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Old 01-22-2019, 12:30 AM   #2361
Garwyx
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Is there any additional documentation besides CSI ReadMe.pdf? I find it limiting and can't get it to work. I moved the CSI folder to my Reaper installation folder (where Reaper.exe is located) and the dll-file to the subordinate Plugins folder (which is not where I keep my custom vst plugins, but which does contain for instance reaper_midi.dll).

I have been looking for a way to get feedback to the BCR2000 without it being jerky. If I read some of the comments in this thread correctly, that is something others have been working on. I had no success with ReaLearn and LBX Stripper, and now understand why.
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Old 01-22-2019, 07:35 AM   #2362
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Originally Posted by Garwyx View Post
Is there any additional documentation besides CSI ReadMe.pdf? I find it limiting and can't get it to work. I moved the CSI folder to my Reaper installation folder (where Reaper.exe is located) and the dll-file to the subordinate Plugins folder (which is not where I keep my custom vst plugins, but which does contain for instance reaper_midi.dll).

I have been looking for a way to get feedback to the BCR2000 without it being jerky. If I read some of the comments in this thread correctly, that is something others have been working on. I had no success with ReaLearn and LBX Stripper, and now understand why.
Seems like you have put things in the wrong place.


From the Readme.pdf:

Put the CSI folder in the Reaper resource path.
Mac:
Put the dylib in the folder named UserPlugins in the Reaper resource path.
or
PC:
Put the dll in — Program Files\Reaper 4 (x64)\Plugins\ for 64 bit or the equivalent for 32 bit.

You can use the Reaper Action -- "Show REAPER resource path..." to get you to the right spot for the CSI folder and dylib (Mac), the dll goes to a different spot on a PC as indicated above.
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Old 01-22-2019, 07:35 AM   #2363
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Hi Geoff
I have an 01V96i, so ive been searching today for compatibility with reaper as a control surface, and so I found Klinkes work, and then I found the initial discussions whereby you came foreward to take on this project, and I must say, I'm quite surprised and super impressed and happy the development is progressing to this day!

apart from the faders being set to be able to control sends in MCU mode , are there other advantages with this for control of a 01V96i over Klinkes option?
at this stage that is

cheers
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:07 AM   #2364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Seems like you have put things in the wrong place.


From the Readme.pdf:

Put the CSI folder in the Reaper resource path.
Mac:
Put the dylib in the folder named UserPlugins in the Reaper resource path.
or
PC:
Put the dll in — Program Files\Reaper 4 (x64)\Plugins\ for 64 bit or the equivalent for 32 bit.

You can use the Reaper Action -- "Show REAPER resource path..." to get you to the right spot for the CSI folder and dylib (Mac), the dll goes to a different spot on a PC as indicated above.
I got the CSI folder. I use a portable installation, so it's the REAPER folder including folders like ColorThemes, Data and FXChains.

My installation does not have a folder called Program Files\Reaper 4 (x64)\Plugins\. Should I create that? That still doesn't work. Or do you mean the folder where user plugins are stored?

And then should CSI turn up at the FX Browser in Reaper?

By the way, I do not want to use the BCR as a control surface. Just controlling plugin parameters is enough for me. So MIDI CC messages will suffice. But I like the feedback to be correct.
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:49 PM   #2365
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Hmm here's some strangeness. Installed CSI, using the Artist Mix. After some tinkering got it to work nicely. Then I flip back into Pro Tools to work a bit, and when I come back into Reaper it's not getting any input from the Artist Mix using CSI.

It is working with the old Eucon plugin, and in Pro Tools. Reinstalled CSI to try to get it going again, no dice. Any idea what to try?

[edit] Well, got it fixed. Nothing like posting the question to make things work. I deleted and re-added the Eucon protocol for MCU in the control panel again, and it worked. Did that last night as well and it did not fix it, this time I wonder if the sequence of turning on and off the Artist Mix while adjusting the Eucon settings had anything to do with it. If I figure it out I'll post it here.

