Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > MIDI Hardware, Control Surfaces, and OSC

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-11-2019, 12:08 PM   #2521
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Yep, that swatted it C4 working normally now.
Excellent !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Regarding the MCU driver crashing, this seems to be Windows only. Works fine, stable, but doesn't exit very gracefully.

If you close the Reaper session and open another one (or even the same one) Reaper usually quits. Relaunching Reaper sometimes works, unless the MCU Driver has crashed (witnessed by the MCU not being seen in Device Manager) in which case a computer restart is needed.

Behaves fine on Mac
Yeah, can you guess which environment I use for development?

I use BootCamp and have a dedicated Windows environment on a partition, and as soon as I get the Overlay/Zone concept on it's way I'll take a serious look at stability on Windows.
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 12:13 PM   #2522
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yeah, can you guess which environment I use for development?

I use BootCamp and have a dedicated Windows environment on a partition, and as soon as I get the Overlay/Zone concept on it's way I'll take a serious look at stability on Windows.
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 12:36 PM   #2523
poetnprophet
Human being with feelings
 
poetnprophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Thanks for posting that issue! I may have brought it up before, maybe not, wasn't sure it was CSI or something else. I have to restart reaper between EVERY project, would be nice if this was addressed.

Is it also ok to request: MCU displays to be centered? At least on my Qcon ProX, all track name text is left justified.

cheers!
dave
__________________
https://www.kdubbproductions.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpC...2dGA3qUWBKrXQQ
i7 8700k,4.9Ghz,Win10,Reaper 5,Motu 828es,MJE Hulk 990,GAP Pre73/EQ81
poetnprophet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 01:01 PM   #2524
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
Thanks for posting that issue! I may have brought it up before, maybe not, wasn't sure it was CSI or something else. I have to restart reaper between EVERY project, would be nice if this was addressed.

Is it also ok to request: MCU displays to be centered? At least on my Qcon ProX, all track name text is left justified.

cheers!
dave
Did you get up and running again ok?
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 01:02 PM   #2525
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I like this (I think..)

So now we have 3 separate definitions for the .axt: ActionZone, ChannelZone and NavigationZone.

Does the NavigationZone define which Channels are Bankable, Stepable or Drillable (X,Y,Z)?

I wonder whether the word 'Channel' is a bit specific. In your example it's completely appropriate, but conceivably it could represent a collection of widgets on a C4 surface that don't Bank or Step, but only Drill. When I read Channel, I immediately think 'vertical strip'.
On second thought (re: prevous post where I said "Let's rename ChannelZone to Zone"), instead, let's rename ChannelZone to WidgetZone, 'cause that's what it is
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 01:11 PM   #2526
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
On second thought (re: prevous post where I said "Let's rename ChannelZone to Zone"), instead, let's rename ChannelZone to WidgetZone, 'cause that's what it is
Absolutely, being a collection of widgets to do stuff with (and that's about as specific as it's going to get)
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 01:32 PM   #2527
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Absolutely, being a collection of widgets to do stuff with (and that's about as specific as it's going to get)
And just realized ActionZone is not a Zone at all, but rather an Action template to apply to a set of widgets, so:

ActionTemplate

WidgetZone
NavigationZone
OtherZone
....

An Overlay is a collection of Zones and represents the current mapping of Widgets to Actions, very simple and I think it gets us there, but I'm sure there's some devilly detail stuff to discover along the way
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 01:47 PM   #2528
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
And just realized ActionZone is not a Zone at all, but rather an Action template to apply to a set of widgets..
So, ActionTemplate...........TemplateEnd?

Also, how do we apply Bank, Step and Drill (X,Y,Z) to the Navigation Zone?

(Actually, I think Bank, Step and Drill maybe be a South London Grime collective)
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 01:59 PM   #2529
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
So, ActionTemplate...........TemplateEnd?
I think to be consistent it's ActionTemplate ... ActionTemplateEnd, right ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Also, how do we apply Bank, Step and Drill (X,Y,Z) to the Navigation Zone?

(Actually, I think Bank, Step and Drill maybe be a South London Grime collective)
lol

I think that's the Navigator's job so:

NavigationZone Track

means a Track Navigator which operates on the things you put in it by telling them which Track they are responsible for at this moment.

