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Old 06-17-2019, 12:05 AM   #1
lucor
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Default REAPER becomes a laggy mess with not even 100 tracks

I don't know if this is an actual bug, but it's a real problem for me and makes REAPER an absolute pain to work with in bigger projects.

REAPER is by far the snappiest DAW I know, and it's one of the many reasons why I love it so much and have made the switch after many years of using Cubase.
Unfortunately that snappiness quickly disappears after I've added some VSTi's. Usually I'm not even at 100 tracks before it gets really bad: resizing tracks feels like I have 10fps, drawing in CC curves is extremely choppy, etc...
Is this common? Are there any options in the preferences that I can tweak to make things better?

My specs:
- Windows 10
- i7-7820X @3.6GHz
- 128GB RAM
- 1x 4k monitor, 2x 1080p monitors

Thank you!
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Old 06-17-2019, 12:11 AM   #2
EvilDragon
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With 100 tracks, that doesn't sound right. With over 1000 tracks, sure... I wonder if you have a lot of armed tracks, perhaps, or long send chains? Also, which plugins? Do you have some heavy stuff on the master track, like Ozone?
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Old 06-17-2019, 12:30 AM   #3
lucor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
With 100 tracks, that doesn't sound right. With over 1000 tracks, sure... I wonder if you have a lot of armed tracks, perhaps, or long send chains? Also, which plugins? Do you have some heavy stuff on the master track, like Ozone?
I have the "automatic record arm when track selected" option checked by default for every track, I don't know if that makes a difference? So usually only one track is armed at a time.
Nothing is on the master track, I only add stuff there once the project is finished regarding composing, mixing, etc.
Regarding send chains, I don't think they are that long. I attached a screenshot to what is usually the longest chain I have. Kontakt with each mic position routed to its own output -> overall mic folder -> library folder -> Orchestral Section
Is that already too much? And why does that even influence the GUI responsiveness at all?
Attached Images
File Type: png 17-06-_2019_09-28-50.png (43.4 KB, 208 views)
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Old 06-17-2019, 12:46 AM   #4
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Can you try the same track layout just without folders?
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Old 06-17-2019, 01:02 AM   #5
lucor
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I just opened up a problematic project with 138 tracks and 'dissolved' every folder in there, so that no folder track is left at all (is that what you meant?), but I can't spot any difference, still extremely slow and laggy.
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Old 06-17-2019, 01:05 AM   #6
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The kind of lag you describe is not normal. Try reserving one core at least for REAPER in Kontakt preferences?

Also in REAPER preferences, try playing with the buffering settings. Thread priority or anticipative processing. And maybe in FX browser, set Kontakt to Run as... dedicated process

I assume you are using Kontakt, because most of people having CPU problems are using Kontakt with many tracks too.
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Old 06-17-2019, 01:13 AM   #7
lucor
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Ok I think I might have found the problem, which is the 4k monitor?! When I move the project window over to one of my 1080p monitors and draw in CC data in there it's snappy as hell, just like a 1 track project is on the 4k monitor.
Is this normal? Anything that can be done about it?

@heda: Thanks, I'll play around with those settings, though my CPU isn't making any problems I think.
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:06 AM   #8
Ericson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucor View Post
I don't know if this is an actual bug, but it's a real problem for me and makes REAPER an absolute pain to work with in bigger projects.

REAPER is by far the snappiest DAW I know, and it's one of the many reasons why I love it so much and have made the switch after many years of using Cubase.
Unfortunately that snappiness quickly disappears after I've added some VSTi's. Usually I'm not even at 100 tracks before it gets really bad: resizing tracks feels like I have 10fps, drawing in CC curves is extremely choppy, etc...
Is this common? Are there any options in the preferences that I can tweak to make things better?

My specs:
- Windows 10
- i7-7820X @3.6GHz
- 128GB RAM
- 1x 4k monitor, 2x 1080p monitors

Thank you!
I'm experiencing the same problem with my two 4K 60hz monitors. UI becomes laggy after I've inserted a lot of tracks (50+). I see the laggyness especially in the mixer view when moving the faders and also with sezing the track hight.
Switching between screensets is also taking a lot of time (15 seconds, instead of 5)

Please make reaper more 4k ready and implement GPU hardware acceleration!
For now I'll try the new alpha version and post my findings.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:31 AM   #9
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In these instances, how many tracks are on screen at once, in both the cases of using the 4k display and the 1080 displays?
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:08 AM   #10
lucor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
In these instances, how many tracks are on screen at once, in both the cases of using the 4k display and the 1080 displays?
It definitely gets worse the more tracks are visible.

On the 4k monitor:
In the aforementioned project with 138 tracks, lag is the worst with everything on display.
When I only show one single track and hide everything else, things like resizing a TCP are basically just as snappy as in a fresh project with a single track.
When I make a single track visible step-by-step, I notice the first lag with around 20 tracks (at that point it's still pretty minor though). This also seems to be project independent, I start to notice the same lag at 20 tracks in an empty project with 20 empty tracks.

On the 1080p monitors
Here with all 138 tracks visible, resizing a TCP is still very laggy though not as bad as on the 4k display (here it takes around 60 tracks until I notice the first stuttering).

Snappiness in the Midi Editor also seems related to how much midi data is visible in there. I usually like to have all midi data visible at once for orchestration and arranging purposes.
On the 4k, when I hide all the midi data except for the track that I'm working on, drawing CC data is alot snappier, with only some minor stuttering.
On the 1080p display however, I can have all midi data shown in the editor and drawing CC is still perfectly snappy.
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:20 AM   #11
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That's some good additional info!
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:29 AM   #12
Justin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucor View Post
It definitely gets worse the more tracks are visible.

On the 4k monitor:
In the aforementioned project with 138 tracks, lag is the worst with everything on display.
When I only show one single track and hide everything else, things like resizing a TCP are basically just as snappy as in a fresh project with a single track.
When I make a single track visible step-by-step, I notice the first lag with around 20 tracks (at that point it's still pretty minor though). This also seems to be project independent, I start to notice the same lag at 20 tracks in an empty project with 20 empty tracks.

On the 1080p monitors
Here with all 138 tracks visible, resizing a TCP is still very laggy though not as bad as on the 4k display (here it takes around 60 tracks until I notice the first stuttering).

Snappiness in the Midi Editor also seems related to how much midi data is visible in there. I usually like to have all midi data visible at once for orchestration and arranging purposes.
On the 4k, when I hide all the midi data except for the track that I'm working on, drawing CC data is alot snappier, with only some minor stuttering.
On the 1080p display however, I can have all midi data shown in the editor and drawing CC is still perfectly snappy.
Thanks! Would you mind sending one of these projects (with all plug-ins removed, but the real-world MIDI data) to support at cockos dot com? Thanks!
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:16 PM   #13
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I got the project, thank you. Testing on a mid-2012 RMBP in Win10 in unscaled mode, so that's 2880x1800. Everything works really well to be honest. I will try a full 4k display tomorrow. I tested various zoom levels and scrolling in the arrange view (from having as much of the project in-view as possible, to zooming in on various parts), as well as the MIDI editor (opening all project MIDI in the one editor). I penciled some automation in the arrange, and some CCs in the MIDI editor. Everything was pretty fast.

What audio device and samplerate and block size are you using? Does setting Preferences/Audio/"Close audio device when stopped", and having the audio device stopped improve things?

Do you have any control surfaces configured in Preferences/Control Surfaces?

If you install a fresh portable install and load this project, how does it perform?
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