Last edited by rapscallione; 01-22-2019 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 01-22-2019, 01:47 PM   #2366
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<snip>

[edit] Well, got it fixed. Nothing like posting the question to make things work. I deleted and re-added the Eucon protocol for MCU in the control panel again, and it worked. Did that last night as well and it did not fix it, this time I wonder if the sequence of turning on and off the Artist Mix while adjusting the Eucon settings had anything to do with it. If I figure it out I'll post it here.
Back when DAW setups were _really_ fragile, I used to Ghost my main drive before ANY changes.
Well, anything driver, app or plug-in related. And because storage was cheap, sometimes I'd ghost at arbitrary intervals.

Now on a Mac, things are much more stable...but it's stuff like this that keeps me from touching much once the DAW is humming along. (Hmmm, is there ghost for MacOS, I wonder...)

Glad you got it working.
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Old 01-22-2019, 01:55 PM   #2367
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Unrelated to the above: Geoff, I know you're using an Artist Mix in your setup. Have you gotten the pan knobs to work correctly in CSI? In Pro Tools, when you have your hand on the encoder, the pan automation works just like the fader- it stays in the place you've dialed in until you let go, after which it will resume reading the automation already in place.

In Reaper if you stop turning the encoder the automation will return to 0, and the automation points it creates are super messy looking. It seems to be behaving normally in the Eucon plugin.
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:11 PM   #2368
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Originally Posted by babyjaws View Post
Hi Geoff
I have an 01V96i, so ive been searching today for compatibility with reaper as a control surface, and so I found Klinkes work, and then I found the initial discussions whereby you came foreward to take on this project, and I must say, I'm quite surprised and super impressed and happy the development is progressing to this day!

apart from the faders being set to be able to control sends in MCU mode , are there other advantages with this for control of a 01V96i over Klinkes option?
at this stage that is

cheers
If I were you I'd start with the Klinke one, once that is working I'd check back here, CSI is still a pre alpha
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:13 PM   #2369
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Originally Posted by Garwyx View Post
I got the CSI folder. I use a portable installation, so it's the REAPER folder including folders like ColorThemes, Data and FXChains.

My installation does not have a folder called Program Files\Reaper 4 (x64)\Plugins\. Should I create that? That still doesn't work. Or do you mean the folder where user plugins are stored?

And then should CSI turn up at the FX Browser in Reaper?

By the way, I do not want to use the BCR as a control surface. Just controlling plugin parameters is enough for me. So MIDI CC messages will suffice. But I like the feedback to be correct.
Ahh, never used a portable install, anyone know where to put the CSI stuff for a portable install ?

What OS are you on ?
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:16 PM   #2370
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Originally Posted by rapscallione View Post
Unrelated to the above: Geoff, I know you're using an Artist Mix in your setup. Have you gotten the pan knobs to work correctly in CSI? In Pro Tools, when you have your hand on the encoder, the pan automation works just like the fader- it stays in the place you've dialed in until you let go, after which it will resume reading the automation already in place.

In Reaper if you stop turning the encoder the automation will return to 0, and the automation points it creates are super messy looking. It seems to be behaving normally in the Eucon plugin.
Unfortunately not possible as far as I know.

In Mackie mode and the rotaries stop sending out touch info.

Touch info is needed for proper automation.
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Old 01-22-2019, 04:19 PM   #2371
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Originally Posted by Garwyx View Post
I got the CSI folder. I use a portable installation, so it's the REAPER folder including folders like ColorThemes, Data and FXChains.

My installation does not have a folder called Program Files\Reaper 4 (x64)\Plugins\. Should I create that? That still doesn't work. Or do you mean the folder where user plugins are stored?

And then should CSI turn up at the FX Browser in Reaper?

By the way, I do not want to use the BCR as a control surface. Just controlling plugin parameters is enough for me. So MIDI CC messages will suffice. But I like the feedback to be correct.
It's not a plugin. It's in preferences, control surfaces

Add new surface, select csi
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Old 01-22-2019, 04:28 PM   #2372
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Ahh, never used a portable install, anyone know where to put the CSI stuff for a portable install ??
On my Win10 Reaper is on the root C, and CSI folder is right in the Reaper folder; Reaper/CSI. The axt, fxt, rst folders are each in the CSI folder (in the Reaper folder). The CSI ini is also in the CSI folder.

