changes from v0_9:
A footswitch connected to Footswitch 1 can now toggle a selected track between Read and Latch mode. Press footswitch -> Latch mode, release -> Read mode.
I find this very handy for writing automation emulating touch sensitive knobs.
The usual disclaimer:
This is an unfinished version which could be improved (more buttons could be mapped to functions), but works quite well for me atm.
So use as is, I will update/revise probably when I see the need to.
But feel free to ask for help in this thread.
It's a good idea to backup your BCR presets first before sending the sysex file, just in case something goes wrong. (Everything worked fine here though.)
I'm trying to set up my BCR2000 so it can both control and get MIDI feedback from VST synths. I've followed the instructions for Klinke' MCU plugin as well as the instructions you provided. At this point I'm getting feedback for fader controls. The problem is I don't know how to get into plug-in mode. THe instructions say to hit alt-plugin. I see on your map that the third button from the left on the BCR top row of buttons is marked "plug-ins", but I don't see anything marked "alt". I've tried alt on the computer keyboard. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks for your helpful instructions. If it isn't obvious, this is the first time I've tried to set up a controller of this kind (to finally get away from mouse-tweaking).
there's as option in Klinke's plugin setup to use Alt on the computer keyboard instead of the control surface.
That option must be enabled.
When you've done that and keyboard-Alt + the plugin knob on the BCR still doesn't get you in plugin mode, try holding Alt+double click the plugin button (generally trying to click twice on a button to get a function is sometimes necessary, because I did some mistakes with setting up buttons wrongly as toggle/latch).
Sorry, I haven't set up my BCR atm, but I think it should work like this.
Also, are you using some kind of display emulation (like HuskerView), otherwise it's difficult to say if you entered plugin mode.
edit:
Having looked in Klinke's manual again, I remembered it wrong, there's no specific tickbox for using the keyboard Alt-key, but it's enabled when you use BCF2000 mode (which I recommend).
To get in the Klinke's plugin setup mode (the picture below), doubleclick on the MackieControl entry.
Unfortuanately MCU_FBF.exe file on the stash is not downloadable due to extension (if you uploaded this file, you should reupload in .zip or similar)
And all the links to HuskerView are dead...
Does anyone have either of these MCU transaltor apps? I'm really want to get midi feedback going with a BCR2000 and it seems that i need these to do so...
The second row of buttons is now used for the quickjump feature (='pads') and also for switching action banks.
The 'global view' button is useful when using folder mode (see Klinke's manual)
Also, the bottom eight encoders can now work as sort of a 'poor man's VU/level meters' (instructions included in the download)
Looks like this: http://s1100.photobucket.com/albums/...evelmeters.mp4
Thanks nofish for posting your work. I've just got hands-on with my BCR2000 and these templates are a great starting point.
I much prefer the BCR to the BCF because, apart from having more controls, the lack of physical faders means absolute quiet and less to break. It's a shame Behringer didn't provide a Mackie Control emulation mode as standard for the BCR.
I'm trying to get pentameter feedback for the bcr2000 as well. Is Klinke's utility pc only? On Mac the Bcr2000 has a control surface option (Bcf2000 preset 1) that works fine for assigning control to faders, pan, ect, and its learn mode makes assignment very quick and easy.
But still haven't figured out how to get my vsts assigned to the bcr with feedback. Anyone else have any luck with this?
Thanks for your work on this, nofish - there doesn't seem to be much love for getting the BCR2000 working with Reaper, so I appreciate your efforts.
But I'm in frustration mode right now, and I don't know where to start. From learning how the BCR2000 works out-of-the-box, to then using Klinke's plugin which wasn't even made for the BCR, to your solution, I'm absolutely lost as to how all this fits together. Yes, I've read the other threads on the subject, and it's all a blur, and most of it references the BCF.
My question at the moment is:
I've finally got your solution working for using it as a control surface. And that's on Preset 2.
Now, I've cleared Preset 3 and I want to use that to control a VSTi synth (a Superwave P8 preset I've imported with BC Manager, but it could be anything). But it only works if I've removed Klinke's plugin and reenabled Enable+Control on the BCR2000 device.
Above in this thread, the FX Plugin interface was mentioned, and I've read the description in Klinke's manual. Is this a workaround for no longer being able to control VSTs directly in Reaper? (Plus, I've tried using the ALT+Plugins with ReaEQ focused, for instance, and that didn't even load the map.)
