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01-12-2019, 04:06 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,583
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Windows 10 update to increase FLS slot limit
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01-12-2019, 07:22 AM
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#2
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Wow, it's about time!
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01-12-2019, 07:57 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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So now they just need to up the limitation of MMCSS threads that was higher prior to W10...
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01-12-2019, 07:58 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,067
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What does this essentially mean for us, though? Will plugins consume less CPU, e.g. Will this result in better performance? To date, I have never hit any plugin limit and I use a lot of them.
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01-12-2019, 08:01 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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No, just means you can load more unique plugins in a single session, depending on how much FLS they use and if they're statically linked (most seem to be) as opposed to dynamically linked.
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01-12-2019, 08:07 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,067
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I see, thanks for explaining. Well I'm curios if I'll see a difference here :P
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01-12-2019, 08:13 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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You won't, probably. FLS means Fiber Local Storage, it's not about CPU optimizations, it's about memory allocated for units of execution.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...cthread/fibers
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01-12-2019, 08:17 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
FLS means Fiber Local Storage
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so i read this full thread thinking Windows 10 did an update to help a track limitation in Fruity Loops Studio lol
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01-12-2019, 08:35 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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That sort of limitation is purely ImageLine's decision
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01-12-2019, 08:51 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
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Okay, then I might not be affected
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01-12-2019, 09:26 AM
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#12
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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If you've ever found yourself unable to load a plug-in because you have too many other plug-ins loaded, then this might help fix that. If not, then it won't change anything for you.
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01-12-2019, 01:10 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,344
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Yea, been doing mix projects with well over 250 plugins running just fine due to lots of them being the same plugins or at least from the same company.
Anyway, its very good that they do this of course.
__________________
Magnus Lindberg Productions - VRTKL Audio - Redmount Studios
magnuslindberg.com
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01-12-2019, 01:14 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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"Same company" doesn't matter. "Same plugin" does. This is about the number of unique plugins you could load in a project.
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01-12-2019, 02:38 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
"Same company" doesn't matter. "Same plugin" does. This is about the number of unique plugins you could load in a project.
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It can do, waves plugins share the same FLS slots.
__________________
Magnus Lindberg Productions - VRTKL Audio - Redmount Studios
magnuslindberg.com
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01-12-2019, 02:41 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Ah, a very rare case of plugins using a single shell. They might be the only exception here.
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01-12-2019, 02:52 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Ah, a very rare case of plugins using a single shell. They might be the only exception here.
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Indeed!
__________________
Magnus Lindberg Productions - VRTKL Audio - Redmount Studios
magnuslindberg.com
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01-13-2019, 04:53 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 798
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Is this when plugs fail to load and remain offline?
I get this when loading lots of izotope or arturia plugs, I had assumed it was something to do with graphics, but I recently bought an RX 580 and still see the issue
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01-13-2019, 05:12 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Ah, a very rare case of plugins using a single shell. They might be the only exception here.
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From what I've read, some Slate Digital plugins act the same. I don't have any to verify.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travesty
Is this when plugs fail to load and remain offline? I get this when loading lots of izotope or arturia plugs, I had assumed it was something to do with graphics, but I recently bought an RX 580 and still see the issue
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Could be...For example Arturia's Analog Lab has been reported to use 43 slots. You could use the FLS Checker plugin to see if that's the problem.
http://planetnine.jp/wp/2018/03/25/fls-checker/
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01-13-2019, 06:21 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Probably because Analog Lab actually hosts all the other Arturia plugins under its hood...
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01-13-2019, 06:33 AM
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#21
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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It doesn't have to be a shell. The real issue is that most unique versions of the MSVC CRT runtime use a FLS slot. A unique version might be: - Any statically linked plug-in. If you had, for example, staticplugin1.dll and staticplugin2.dll and they were the made by the same manufacturer, they would use 2 FLS slots (regardless if either was a shell plug-in).
- A unique installed-version of the dynamic CRT. So if you had 10 plug-ins that used the VS 2015 runtime, and another 10 plug-ins that used the VS 2013 runtime, then the combined FLS slot use would be 2.
As a result of this the recommendation has generally been for everybody to decide on a common dynamic CRT to use, but obviously it's tough to get everybody to do that. Also, if you want to be able to run portably, using a dynamic CRT is difficult (and I believe if you bundle the CRT with the dll and use a manifest, then you lose the FLS slot advantage).
All of this is a bit silly, I'm not sure who uses Fibers anyway... They should be opt-in for the CRT IMO.
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01-13-2019, 01:18 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 798
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Right, this clears up a lot for me. Thanks
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01-13-2019, 01:20 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 798
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So, if I'm understanding correctly, this is more likely to affect plugs using vs runtime redistributable?
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01-13-2019, 04:10 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Arcachon, France
Posts: 435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Ah, a very rare case of plugins using a single shell. They might be the only exception here.
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I'm up to 4 WaveShells. Not all Waves plugins use the same shell. When I bought the Flow Motion synth today (just under $24 at EveryPlugin.com with code YNY23), WaveShell4 got added.
