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Old 09-26-2015, 08:32 AM   #1
Daniovan
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Default Vers. 5 makes Reaper look old and slow !-?

Hello,

am I the only one who has noticed and-or dares to say that Reaper has become old and slow since release of version 5 ?
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:45 AM   #2
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I don't know about old and slow but version 5 seems to be a tiny bit less snappy as far as project load times and effects. Minor inconvenience when weighed against the performance improvements and feature upgrades.
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Old 09-26-2015, 10:23 AM   #3
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I don't know about old and slow but version 5 seems to be a tiny bit less snappy as far as project load times and effects. Minor inconvenience when weighed against the performance improvements and feature upgrades.
Hello,

I agree. Especially Take FX Automation and VCA are two great new features for me.

But I am concerned it might even get worse in the future.

Many Forum posts and-or reviews show that the main strength of Reaper is the fact that it is stable, does not eat too many resources and runs on many different systems with not too high system requirements.

Is Reaper going to lose its well-known strengths ?
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Old 09-26-2015, 10:43 AM   #4
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All's fine here, no slow down, no instability... business as usual.



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Old 09-26-2015, 10:44 AM   #5
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same here....all well
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Old 09-26-2015, 11:14 AM   #6
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Thanks for your replies. Maybe i7 processor is just not good enough any more for Reaper 5 ?!
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Old 09-26-2015, 11:17 AM   #7
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Do I dare to upgrade with my 8 year old core duo 2?
Any comments from old CPU users who has upgraded?
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Old 09-26-2015, 11:42 AM   #8
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My i5 laptop on win10 is still whizzing along happily.

The studio i7 4770 is slightly slower to load Windows 8.1 as it hasnt got an SSD like the lappy but I dont see any discernible difference performance wise in Reaper or anything else for that matter.

Are you sure you arent just running more plugs than before? Try loading an old project and see how it goes?
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Old 09-26-2015, 11:54 AM   #9
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I dont know what an "old" DAW is.

beside that I cant second on the "old and slow" complain. Reaper starts around 20 times faster with a project loaded as Cubase. so, now I dont even know what "slow" for Reaper means.

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Old 09-26-2015, 12:28 PM   #10
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My i5 laptop on win10 is still whizzing along happily.

The studio i7 4770 is slightly slower to load Windows 8.1 as it hasnt got an SSD like the lappy but I dont see any discernible difference performance wise in Reaper or anything else for that matter.

Are you sure you arent just running more plugs than before? Try loading an old project and see how it goes?
Do you mean more plugins in one project or more plugin in plugins folder ? I do not think the amount of plugins in the folder would have any influence on performance ?! Most plugins I use are Reaper plugins anway (ReaComp, ReaEQ and Readelay and Rearecerbate and Reaverb and two more and some JS plugins and some third Party, too, but not too many, I still use quite a lot of Hardware instruments )
It is not really a problem yet, but I do not hope next updates will slow everything down again

old was kinda ironical (iron.= aged, an aged man must do things more slowly !), "mature" would be apt !
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Old 09-26-2015, 12:31 PM   #11
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My i7-4790 loads Reaper-5 in very close to 1-second.

That's about the same as Reaper-4.

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Old 09-26-2015, 12:31 PM   #12
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I find that Reaper v5 is only slower if I try to run certain plugins that are buggy. After removing those plugins, it's normal speed again.

But as for looks, I don't like the v5 GUI, so I always have it set to v4 default.
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Old 09-26-2015, 12:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
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My i7-4790 loads Reaper-5 in very close to 1-second.

That's about the same as Reaper-4.

1 second ???? hehe you are kidding

okay maybe an empty project without any tracks and plugins, maybe 5 seconds !
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Old 09-26-2015, 12:39 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Nystagmus View Post
I find that Reaper v5 is only slower if I try to run certain plugins that are buggy. After removing those plugins, it's normal speed again.

