|
|
|
12-01-2010, 11:30 AM
|
#1
|
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,821
|
>> v4: Comping takes
There is a new Comps menu under the main Item menu, and in the media item context menu. If you select some items and choose “ Save as new comp”, the set of active takes in those items are tagged internally with the comp name that you choose. You can save as many different comps as you like, and switch between them. All saved comps for any selected items will be listed under the Comps menu.
There are many new actions for managing comps, including cycling through comps, moving the active comp to the top lane, toggling between two comps (A/B), popping up the comp list menu for the media item under the mouse, and so on.
See also the new take lane alignment features.
Last edited by Ollie; 12-02-2010 at 07:59 PM.
|
|
|
12-01-2010, 12:17 PM
|
#2
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,923
|
this is cool indeed
|
|
|
12-01-2010, 12:57 PM
|
#3
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 105
|
I'm looking forward to playing with this some more, but on first look, when I make a comp and move it to the top, it changes id number. For example, if I record four takes and select the fourth for my comp (labeled "4/4"), when I move the active comp to the top, the content from take 4 goes to the top, but is named "1/4". Previous 1, 2, and 3 takes are now 2, 3, and 4. Shouldn't the take number stay with the original content?
Thanks,
Tom
|
|
|
12-01-2010, 06:24 PM
|
#4
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 871
|
Does anyone else think that being able to control the active take through envelopes would be a cool thing? Perhaps with a small automatic crossfade added at the envelope point.
|
|
|
12-01-2010, 07:35 PM
|
#5
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basel, Switzerland
Posts: 4,715
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by semiquaver
this is cool indeed
|
This is beyond cool!
|
|
|
12-01-2010, 07:37 PM
|
#6
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basel, Switzerland
Posts: 4,715
|
Saving a comp is 'Change media item selection' in the changelog. While that doesn't really qualify as a bug it isn't exactly correct either...
|
|
|
12-01-2010, 09:23 PM
|
#7
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 619
|
forgive the question,
but what is the biggest advantage to comping takes?
is it mainly the comp list for organization?
is it the ability to mark comp takes?
seems like a nice improvement, but i just want to make sure i'm not overlooking the main advantage of this system.
|
|
|
12-01-2010, 10:14 PM
|
#8
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basel, Switzerland
Posts: 4,715
|
For me the main thing about it is that there is finally a container for related audio-snippets. All items a comp consists off act as one.
And this while your take info isn't lost at all.
|
|
|
12-02-2010, 10:09 AM
|
#9
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 209
|
I played around with this feature for a while last night. This is a very cool to have under the hood.
Thanks.
|
|
|
12-02-2010, 01:01 PM
|
#10
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,002
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
There is a new Comps menu under the main Item menu, and in the media item context menu. If you select some items and choose “ Save as new comp”, the set of active takes in those items are tagged internally with the comp name that you choose. You can save as many different comps as you like, and switch between them. All saved comps for any selected items will be listed under the Comps menu.
There are many new actions for managing comps, including cycling through comps, moving the active comp to the top lane, toggling between two comps (A/B), popping up the comp list menu for the media item under the mouse, and so on.
See also the new take lane alignment features.
|
FIXED LINK
__________________
I want to live PEACEFULLY PLEASE WORLD "LEADERS" GET THIS DONE/LET IT BE FOR GOOD AND MAKE HISTORYYYYYYY! Thanks.
|
|
|
12-02-2010, 07:43 PM
|
#11
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 619
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sightlessness
FIXED LINK
|
thanks, i had missed the animated gif the first time i read this thread.
this gives me a better idea of how to use this feature.
|
|
|
12-02-2010, 07:47 PM
|
#12
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
|
This is snazzy.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
|
|
|
12-02-2010, 09:39 PM
|
#13
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,218
|
Especially if you assign double click with modifier to show up the comp menu using the mouse modifier.
You can do the same in alpha3 for takes too.
|
|
|
12-03-2010, 09:24 AM
|
#14
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Athens GA USA
Posts: 256
|
Wow this is great !! Now what else can I think of to bellyache about ?? Just kidding !!! Great work guys....I knew you could do it !!!!