Similarly

NavigationZone FX

might mean a FX Navigator which uses a Slot based strategy for it's navigation.

Finally

Drilldown ParentZone BackButton

Now the cool thing is, we're not restricted to X, Y, and Z, the navigator is free to dictate the strategy, we can build some pretty bizarre navigators
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 03:00 PM   #2530
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I think to be consistent it's ActionTemplate ... ActionTemplateEnd, right ?
Quite right, my bad

So, NavigationZone XXXX, where XXXX is the type of navigator? (track banking, send/slot stepping, FX drilldown etc)

Quote:
Now the cool thing is, we're not restricted to X, Y, and Z, the navigator is free to dictate the strategy, we can build some pretty bizarre navigators
I can see folder navigation and some form of VCA spill being popular requests

Speaking of requests, would it be difficult to provide access to individual Send levels, mutes and pans. There are Reaper actions for these, but I haven't had much luck getting them to work.
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 03:14 PM   #2531
poetnprophet
Human being with feelings
 
poetnprophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Did you get up and running again ok?
yes and no. I was able to recover a backup of reaper with previous settings v5.95, but haven't had the guts to try updating again. I guess I'll try doing a separate portable to update, and if it works I think i can just import my config. [prays]
__________________
https://www.kdubbproductions.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpC...2dGA3qUWBKrXQQ
i7 8700k,4.9Ghz,Win10,Reaper 5,Motu 828es,MJE Hulk 990,GAP Pre73/EQ81
poetnprophet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 03:45 PM   #2532
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

A portable install is a good idea to experiment on, especially if you rely on your setup for your business.

I wrestle with this, I tried (initially) to keep the CSI system separate on Mac, but when it really started coming together and was so much faster than my previous plugin, I wanted to start using it on Windows, where I do my work.

I keep a series of Reaper Configurations as backup and also backup the CSI folder and current working build, so if I get in a fix I can hopefully fall back to a working system.

If you need any help, let me know
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 03:52 PM   #2533
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
So, NavigationZone XXXX, where XXXX is the type of navigator? (track banking, send/slot stepping, FX drilldown etc)
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I can see folder navigation and some form of VCA spill being popular requests
Oh yeah, defiinitely, and I can't wait to see what the Maschine/perfomance crowd wants in the way of navigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Speaking of requests, would it be difficult to provide access to individual Send levels, mutes and pans. There are Reaper actions for these, but I haven't had much luck getting them to work.
Not quite sure what you mean here beyond what's already there in your Sends page, please clarify for my addled mind
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 04:21 PM   #2534
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Not quite sure what you mean here beyond what's already there in your Sends page, please clarify for my addled mind
Just trying to find a way to get all a single channel's sends on rotaries at once.

Perhaps: TrackOnSelection MapTrackSendsToWidgets, so 8 sends (on a single track) potentially mapped to 8 widgets.
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 04:51 PM   #2535
poetnprophet
Human being with feelings
 
poetnprophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
A portable install is a good idea to experiment on, especially if you rely on your setup for your business.

I wrestle with this, I tried (initially) to keep the CSI system separate on Mac, but when it really started coming together and was so much faster than my previous plugin, I wanted to start using it on Windows, where I do my work.

I keep a series of Reaper Configurations as backup and also backup the CSI folder and current working build, so if I get in a fix I can hopefully fall back to a working system.

If you need any help, let me know
Thanks, I'll try to take another stab at this this weekend if there's time. I do have fallbacks as well, luckily. otherwise I'd be hosed right now!
__________________
https://www.kdubbproductions.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpC...2dGA3qUWBKrXQQ
i7 8700k,4.9Ghz,Win10,Reaper 5,Motu 828es,MJE Hulk 990,GAP Pre73/EQ81
poetnprophet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 04:54 PM   #2536
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
Thanks, I'll try to take another stab at this this weekend if there's time. I do have fallbacks as well, luckily. otherwise I'd be hosed right now!
Glad to hear it

You'll be pleased to know that those .fxt files are still working on the new build
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 05:07 PM   #2537
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Just trying to find a way to get all a single channel's sends on rotaries at once.