NOTE: The CSI dll file should be in the Reaper/Plugins folder.
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:34 AM   #2373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Ahh, never used a portable install, anyone know where to put the CSI stuff for a portable install ?

What OS are you on ?
W10 64 bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travesty View Post
It's not a plugin. It's in preferences, control surfaces

Add new surface, select csi
Of course, that makes sense. But I still do not see it.

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Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
On my Win10 Reaper is on the root C, and CSI folder is right in the Reaper folder; Reaper/CSI. The axt, fxt, rst folders are each in the CSI folder (in the Reaper folder). The CSI ini is also in the CSI folder.

NOTE: The CSI dll file should be in the Reaper/Plugins folder.
I run Reaper on a second internal SSD, so it is D:\REAPER and D:\REAPER\CSI. I would expect the 64 bit DLL to go to either D:\REAPER\Plugins or D:\REAPER\UserPlugins.

The CSI folder is located in my local Reaper folder. I tried both dll's (64 and 32 bit) in all these folders, to no avail:

- Reaper\Plugins
- Reaper\UserPlugins
- Local VST plugin directory
- Program Files\Reaper 4 (x64)\Plugins
- Program Files (x86)\Reaper 4 (x64)\Plugins
- Program Files (x86)\Reaper 4 (x64)\Plugins

Still no CSI Control Surface shows up. The list contains:
- Behringer BCF2000
- Frontier AlphaTrack
- Frontier Tranzport
- HUI (partial)
- Mackie Control Extender
- Mackie Control Universal
- OSC (Open Sound Control)
- PreSonus FaderPort
- Web browser interface
- YAMAHA 01X

I have not installed Klinke's CS.
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Old 01-23-2019, 03:59 AM   #2374
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The CSI folder is located in my local Reaper folder.
Is that the folder you get when you run the Reaper Action -- "Show REAPER resource path..." ?
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:31 AM   #2375
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Is that the folder you get when you run the Reaper Action -- "Show REAPER resource path..." ?
Yes indeed. With portable installations, everything Reaper needs to run can be found in this path (themes, docs, data, fxchains, plugins, etc). So it makes sense for CSI to go there too.
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Old 01-23-2019, 08:02 AM   #2376
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Yes indeed. With portable installations, everything Reaper needs to run can be found in this path (themes, docs, data, fxchains, plugins, etc). So it makes sense for CSI to go there too.
Cool, forgot to ask, what version of Reaper are you running ?
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Old 01-23-2019, 09:17 AM   #2377
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Of course, that makes sense. But I still do not see it.
Not sure if this applies, but I had the issue (on a Windows 8.1 machine) where CSI was not found while the other extensions (e.g. Klinke) in the same location were fine.
I had to install (upgrade to) the Microsoft C++ 2017 Runtime (and upgrade to the latest Reaper) to resolve it.

I am not running portable installs though, and on my Windows 10 machine everything worked without having to upgrade the C++ runtime. But I thought I'd mention it anyway.
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Old 01-23-2019, 04:53 PM   #2378
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Program Files\Reaper 4
I think you need a more current version of Reaper!
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Old 01-25-2019, 05:06 PM   #2379
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Hi Geoff, reporting what may be a bug:

When a channel is panned to the LEFT, the meter bridge (Icon ProX) on that channel becomes wacky, not entirely unlit, but almost sort of flashing. A channel panned to the RIGHT is normal metering. Not sure why I never caught it before...I'll do more testing later, I have some things I want to try but just wanted to share.

Dave
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Old 01-25-2019, 08:05 PM   #2380
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@andyp24, personal apologies, OSC just keeps getting pushed back

This matrix thing has been consuming my mind (aka driving me nuts)

I think I have a workable solution that scales nicely from simple to complex:

There is a default definition for a surface
e.g. -- channels/tracks -- for MCU like
e.g. -- blank -- for C4, Console 1, etc. that are typically used for FX

Everything else is defined via Overlays.

In the case of a C4, the Overlay just maps an FX directly to the C4.
No need for navigation, very simple, it is done right now by the .fxt file definition.

OK, Overlay works for that, let's take it up a notch.

Let's say we want to navigate up and down the various FX for a track.

No problem, let's say we can have Overlay Stacks, just like stacks of pancakes.