But as for looks, I don't like the v5 GUI, so I always have it set to v4 default.
My first thoughts, too, I suppose, Reaper devs want us to use Reaper plugins only, when loading third-party plugins it takes too much time, now. But I am okay with this policy, I like Reaper plugins
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:23 PM   #15
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I don't have time or want to go through the changelog but it's more likely that the implementation of VST3 requires more checks or setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniovan
I suppose, Reaper devs want us to use Reaper plugins only
You should probably read up on Occam's Razor.
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
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1 second ???? hehe you are kidding

okay maybe an empty project without any tracks and plugins, maybe 5 seconds !
Don't Blink!!!!!

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Old 09-26-2015, 01:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniovan View Post
My first thoughts, too, I suppose, Reaper devs want us to use Reaper plugins only, when loading third-party plugins it takes too much time, now. But I am okay with this policy, I like Reaper plugins
surely not. if they wanted us to use only Reaper-plugs they wouldnt make the fuzz of implementing all sorts of plugins. and they would make more plugins themself and sell them.

wild guesses on your side?
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:43 PM   #18
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I noticed no difference at all. i5 desktop.
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:48 PM   #19
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Don't Blink!!!!!

The very first start after booting your pc ? Or the 2nd ? The 2nd is a lot faster of course !
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:50 PM   #20
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We're not aware of any changes since version 4 that would affect performance. If you have a specific example of a project that is "less snappy" in REAPER 5 vs REAPER 4, we'd be happy to look at it.
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:50 PM   #21
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surely not. if they wanted us to use only Reaper-plugs they wouldnt make the fuzz of implementing all sorts of plugins. and they would make more plugins themself and sell them.

wild guesses on your side?
Of course assumptions only, I am not a dev, am I ?-! So how could I know, I use ReaperPlugins and hardware, so I do not care about implementation of other plugins that much ! Why would Reaper have to make more plugins ? They have more than you need for a usual production !-?
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:54 PM   #22
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The very first start after booting your pc ? Or the 2nd ? The 2nd is a lot faster of course !
Well that licecap was after I've been up and running for a while. Incidentally, the first licecap I showed was not quite right, but the second one is.

I could restart and do it again but really and truly does it make a difference. I mean I'm in and out of Reaper many times during a day.

I will give it a try though. You could be right.
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:58 PM   #23
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We're not aware of any changes since version 4 that would affect performance. If you have a specific example of a project that is "less snappy" in REAPER 5 vs REAPER 4, we'd be happy to look at it.
Only two users have noticed a slight change by now, so I suppose there must be a different reason !-?
If we had 10 users, then maybe a check would be advisable.

I do not need a perfect workflow, anyway, as long as my daw does not crash, everything is fine.

If we had about 100 users, maybe you would have to think about releasing Reaper 7 as soon as possible, just like Windows, they did not release Win 9, but jumped to 10, cuz WIN 8 was a dead loss hehe
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Old 09-26-2015, 02:10 PM   #24
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Okay, this is after a total shut down and restart. Not much difference.



The only thing I can say is I've set up my plugins so that I only load the ones I want for Reaper 64. In other words, I only have a few 32-bit plugins that I load.
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Old 09-26-2015, 02:13 PM   #25
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okay Tod, your PC has turbo speed, congrats !

All I can see is that you have one plugin only!?
I saw in another thread that you like Voxengo Span and again I ve noticed that Voxengo Span is the only plugin you have in your default project hehe

I have an analyzer plugin, too sometimes, it´s called Blue Dog or something similar, it is a free one

I have checked again. Actually there is a BIG difference, it takes about three and a half times longer to load your project, but still fast ! 3.5 times is a lot !

You have only one plugin (Voxengo Span) in your project and it takes 3.5 times longer.
If you have 2 plugins it could be 7 x
Imagine you have 20 plugin in one project, then it could take 70 x longer !!! but the first load of project after 1st boot of pc only !
Your 2nd project (re-)load is ultra fast !
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Old 09-26-2015, 02:33 PM   #26
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okay Tod, your PC has turbo speed, congrats !