Perhaps: TrackOnSelection MapTrackSendsToWidgets, so 8 sends (on a single track) potentially mapped to 8 widgets.
Ahh, nice one, you just hit one of those details things.

Let's assume a regular MCU.

Rotaries control Pan.

Select Channel 1
Expect rotaries to control Sends on Rotaries 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.

OK, what happens to 6, 7, 8, Pans, do they blank out, do they stay around as Pans ?

What if it's Channel 5, do the Sends start on 6 and wrap around ?

It's all about UI

So, in short I have not a clue on this one, floor's open...
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 05:14 PM   #2538
poetnprophet
Human being with feelings
 
poetnprophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,036
Default

how about the press/hold function or the double press or some modifier to activate sends per selected channel on the rotaries?
__________________
https://www.kdubbproductions.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpC...2dGA3qUWBKrXQQ
i7 8700k,4.9Ghz,Win10,Reaper 5,Motu 828es,MJE Hulk 990,GAP Pre73/EQ81
poetnprophet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 05:32 PM   #2539
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
how about the press/hold function or the double press or some modifier to activate sends per selected channel on the rotaries?
Cool, yeah, it's how to display them.


Maybe just make the whole Rotary Section a Zone and then use a Sends Navigator...

Maybe there's a few different kinds of Sends navigators:

Page Style, like the Page setup for Sends -- only this one would be on an Overlay
Splay style like above -- across rotaries
Maybe Some c4 variant

Hmmm...
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 05:43 PM   #2540
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Ahh, nice one, you just hit one of those details things.
I mention the Sends thing because it's about the only thing I can think of that isn't covered by the Overlay/Zone discussion.

At the moment we can step through the sends across the entire surface and this is fine for some things. However you often need to access all the sends for an individual track (to set up a lead vocal treatment, for instance)

We have access to all the widgets via the new .mst, but we don't have the Send hooks to hang them on

In answer to how it should map out on an MCU, for instance. I would expect (after activating the mode) on pressing any channel's Select button for Sends 1-8 to map to MCU Rotaries 1-8, with RotaryPush 1-8 being SendMute 1-8.

If there are less than 8 Sends (likely) then the remaining Rotaries and Pushes do nothing and the associated displays are blank. So Send 1 (for any selected channel) is always Rotary 1, far left. Display Upper shows the send name, send lower could show Pre/Post (maybe we could hang that on the RecArm button in this mode?)
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 05:56 PM   #2541
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

@jamesd256

I just uploaded a setup and mapping for the BCF2000. If you could test it for me with CSI, that'd be great (I don't have a BCF2000 of my own)

Here's the link :https://stash.reaper.fm/v/35387/CSI_BCF2000.zip

.......bed now zzzzzz.
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 06:10 PM   #2542
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I mention the Sends thing because it's about the only thing I can think of that isn't covered by the Overlay/Zone discussion.

At the moment we can step through the sends across the entire surface and this is fine for some things. However you often need to access all the sends for an individual track (to set up a lead vocal treatment, for instance)

We have access to all the widgets via the new .mst, but we don't have the Send hooks to hang them on

In answer to how it should map out on an MCU, for instance. I would expect (after activating the mode) on pressing any channel's Select button for Sends 1-8 to map to MCU Rotaries 1-8, with RotaryPush 1-8 being SendMute 1-8.

If there are less than 8 Sends (likely) then the remaining Rotaries and Pushes do nothing and the associated displays are blank. So Send 1 (for any selected channel) is always Rotary 1, far left. Display Upper shows the send name, send lower could show Pre/Post (maybe we could hang that on the RecArm button in this mode?)
VERY cool !

So you would really be trading Send/SendMute for Pan/Width.

I think a reasonable limit is, as you say, the number of rotaries in the Zone.

For most surfaces the limit would be 8, but some might be 16, or 4 like my Avid control, it has 4 Channels.

OK, that's a new type of Sends Navigator, done !!
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 06:30 PM   #2543
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

AHA !!

We have our first example of a non XYZ navigator.

