Old 06-09-2020, 04:25 PM   #1
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default Group Buy Custom FX Controller

Wondering if people would be interested in having a custom controller for reaper made.

It basically would be a controller to just control plugins with hardware encoders and some buttons.

I've been integrating my QCon Pro G2 controller with reaper with the CSI project, but I feel that mapping the effects to that surface is not super smooth and buying something like the Console 1 although it seems to work great, is limited to the effects they provide and also, there are no displays on it to tell you what you are changing.

I'm currently looking for people who could do the electronics to create it and I would design and do the physical enclosure but want to feel out how many people would want this and how much they would be willing to pay?

Here's the idea I had so far.


All the encoders would be push buttons also btw.

In essence this controller would focus on the track FXs that is selected. (I'm also thinking about making focus on item FXs as well)

Encoder 16 could change layers, or FX applied to layers, or presets from selected FX.

Encoders 1-15 would have parameters mapped from selected FX. And the Up/Down/Left/Right keys would be able to bank across FX parameters.

Bypass - bypasses the FX selected
Wet/Dry - engages Encoder 16 to be the wet/dry dial
Layer - Makes encoders 1-15 have an alternative function

I'm also thinking of adding another 3 buttons.
to add extra custom functions.

How much would people pay for something like this?
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 05:45 PM   #2
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by siniarch View Post
In essence this controller would focus on the track FXs that is selected. (I'm also thinking about making focus on item FXs as well)

Encoder 16 could change layers, or FX applied to layers, or presets from selected FX.

Encoders 1-15 would have parameters mapped from selected FX. And the Up/Down/Left/Right keys would be able to bank across FX parameters.

Bypass - bypasses the FX selected
Wet/Dry - engages Encoder 16 to be the wet/dry dial
Layer - Makes encoders 1-15 have an alternative function

I'm also thinking of adding another 3 buttons.
to add extra custom functions.
To me everything works up until the quoted part above.

Why is there a hard statement about what Encoder 16 does ?

That should be left to software.

Why is there a hard coded notion of what ANYTHING does.

To me the surface should be just a dumb bunch of assets, to be custom assigned by each user for their custom setup.

I think the project will not go well if there is a hard notion of what things do -- everyone will not agree -- and no hardware will get built.

Concentrate on quality encoders, colour, and I would disagree with @MixMonkey here, having used both LCD's and oleds, oleds are far superior for this task

It might make sense to have a 4 way arrow cluster, but its definition should be in software.

I think it's a great idea for sure though !!
__________________
Beta software https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38349/CSI%20beta.zip Donate GeoffWaddington.ca
Installation / documentation / source https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...ntegrator/wiki
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 07:07 PM   #3
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
To me everything works up until the quoted part above.

Why is there a hard statement about what Encoder 16 does ?

That should be left to software.

Why is there a hard coded notion of what ANYTHING does.

To me the surface should be just a dumb bunch of assets, to be custom assigned by each user for their custom setup.

I think the project will not go well if there is a hard notion of what things do -- everyone will not agree -- and no hardware will get built.

Concentrate on quality encoders, colour, and I would disagree with @MixMonkey here, having used both LCD's and oleds, oleds are far superior for this task

It might make sense to have a 4 way arrow cluster, but its definition should be in software.

I think it's a great idea for sure though !!
Thanks for all your input Geoff. And please don't worry about criticism. I take it well. No ego here.

I took another stab at it with your suggestions. I agree about OLED but I don't know if the the lit encoders would make sense. Do they take up more room? How much more expensive are they? All things I don't know. How difficult to implement the light aspect of them? If it's the same size and cheap enough, why not.



Kept the OLED displays all the same and just 4. Not sure if there is a limitation on size of these things?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Controller_002.pdf (97.0 KB, 41 views)

Last edited by siniarch; 06-09-2020 at 07:25 PM.
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 02:52 AM   #4
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by siniarch View Post
Thanks for all your input Geoff. And please don't worry about criticism. I take it well. No ego here.