We can go in and out of Overlay mode -- which really means we switch from default to current Overlay -- current Overlay means where we were in the pancake stack last time we were here -- say 3rd one down.

So we can now go from "normal" mode to the current FX Overlay (3rd one down)

We can navigate up and down the FX in Overlay mode.

Let's say we navigate to 1st FX Overlay.

Then we go back to normal mode.

When we go back to Overlay mode we will go from "normal" mode to the 1st FX Overlay, just where we left it

Now for drill down let's add the concept of sub Overlays.

Our navigation through the sub Overlays is remembered, exactly like our Overlay position is, so that when we return from normal, we come right back here

Extend that n levels deep in sub Overlays, and that is drill down...

OK, one more trick -- add navigation to Overlays -- whatever that means contextually for a given Overlay definition.

So, a bit more formal:
An Overlay describes a set of mappings of actions -> control surface widgets.
An Overlay can contain sub Overlays, n levels deep
An Overlay, or sub Overlay, can contain navigation, whatever that means in this Overlay's context

Overlays can be contained in a list called an Overlay Stack, you can navigate up and down this stack.

OK, last piece:

There can be many Overlay Stacks for a given surface definition (e.g. FX, Sends, etc.), but only one can be active at a time.

So the overall navigation is from "normal" mode to Overlay mode -- which means current Overlay Stack->current Overlay(sub Overlay, etc.)->currentNavigation within Overlay.

To me this seems to be organized more like we think, meaning more natural navigation, while still retaining the possibility of complex definitions.

What do you think ?
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Old 01-26-2019, 02:16 AM   #2381
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Makes sense to me.
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Old 01-26-2019, 06:02 AM   #2382
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Sounds good to me

So, in terms of the overall architecture, we have: Pages/Overlays/SubOverlays/Widgets, with the "default" surface definition (.axt) itself just being an Overlay?

Does this mean each Overlay contains its own .axt file to map actions to Widgets for each surface?

So, for example, my first C4 Overlay could be an .axt file with: TrackOnFocusedFX MapSingleFXToWidgetsForTrack and my second C4 overlay could be an .axt file with a set of definitions to map a channel's sends to C4 widgets?

Considering my first C4 overlay, could I set up SubOverlays to add additional pages of FX parameters, with the definitions contained in, say, SomeFX-1.fxt, SomeFX-2.fxt etc?
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Old 01-26-2019, 06:45 AM   #2383
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I think you need a more current version of Reaper!
I was running Reaper 5.70. It seems I do not get automatic updates when running a portable installation. Upgrading to the latest version (5.965) seems to have fixed the problem.

I can now add a Control Surface with CSI. I use the following folders:
- Reaper: D:\Portable Programs\REAPER
- CSI: D:\Portable Programs\REAPER\CSI
- dll: D:\Portable Programs\REAPER\Plugins
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Old 01-26-2019, 12:20 PM   #2384
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Sounds good to me

So, in terms of the overall architecture, we have: Pages/Overlays/SubOverlays/Widgets, with the "default" surface definition (.axt) itself just being an Overlay?
Almost -- Pages/Overlay Stacks/Overlays/SubOverlays -- both Overlays and SubOverlays can contain Widgets.

Overlay Stacks are things like FX, Sends, etc. -- equivalent to the Assignment section of the MCU -- the default Overlay Stack is really Track, as you say the .axt file itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Does this mean each Overlay contains its own .axt file to map actions to Widgets for each surface?
Even a bit more granular -- Just realizing Overlays should contain Zones -- each Zone corresponding to an .axt/.fxt file -- Think of the Console 1 where there is a defined Compressor Zone, EQ Zone, etc. -- these would be defined as Zones within an Overlay so that the Compressor could use one .fxt for its Zone, the EQ could use another .fxt for its Zone, etc.

