Old 05-06-2018, 04:58 AM   #1
BlessedOne72
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Salo, Finland .
Posts: 500
Default 4 The (e-) Drummers

I have a TAMA RockStar - Kit with Mesh-Heads, decent Triggers and a Alesis DM Kit Lite, that provides the Cymbals (except High-Hat) .

The MIDI Data goes to the DAW through a Roland TMC-6 Trigger To MIDI-Converter and the Alesis part via USB .

I'm using a MultiTrack Template to record the drums .

Kick, Snare, 2 Toms and High-Hat each go their own tracks .
The Cymbals from the Alesis Kit go to one track .

I'm using Addictive Drums as my drum software .

Now to the question ;

Somehow the dynamics suffer in some point in the "signal path" .
The Mesh-kit is pretty playable / sensitive,
for the Alesis part it's more like toying .

I'd like to know is there something, that could be done hard- / software-wise to improve the dynamics or do I just have to adapt / change my play style some way / radically ?
BlessedOne72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 07:17 AM   #2
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

MIDI gives you 127 levels of hit strength IF you can set your kit & software well enough to reflect that. And of course actual analogue drums respond to a much greater and finer extent.

I am not a drummer but have a decent roland kit.
I experimented with adding a real hi-hat because that is the one area I really struggle getting a decent feel (bit of rubber will never feel like a cymbal) and I cant afford any of the fancier metal e-cymbals.
Pain in the butt frankly.

I suspect it really is just a case of "want better? Just keep adding money"


One of my pals played drums for Robert Plant on tour & he has been using a top end roland brain and Hart triggers for years. But there again he is a really good drummer.
Have you tried any other VSTis besides AD? I have pretty much all the Toontrack stuff, as I beta for them, plus many other kits & althoug I own AD I dont use it very much at all. I would rather use the now-free MTPowerdrums Mk2 frankly.
Might be worth grabbing that and giving it a try before you start investing any more money in either VSTi software or kit items. Also wait before you start hacking about at your interface and MIDI settings till you are sure what the problem really is.
Good luck.
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 07:41 AM   #3
LugNut
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,427
Default

Hi,
Sorry to say, but the Alesis stuff sucks. The dynamic range you are seeking is unavailable with anything but the rolands.
Although I've heard good stuff about the 2box.
I have a ton of different drum trigger modules. Even the dynamics on some of the cheaper Roland brains beats Yamaha's top boxes.
Not fanboy, just the facts mamm.
For ex, I have a yammy multi 12. Just using pad inputs and comparing them to my buddys cheap Roland playing vsts.....not even close as far as sensitivity and WIDE dynamic range. And that's what your looking for IMHO...wide dynamic range. Not talking audio dynamic range, but the range from your softest hit to your hardest in range of midi values put out.
Sell the Alexis box and get as much Roland as you can afford.
LugNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 02:36 PM   #4
fred garvin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 791
Default don't be so sensitive...

I play Roland too but the Alesis has to have some kind of sensitivity control... right? Anyway see what your trigger sensitivity is set at on the Alesis, somewhat counterintuitively you generally have to turn the sensitivity down to get more dynamic range when playing. Find the setting in the Alesis unit and turn it down until you have to whack it pretty hard to get a full volume crash, like it would be with a real cymbal. If you don't have that on your unit, um well yah you might need an upgrade. Hope it helps.
fred garvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 03:18 AM   #5
Skijumptoes
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Norfolk, UK
Posts: 350
Default

You can adjust the sensitivity into reaper with something like the MIDI velocity ranger (JS Plugin):-
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/1901/DS_MIDI_Vel_Ranger

You may be able to gain a bit of dynamics using that on the input, if you place a few at different velocity ranges.

You can also go in to the piano roll and selectively adjust notes (i.e. only the hats for example) and adjust the velocities, people have to do that on decent high end kits too.

But yes, i've owned one DM Lite's and it's really really poor quality, even the MIDI data lets you down when playing, the dynamics are so hit and miss, they are just really frustrating. I returned it and got a secondhand Roland TD-1K and added a secondhand mesh snare (Effectively making it a TD-1KV). It's great for a compact kit which is what i was hoping the DM Lite was, and it cost me no more as i went secondhand, it's not as tough as some kits but you can still whack it and it's solid.

Last edited by Skijumptoes; 05-14-2018 at 03:42 AM.
Skijumptoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 09:16 AM   #6
LugNut
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,427
Default

Skijumptoes last paragraph is the TRUTH! Right on, right on.
LugNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 09:50 AM   #7
BlessedOne72
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Salo, Finland .
Posts: 500
Default

So ... What do you folks around here think about this one ;

https://www.thomann.de/gb/ddrum_ddti...f96f750f79cba3

I'm thinking about selling the Alesis DM Kit Lite, Roland TMC-6 and my Zildjian ZBT-series (Acoustic) Cymbal Set and go for some Roland pads .

Some serious info now (:

/ zERGEi w .
BlessedOne72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 11:38 PM   #8
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

Posted yesterday "Meh" but today I am feeling more positive.

Realistically, unless you decide to go Roland for your drum module, you are still going to get problems with lack of responsiveness, difficulty in setting up, etc.
After a fairly well-fought battle by Yamaha, Roland rule the mainstream drum module market.

A thought: I started out with an Alesis Trigger I/O coupled with a set of Traps (used to make Arbiter Thins) mesh head 8" single trigger pads feeding EZDrummer 1 which I already had.

Bought a used Roland TD8 module which I still have & gradually swapped traded and bought used till I had a very expanded TD12 kit (still couldnt afford the TD12 module though) with a Gibraltar metal rack. Several years on it still works great for me, especially with the attention that Toontrack have paid to E-Drum behaviour in all their EZX and SDX add-ons.

If you still want to use your analogue drums, go ahead - a set of decent triggers and a good ROland module will still work out cheaper and much better than what you have now.
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais

Last edited by ivansc; 05-17-2018 at 11:40 PM. Reason: Kart Tipe
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2018, 02:00 PM   #9
themixtape
Human being with feelings
 
themixtape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,199
Default

Best value: used Roland TD-3, TD-6V, etc. For snare, absolutely go with a used PD-120 or PD-125. Dynamics and response are well worth it. Cymbals-- still, for te price and convenience... the Roland CY-8s do the job superbly... and last. I've also used a CY-5 most of the time (with FD-7 pedal) with great success. For a time I used the VH-11 and a real HH stand, which was nice but a bit unnecessary.

Addictive sounds great, but something you might want to also consider is the Toontrack stuff, specifically Superior 3. I've used Superior 2 for years and get exactly what I want from it.

The Roland modules just.... work. The new TM-6 Pro module is a bit overpriced ($800), considering stuff they released 10+ years ago does the job, and better (for literally hundreds less).

Did lots of research on this... lots.
__________________
FREE copyright-safe/DMCA-safe music for Twitch/Kick streamers, classrooms, waiting rooms (playlists on all streaming platforms):
https://tinyurl.com/copyrightsafemusic
themixtape is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.