoFiltre,Ableton Live,and while working with these apps,none of them experience these kinds of problems.
(using an ATi graphics card with Catalyst drivers,not an nVidia one.Resolution,colordepth and refresh doesn't matter - it happens at any setting).I used 800x600 resolution this time to prove it's not the case with a certain resolution setting,I use 2048x1536 normally [man,800x600 is sooo huge,my eyes hurt ! ]

So,here's what I experience:
1. Start up REAPER. Everything's fine.
2. Minimize it (optionally open whatever other window or app and maximize,then minimize it)
3. Bring back the REAPER window.The track color "overlays" are screwed up.
4. The only way to get it back to normal is to restore and maximize the REAPER window after the "corruption".
5. Same thing happens when I resize the left-side track mixers in length from shortest to longest.
6. Corruption happens in this case as well:
Load REAPER with the Browser window docked in the lower pane.Now open the keyboard shortcuts help window.Drag this window and place it somewhere over the docked browser window.Now close the keyboard shortcuts window.The area the kb shortcuts window was covering is now messed up.
7. The bug in 6. is easier to reproduce this way:
Load REAPER with the Browser docked in the lower part.Open the Keyboard shortcuts help window and place it over the Explorer.Now minimize REAPER and restore it.Close the kb shortcuts window.Looks bad!

I'll post some screenshots later.
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Last edited by synth; 03-30-2006 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 03-30-2006, 12:21 PM   #16
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Im getting these draw errors in the MCP often as well
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Old 03-30-2006, 12:52 PM   #17
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are these drawing errors limited to when the mcp is docked, or always?
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:01 PM   #18
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Plain 3D Object color instead of normal view due to covering Reaper with another app :

http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1143748561/3DBlock.png

Garbling due to resizing :

http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1143...e%20Garble.png

Text vanishing from some context menus :

http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1143...TextVanish.png

Scroll bars appearing when layering the same synth in the FX chain :

http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1143.../BadScroll.png
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:04 PM   #19
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Here's some screenshots.A picture is worth a 1000 words

BUG #1:

http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1143...UG1_Before.PNG
http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1143...BUG1_After.PNG

BUG #2:

http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1143...UG2_Before.PNG
http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1143...BUG2_After.PNG


Note: eidenk's pics are from WinME,mine are from XPSP2
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:55 PM   #20
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mine's never docked, but it looks like the pics posted
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Old 03-30-2006, 02:25 PM   #21
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This 0.935 build would appear to me be one of the least stable of all, and by quite far. Just crash after crash. Very simple projects that were never crashing on me previously. Even disabled all the virtul midi cables in the preferences to make sure it was not because of that.

BSODs Windows Protection Error. System Halted. and the like.

Never had those errors before.

with the previous build I have been able to add VSTis untils I reached 33 of them (synth1S) and loop them seamlessly.

I think there is no hope I can manage to get there with this build as it even crashed with just one instance of synth1 playing a small loop with me doing nothing but look at the screen.

Has someone else also more problems than usual with this build or am I the only one ?
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Old 03-30-2006, 05:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
mine's never docked, but it looks like the pics posted
like this one you mean? http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1143...BUG1_After.PNG

-J
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Old 03-30-2006, 05:54 PM   #23
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Is anyone getting this http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1143...e%20Garble.png
on XP/2k?
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Old 03-30-2006, 06:41 PM   #24
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I get screen garbage if I have the mixer docked, then drag the bottom right hand corner of the program window around roughly. Seems to be related to the buttons for grid, ripple editing and the like. I'm on XP Pro SP2
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Old 03-30-2006, 06:47 PM   #25
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Media Explorer location is not remembered when I start the program BTW - I suspect that's been mentioned before. I want it on monitor 2 but it comes up on monitor 1 after exit/rerun.
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Old 03-30-2006, 06:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Haven't experienced that one yet,but I'll check again.
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Old 03-30-2006, 07:29 PM   #27
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I haven't noticed the screen errors or the VSTi errors. They seem OK here.

The apply FX to items as a new take is absolutely awesome (I seem to remember Pipeline suggesting that to another developer to no avail). I love that it works with MIDI tracks also. Excellent way to "freeze" tracks.

Everything in Reaper so far is very well thought out in terms of audio mixing needs and integration and consolidation for the future. I'm simply loving this program right now.

One display related thing I have an issue with (and maybe it's my setup) is I use a 2 screen setup with the arrangement window on the left and the mixer on the right. In this case the main Reaper window is in "sized" mode. Most programs when in this mode have the popup dialogs come up in the middle of the main sized window. Mine are always popping up in between the two displays and I always have to move it so I can read it.

Keep 'em comin!
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Old 03-30-2006, 07:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
No (I'm on XP Home SP2). And I tried everything I could to get the other screen bugs described by eidenk and synth, but no again.

- though I didn't try "to add VSTis until I reached 33 of them (synth1S) and loop them seamlessly", clearly considered by eidenk as an absolutely normal thing to do .
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:32 PM   #29
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Here the screen drawing problem is clearly related to the docked mixer going over the buttons I referred to (ripple button etc) - that always scrambles those buttons and the part of the mixer that covered them.
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Old 03-31-2006, 12:02 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
I have experienced this on x64.
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Old 03-31-2006, 07:41 AM   #31
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I'm getting the same redraw errors too.

Now with .936 I can resize to fit to 800 X 600 but the default install is larger than that and must change resolutions to size RESTORE (the default) down then change back.

I'm still getting redraw errors however with .936 and no vertical zoom slider on both 98SE and XP-SP2.

http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1143...e%20slider.png

http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1143...w%20errors.png

MJ
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