I took another stab at it with your suggestions. I agree about OLED but I don't know if the the lit encoders would make sense. Do they take up more room? How much more expensive are they? All things I don't know. How difficult to implement the light aspect of them? If it's the same size and cheap enough, why not.



Kept the OLED displays all the same and just 4. Not sure if there is a limitation on size of these things?
Yummm Yummm more displays -- now you're talkin'

They often just use banks of oled displays, dealing with the "breaks" wherever they happened to fall.

I might rearrange either the top or bottom set of four to the up/down/left/right placement.

Finally, make sure you place any connectors to allow for easy upside down usage -- be sure to put the extra led on the encoder ring too, some folks like the scribble strips above, some folks like the strips below, some folks like me would probably like to have 2 units one regular and one upside down
__________________
Beta software https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38349/CSI%20beta.zip Donate GeoffWaddington.ca
Installation / documentation / source https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...ntegrator/wiki

Last edited by Geoff Waddington; 06-10-2020 at 03:01 AM.
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 06:06 AM   #5
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yummm Yummm more displays -- now you're talkin'

They often just use banks of oled displays, dealing with the "breaks" wherever they happened to fall.

I might rearrange either the top or bottom set of four to the up/down/left/right placement.

Finally, make sure you place any connectors to allow for easy upside down usage -- be sure to put the extra led on the encoder ring too, some folks like the scribble strips above, some folks like the strips below, some folks like me would probably like to have 2 units one regular and one upside down
Ok, so I searched for some OLEDs and they are not as flexible as I would have liked. Based on what I found I came up with 2 designs.

Design #3 - The displays below the encoders are RGB OLED and the display on top are white OLED only. This design is taller but less wide.



Design #4 - All the displays are White OLED. This one is thinner and longer.



Let me know what you think.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Controller_003nodots.pdf (88.1 KB, 37 views)
File Type: pdf Controller_004nodots.pdf (85.2 KB, 32 views)
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 06:11 AM   #6
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,446
Default

What's the cost difference?

I'd personally lean heavily towards design 4 just due to the size. I'd even give up the top row of OLED's [ducks out of the way of Geoff's wrath] if that made it more compact and also cut costs.
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 06:24 AM   #7
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
What's the cost difference?

I'd personally lean heavily towards design 4 just due to the size. I'd even give up the top row of OLED's [ducks out of the way of Geoff's wrath] if that made it more compact and also cut costs.
Actually we are almost in agreement here , except I'd lose the bottom row
__________________
Beta software https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38349/CSI%20beta.zip Donate GeoffWaddington.ca
Installation / documentation / source https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...ntegrator/wiki
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 06:28 AM   #8
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,446
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Actually we are almost in agreement here , except I'd lose the bottom row
I could live with that.
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 06:30 AM   #9
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by siniarch View Post
Ok, so I searched for some OLEDs and they are not as flexible as I would have liked. Based on what I found I came up with 2 designs.

Design #3 - The displays below the encoders are RGB OLED and the display on top are white OLED only. This design is taller but less wide.



Design #4 - All the displays are White OLED. This one is thinner and longer.



Let me know what you think.
There's another way to save if you are willing to do the over/under trick

Sometimes it's cheaper to get a smaller number of large square oled displays.

Then you do 4 rows of Encoders

A1 A2 A3 A4...
common display for A & B
B1 B2 B3 B4...

perhaps some other RGB buttons on this row or rows

C1 C2 C3 C4...
common display for C & D
D1 D2 D3 D4...
__________________
Beta software https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38349/CSI%20beta.zip Donate GeoffWaddington.ca
Installation / documentation / source https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...ntegrator/wiki
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 06:34 AM   #10
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
What's the cost difference?

I'd personally lean heavily towards design 4 just due to the size. I'd even give up the top row of OLED's [ducks out of the way of Geoff's wrath] if that made it more compact and also cut costs.
The color Oleds are somewhere in the $8-9. The White Oleds are about $4. So about $92 difference. I got to figure out how to mount the white strips and if for some reason I'm only looking at the display and if it's missing a part to be equivalent to the other one? So you guys are ok giving up color?