David B
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
There is a new Comps menu under the main Item menu, and in the media item context menu. If you select some items and choose “ Save as new comp”, the set of active takes in those items are tagged internally with the comp name that you choose. You can save as many different comps as you like, and switch between them. All saved comps for any selected items will be listed under the Comps menu.
There are many new actions for managing comps, including cycling through comps, moving the active comp to the top lane, toggling between two comps (A/B), popping up the comp list menu for the media item under the mouse, and so on.
See also the new take lane alignment features.
|
|
|
|
12-04-2010, 07:50 AM
|
#15
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oslo
Posts: 315
|
Hi! Is this supposed to work with MIDI aswell? I get multiple takes and the same comping interface, however selecting take or flipping through them with "T" doesn't seem to make a difference; only the last recorded take is played.
Using this with MIDI would be excellent for me, as I quite often work with MIDI-loops. Thanks!
|
|
|
12-04-2010, 08:23 AM
|
#16
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,218
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by COCPORN
Hi! Is this supposed to work with MIDI aswell? I get multiple takes and the same comping interface, however selecting take or flipping through them with "T" doesn't seem to make a difference; only the last recorded take is played.
Using this with MIDI would be excellent for me, as I quite often work with MIDI-loops. Thanks!
|
It should work the same as it does for audio, not sure why you don't see a difference.
if you right click a meter on your track what have you got midi set to in regards to if it overdubs or creates a new item? It could be that.
|
|
|
12-04-2010, 10:37 AM
|
#17
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oslo
Posts: 315
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers
It should work the same as it does for audio, not sure why you don't see a difference.
if you right click a meter on your track what have you got midi set to in regards to if it overdubs or creates a new item? It could be that.
|
Yes, you're right, it was an operator error. The mute-icon on the clip disappeared when it was split into multiple takes, and that confused me.
Thanks a lot for the help. And; this is pretty awesome for a lot of MIDI editing.
|
|
|
12-05-2010, 02:46 AM
|
#18
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 88
|
Really? So cool! Can't wait to try it when I'm not on a netbook Thanks for the attention to comping!
Will takes still automatically rename/split when recording new items? This seemed to me the biggest weak spot and antithetical to the benefits of Reaper's otherwise non-destructive editing.
|
|
|
12-05-2010, 03:05 AM
|
#19
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 88
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by echoblaster
Will takes still automatically rename/split when recording new items? This seemed to me the biggest weak spot and antithetical to the benefits of Reaper's otherwise non-destructive editing.
|
couldn't wait, installed it and answered the question myself. Too cool!
|
|
|
12-20-2010, 03:04 PM
|
#20
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 105
|
I thought I'd revisit this, since there's one little snag for me in this otherwise cool feature. When moving the active comp to the top, the take numbering does not follow the moved "takes". So if take 3 of 4 is moved to the top as part of this comp action, the item takes rotate accordingly, but are renamed, so that what was "take 3/4" is now "1/4". This is confusing to me; I expect those take numbers to indicate the take id # based on chronological order, not on which is at the top of the display. If this "take x/y" notation is just there to indicate which lane the item is in, well, it works, but I'm not sure how useful that is.
@Schwa : does what I'm saying make sense, or is there some reason that the numbering wouldn't follow the actual content when it is moved to the top?
Thanks,
Tom
|
|
|
12-20-2010, 03:10 PM
|
#21
|
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,687
|
These numbers just denote the amount of takes inside an item, they don't belong to takes. When we see "Take 3/4" it means "there are 4 takes in this item and the 3rd take is active".
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
|
|
|
12-20-2010, 03:38 PM
|
#22
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 105
|
Yes, but see how you said the 3rd *take* is active? What does that mean? The 3rd lane is active, but not necessarily the 3rd take, as "the 3rd take" suggests a particular recorded event that is constant regardless of lane. I don't mean to be pedantic about word choice, but it makes sense to label takes persistently. Seeing merely which lane (x of y) I'm in doesn't seem as useful, and may actually be misleading when labeled as a "take".
I know that I could instead examine the file name for each take and figure which is 3rd, but this can be cumbersome; looking for each "take 3/8" across a multitracked drum kit is much more helpful than sorting through file names.