Here's a first shot, probably gets refined or binned, but here goes:

WidgetZone Sends
Rotary1
...
Rotary8
RotaryPush1
...
RotaryPush8
WidgetZoneEnd

NavigationZone SplaySends Alt+Select
Sends
NavigationZoneEnd

Alt+Selecting a Channel causes that Channel's Sends to splay out on the rotaries.

Alt+Selecting another Channel does the same thing.

Alt+Selecting the currently selected channel takes you out of Sends mode.

So far I like where this Navigator concept is headed
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 07:25 PM   #2544
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

I don't think we need ActionTemplates, because Actions occur only within WidgetZones.

Maybe something like this is better:

Code:
WidgetZone	Channel1
VUMeter1	TrackOutputMeter 0
DisplayUpper1	TrackNameDisplay
DisplayLower1 	TrackTouchControlled TrackPanDisplay TrackVolumeDisplay
Fader1 		TrackVolume
FaderTouch1 	TrackTouch
Rotary1 	TrackCycle RotaryPush1 "TrackPan 0" "TrackPanWidth 1"
Select1 	TrackUniqueSelect
Shift+Select1 	TrackRangeSelect
Control+Select1 TrackSelect
RecordArm1 	TrackRecordArm
Mute1 		TrackMute
Solo1 		TrackSolo
WidgetZoneEnd
...


Code:
NavigationZone Track ChannelLeft ChannelRight BankLeft BankRight
Channel1
Channel2
Channel3
Channel4
Channel5
Channel6
Channel7
Channel8
NavigationZoneEnd
Code:
WidgetZone TrackSplaySends
Rotary1 TrackSendVolume
Rotary2 TrackSendVolume
Rotary3 TrackSendVolume
Rotary4 TrackSendVolume
Rotary5 TrackSendVolume
Rotary6 TrackSendVolume
Rotary7 TrackSendVolume
Rotary8 TrackSendVolume
RotaryPush1 TrackSendMute
RotaryPush2 TrackSendMute
RotaryPush3 TrackSendMute
RotaryPush4 TrackSendMute
RotaryPush5 TrackSendMute
RotaryPush6 TrackSendMute
RotaryPush7 TrackSendMute
RotaryPush8 TrackSendMute
WidgetZoneEnd
Code:
NavigationZone SplaySends Alt+Select
TrackSplaySends
NavigationZoneEnd
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 04:33 AM   #2545
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

Usually don't quote myself, but sometimes it's instructive so here goes:

Quote:
Zones -- designated area of a surface made up of a list of widgets -- Channel is a real world example of this that already exists.

Layers -- on the axt/fxt side, layers overlay the page definition -- FX mapping is a real world example of this that already exists, ditto for Modifier Keys -- Shift, Alt, etc.
That's a distinction without a difference.

Quote:
There is a default definition for a surface
e.g. -- channels/tracks -- for MCU like
e.g. -- blank -- for C4, Console 1, etc. that are typically used for FX

Everything else is defined via Overlays.

In the case of a C4, the Overlay just maps an FX directly to the C4.
No need for navigation, very simple, it is done right now by the .fxt file definition.

OK, Overlay works for that, let's take it up a notch.

Let's say we want to navigate up and down the various FX for a track.

No problem, let's say we can have Overlay Stacks, just like stacks of pancakes.

We can go in and out of Overlay mode -- which really means we switch from default to current Overlay -- current Overlay means where we were in the pancake stack last time we were here -- say 3rd one down.

So we can now go from "normal" mode to the current FX Overlay (3rd one down)

We can navigate up and down the FX in Overlay mode.

Let's say we navigate to 1st FX Overlay.

Then we go back to normal mode.

When we go back to Overlay mode we will go from "normal" mode to the 1st FX Overlay, just where we left it

Now for drill down let's add the concept of sub Overlays.

Our navigation through the sub Overlays is remembered, exactly like our Overlay position is, so that when we return from normal, we come right back here

Extend that n levels deep in sub Overlays, and that is drill down...

OK, one more trick -- add navigation to Overlays -- whatever that means contextually for a given Overlay definition.