There is a lot of potential here -- we could have lists of .axt/.fxt files and there could be rules on how they map if present, certain Zones could have priority, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
So, for example, my first C4 Overlay could be an .axt file with: TrackOnFocusedFX MapSingleFXToWidgetsForTrack and my second C4 overlay could be an .axt file with a set of definitions to map a channel's sends to C4 widgets?
Yeah, although conceptually, I'd probably use separate Overlay Stacks for FX and Sends myself, but, yeah, have at 'er, whatever suits your workflow

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Considering my first C4 overlay, could I set up SubOverlays to add additional pages of FX parameters, with the definitions contained in, say, SomeFX-1.fxt, SomeFX-2.fxt etc?
Absolutely, that's exactly how I envisioned SubOverlays.
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Old 01-26-2019, 03:30 PM   #2385
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@Geoff, thanks but no need at all for apologies. When there's something to test, I will have a go at it (work permitting). Until then, I'll just keep an eye on this thread so that hopefully when we do get some OSC code to try out, I'll vaguely understand what I need to do!

For now, I'm perfectly content to watch you grapple with concepts and structure, in the expectation that one day this will be useful to me.

One question (for a friend) - will CSI (or is there already some other solution) work with Euphonix controllers?

Thanks
Andy
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Old 01-26-2019, 07:46 PM   #2386
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One question (for a friend) - will CSI (or is there already some other solution) work with Euphonix controllers?

Thanks
Andy
Well, as you likely know I wrote the EuCon support for Justin and the rest of the good folks at Cockos, it's available in stash.reaper.fm - extensions section.

So that is one easy way, especially if you are on Windows -- there is a VST map editor for Windows only, but the maps can be used on Mac as well.

I think you can tell the Euphonix units to use Mackie Control Protocol, that's what I do with my Avid Artist units -- which are basically rebranded Euphonix units -- then you can use CSI.
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Old 01-26-2019, 07:50 PM   #2387
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Sounds good to me

So, in terms of the overall architecture, we have: Pages/Overlays/SubOverlays/Widgets, with the "default" surface definition (.axt) itself just being an Overlay?

Does this mean each Overlay contains its own .axt file to map actions to Widgets for each surface?

So, for example, my first C4 Overlay could be an .axt file with: TrackOnFocusedFX MapSingleFXToWidgetsForTrack and my second C4 overlay could be an .axt file with a set of definitions to map a channel's sends to C4 widgets?

Considering my first C4 overlay, could I set up SubOverlays to add additional pages of FX parameters, with the definitions contained in, say, SomeFX-1.fxt, SomeFX-2.fxt etc?
Actually this rethink has exposed a design weakness in the current architecture.

Right now configuring a Surface includes both .axt and .fxt selections, these really have no place in the surface definitions, they are related to the Action side of things.

Will now be pondering this for a bit, what is an Overlay, what is a Zone, is an .axt really any different than an .fxt...
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Old 01-27-2019, 05:46 AM   #2388
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Aha !

In answer to the questions "what is a Zone, is an .axt really any different than an .fxt":

An .fxt is an .axt with an embedded FX name, that's it !

They are both Zone definitions.

Now what is an Overlay...
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Old 01-27-2019, 07:36 PM   #2389
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This guy seems to have nailed a lot of the controller (XTouch and OSC/iPad) problems with plug-ins tweaking, bank selection and much more in Cubase, and is suggesting it's applicable to othe DAW's (Reaper ?) also. He uses Max and PureData in a clever way. If this is a big distraction then simply pass on by, but he gives a helpful YouTube video summary of his discovery in the link below, which could be helpful ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=esOnlG...me_continue=21

http://www.pgaudio.com.br/site/impro...tegration-daw/

Hope it's of some use !
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Old 01-28-2019, 07:19 AM   #2390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Aha !

In answer to the questions "what is a Zone, is an .axt really any different than an .fxt":

An .fxt is an .axt with an embedded FX name, that's it !

They are both Zone definitions.

Now what is an Overlay...

I sense the Rubik's Cube that is CSI is about to take another twist...

Totally agree about .axt and .fxt not belonging in the surface definition. Probably all that needs to be in the surface definition is the .rst- defining SomeWidget produces/recognises SomeMIDImessage, the ports it uses to connect and how many channels it has. 'Bankable' should probably move to the actions section as well.

Thinking about Zones, a Zone can contain all the widgets in a surface or only some. So in an MCU+XT+XT setup:

Overlay#1 contains: (Zone#1/MCU) + (Zone#2/XT1) + (Zone#3/XT2)

In Overlay#1, the Zones (1-3) contain all the widgets for each surface and is the basic channel setup. The Zone definitions are drawn from the standard .axt files we currently have.