Also, note that design #4 is much wider than #3. It's deceiving the way it's shown here because I reduce both the images to 800 pixels.

So design #3 is 8.56" x 6.6". Design #4 is 9.7" x 5.2". Of course if I remove the bottom strip, both would be less tall.
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 06:38 AM   #11
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
There's another way to save if you are willing to do the over/under trick

Sometimes it's cheaper to get a smaller number of large square oled displays.

Then you do 4 rows of Encoders

A1 A2 A3 A4...
common display for A & B
B1 B2 B3 B4...

perhaps some other RGB buttons on this row or rows

C1 C2 C3 C4...
common display for C & D
D1 D2 D3 D4...
I actually thought of this, but I think it would drive me nutzzz to not have the display on the same position in relationship to the encoder every time. It might be just me though.
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 06:48 AM   #12
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by siniarch View Post
The color Oleds are somewhere in the $8-9. The White Oleds are about $4. So about $92 difference. I got to figure out how to mount the white strips and if for some reason I'm only looking at the display and if it's missing a part to be equivalent to the other one? So you guys are ok giving up color?

Also, note that design #4 is much wider than #3. It's deceiving the way it's shown here because I reduce both the images to 800 pixels.

So design #3 is 8.56" x 6.6". Design #4 is 9.7" x 5.2". Of course if I remove the bottom strip, both would be less tall.
With that little difference I'd definitely go colour, assuming similar quality displays.

What pixel count are the displays ?
__________________
Beta software https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38349/CSI%20beta.zip Donate GeoffWaddington.ca
Installation / documentation / source https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...ntegrator/wiki
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 06:49 AM   #13
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by siniarch View Post
I actually thought of this, but I think it would drive me nutzzz to not have the display on the same position in relationship to the encoder every time. It might be just me though.
I'm with you
__________________
Beta software https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38349/CSI%20beta.zip Donate GeoffWaddington.ca
Installation / documentation / source https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...ntegrator/wiki
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 06:50 AM   #14
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,446
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by siniarch View Post
The color Oleds are somewhere in the $8-9. The White Oleds are about $4. So about $92 difference. I got to figure out how to mount the white strips and if for some reason I'm only looking at the display and if it's missing a part to be equivalent to the other one? So you guys are ok giving up color?

Also, note that design #4 is much wider than #3. It's deceiving the way it's shown here because I reduce both the images to 800 pixels.

So design #3 is 8.56" x 6.6". Design #4 is 9.7" x 5.2". Of course if I remove the bottom strip, both would be less tall.
With that in mind, I'd definitely say Design #4. Heck, I'd give up the bottom row of OLEDs for an extra row of buttons down there, which might still be cheaper.
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 06:57 AM   #15
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
With that little difference I'd definitely go colour.

What pixel count are the displays ?
the white strips are 138x32 pixels
The color strips are 96x64 pixels

Ok, final design before I have to straighten up my studio. I got a friend coming at 12pm. I was supposed to be cleaning up but got distracted with these drawings. It's exciting to create.

I give you #5


Same width as before 8.56" but Height is 6" now
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Controller_005.pdf (87.8 KB, 29 views)
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 07:27 AM   #16
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,446
Default

I like it! Send one here.

...maybe two.
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 07:44 AM   #17
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I like it! Send one here.

...maybe two.
Hahaha. I can get the enclosure made have the parts fit all inside figure out what kind of board is needed to drive the controllers, but somewhere along the line, there needs to be some sort of processing unit that communicates with these controllers and sends that out to USB. That's where I'm going to have to collaborate with someone. I started looking for someone, but so far no dice.
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 07:44 AM   #18
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by siniarch View Post
the white strips are 138x32 pixels
The color strips are 96x64 pixels

Ok, final design before I have to straighten up my studio. I got a friend coming at 12pm. I was supposed to be cleaning up but got distracted with these drawings. It's exciting to create.

