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Old 06-22-2010, 04:09 AM   #1
nofish
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Default setup-guide to use Behringer BCR2000 as Mackie emu with Klinke's plugin

---
latest version of the preset (v0.96) here:
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...48&postcount=7
---


I've decided to start a own thread for not cluttering Klinke's main thread too much.

This is a guide how to setup the BCR2000 to use as Mackie emulation in Reaper along with Klinke's great MCU plugin found here.
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=48908

It's how I use my BCR atm with Reaper and I'm quite happy with it.

sysex preset and setup-pdf is found here:

https://stash.reaper.fm/5423/BCR2000%...0%20v0_9_1.zip

changes from v0_9:
A footswitch connected to Footswitch 1 can now toggle a selected track between Read and Latch mode. Press footswitch -> Latch mode, release -> Read mode.
I find this very handy for writing automation emulating touch sensitive knobs.

The usual disclaimer:
This is an unfinished version which could be improved (more buttons could be mapped to functions), but works quite well for me atm.
So use as is, I will update/revise probably when I see the need to.
But feel free to ask for help in this thread.
It's a good idea to backup your BCR presets first before sending the sysex file, just in case something goes wrong. (Everything worked fine here though.)

Known issues:
Recording automation when changing send amount via control surface doesn't work.
more details here:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...387#post531387
(starting from post #234)

Default mapping so far:

[img]http://img30.**************/img30/3278/mappingv091.jpg[/img]

Last edited by nofish; 10-24-2011 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 01-25-2011, 03:51 PM   #2
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Thanks, Nofish!

I look forward to giving this a try.

My BCR2000 arrived just yesterday, and I'm looking forward to getting it to talk to Reaper a little more coherently than it does out of the box.
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:22 PM   #3
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You're welcome.

If you have any questions, shoot away, I'll try to answer.
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Old 03-02-2011, 02:47 PM   #4
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I'm trying to set up my BCR2000 so it can both control and get MIDI feedback from VST synths. I've followed the instructions for Klinke' MCU plugin as well as the instructions you provided. At this point I'm getting feedback for fader controls. The problem is I don't know how to get into plug-in mode. THe instructions say to hit alt-plugin. I see on your map that the third button from the left on the BCR top row of buttons is marked "plug-ins", but I don't see anything marked "alt". I've tried alt on the computer keyboard. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for your helpful instructions. If it isn't obvious, this is the first time I've tried to set up a controller of this kind (to finally get away from mouse-tweaking).
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Old 03-02-2011, 03:18 PM   #5
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Hi,

there's as option in Klinke's plugin setup to use Alt on the computer keyboard instead of the control surface.
That option must be enabled.

When you've done that and keyboard-Alt + the plugin knob on the BCR still doesn't get you in plugin mode, try holding Alt+double click the plugin button (generally trying to click twice on a button to get a function is sometimes necessary, because I did some mistakes with setting up buttons wrongly as toggle/latch).

Sorry, I haven't set up my BCR atm, but I think it should work like this.
Also, are you using some kind of display emulation (like HuskerView), otherwise it's difficult to say if you entered plugin mode.

edit:
Having looked in Klinke's manual again, I remembered it wrong, there's no specific tickbox for using the keyboard Alt-key, but it's enabled when you use BCF2000 mode (which I recommend).
To get in the Klinke's plugin setup mode (the picture below), doubleclick on the MackieControl entry.

[img]http://img834.**************/img834/2659/mcusetup.png[/img]

Last edited by nofish; 03-02-2011 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:02 AM   #6
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Unfortuanately MCU_FBF.exe file on the stash is not downloadable due to extension (if you uploaded this file, you should reupload in .zip or similar)

And all the links to HuskerView are dead...

Does anyone have either of these MCU transaltor apps? I'm really want to get midi feedback going with a BCR2000 and it seems that i need these to do so...

Cheers

Update: there are mackie monitors in the midi tools by this fine chap http://home.kpn.nl/f2hmjvandenberg281/miditls.html

Last edited by muttlee; 09-11-2011 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:25 PM   #7
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Default small update

I have changed a few things in the mapping.



The second row of buttons is now used for the quickjump feature (='pads') and also for switching action banks.
The 'global view' button is useful when using folder mode (see Klinke's manual)
Also, the bottom eight encoders can now work as sort of a 'poor man's VU/level meters' (instructions included in the download)
Looks like this:
http://s1100.photobucket.com/albums/...evelmeters.mp4

download of sysex file here:
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/10390/Klink...U%20meters.zip


edit June 2017:

The "Marker mode" button is assigned wrongly in this version.
If needed, it should be re-assigned (e.g. with BC Manager).