Overlay#2 contains: (Zone#4/MCU) + (Zone#5/XT1) + (Zone#6/XT2)

In Overlay#2, the Zones (4-6) contain all the widgets for each surface, but this time is the Sends setup. The Zone definitions are drawn from the Sends .axt files we currently have. Sends are stepped through using the command we already have (TrackSendBank)

Overlay#3 contains: (Zone#7/MCU) + (Zone#8/XT1) + (Zone#9/XT2) + (Zone#10/MCU) + (Zone#11/XT1) + (Zone#12/XT2) Here it gets a bit more interesting

In Overlay#3, Zones (7-9) contain all the surface widgets for MCU/XT/XT except the 8 rotary controllers on each surface. Zones (10-12) contain only the rotary controllers.

The .axt files referenced by Zones (7-9) reflect this- they have a 'hole' where the rotary controllers would be. This allows the Zones (10-12) to reference .axt+.fxt files that fill the 'hole' with a selected channel/slot FX parameters. FX slots are stepped through using the command we already have (TrackOnFocusedFX MapSingleFXToWidgetsForTrack)

Having thought about this for a while, I wonder whether it makes more sense to have the concept of SubZones rather than SubOverlays. In the above example, Overlay#3/Zones(10-12) could have Sub Overlays (10A, 10B etc?) so that more parameters could be mapped. Obviously you would need to be able to navigate forward and back through the SubZones, just as you can through the FX slots.

I can't help feeling that the above could be achieved with what we currently have with Pages, providing the status was remembered correctly when switching between them.

I had a go at this to try and get more than one C4 worth of controls to map to FX parameters.

I created two pages, identical except one contained a definition for C4_A and the other a definition for C4_B. C4_A accessed .fxt files containing the first 32 FX parameters and C4_B accessed .fxt files containing the second 32.

This worked, up to a point. The problem was the correct location (channel/slot) not being remembered when switching between pages. Also, when I tried to add the Sends Page back in, switching between pages became unreliable.

If you could nail the status/location issue when switching between Pages and provide direct Page access (on radio buttons!) instead of/as well as stepping, I think we'd be golden.

Last edited by MixMonkey; 01-28-2019 at 11:34 AM. Reason: bollocksed up the zone numbers
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Old 01-28-2019, 11:23 AM   #2391
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I am so lost...wish I could help more but please continue!
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Old 01-28-2019, 11:36 AM   #2392
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Quote:
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I am so lost...wish I could help more but please continue!
Don't worry about it This matrix thing has been orbiting planet CSI for a while now
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Old 01-28-2019, 12:32 PM   #2393
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Yea, I read everything and I still don't get it, so please keep it idiot-proof! ha, partly kidding.

I guess I am also hoping I don't have to rebuild all of my maps again, nervous laugh!
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Old 01-28-2019, 12:37 PM   #2394
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I guess I am also hoping I don't have to rebuild all of my maps again, nervous laugh!
....and in that hope you are not alone
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Old 01-28-2019, 03:20 PM   #2395
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Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
I guess I am also hoping I don't have to rebuild all of my maps again, nervous laugh!
Haha, no worries on .axt/.fxt, but .rst might change slightly -- famous last words
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Old 01-28-2019, 04:02 PM   #2396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I sense the Rubik's Cube that is CSI is about to take another twist...
Yup ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Totally agree about .axt and .fxt not belonging in the surface definition. Probably all that needs to be in the surface definition is the .rst- defining SomeWidget produces/recognises SomeMIDImessage, the ports it uses to connect and how many channels it has. 'Bankable' should probably move to the actions section as well.
Actually, bankable will be an Overlay/Zone property.

See Navigation discussion below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Thinking about Zones, a Zone can contain all the widgets in a surface or only some. So in an MCU+XT+XT setup:

Overlay#1 contains: (Zone#1/MCU) + (Zone#2/XT1) + (Zone#3/XT2)
Yeah, I'm rethinking this, perhaps more like:

Overlay#1 contains: Zone#1(MCU + XT1 + XT2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
In Overlay#1, the Zones (1-3) contain all the widgets for each surface and is the basic channel setup. The Zone definitions are drawn from the standard .axt files we currently have.