I give you #5


Same width as before 8.56" but Height is 6" now
Love it -- rotate the displays 180 degrees so that the actual display part is closer to the encoder it references
__________________
Beta software https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38349/CSI%20beta.zip Donate GeoffWaddington.ca
Installation / documentation / source https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...ntegrator/wiki
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 07:47 AM   #19
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Love it -- rotate the displays 180 degrees so that the actual display part is closer to the encoder it references
Yeah. Good idea. Now that they are on top its needed. Thanks.

Might have to pick your brain when I find someone to create the circuit board to put all this together.
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 07:49 AM   #20
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,127
Default

Hmmm....

You're already at 7 columns, let's just add one more

You have push tops so you don't need buttons at all really, they just clutter things up

I think you get better functionality, plus a much better ergo/look/feel with 3 rows of 8 encoders with OLED display, that's it !!

If you are really brave go to 4 rows and you have a 2020 C4
__________________
Beta software https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38349/CSI%20beta.zip Donate GeoffWaddington.ca
Installation / documentation / source https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...ntegrator/wiki
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 11:58 AM   #21
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,446
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Hmmm....

You're already at 7 columns, let's just add one more

You have push tops so you don't need buttons at all really, they just clutter things up

I think you get better functionality, plus a much better ergo/look/feel with 3 rows of 8 encoders with OLED display, that's it !!

If you are really brave go to 4 rows and you have a 2020 C4
I'd think of that more as a MIDI Fighter Twister with OLED's (which has sort of been my dream). A more square build of 4x4 with no additional side buttons would make two units stack nicely together side by side (assuming the USB connector was at the top - also USB-B to USB-A please - none of this USB-C nonsense - I want firm connection).
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 12:26 PM   #22
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I'd think of that more as a MIDI Fighter Twister with OLED's (which has sort of been my dream). A more square build of 4x4 with no additional side buttons would make two units stack nicely together side by side (assuming the USB connector was at the top - also USB-B to USB-A please - none of this USB-C nonsense - I want firm connection).
There it is

Funny how that keeps coming back -- 4 x 4 -- so natural -- maybe something to do with pairs.

Yup, equipped with colour displays, that would be killer.


Now let's haggle about the displays:

How many colours -- colour resolution?

What are the optical characterstics (lumens, etc.), all the good stuff
__________________
Beta software https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38349/CSI%20beta.zip Donate GeoffWaddington.ca
Installation / documentation / source https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...ntegrator/wiki
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 02:44 PM   #23
tdc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Sydney
Posts: 449
Default

Hey Siniarch,

Great to see you starting this project, timely and needed!

Quote:
Wait. Tdc, are you saying that you are able to put something together?
And that you have decided to move forward with it?
I have had some experience in the past few years with product development, and this had me thinking about a controller for Reaper. Now, after a few months of a COVID inspired side project, I am somewhat back and keen to help out to explore your idea. I must say that I am NOT a hardware guy, and barely a software guy, but have been working along side some very seasoned professionals so have some understanding of the processes and pitfalls.

The biggest challenge will be price vs quality I reckon. Case in point would be the OLED's that I think you have chosen ( based on the drawing outline, is it the SSD1306?) Whilst these are indeed attractive for size / colour options and price, they are notoriously inconsistent, and prone to burn in - which for a controller that could be on 24/7 isn't good :-) A number of controllers employ a time-out screen saver mode to get around this though.

Its a great time to explore this sort of project, as you can dive into prototyping really easily, with parts costing relatively little. I would suggest that you have a look at some Teensy based projects as this board has a whole bunch of Audio / Midi based frameworks built in. I built a little teensy-based device last week that allowed me to use an analogue expression pedal, and convert it to USB Midi, so I could control some software live on air.

With this rapid prototyping approach, you could begin looking at encoders and displays and begin to assess each's merits, whilst learning important lessons along the way. Websites like Mouser, Digikey and JLCPCB are fascinating to see what's possible and are great product resources.
tdc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 03:14 PM   #24
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Hmmm....