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...9&postcount=90

Last edited by nofish; 06-09-2017 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:19 PM   #8
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Thanks nofish for posting your work. I've just got hands-on with my BCR2000 and these templates are a great starting point.

I much prefer the BCR to the BCF because, apart from having more controls, the lack of physical faders means absolute quiet and less to break. It's a shame Behringer didn't provide a Mackie Control emulation mode as standard for the BCR.
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoox View Post
It's a shame Behringer didn't provide a Mackie Control emulation mode as standard for the BCR.
Absolutely agree.
btw, if you have questions regarding this setup, post back here, I'll try to help.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:38 PM   #10
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Default Klinke or Similar Bcr2000 for Mac?

I'm trying to get pentameter feedback for the bcr2000 as well. Is Klinke's utility pc only? On Mac the Bcr2000 has a control surface option (Bcf2000 preset 1) that works fine for assigning control to faders, pan, ect, and its learn mode makes assignment very quick and easy.
But still haven't figured out how to get my vsts assigned to the bcr with feedback. Anyone else have any luck with this?
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:01 PM   #11
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Thanks for your work on this, nofish - there doesn't seem to be much love for getting the BCR2000 working with Reaper, so I appreciate your efforts.

But I'm in frustration mode right now, and I don't know where to start. From learning how the BCR2000 works out-of-the-box, to then using Klinke's plugin which wasn't even made for the BCR, to your solution, I'm absolutely lost as to how all this fits together. Yes, I've read the other threads on the subject, and it's all a blur, and most of it references the BCF.

My question at the moment is:

I've finally got your solution working for using it as a control surface. And that's on Preset 2.

Now, I've cleared Preset 3 and I want to use that to control a VSTi synth (a Superwave P8 preset I've imported with BC Manager, but it could be anything). But it only works if I've removed Klinke's plugin and reenabled Enable+Control on the BCR2000 device.

Above in this thread, the FX Plugin interface was mentioned, and I've read the description in Klinke's manual. Is this a workaround for no longer being able to control VSTs directly in Reaper? (Plus, I've tried using the ALT+Plugins with ReaEQ focused, for instance, and that didn't even load the map.)

I'm so confused. I assume there's something fundamental I'm missing here. All I want to do is control Reaper with one preset, and VSTs with some others.

Last edited by droctopu5; 02-09-2013 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:31 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droctopu5 View Post
I've finally got your solution working for using it as a control surface. And that's on Preset 2.

Now, I've cleared Preset 3 and I want to use that to control a VSTi synth (a Superwave P8 preset I've imported with BC Manager, but it could be anything). But it only works if I've removed Klinke's plugin and reenabled Enable+Control on the BCR2000 device.
From what I know, you're right. It's either using it in control surface mode with Klinke's plugin or the Enable+Control way.
For me, it depends, I use it sometimes the first way, sometimes the second (if I need more controllers to map and my main task is controlling VSTs).

However I vaguely remember that someone here on the forum with a BCF got it working for both modes at once, with the help of a virtual MIDI loopback (eg MIDIYoke), iirc.
I've never tried this method myself as I'm fine using one mode at once.
You'd have to search the BCF threads for this.

Quote:
Above in this thread, the FX Plugin interface was mentioned, and I've read the description in Klinke's manual. Is this a workaround for no longer being able to control VSTs directly in Reaper?
Well, in principle you're right. But I wouldn't call it workaround.
It's just the method controlling plugins when you use the BCR in control surface mode which Klinke implemented for his Mackie controll originally.

Quote:
(Plus, I've tried using the ALT+Plugins with ReaEQ focused, for instance, and that didn't even load the map.)
I'll do a screencapture.

Quote:
I'm so confused. I assume there's something fundamental I'm missing here. All I want to do is control Reaper with one preset, and VSTs with some others.
As said above, (from what I know) the options are:

- Use the plugin mode with Klinke's extension (then you'd also use my BCR/Klinke-preset for this)
- Try to get it to run in both modes which I can't help with unfortunately
- Or use the Enable+control way to control Reaper and the plugins (with 'learn'). One drawback with this method is that you don't get parameter feedback back to the BCR which is important to me.

Last edited by nofish; 02-10-2013 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:08 AM   #13
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Here's a video using plugin mode with Klinke's extension, hope it helps.



Forgot to mention, there exists a default map for all plugins (also 3rd party ones) meaning you don't have to go to the map-editor first to control them.
However when you want to define your own maps that's done via the map editor.

Last edited by nofish; 02-10-2013 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:21 AM   #14
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Thanks for the post, I needed this information.
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Old 10-19-2013, 07:39 PM   #15
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Video doesn't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
Here's a video using plugin mode with Klinke's extension, hope it helps.