So, a bit more formal:
An Overlay describes a set of mappings of actions -> control surface widgets.
An Overlay can contain sub Overlays, n levels deep
An Overlay, or sub Overlay, can contain navigation, whatever that means in this Overlay's context

Overlays can be contained in a list called an Overlay Stack, you can navigate up and down this stack.

OK, last piece:

There can be many Overlay Stacks for a given surface definition (e.g. FX, Sends, etc.), but only one can be active at a time.

So the overall navigation is from "normal" mode to Overlay mode -- which means current Overlay Stack->current Overlay(sub Overlay, etc.)->currentNavigation within Overlay.

To me this seems to be organized more like we think, meaning more natural navigation, while still retaining the possibility of complex definitions.
What a load of crap

There are a finite number of controls on the surface.

The surface starts up in an initial configuration.

e.g. MCU
Usual suspects like Transport, function Keys, etc.
Track Navigation Zone

Whether it's a Send, FX, or whatever, it just the process of overlaying a Zone on top of the initial config temporarily.

So, when a Navigator becomes active, it overlays it's zone, simple as that.

Now, the current Zone in the Navigator can be whatever that means to that Navigator.

Don't think I'm missing anything, anyone else think of a reason we need the Overlay concept.
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143

Last edited by Geoff Waddington; 02-12-2019 at 04:54 AM.
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 06:28 AM   #2546
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Whether it's a Send, FX, or whatever, it just the process of overlaying a Zone on top of the initial config temporarily.

So, when a Navigator becomes active, it overlays it's zone, simple as that.
This sounds much better!

Does this mean that when a navigator becomes active it automatically 'knocks out' the widgets in the initial config to make room for the widgets in the Zone it's calling?.

So, when the 'all sends for one track' zone is called, the 8 rotary pan controls (and pushes) are 'knocked out' of the initial config and replaced by the (up to) 8 sends for the selected track, without there having to have been any pre-planning in the initial config for this to happen?

The controls that aren't 'knocked out' of the initial config (faders, mutes, solos etc) will they continue to behave as normal?

This really isn't that big a deal and I can definitely see someone suggesting that when the 'all sends for one track' zone is called, the channel layout should be the same as the current sends page ie SendVolume on the fader, SendMute on the mute, SendPan on the pan, except that now it's Sends 1-8 across the 8 faders instead of one send across 8 separate tracks.

Regarding the 'all sends for one track' zone, conceptually this is closer to overlaying FX parameters on the 8 rotaries than it is to the existing Sends Page.

I think if you had only 4 rotaries and 8 sends, say, then the rotaries would initially display Sends 1-4 and could then be Y-Stepped to access Sends 5-8.

I you really wanted to go to town on it, you could Z-Drill on either (4 or 8 rotaries) to access SendPan (although this would be unnesessary if you are using all the channel widgets as opposed to just the rotaries)
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 06:42 AM   #2547
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I don't think we need ActionTemplates, because Actions occur only within WidgetZones.

Maybe something like this is better:

Code:
WidgetZone	Channel1
VUMeter1	TrackOutputMeter 0
DisplayUpper1	TrackNameDisplay
DisplayLower1 	TrackTouchControlled TrackPanDisplay TrackVolumeDisplay
Fader1 		TrackVolume
FaderTouch1 	TrackTouch
Rotary1 	TrackCycle RotaryPush1 "TrackPan 0" "TrackPanWidth 1"
Select1 	TrackUniqueSelect
Shift+Select1 	TrackRangeSelect
Control+Select1 TrackSelect
RecordArm1 	TrackRecordArm
Mute1 		TrackMute
Solo1 		TrackSolo
WidgetZoneEnd
This is easier to understand because it's put the widget back next to the action assigned to it in a channel chunk context, rather than saying 'the action is TrackVolume and faders 1-8 are mapped to it, the action is TrackMute and mute buttons 1-8 are mapped to it etc.

Even if we weren't describing a channel type arrangement, i'd still feel happier having each individual widget next to its assigned action.
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 06:43 AM   #2548
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
This sounds much better!

Does this mean that when a navigator becomes active it automatically 'knocks out' the widgets in the initial config to make room for the widgets in the Zone it's calling?.