Overlay#2 contains: (Zone#4/MCU) + (Zone#5/XT1) + (Zone#6/XT2)
Notated as above -- Overlay#2 contains: Zone#4(MCU + XT1 + XT2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
In Overlay#2, the Zones (4-6) contain all the widgets for each surface, but this time is the Sends setup. The Zone definitions are drawn from the Sends .axt files we currently have. Sends are stepped through using the command we already have (TrackSendBank)

Overlay#3 contains: (Zone#7/MCU) + (Zone#8/XT1) + (Zone#9/XT2) + (Zone#10/MCU) + (Zone#11/XT1) + (Zone#12/XT2) Here it gets a bit more interesting
Notated as above -- Overlay#3 contains: Zone#7(MCU + XT1 + XT2) + Zone#10(MCU + XT1 + XT2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
In Overlay#3, Zones (7-9) contain all the surface widgets for MCU/XT/XT except the 8 rotary controllers on each surface. Zones (10-12) contain only the rotary controllers.

The .axt files referenced by Zones (7-9) reflect this- they have a 'hole' where the rotary controllers would be. This allows the Zones (10-12) to reference .axt+.fxt files that fill the 'hole' with a selected channel/slot FX parameters. FX slots are stepped through using the command we already have (TrackOnFocusedFX MapSingleFXToWidgetsForTrack)
Can I get an Amen !!

That's exactly how I envision this working !!

See Navigation discussion below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Having thought about this for a while, I wonder whether it makes more sense to have the concept of SubZones rather than SubOverlays. In the above example, Overlay#3/Zones(10-12) could have Sub Overlays (10A, 10B etc?) so that more parameters could be mapped. Obviously you would need to be able to navigate forward and back through the SubZones, just as you can through the FX slots.

I can't help feeling that the above could be achieved with what we currently have with Pages, providing the status was remembered correctly when switching between them.
I think of Pages as a more seismic workflow shift, going from Composition workflow to Live Tracking workflow to Mixing Workflow to Live Performance workflow, those kinds of large changes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I had a go at this to try and get more than one C4 worth of controls to map to FX parameters.

I created two pages, identical except one contained a definition for C4_A and the other a definition for C4_B. C4_A accessed .fxt files containing the first 32 FX parameters and C4_B accessed .fxt files containing the second 32.

This worked, up to a point. The problem was the correct location (channel/slot) not being remembered when switching between pages. Also, when I tried to add the Sends Page back in, switching between pages became unreliable.

If you could nail the status/location issue when switching between Pages and provide direct Page access (on radio buttons!) instead of/as well as stepping, I think we'd be golden.
Yeah Pages are definitely very pre alpha right now, and probably not really the right tool for the job anyway

We thought the whole matrix definition thing was tough, until we considered navigation -- Yikes !!

We usually think of navigation in three planes - XYZ.

It finally dawned on me that we have examples of those three already:
X -- Track Banking is along the X axis
Y -- FX slot navigation is along the Y axis
Z -- Drilldown is along the Z axis.

OK so where to put this new Navigator, seems like it should be in Overlay, but wait, let's look at the example above with Overlay 3 -- here we should allow separate navigation for each of the Zones so there should be a Navigator for each Zone -- sure, but there's an obvious pushback, we don't want to have to add a Navigator for each Zone all the time, a common one in the Overlay might often suffice, or even be preferable.

Multiply this problem up by Collections of Overlay Stacks and SubOverlays, and it gets out of hand very quickly.

What to do ?

Let's steal a melodious lick from our UI Compositing friends and allow for Navigation inheritance

Concrete example
Overlay -- Mixing
Tracking Zone -- familiar track banking setup as per Overlay #1 in example above
Sends Zone -- sends setup as per Overlay #2 in example above

Let's say we want to have the Sends Zone automatically follow the Tracking Zone banking.

We just define a Banking Navigator (x direction) in the Overlay and the 2 Zones will remain in synch.