All I can see is that you have one plugin only!?
I saw in another thread that you like Voxengo Span and again I ve noticed that Voxengo Span is the only plugin you have in your default project hehe

I have an analyzer plugin, too sometimes, it´s called Blue Dog or something similar, it is a free one

I have checked again. Actually there is a BIG difference, it takes about three and a half times longer to load your project, but still fast ! 3.5 times is a lot !

You have only one plugin (Voxengo Span) in your project and it takes 3.5 times longer.
If you have 2 plugins it could be 7 x
Imagine you have 20 plugin in one project, then it could take 70 x longer !!!
Hi Daniovan, I'm not sure what you're talking about here. I have all my 64-bit plugins, which are many, but like I said, I've narrowed down my 32-bit plugins to just a very few.

Besides, if it's the plugins that are hanging you up, then that's not Reaper's fault, right.
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Old 09-26-2015, 02:38 PM   #27
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Hi Daniovan, I'm not sure what you're talking about here. I have all my 64-bit plugins, which are many, but like I said, I've narrowed down my 32-bit plugins to just a very few.

Besides, if it's the plugins that are hanging you up, then that's not Reaper's fault, right.
Could you explain please. You have all your plugins ?? but you do not have all 64 bit plugins selected in the project that you open/load in your example, do you ? I only see a master track. If I selected all 64 bit plugins in my master track, that would be about - I do not know - all Reaplugins and JS plugins and some more, maybe 70 ??? Why would you select/load all ??? I think I do not really understand !?

If it is a plugin that is hanging me up in Version 5, but not in 4, then something has changed, but not with the plugin, plugin is the same, right :-) !
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Old 09-26-2015, 02:38 PM   #28
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Quote:
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but the first load of project after 1st boot of pc only !
Your 2nd project (re-)load is ultra fast !
Slowness that only happens once every boot is more likely to be caused by your HDD fetching stuff all around rather than by software. Maybe defragmenting your plugin partition would help? Or switching to a SSD.

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Old 09-26-2015, 02:59 PM   #29
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Could you explain please. You have all your plugins ?? but you do not have all 64 bit plugins selected in the project that you open/load in your example, do you ? I only see a master track. If I selected all 64 bit plugins in my master track, that would be about - I do not know - all Reaplugins and JS plugins and some more, maybe 70 ??? Why would you select/load all ??? I think I do not really understand !?

If it is a plugin that is hanging me up in Version 5, but not in 4, then something has changed, but not with the plugin, plugin is the same, right :-) !
Hi Daniovan, I'm not sure what you're actually referring to, are you aware of Preverences>Plugins>VST? that's where you set your VST plugins up.

I've got all my 64bit plugins setup and the few 32-bit plugins I want to use.

One thing I will say, I did set up a separate folder for the few 32-bit plugins I wanted to use. There are only about 3 in there.

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Slowness that only happens once every boot is more likely to be caused by your HDD fetching stuff all around rather than by software. Maybe defragmenting your plugin partition would help? Or switching to a SSD.
Yes, I have a SSD for my C:\Drive.
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Old 09-26-2015, 03:00 PM   #30
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I am a little confused now.

Would I improve my performance (Speed) by narrowing down my plugin Folder with dll files ? regardless of whether I use the plugins in a project or not (I surely do not use all plugins in one project only !) ?

I have noticed that a project load with more plugins (let us say 8 instances of Kontakt and 5 of NI Reaktor and some more) takes longer than an empty project with no plugins at all. !? So does it matter how many plugins you generally have in your plugin folder ?
If that´s the case I will start deleting some plugins immediately !-?