So, when the 'all sends for one track' zone is called, the 8 rotary pan controls (and pushes) are 'knocked out' of the initial config and replaced by the (up to) 8 sends for the selected track, without there having to have been any pre-planning in the initial config for this to happen?

The controls that aren't 'knocked out' of the initial config (faders, mutes, solos etc) will they continue to behave as normal?

This really isn't that big a deal and I can definitely see someone suggesting that when the 'all sends for one track' zone is called, the channel layout should be the same as the current sends page ie SendVolume on the fader, SendMute on the mute, SendPan on the pan, except that now it's Sends 1-8 across the 8 faders instead of one send across 8 separate tracks.

Regarding the 'all sends for one track' zone, conceptually this is closer to overlaying FX parameters on the 8 rotaries than it is to the existing Sends Page.

I think if you had only 4 rotaries and 8 sends, say, then the rotaries would initially display Sends 1-4 and could then be Y-Stepped to access Sends 5-8.

I you really wanted to go to town on it, you could Z-Drill on either (4 or 8 rotaries) to access SendPan (although this would be unnesessary if you are using all the channel widgets as opposed to just the rotaries)
Yes to all the above

One thing to add, I think that for simplicity and clarity, de-activating a Navigator always puts things back to the default state -- it restores the Widgets it "knocked out".
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 06:45 AM   #2549
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
This is easier to understand because it's put the widget back next to the action assigned to it in a channel chunk context, rather than saying 'the action is TrackVolume and faders 1-8 are mapped to it, the action is TrackMute and mute buttons 1-8 are mapped to it etc.

Even if we weren't describing a channel type arrangement, i'd still feel happier having each individual widget next to its assigned action.
Yup, agree.
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 06:48 AM   #2550
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
One thing to add, I think that for simplicity and clarity, de-activating a Navigator always puts things back to the default state -- it restores the Widgets it "knocked out".
Absolutely, the more sophisticated the navigation gets, the more important it is to easily get 'Home'.

The iPhone has one button under the complicated touch screen, what does it do?
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 07:56 AM   #2551
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

One quick question regarding Reaper Actions.

Would it be possible to get access to the Actions that have (MIDI CC/OSC only) in their names?

At the moment, if you map one of these actions to a widget, when the control is turned the parameter jumps to a value (poss64?) and stays there.

It occurred to me that all the Actions we currently have mapped are simple binary choices (on/off, yes/no) some of these MIDI CC/OSC actions are continuous controller types.
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 08:17 AM   #2552
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
One quick question regarding Reaper Actions.

Would it be possible to get access to the Actions that have (MIDI CC/OSC only) in their names?

At the moment, if you map one of these actions to a widget, when the control is turned the parameter jumps to a value (poss64?) and stays there.

It occurred to me that all the Actions we currently have mapped are simple binary choices (on/off, yes/no) some of these MIDI CC/OSC actions are continuous controller types.
As far as I know Reaper actions are parameterless, how do you supply a parameter to those actions ?
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 08:26 AM   #2553
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
As far as I know Reaper actions are parameterless, how do you supply a parameter to those actions ?
No idea, I was hoping you'd know

No biggy, let's not get sidetracked.
MixMonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 08:30 AM   #2554
jamesd256
Human being with feelings
 
jamesd256's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Folkestone
Posts: 160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yup, just like you can use Shift+SomeButton, you can use Hold+Somebutton.



Definitely planned, but have not not much in depth thinking yet

CSI can follow Track or Mixer, it's set in the Page config -- more options planned for later.

For now, at least you can map that Reaper Action, it's a start
Regarding Klinke style folder navigation, it occurred to me since we're following the Mixer view in this case, drill down and level back up can be implemented via ReaScript actions which are not dependent on CSI at all.

If it's going to work via long press, I need to check how Hold+ behaves, because it will need to select the track, which I am guessing it doesn't do by default.

Otherwise doing it this way it will have to be a two stage operation ; select the track, invoke the drill down function.

(I've got really used to Klinke's folder mode, so it's an interesting one for me)

Last edited by jamesd256; 02-12-2019 at 08:50 AM.
jamesd256 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 12:24 PM   #2555
Travesty
Human being with feelings
 
Travesty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 514
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Ahh, nice one, you just hit one of those details things.