So to generalize:
There will be 3 types of Navigators, one for each axis.
Rather than call them boring old (and confusing) XYZ, let's leverage our musical interface knowledge and call them:

BankingNavigator
SlotNavigator
DrilldownNavigator

If an Overlay/Zone/SubOverlay has a Navigator, any navigation operations on this zone will stay local, constrained to this level and any children below.

If there is no Navigator, the one in the parent/grandparent etc will be affected by any navigation operations, and these will propagate to any other children of that Navigator.

Clear as mud right ?

Seriously, ask away...
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Old 01-29-2019, 07:18 AM   #2397
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Quote:
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Clear as mud right ?
Actually, not too bad (FLW)

Here's a little rewrite of the current example (i'm going to stick with XYZ for navigation because i'm lazy and it's less to type) where X=Banking Navigator, Y=Slot Navigator and Z=Drilldown Navigator.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overlay#1: Zone#1 [X(MCU.axt, XT1.axt, XT2.axt)]

Track setup, banks L-R.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overlay#2: Zone#2 [XY(MCUSend.axt, XT1Send.axt, XT2Send.axt)]

Send setup, banks L-R and up/down (Send1, Send2 etc)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overlay#3: Zone#3 [X(MCUNoRotaries.axt, XT1NoRotaries.axt, XT2NoRotaries.axt)] + Zone#4 [YZ(MCURotaries.axt, XT1Rotaries.axt, XT2Rotaries.axt)]

Zone#3- Track setup without Rotaries, banks L-R + Zone#4- RotariesOnly that map to FX on currently selected Track/Slot, no banking, up/down for FX slot selection and drilldown for additional FX parameters.

MCURotaries.axt, XT1Rotaries.axt, XT2Rotaries.axt have corresponding FXT folders containing the .fxt files defining the parameters for a given FX that will map to that surface. Drilldown achieved by SomeFX-1.fxt, SomeFX-2.fxt etc. in each FXT folder.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's no reason to use all the surfaces for this- you could just use the MCU Rotaries and leave the XTs alone (replacing XT1/2NoRotaries.axt with XT1/2.axt and removing XT1/2Rotaries). It seems like it would be quite flexible.

Say if you have SomeFX and it has 24 parameters. You would have 3 .fxt files. If you call them all SomeFX-1 and put one in each of the surfaces' FXT folders (MCUFXT, XT1FXT, XT2FXT) then the parameters would map across all the surfaces when Overlay#3 is called, no Drilldown needed.

If you rename them SomeFX-1, SomeFX-2 and SomeFX-3 and put them all in MCUFXT then the parameters in SomeFX-1 would appear initially on the MCU Rotaries and you would Drilldown to the parameters in SomeFX-2 and SomeFX-3.

All achieved by just changing the name and position of the .fxt file, not it's contents.

I would suggest that the 4-way arrow buttons on the MCU would be ideal for navigation (I think most surfaces have something similar) I'm already using it for X and Y, if I could use the 'Zoom' button in the middle to access Z - bingo!
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Old 01-29-2019, 07:23 AM   #2398
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I think there's an implicit logic here that Zones can't overlap within an Overlay.

If a given widget is contained in one Zone in an Overlay, it can't also be in another Zone in the same Overlay.

Last edited by MixMonkey; 01-29-2019 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 01-29-2019, 08:36 AM   #2399
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Default FaderPort 8 Select Far Left From DAW Click

Hi, I know it has been asked, but can't figure out how to do it and it's bugging me a little. If I click ANY of the tracks in reaper (event the last one), is it possible that the faderport 8 show the selected tracks in reaper as the far left fader selected?

Thanks for help
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Old 01-30-2019, 05:22 AM   #2400
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I've been following this thread now for a year but am overwhelmed by the features and information about what and how to implement things.

I really think this should have it's own sub-forum as a development project. It's very difficult difficult to search anything in a single thread.

Is this is actually usable yet other than for getting some faders moving?

I tested it a few weeks back on my Faderport 8 but only get the faders working erratically and a few buttons. Wasn't really doing much that the standard MCU controller doesn't do better. There were no track names, volume information etc presented on the mixer display.

Feels like this project will go on for another 2-3 years before anything will come into fruition.

This isn't a criticism about the project or the current status but I get the impression at the moment it will do everything and nothing.
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