Forgot to mention, there exists a default map for all plugins (also 3rd party ones) meaning you don't have to go to the map-editor first to control them.
However when you want to define your own maps that's done via the map editor.
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Old 10-20-2013, 05:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by br11 View Post
Video doesn't work
fixed.

Last edited by nofish; 10-20-2013 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:35 AM   #17
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Re getting the BCR to run as both surface and midi controller you need something like MIDI-Ox and a virtual midi cable.
See here http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...82&postcount=5

Steve
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Old 12-17-2014, 02:56 AM   #18
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I setup my BCR2000 thanks to the invaluable work of Kinkle and Nofish.
It works as expected.

Now, since the BCR has so many encoders and we are using only half of them (not counting the brilliant "poor man's VU/level meters" that I'm not using) I'm wonder if and how we could put them in use.
I we could use them in plugin-mode, for example, and map them, there will be less needs of switching page/banks.
Or we can use them in pan mode "inside" the channle strip to control the send level (and switchng to the Send mode only for more in depth settings)
And so on.

Do you think is it possible?
Is it just a matter of setting on the BCR the appropriate CC? Or does it involve writing a whole different control surface plugin?

Stefano
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Old 12-17-2014, 09:01 AM   #19
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Hi,

nice to hear you got this setup working.

You're right, if we leave out the "poor man's VU/level meters" we have left 16 unused encoders (minus the scrub and the master). I also thought how can be made use of these from time to time.

I haven't come up with anything useful yet though.
My thoughts so far were that we're ("forced to") emulating the MCU with its 8 faders and 8 encoders so that's what we can only use also.
In other words, I tend to think we'd need a whole different control surface plugin for this.

But maybe I'm all wrong and if you (or anyone else) comes up with useful ideas how we could incooperate the unused encoders I'm all interested and would do an update of my MCU preset immediately.

I referred to this chart btw. for doing the BCR MCU preset, maybe it helps for getting ideas.

http://home.comcast.net/~robbowers11/MCMap.htm
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:42 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
Hi,
My thoughts so far were that we're ("forced to") emulating the MCU with its 8 faders and 8 encoders so that's what we can only use also.
In other words, I tend to think we'd need a whole different control surface plugin for this.
Yes, this is my "fear" too :-/
If I understand correctly how the whole "control surface" thing works, when we set the BCR as Control Surface all the MIDI from the BCR goes to the Klinkle plugin, where the MIDI CC and notes are mapped to "do something in Reaper".
To be able to use the non used encoders, Would be necessary that anyting "unrecognized" by the Kikle plugin would be "passed on" to Reaper unchanged. This we we could then map some actions/controls.
But this is just pure elecubration, since I haven't checked anything deeper.

Maybe if Kinkle could chime in, he could clarify some points ;-)

Anyway, as soon I have some time, I'll do some test and I'll let you know.

Stefano

p.s.
Thanks for the link to the chart. I had it.
Will be my firt guidance for my future the tests

Last edited by garubi; 12-18-2014 at 02:48 AM.
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:12 AM   #21
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Hi guys, not too sure where to put this but this seemed like the best bet.

Recently got my hands BCR, it's working but I'm looking for the easiest to set it up so I can get feedback from plugins to the BCR itself so it doesnt become a nightmare to work with.

Pretty bewildered as where to start, whether this the Klinke MCU is the easiest way to achieve this or whether this really possible at all. Stayed up most the night reading about this and tbh i still feel like I dont really understand it whatsoever. If anyone has any tips or links to a comprehensive guide I'd be really grateful.

I have remapped my BCR already so I have assigned different CCs to certain encoders, and I know exactly how I want to map them, it's just getting the feedback to the unit from reaper I need to sort.

Cheers
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Old 01-04-2015, 06:11 AM   #22
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Hi,

quick rundown:

There are two possibilities to use a MIDI controller in Reaper:

1. via Preferences -> MIDI devices

With this method you can use Reaper's 'Learn' dialog, but there's unfortunately no feedback back to the MIDI controller (as of yet).

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4388

Btw. that's also what the other thread is about where you posted:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=94384&page=3

2. via Preferences -> Control Surfaces

That's the method described in this thread and this way you get feedback back to the MIDI controller (BCR), also for plugins but the assignments of the encoders is fixed (see post #7).

Hope this helps.
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Old 01-04-2015, 07:16 AM   #23
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Thanks Nofish. Became completely overwhelmed with OSC, BC Manager, OSCii-bot, puredata and everything else. It's really useful to know where we are up to with regards to with this. So there is either ultimate flexibility without feedback or feedback but you loose the ability to define your own parameters.

Do you know whether the ability to do both will be ever on the cards? It seems like such a straight forward thing but I fully appreciate this is never the way in works in the real life, that's why I'm a musician instead of a programmer.