Let's assume a regular MCU.

Rotaries control Pan.

Select Channel 1
Expect rotaries to control Sends on Rotaries 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.

OK, what happens to 6, 7, 8, Pans, do they blank out, do they stay around as Pans ?

What if it's Channel 5, do the Sends start on 6 and wrap around ?

It's all about UI

So, in short I have not a clue on this one, floor's open...

I'd say they should be blank, would be confusing to have some pan and some send, and would vary between the tracks
Travesty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 12:27 PM   #2556
jamesd256
Human being with feelings
 
jamesd256's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Folkestone
Posts: 160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
@jamesd256

I just uploaded a setup and mapping for the BCF2000. If you could test it for me with CSI, that'd be great (I don't have a BCF2000 of my own)

Here's the link :https://stash.reaper.fm/v/35387/CSI_BCF2000.zip

.......bed now zzzzzz.
Cool, thanks for this!

I will happily try the BCF setup you've provided, however, I am pretty happy with the MCU set up.

I tried out your BCR Mk2. Tried to dump the syx via BC Man, no errors reported, but the lights are off on all the presets. Any reason you went with syx only and no .bcr?

Setting it up in Reaper, as expected no dice, since I believe no lights = no data out.

Edit: after trying again, I believe I got the syx into the BCR correctly. RotaryCs now control track volume, but the perpetual issue of logging visible and no effect on the FX params for focused FX. I still don't know if I'm the only one having this issue. If someone could just confirm, that if I'm seeing logging of CCs that are mapped to FX params correctly, but they are not doing anything to the FX, there is something wrong with CSI and not my setup? Bear in mind I've seen it working intermittently so it's not the mappings.

Last edited by jamesd256; 02-12-2019 at 03:09 PM.
jamesd256 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 02:34 PM   #2557
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesd256 View Post
Regarding Klinke style folder navigation, it occurred to me since we're following the Mixer view in this case, drill down and level back up can be implemented via ReaScript actions which are not dependent on CSI at all.

If it's going to work via long press, I need to check how Hold+ behaves, because it will need to select the track, which I am guessing it doesn't do by default.

Otherwise doing it this way it will have to be a two stage operation ; select the track, invoke the drill down function.

(I've got really used to Klinke's folder mode, so it's an interesting one for me)
I think something like this in an .axt should work:

SomeButton TrackUniqueSelect
Hold+SomeButton InvokeDrilldownAction

If you just press, track is selected.
If you hold for a second the track is selected and the InvokeDrilldownAction happens
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 03:26 PM   #2558
jamesd256
Human being with feelings
 
jamesd256's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Folkestone
Posts: 160
Default

I removed the CSI folder and the dll and started with a fresh project, and now the EQ and comp are both responding again. If this is repeatable I have a way to proceed.

Last edited by jamesd256; 02-12-2019 at 03:48 PM.
jamesd256 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 04:44 PM   #2559
poetnprophet
Human being with feelings
 
poetnprophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I think something like this in an .axt should work:

SomeButton TrackUniqueSelect
Hold+SomeButton InvokeDrilldownAction

If you just press, track is selected.
If you hold for a second the track is selected and the InvokeDrilldownAction happens
Nice, this is basically how the folder mode works when pressing/press+hold Select button that everyone is referring to
__________________
https://www.kdubbproductions.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpC...2dGA3qUWBKrXQQ
i7 8700k,4.9Ghz,Win10,Reaper 5,Motu 828es,MJE Hulk 990,GAP Pre73/EQ81
poetnprophet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 04:46 PM   #2560
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,788
Default

Hmmm...

We need some rules about Widget takeover -- aka clobbering -- aka knocking out

Let's keep the terminology active Navigator -- means the Navigator currently taking over a Zone.

Rule: Navigators can't overlap.

If Navigator1 has any Widgets in common with Navigator2, activating one automatically deactivates the other.

However, let's assume a control surface divided into A and B Zones.

If Navigator1 (ZoneA) has no Widgets in common with Navigator2 (ZoneB), they can activate/deactivate independently with no issues.
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.