So, for the really large number of Waves Plugins I own, I need a maximum of 8 slots, 4 for VST2 and 4 for VST3. That's only if I have plugins from each of the 4 shells loaded in the same song.
Nice!
__________________
Intel i9, 32 GB RAM, 7 TB SSD; Win 11 Pro; PreSonus Studio 1810c
Studio One 6 Pro; MuseScore 4; Melodyne 5 Studio; Acoustica Pro 7; Reaper 7
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01-14-2019, 06:18 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travesty
So, if I'm understanding correctly, this is more likely to affect plugs using vs runtime redistributable?
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No, kind of reverse : it should mostly make things better for plugins that statically link into the runtime. That is, the runtime is built into the plugin itself, so that it doesn't need the separately installed runtime dlls. Many plugins have been built that way to make the installation as straightforward as possible.
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I am no longer part of the REAPER community. Please don't contact me with any REAPER-related issues.
Last edited by Xenakios; 01-14-2019 at 06:27 AM.
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01-14-2019, 08:13 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
So now they just need to up the limitation of MMCSS threads that was higher prior to W10...
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I'm pretty sure you can already adjust the MMCSS thread priority limiter in regedit. Stienburg sent me fix for that a while ago. If your interested I can try and dig up that link.
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01-14-2019, 10:54 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,344
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The MMCSS thing seems to be a problem isolated to steinberg daws as far as I have seen.
__________________
Magnus Lindberg Productions - VRTKL Audio - Redmount Studios
magnuslindberg.com
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08-01-2019, 02:55 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,583
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I've just been chasing my tail around while working on a huge project. Kept running into problems where plugins just wouldn't load. Plugins that were otherwise reliable for 10+ years.
Looks like it was the FLS slot limitation of Win8.1
For anyone who wants to check this, Takashi made a plugin for that:
http://planetnine.jp/wp/2018/03/25/fls-checker/
Last edited by daxliniere; 08-01-2019 at 03:02 PM.
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08-01-2019, 05:13 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,793
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is there a way to increase it in Windows 10?
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08-01-2019, 05:19 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,583
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Just update to latest build of Win10. This was launched in January, IIRC.
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08-01-2019, 05:36 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daxliniere
Just update to latest build of Win10. This was launched in January, IIRC.
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I have that one. Cool
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08-02-2019, 06:35 AM
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#32
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daxliniere
I've just been chasing my tail around while working on a huge project. Kept running into problems where plugins just wouldn't load. Plugins that were otherwise reliable for 10+ years.
Looks like it was the FLS slot limitation of Win8.1
For anyone who wants to check this, Takashi made a plugin for that:
http://planetnine.jp/wp/2018/03/25/fls-checker/
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You can also run the developer console in REAPER, then type in "tls_avail" which will check to see how many TLS/FLS slots are available.
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08-02-2019, 01:01 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
You can also run the developer console in REAPER, then type in "tls_avail" which will check to see how many TLS/FLS slots are available.
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Is this good ?
TLS slots available: 997
FLS slots available: 117
Windows 10 Pro Version 10.0.177363 Build 17763
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08-02-2019, 01:19 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 223
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TLS slots available: 1008
FLS slots available: 4061
WinPro 18362.267
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08-02-2019, 01:51 PM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sisaso
TLS slots available: 1008
FLS slots available: 4061
WinPro 18362.267
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Where are all my slots ???? Are you windows 10 Pro ?
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08-02-2019, 02:34 PM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: ASU`ogacihC
Posts: 3,921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
Is this good ?
TLS slots available: 997
FLS slots available: 117
Windows 10 Pro Version 10.0.177363 Build 17763
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Don't you need to update to Win10 ver 1903 to get that FLS update? I'm updating my Win10 PC right now to 1903 so I guess I'll find out, current results...
EDIT Win 10 updated:
Win10 Pro 1903 [Version 10.0.18362.267]
TLS slots available: 1017
FLS slots available: 4065
Win10 Pro 1809 [Version 10.0.17763.615]
TLS slots available: 1017
FLS slots available: 113
Win7 Home,
TLS slots available: 1024
FLS slots available: 115
Last edited by Edgemeal; 08-02-2019 at 04:28 PM.
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08-02-2019, 02:34 PM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
Where are all my slots ???? Are you windows 10 Pro ?
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You need to update to 1903.
__________________
Magnus Lindberg Productions - VRTKL Audio - Redmount Studios
magnuslindberg.com
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08-02-2019, 02:54 PM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 315
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Win10 Pro x64, 1903 build 18362.267
TLS slots available: 1017
FLS slots available: 4063
Should be enough
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08-02-2019, 03:12 PM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,793
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Thanks, I'm upgrading now. For those that don't know where the dev console is, go to actions and look for: [developer] Debug console
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08-02-2019, 05:56 PM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,793
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TLS slots available: 1013
FLS slots available: 4069
Windows 10 pro 10.0.18362
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