I'm so confused. I assume there's something fundamental I'm missing here. All I want to do is control Reaper with one preset, and VSTs with some others.
I've finally got your solution working for using it as a control surface. And that's on Preset 2.
Now, I've cleared Preset 3 and I want to use that to control a VSTi synth (a Superwave P8 preset I've imported with BC Manager, but it could be anything). But it only works if I've removed Klinke's plugin and reenabled Enable+Control on the BCR2000 device.
From what I know, you're right. It's either using it in control surface mode with Klinke's plugin or the Enable+Control way.
For me, it depends, I use it sometimes the first way, sometimes the second (if I need more controllers to map and my main task is controlling VSTs).
However I vaguely remember that someone here on the forum with a BCF got it working for both modes at once, with the help of a virtual MIDI loopback (eg MIDIYoke), iirc.
I've never tried this method myself as I'm fine using one mode at once.
You'd have to search the BCF threads for this.
Quote:
Above in this thread, the FX Plugin interface was mentioned, and I've read the description in Klinke's manual. Is this a workaround for no longer being able to control VSTs directly in Reaper?
Well, in principle you're right. But I wouldn't call it workaround.
It's just the method controlling plugins when you use the BCR in control surface mode which Klinke implemented for his Mackie controll originally.
Quote:
(Plus, I've tried using the ALT+Plugins with ReaEQ focused, for instance, and that didn't even load the map.)
I'll do a screencapture.
Quote:
I'm so confused. I assume there's something fundamental I'm missing here. All I want to do is control Reaper with one preset, and VSTs with some others.
As said above, (from what I know) the options are:
- Use the plugin mode with Klinke's extension (then you'd also use my BCR/Klinke-preset for this)
- Try to get it to run in both modes which I can't help with unfortunately
- Or use the Enable+control way to control Reaper and the plugins (with 'learn'). One drawback with this method is that you don't get parameter feedback back to the BCR which is important to me.
Here's a video using plugin mode with Klinke's extension, hope it helps.
Forgot to mention, there exists a default map for all plugins (also 3rd party ones) meaning you don't have to go to the map-editor first to control them.
However when you want to define your own maps that's done via the map editor.
Here's a video using plugin mode with Klinke's extension, hope it helps.
Forgot to mention, there exists a default map for all plugins (also 3rd party ones) meaning you don't have to go to the map-editor first to control them.
However when you want to define your own maps that's done via the map editor.
I setup my BCR2000 thanks to the invaluable work of Kinkle and Nofish.
It works as expected.
Now, since the BCR has so many encoders and we are using only half of them (not counting the brilliant "poor man's VU/level meters" that I'm not using) I'm wonder if and how we could put them in use.
I we could use them in plugin-mode, for example, and map them, there will be less needs of switching page/banks.
Or we can use them in pan mode "inside" the channle strip to control the send level (and switchng to the Send mode only for more in depth settings)
And so on.
Do you think is it possible?
Is it just a matter of setting on the BCR the appropriate CC? Or does it involve writing a whole different control surface plugin?
You're right, if we leave out the "poor man's VU/level meters" we have left 16 unused encoders (minus the scrub and the master). I also thought how can be made use of these from time to time.
I haven't come up with anything useful yet though.
My thoughts so far were that we're ("forced to") emulating the MCU with its 8 faders and 8 encoders so that's what we can only use also.
In other words, I tend to think we'd need a whole different control surface plugin for this.
But maybe I'm all wrong and if you (or anyone else) comes up with useful ideas how we could incooperate the unused encoders I'm all interested and would do an update of my MCU preset immediately.
I referred to this chart btw. for doing the BCR MCU preset, maybe it helps for getting ideas.
Hi,
My thoughts so far were that we're ("forced to") emulating the MCU with its 8 faders and 8 encoders so that's what we can only use also.
In other words, I tend to think we'd need a whole different control surface plugin for this.
Yes, this is my "fear" too :-/
If I understand correctly how the whole "control surface" thing works, when we set the BCR as Control Surface all the MIDI from the BCR goes to the Klinkle plugin, where the MIDI CC and notes are mapped to "do something in Reaper".