You're already at 7 columns, let's just add one more

You have push tops so you don't need buttons at all really, they just clutter things up

I think you get better functionality, plus a much better ergo/look/feel with 3 rows of 8 encoders with OLED display, that's it !!

If you are really brave go to 4 rows and you have a 2020 C4
Ok, I thought about what you said and yes, encoders with push buttons could be as effective as 4 buttons if we can get 4 lines on the display. Definitely more versatile.

As far as 4 rows, I'm sure that would be better, but I think size wise it will be difficult to implement in my setup. Perhaps, I can do a 8x3 and an 8x4 later if people really want that extra row. But if you look a most hardware plugins, a 3x8 would more than allow you to map all parameters onto one screen. Yes, plugins which are more complicated, you'd have to have multiple screens.

With that, I give you Version #6



as for the screens: They are 96 x 64 pixels. 13/16" wide x 17/32" tall.
65,536 (Maximum) colors. Viewing angles 160 degrees. Brightness min 80, avg. 100 cd/m2. Contrast 1000:1. Lifetime 10,000 hrs.

But hold your horses as I think I just found another smaller display (wider but less tall) with full RGB colors. (similar to the size of the one on design #4.
I'm finding out about as we speak.

Next up is sourcing the encoders. and hope that they fit in this design.
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 05:35 PM   #25
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdc View Post
Hey Siniarch,

Great to see you starting this project, timely and needed!



I have had some experience in the past few years with product development, and this had me thinking about a controller for Reaper. Now, after a few months of a COVID inspired side project, I am somewhat back and keen to help out to explore your idea. I must say that I am NOT a hardware guy, and barely a software guy, but have been working along side some very seasoned professionals so have some understanding of the processes and pitfalls.

The biggest challenge will be price vs quality I reckon. Case in point would be the OLED's that I think you have chosen ( based on the drawing outline, is it the SSD1306?) Whilst these are indeed attractive for size / colour options and price, they are notoriously inconsistent, and prone to burn in - which for a controller that could be on 24/7 isn't good :-) A number of controllers employ a time-out screen saver mode to get around this though.

Its a great time to explore this sort of project, as you can dive into prototyping really easily, with parts costing relatively little. I would suggest that you have a look at some Teensy based projects as this board has a whole bunch of Audio / Midi based frameworks built in. I built a little teensy-based device last week that allowed me to use an analogue expression pedal, and convert it to USB Midi, so I could control some software live on air.

With this rapid prototyping approach, you could begin looking at encoders and displays and begin to assess each's merits, whilst learning important lessons along the way. Websites like Mouser, Digikey and JLCPCB are fascinating to see what's possible and are great product resources.
Hi TDC,
That sounds awesome. A long time ago I build a project myself that was competing with top of the line Panasonic device. Basically I didn't want to pay the exorbitant price Panasonic was charging, so I headed to a large LCD convention and sourced out most if not all the parts there. Had an enclosure made and build my own. I even had the LCD manufacturer apply and extra coating on my screen so it was brighter and looked better than the panasonic one. What I was missing was the money for a programmer to do custom code into the graphics controller. But it was a pretty good product if I do say so myself. I mean, I just went out and got the best parts available.

So we might be on a very similar path, except you might know more how to program than me. If you are working with seasoned professionals, let me know if we can tap into them. I'd be willing to pay for some of their time provided it was reasonable costs wise. I'll take a look at the Teensy-based projects you suggest, but I'm also inclined to get someone who knows what they are doing rather than me get some half ass solution that could have been simpler and more robust.

Let's talk. Feel free to send me a PM and I'll give you my number if you want to discuss further.
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 07:52 PM   #26
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default

Been researching encoders. Take a look at this one.
Pretty pricey if you ask me, but man does it look good.
This would come out about 27 Euros per encoder with light. (not sure if that includes the knob.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_IL63UuWqs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaMVOi2yt4E

so 24 encoders x $30 = $720 which is too much. will need to find an alternative.
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2020, 07:21 PM   #27
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default

Just ran across this Loupedeck CT controller. Obviously it's not Midi but a lot of good ideas there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaRam1e8vzc
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2020, 07:38 AM   #28
cjewellstudios
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 389
Default

As a csi user with 2 midi fighter twisters I'm extremely interested in this project!