Thanks again for taking time to answer my questions, much obliged.
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Old 01-04-2015, 07:45 AM   #24
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Since you mention it, OSC(ii-bot), Puredata is another way to get MIDI feedback going, but I've never looked into it.
(check forum user 'Banned', he did something like this)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Famousbyfive View Post
So there is either ultimate flexibility without feedback or feedback but you loose the ability to define your own parameters.
Well what plugin parameters concerns we are able to define the parameters we want because with Klinke's plugin comes a handy mapping editor so it actually is quite flexible.



You're right though what the mapping of the BCR encoders concerns, this is fixed with this method.


Quote:
Do you know whether the ability to do both will be ever on the cards? It seems like such a straight forward thing but I fully appreciate this is never the way in works in the real life, that's why I'm a musician instead of a programmer.
Only the Reaper developers know.
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:42 PM   #25
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Not using Reaper much these days so I'm looking for a way to use my BCR with any DAW. Until today I had used it mainly for DJing with Traktor, which is very straightforward because Traktor has a fixed number of parameters, unlike DAWs where things like the mixer have a variable number of faders etc.

That's why dedicated MCU support is provided by DAWs. I'm finding the best and most generic way to get the BCR to cooperate with any DAW is to configure it to impersonate the MCU.

For example, I've programmed an encoder on my BCR to Pitch Bend, Channel 9, and that now controls the master fader in any software that supports MCU protocol. No fancy plugins needed.

But what I ultimately would like to do is have a single BCR2000 that looks like 3 devices in one, allowing me to control 3 separate applications all from one single BCR2000:

● RME TotalMix FX
● DAW as MCU
● Generic CC messages for plugin parameters

AFAIK the only way to achieve this, especially the first two, is to use a MIDI message translator, and looking at the available options, it looks like I'm going to have to write my own.

For example, if I want Encoder 1 to control the master fader in Reaper and Encoder 2 to control the master fader in TotalMix, both using the MCU protocol, then both encoders would need to send Pitch Bend Channel 9, so there would be no way to tell them apart (we can't use channel numbers to differentiate because the MCU protocol itself uses different channel numbers!), so this wouldn't work. Had MIDI implemented channels and "sub-channels" we would have had a chance at a simple solution:

● TotalMix FX listens on any sub-channel on Channel 1
● Reaper listens on any sub-channel on Channel 2
● etc

Unfortunately, this is not the case, so the only solution is to map a different MIDI message (e.g. CC1, CC2) to each encode and then have the translator software/script convert both messages to PitchBend Channel 9 and send them to different virtual MIDI devices (e.g. BCR2000-Reaper, BCR2000-TotalMix).

I look forward to MIDI 2.0, and yet somehow I get the feeling its never going to happen.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:40 AM   #26
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Hello is there a way today, in 2019 (Reaper 5.9) to get midi feedback from reaper to the BCR 2000 with the learn function ? I'm only using the BCR for adjusting plugins parameters
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:08 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fak0u View Post
Hello is there a way today, in 2019 (Reaper 5.9) to get midi feedback from reaper to the BCR 2000 with the learn function ? I'm only using the BCR for adjusting plugins parameters
I've sold my three BCR2000s as controllers and DAWs are a pain in the ass to get to cooperate, but in theory you should be able to configure your BCR2000 to 'look' like or impersonate a Mackie Control Universal, then it should just work.

BTW use BC Manager, not Behringer's editor which is garbage.
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:18 AM   #28
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There's (still) no MIDI feedback when using Reaper's learn function.

As Scoox says your options are configuring the BCR as MCU and use one of the MCU control plugins or e.g. ReaLearn. (Though ReaLearn has been crashing on me sometimes I gotta say.)
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:22 AM   #29
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just discoverd REALEARN https://www.helgoboss.org/projects/r...etting-started
but just looks like it is very buggy, crashed reaper everytime I want to use it with TH-U

Edit : FIX: First insert your plugin, then create the track for realearn and insert it

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Old 11-09-2019, 11:23 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
There's (still) no MIDI feedback when using Reaper's learn function.

As Scoox says your options are configuring the BCR as MCU and use one of the MCU control plugins or e.g. ReaLearn. (Though ReaLearn has been crashing on my sometimes I gotta say.)
I've completely given up on the BCR2000 because 1) Behringer has discontinued it, 2) the buttons kept failing and I got fed up with servicing the device, 3) except Propellerheads, all other DAW manufacturers never bothered to support it properly or at all even though it's a very capable device. I mention this to say that the future doesn't look bright for the BCR, so if you can't get it to work with what tools you have at your disposal right now, it's very unlikely anyone is going to go out of their way to write a plugin to enable compatibility.
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