To be able to use the non used encoders, Would be necessary that anyting "unrecognized" by the Kikle plugin would be "passed on" to Reaper unchanged. This we we could then map some actions/controls.
But this is just pure elecubration, since I haven't checked anything deeper.
Maybe if Kinkle could chime in, he could clarify some points ;-)
Anyway, as soon I have some time, I'll do some test and I'll let you know.
Stefano
p.s.
Thanks for the link to the chart. I had it.
Will be my firt guidance for my future the tests
Hi guys, not too sure where to put this but this seemed like the best bet.
Recently got my hands BCR, it's working but I'm looking for the easiest to set it up so I can get feedback from plugins to the BCR itself so it doesnt become a nightmare to work with.
Pretty bewildered as where to start, whether this the Klinke MCU is the easiest way to achieve this or whether this really possible at all. Stayed up most the night reading about this and tbh i still feel like I dont really understand it whatsoever. If anyone has any tips or links to a comprehensive guide I'd be really grateful.
I have remapped my BCR already so I have assigned different CCs to certain encoders, and I know exactly how I want to map them, it's just getting the feedback to the unit from reaper I need to sort.
That's the method described in this thread and this way you get feedback back to the MIDI controller (BCR), also for plugins but the assignments of the encoders is fixed (see post #7).
Thanks Nofish. Became completely overwhelmed with OSC, BC Manager, OSCii-bot, puredata and everything else. It's really useful to know where we are up to with regards to with this. So there is either ultimate flexibility without feedback or feedback but you loose the ability to define your own parameters.
Do you know whether the ability to do both will be ever on the cards? It seems like such a straight forward thing but I fully appreciate this is never the way in works in the real life, that's why I'm a musician instead of a programmer.
Thanks again for taking time to answer my questions, much obliged.
Since you mention it, OSC(ii-bot), Puredata is another way to get MIDI feedback going, but I've never looked into it.
(check forum user 'Banned', he did something like this)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Famousbyfive
So there is either ultimate flexibility without feedback or feedback but you loose the ability to define your own parameters.
Well what plugin parameters concerns we are able to define the parameters we want because with Klinke's plugin comes a handy mapping editor so it actually is quite flexible.
You're right though what the mapping of the BCR encoders concerns, this is fixed with this method.
Quote:
Do you know whether the ability to do both will be ever on the cards? It seems like such a straight forward thing but I fully appreciate this is never the way in works in the real life, that's why I'm a musician instead of a programmer.
Not using Reaper much these days so I'm looking for a way to use my BCR with any DAW. Until today I had used it mainly for DJing with Traktor, which is very straightforward because Traktor has a fixed number of parameters, unlike DAWs where things like the mixer have a variable number of faders etc.
That's why dedicated MCU support is provided by DAWs. I'm finding the best and most generic way to get the BCR to cooperate with any DAW is to configure it to impersonate the MCU.
For example, I've programmed an encoder on my BCR to Pitch Bend, Channel 9, and that now controls the master fader in any software that supports MCU protocol. No fancy plugins needed.
But what I ultimately would like to do is have a single BCR2000 that looks like 3 devices in one, allowing me to control 3 separate applications all from one single BCR2000:
● RME TotalMix FX
● DAW as MCU
● Generic CC messages for plugin parameters
AFAIK the only way to achieve this, especially the first two, is to use a MIDI message translator, and looking at the available options, it looks like I'm going to have to write my own.
For example, if I want Encoder 1 to control the master fader in Reaper and Encoder 2 to control the master fader in TotalMix, both using the MCU protocol, then both encoders would need to send Pitch Bend Channel 9, so there would be no way to tell them apart (we can't use channel numbers to differentiate because the MCU protocol itself uses different channel numbers!), so this wouldn't work. Had MIDI implemented channels and "sub-channels" we would have had a chance at a simple solution:
● TotalMix FX listens on any sub-channel on Channel 1
● Reaper listens on any sub-channel on Channel 2
● etc
Unfortunately, this is not the case, so the only solution is to map a different MIDI message (e.g. CC1, CC2) to each encode and then have the translator software/script convert both messages to PitchBend Channel 9 and send them to different virtual MIDI devices (e.g. BCR2000-Reaper, BCR2000-TotalMix).
I look forward to MIDI 2.0, and yet somehow I get the feeling its never going to happen.