And TOD, thanks a lot for your nice replies, I am sure there is someting I do not understand...
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Old 09-26-2015, 03:15 PM   #31
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For the live shows, we still have the core2quad and it seems fine. Project load times get weird on the desktop i7 if there are any vst3 plugs though for me
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Old 09-26-2015, 03:25 PM   #32
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Quote:
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I have noticed that a project load with more plugins (let us say 8 instances of Kontakt and 5 of NI Reaktor and some more) takes longer than an empty project with no plugins at all. !?
Wow, 8 instances of Kontakt? Depending on how many instruments you have put in them and how big they are, this can easily amount to many GB of data it must load from your drive (thankfully Kontakt fetches most of it in background by default)!
Try Kontakt's "update sample pool" feature in the Purge menu once you have played your project from start to end. This will unload all unused samples and it should reduce your load time after a reboot drastically.

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So does it matter how many plugins you generally have in your plugin folder ?
If that´s the case I will start deleting some plugins immediately !-?
Not much, I think. REAPER doesn't load unused plugins unless they are new (to fetch their name and maybe other stuff – if you haven't disabled this option – then it's cached in a file).

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Old 09-26-2015, 04:10 PM   #33
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I have noticed that a project load with more plugins (let us say 8 instances of Kontakt and 5 of NI Reaktor and some more) takes longer than an empty project with no plugins at all. !? So does it matter how many plugins you generally have in your plugin folder ?
If that´s the case I will start deleting some plugins immediately !-?

And TOD, thanks a lot for your nice replies, I am sure there is someting I do not understand...
Hi Daniovan, okay, you're not talking about just loading Reaper, you're talking about loading projects.

That's a different scenario, and will indeed depend on how big your project is.

Quote:
So does it matter how many plugins you generally have in your plugin folder ?
If that´s the case I will start deleting some plugins immediately !-?
Yes, I recommend to get rid of all plugins that you really don't use any more. If you're using Reaper-64bit then get rid of as many 32-bit plugins that you can.

Like cfillion says, 8 instances of Kontakt is a lot, even if you have them all in DFD mode. If they are in Sampler mode then prepare to wait a quite a few minutes because they have to load each sample.
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:06 PM   #34
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Also it's good to have nothing but the .dll files in that folder (no samples, settings and stuff) unless the .dll demands it.

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Old 09-26-2015, 07:36 PM   #35
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My template currently has 5 instances of Kontakt and it was getting hung up on one specific instance. I decided to use Windows Defender instead of Avira free and that was causing the incredibly slow template load. It was scanning the files every time I loaded it.

I excluded my VST, and sample library folder, from being scanned and it is quite fast.

Perhaps something like that is happening?
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Old 09-26-2015, 11:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
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I have noticed that a project load with more plugins (let us say 8 instances of Kontakt and 5 of NI Reaktor and some more) takes longer than an empty project with no plugins at all. !? So does it matter how many plugins you generally have in your plugin folder ?
No, Reaper will only load the plugins that are needed in the project you're opening. How many plugins you have overall shouldn't affect it.

BUT, loading up multiple instances of Kontakt and Reaktor will take a certain amount of time, because Reaper has to fetch all the samples and load them into memory. This isn't Reaper being slow, any other DAW would have to do the same thing.

If you're using standard hard drives (meaning not SSD drives) make sure to defragment them every now and then. It keeps the files tidy and makes it go faster when Reaper, or Windows, has to go looking for them.


I have so many open projects going right now that I thought I'd hold off on moving to Reaper 5 until I finished them and saw how the upgrade was working out for everyone else. But my curiosity got the better of me once I did a portable install to check it out and I just went for it and I haven't had a single hiccup.

Actually, I've noticed that 5 seems to load things up a bit FASTER than 4 did, at least for me. It also seems to handle some problematic plugs better than 4 did; a few of them used to crash 4 sometimes and it hasn't happened with 5.