I've often said that setup plus rgb scribble strips would be amazing.

For me personally I wouldn't be able to participate if it was over $500. That's me selling my mft's and adding a few bucks.

However, I would like to add to the conversation. I feel like you should have 4 buttons for the modifiers alt shift ctrl and the other one escapes me lol (option?)

But that way you actually do have layers but on csi's terms.

As a mixing surface right now I have rotary = track volume and shift+rotary = pan so when I press shift, all of my rotary displays display the pan position of each track. Having shift be one of the encoder push buttons would really inhibit that work flow.

Or if you are napping a plugin with a ton of parameters, rotary is like page 1 and pressing shift flashes the whole controller to be like a page 2 of controls. At least that's how it acts now and its stupendous.

Right now I use another controller (launch pad style) to achieve that functionality.

So yeah, your above drawing but adding the four modifier buttons would be great.

Finally, and I'm unsure if this is a software or hardware thing, but the mft has 10 or 11 velocity levels. That's absolutely crucial here. If you turn the knob incredibly slow I can increase track volume way more precise than I'd ever need and then whipping the knob would change the volume quite a bit. And anywhere in between and having granular control over that aspect thanks to csi really makes this experience awesome. Anyways velocity is key but again, not sure if that's a hardware or software consideration.
cjewellstudios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2020, 08:37 AM   #29
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,446
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by siniarch View Post
Just ran across this Loupedeck CT controller. Obviously it's not Midi but a lot of good ideas there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaRam1e8vzc
Looking at it, it'd be great for transport, and actions, but doesn't look like it would make a great FX controller compared to what you're proposing here. It looks nice though.

Here's what I'd really like:

1. 16 knobs with OLED displays above each (preferably MCU displays so we can just plug right into CSI)

2. Each Encoder would also serve as a button - bonus points if you can do MFTwister style shift knobs

3. Each Encoder would have an LED ring around of it some kind so I can quickly see the current "knob value" - this is so handy with the MFTwister - if you're going to do color, probably cheaper to do the color here instead of on the OLED displays

4. A few additional buttons for assigning to whatever would be a nice bonus

Once the encoders get too expensive, or you get too many encoders + displays, or start adding color OLED displays, I feel like that's likely a recipe for the cost getting out of control. I think CJewellstudios is spot on: about $500 should be the target.

I'd say, find out what encoders the MFTwister uses, assuming they can be bought, and you've probably got a decent starting point cost-wise. Then what's it cost to add displays? Then where are you at cost-wise with 16 encoders + displays? If you can afford to add more, then go for 24 knobs, but remember, if you want to sell this thing, you still need the PCB, other components, need to pay for manufacturing, housing the unit, etc. If the cost for what your proposing would come in at a grand, that's just too much IMO. The $200 MFTwister would remain the most cost effective option. Hence why I think an "MFTwister Pro" (basically +OLED MCU Displays) is probably a more realistic starting point. If the MFTwister can be built and sold at a profit for $200, then even if OLEDs doubled the price you're still under $500. But if you jump to 24 encoders+color OLEDs, what's that going to cost and who will buy it?
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2020, 11:29 AM   #30
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 10,788
Default

Neat. 16x8 character screens. Hopefully knobs as good as those on the MFT and a bunch of useful buttons.

I use three MFTs, and having readouts for everything would put it almost on par with the old Avid Icon consoles, which I throughly enjoyed using. The character displays were short and you had to bend over to see it all, but at least there was something to reference.

I bet touch-sensitive encoders are far too expensive.

Anyone know what the MFT uses ?
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview - Faderport16CSI
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2020, 12:45 PM   #31
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Neat. 16x8 character screens. Hopefully knobs as good as those on the MFT and a bunch of useful buttons.

I use three MFTs, and having readouts for everything would put it almost on par with the old Avid Icon consoles, which I throughly enjoyed using. The character displays were short and you had to bend over to see it all, but at least there was something to reference.