Hello is there a way today, in 2019 (Reaper 5.9) to get midi feedback from reaper to the BCR 2000 with the learn function ? I'm only using the BCR for adjusting plugins parameters
Hello is there a way today, in 2019 (Reaper 5.9) to get midi feedback from reaper to the BCR 2000 with the learn function ? I'm only using the BCR for adjusting plugins parameters
I've sold my three BCR2000s as controllers and DAWs are a pain in the ass to get to cooperate, but in theory you should be able to configure your BCR2000 to 'look' like or impersonate a Mackie Control Universal, then it should just work.
BTW use BC Manager, not Behringer's editor which is garbage.
There's (still) no MIDI feedback when using Reaper's learn function.
As Scoox says your options are configuring the BCR as MCU and use one of the MCU control plugins or e.g. ReaLearn. (Though ReaLearn has been crashing on me sometimes I gotta say.)
There's (still) no MIDI feedback when using Reaper's learn function.
As Scoox says your options are configuring the BCR as MCU and use one of the MCU control plugins or e.g. ReaLearn. (Though ReaLearn has been crashing on my sometimes I gotta say.)
I've completely given up on the BCR2000 because 1) Behringer has discontinued it, 2) the buttons kept failing and I got fed up with servicing the device, 3) except Propellerheads, all other DAW manufacturers never bothered to support it properly or at all even though it's a very capable device. I mention this to say that the future doesn't look bright for the BCR, so if you can't get it to work with what tools you have at your disposal right now, it's very unlikely anyone is going to go out of their way to write a plugin to enable compatibility.
Not seeing Mackie Control Universal (Klinke) in Control Surfaces
Hi All,
Have a BCR and trying to setup Klinke. I've downloaded the files and have dragged the folders contents into my Reaper Plugin folder. When I go to Prefs control surfaces menu, click add, I see Mackie Control Universal, but no Mackie Control Universal (Klinke).
Can anyone help me move forward with installation?
- Are you using the 'Plugin' folder of Reaper, not your VST plugin folder?
To find it, you can run the action "Show REAPER resource path in explorer" from Reaper's action list.
- 32 vs. 64 bit issue? If you run Reaper x64 you need to use 'reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke_x64.dll', if running Reaper 32 bit use 'reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke.dll'.
- Make sure to restart Reaper after you've placed the .dll in the correct folder.
Thanks for your response. I was putting it in the plugin folder that contained the normal reaper_csurf.dll file. That is what I gathered from Klinkes manual. But after running "show reaper resource path", it presented a different folder.
Just so I'm clear, What exactly do I place in this folder? From Klinke, I've downloaded 4 things-
1) a zip called "Klinkenstecker-csurf_klinke_mcu-d87f4f3101bc"
2) zip called "reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke_v0_6_4"
3) reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke
4) manual
I'm guessing I ignore the "reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke" and only use the v0_6_4 since I'm running X64. Am I correct?
Do I simply place that zips contents where the "show reaper resource path" brings me?
What do I do with Klinkenstecker-csurf_klinke_mcu-d87f4f3101bc ?
Lastly, on your instruction I see I need to download a program called Husker but that doesn't seem to exist anymore. Any advice?
Unless you need support for MCU extenders (that's what reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke_v0_6_4.zip is for), download 'reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke.zip', extract it and put 'reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke_x64.dll' and the 'MCU' folder in Reaper's 'Plugins' folder.
Here's how it looks on my side:
Quote:
Lastly, on your instruction I see I need to download a program called Husker but that doesn't seem to exist anymore.
Yeah, HuskerVu is more or less dead it seems, I've meanwhile replaced it with the MCU display emulation contained in BC Manager (need to update that in the instructions at some point. )
The Mackie monitor from BC Manager is a bit different to set up than HuskerVu, but there's a section in its manual about it ('24. The Mackie monitors' in the version I have).
as a sidenote:
Klinke development seems more or less on hold (it's still working fine though), another alternative to look into (with agile current development) is CSI.
Placement of the 'MCU' folder looks right, but try putting 'reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke_x64.dll' in the 'UserPlugins' folder also seen in the pic, then (re)start Reaper and check again.
PS:
I know I said 'Plugins' folder instead of 'UserPlugins' earlier, both should work, but 'UserPlugins' is recommended practice I think.