I know it's just the nature of things that people are more likely to speak up if they've got a problem so it makes things look more negative than they really are, so I'll just pipe up to say I stepped up to 5 without a single issue and it's a well oiled machine for me.
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Old 09-27-2015, 12:46 AM   #37
Daniovan
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Hello, thank you so much for so many replies.

P-L-E-A-S-E do not hate me, but I am still a little confused.

First I want to stress that Reaper´s Version 5 is a great update and repeat that the title is somehow ironical.
I have noticed only s-l-i-g-h-t changes regarding loading speed.

@ cfillion
8 instances of Kontakt at times, each instance represents an Instrument Group such as drums, Percussion, orchestral, piano... A-N-D I know what "purge" is for !
Yes and I know that new plugins appear in "new" folder the first time you load a project after having installed a new plugin. Sorry, for being a little meticulous, but you write you "think" an "not much". Not much means "maybe a little" and thinking is not knowing, so?

@ Tod
Tod recommends to get rid of all plugins that you do not use any more.
But I have them all in one Folder (64 bit or 32 bit) and I have my own folder in Reaper to select the effects I need on several occasions called "favorites" or "compressors" or "eqs" and also for instruments such as e-guitar fx, drum fx...
Why delete if it does not affect your performance ? dll files do not use much disc space !

@ Mr Data

Yes, I only have dll files in one folder, but I am not sure if it really matters, cuz if you load let us say "Kjaerhus Classic Reverb" plugin, Reaper will find it, if it is in taht Folder no matter whether there would also be some was samples in that Folder, they would would not affect loading time, I think - I think means I suppose means I do not know for sure !-?

@ dartmorphling

I think, it is better to disable such software when you work with Reaper.

@ Mind Riot

Mind Riot says
"No, Reaper will only load the plugins that are needed in the project you're opening. How many plugins you have overall shouldn't affect it. "

That´s what I also think, but again: thinking is not knowing for sure !-?


The question is still: to delete or not to delete ?

What would Shakespeare say ?

One more thing: I start every new project from scratch ! I have found out that using project templates with plugins already inserted is not good for my creativity, just because I started repeating things and repetition is boring in this case. I prefer experimentation and surprises...
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Old 09-27-2015, 01:14 AM   #38
siehorst
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniovan View Post
The very first start after booting your pc ? Or the 2nd ? The 2nd is a lot faster of course !
ok, maybe two seconds but with a small project to load on my laptop.
I haven't took the time with V4, for what reason? Is it so important if reaper takes one or 5 seconds?
With V5 I have less problems (video) so far.
horst
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Old 09-27-2015, 01:39 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siehorst View Post
ok, maybe two seconds but with a small project to load on my laptop.
I haven't took the time with V4, for what reason? Is it so important if reaper takes one or 5 seconds?
With V5 I have less problems (video) so far.
horst
Not as for small Projects, but small projects can become big Projects, then it does matter ! then the difference could be a lot more than just 5 seconds !
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Old 09-27-2015, 02:41 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniovan View Post
@ Mind Riot

Mind Riot says
"No, Reaper will only load the plugins that are needed in the project you're opening. How many plugins you have overall shouldn't affect it. "

That´s what I also think, but again: thinking is not knowing for sure !-?


The question is still: to delete or not to delete ?

What would Shakespeare say ?
If you don't want a particular plug anymore you can delete it, but it's not going to make your projects that use OTHER plugs load any faster or slower.


Or, if Shakespeare is your thing: Lo! Wouldst thou find thine project doth weigh upon thy soul, for it proveth to delay in its arrival beyond all reason? Take heed! For thou may try to lighten thy burden by uprooting thine plugs which doth now merely sit on thine hard drive, proving neither useful nor pleasing to thine eye, and thou wouldst believeth their removal might hasten the appearance of thine projects, but no! Hear me now! 'Tis a fool's errand! And thou wouldst surely find thinesself still vexed by the damnable delay, 'till thou sought thy proper solution!
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