I bet touch-sensitive encoders are far too expensive.

Anyone know what the MFT uses ?
It's more than the encoders, it's the hardware/firmware/software supporting them too.

Everyone seems to really like the MFT encoders, might pick one up, are they really that good ?
__________________
Beta software https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38349/CSI%20beta.zip Donate GeoffWaddington.ca
Installation / documentation / source https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...ntegrator/wiki
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2020, 01:18 PM   #32
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,446
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
It's more than the encoders, it's the hardware/firmware/software supporting them too.

Everyone seems to really like the MFT encoders, might pick one up, are they really that good ?
There's a little bit of jitter in them (like that last message in a velocity sensitive increase use usually a decrease message) but they're much better than other encoders I have. Feel sturdy with a nice weight and the tiniest bit of a tick to each little turn. Where it really shines is the Led ring with feedback, colors, shift encoders, buttons.. It's just really well designed overall.

My only complaint is the side buttons which are stiff and awkwardly placed. Usually I need to use two hands to press a side button because the amount of force required usually means I'm pushing the surface, so my other hand needs to brace it and hold it in place.

I highly recommend it.
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2020, 02:00 PM   #33
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
There's a little bit of jitter in them (like that last message in a velocity sensitive increase use usually a decrease message) but they're much better than other encoders I have. Feel sturdy with a nice weight and the tiniest bit of a tick to each little turn. Where it really shines is the Led ring with feedback, colors, shift encoders, buttons.. It's just really well designed overall.

My only complaint is the side buttons which are stiff and awkwardly placed. Usually I need to use two hands to press a side button because the amount of force required usually means I'm pushing the surface, so my other hand needs to brace it and hold it in place.

I highly recommend it.
Cool, didn't even know it had side buttons
__________________
Beta software https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38349/CSI%20beta.zip Donate GeoffWaddington.ca
Installation / documentation / source https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...ntegrator/wiki
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2020, 07:00 PM   #34
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default

Yes, I too would like to know what encoders the MFT uses. Would be nice to just get something that works. But I'm assuming it's something they developed themselves and not available anywhere else?
I'll review all your suggestions. I started looking for a programmer/pcb designer that could help with the project. If any of you guys know someone who can work with OSC, I'd like to pick their brains about it, if not hire them to see if this can be both MIDI and OSC. Ideally, if I'm going to go through the trouble of doing this, I think I need to see if it can be utilized in other DAWs.
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2020, 10:50 PM   #35
Pompeysie
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 65
Default

I’m in!

SIMON
Pompeysie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2020, 11:04 PM   #36
Pompeysie
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 65
Default

Anyone seen/tried this?

https://shanteacontrols.com/
Pompeysie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2020, 11:17 PM   #37
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompeysie View Post
Anyone seen/tried this?

https://shanteacontrols.com/
No, I had not seen that. Looks good. I'll take a look.
I was looking at this https://lividinstruments.com/products/builder/ (Brain v2)
But it seems that Livid Instruments is out of business as far as I know.
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2020, 11:20 PM   #38
Pompeysie
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 65
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by siniarch View Post
No, I had not seen that. Looks good. I'll take a look.
I was looking at this https://lividinstruments.com/products/builder/ (Brain v2)
But it seems that Livid Instruments is out of business as far as I know.
Yes, I just looked at the Livid website and noticed that the buy links do not work. Looks like a case of buy bye!

I like the idea of having a web interface to simplify the process.
Pompeysie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2020, 11:23 PM   #39
siniarch
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompeysie View Post
Yes, I just looked at the Livid website and noticed that the buy links do not work. Looks like a case of buy bye!

I like the idea of having a web interface to simplify the process.
I was checking their twitter account and if I understood it correctly the guy might have a terminal illness, but I might be wrong so please take that information with a grain of salt.
siniarch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2020, 11:43 PM   #40
Pompeysie
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 65
Default

This also looks cool.

https://electra.one/
Pompeysie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.