Thanks,
Tom
|
|
|
12-20-2010, 03:44 PM
|
#23
|
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,687
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by toggle
Yes, but see how you said the 3rd *take* is active? What does that mean? The 3rd lane is active, but not necessarily the 3rd take, as "the 3rd take" suggests a particular recorded event that is constant regardless of lane.
|
Not in REAPER, and that's the problem with most people using takes in it. A take in REAPER is just an item inside an item, that's all. I do agree that most of you guys would love a number attached to them but that's not what that number (x/y) is trying to denote. It'd need a different approach/option.
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
|
|
|
12-20-2010, 04:26 PM
|
#24
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 105
|
Quote:
Not in REAPER, and that's the problem with most people using takes in it. A take in REAPER is just an item inside an item
|
MN,
I know that, and I know you know that. I have fully accepted that takes are just items in items, not consistent as a single entity throughout a track; I don't need take numbering to correspond across different parent items in a track (though it would be nice), etc., etc., but, But!
Quote:
but that's not what that number (x/y) is trying to denote.
|
Unless I'm mistaken, it just denotes "lane number of total lanes", as displayed at a given moment. Lanes are a display abstraction, and that's what this number is dealing with. It's not even denoting a given item within an item--wouldn't you want the item inside the item to be identified consistently? Otherwise, it's like labeling a filing cabinet "drawer 1", "drawer 2", etc.
And I guess I do take issue with using the word "take" for a display convention that can change without regard to the content of the lane. "Take" already has specific, useful meaning in recording, as a "thing" that would be numbered for identification. I mean, we could call these lanes "performance 3/4", "drummer 3/4", or "highland cow 3/4" but we don't, since these words all have meaning in recording already.
Anyway, if the numbers don't follow the content because this can't be done, so be it. But if it can, I don't see a compelling reason why it shouldn't.
Thanks,
Tom
PS: Actually, I think the bigger problem most of us audio knuckleheads have with takes in REAPER is the splitting, which is of course related here. But I've accepted the splits, too!
|
|
|
12-24-2010, 11:05 PM
|
#25
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 532
|
Hey, I just got a chance to experiment with comping... It's neat! But very rough.
One thing that can use fixing: a comp seems to be linked to the item you save it while right-clicking... So I can only "choose active comp..." on the originally saved item. Surely this must be a bug! I should be able to access that take from any item in that comp, isn't that right?
It would be really nice to be able to "see" our comps a little more clearly.
Consider a comp-view... When enabled, it hides all take lanes and replaces them with "comp lanes". This may result in (seemingly) duplicated takes, but really all it does is arrange each comp (visually) to a different lane and improve our ability to distinguish between takes...
In take lanes, it would look like this:
----Item A----Item B----Item C----Item D----Item E----
----take 1----take 1----take 1----take 1----take 1----
----take 2----take 2----take 2----take 2----take 2----
----take 3----take 3----take 3----take 3----take 3----
I've got two comps (which use all 5 items):
1-1-2-3-1
and
3-3-2-1-1
So in comp lanes, it would look like this:
----Item A----Item B----Item C----Item D----Item E----
----take 1----take 1----take 2----take 3----take 1----
----take 3----take 3----take 2----take 1----take 1----
Now that's just an idea and I suspect there's a better way and it's probably too much work to make the 4.0 release and I hope you can see how something like this could be useful.
I'm thinking of comps as a way to arrange for performance. You can use the same batch of takes (variations on themes) in different permutations and then switch between them as easily as we switch between different takes now.
|
|
|
12-24-2010, 11:10 PM
|
#26
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 532
|
What does everyone else use comping for?
I can't imagine being unable to decide between two entirely different organizations of a vocal track, for example. My mind goes to variations for live performance, but I'm positive that isn't the standard reason to use them either...
|
|
|
12-25-2010, 02:01 PM
|
#27
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 88
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Stop Continues
What does everyone else use comping for?
|
Comping is used to take the best parts of each take/performance to comp-ile a "perfect" performance. Lets say a vocalist can't hit a 100% perfect performance all the way through in one shot, the engineer can borrow bits and pieces from other takes to stitch together an entire passage, fix minor errors in pitch or enunciation, etc.
Purists will say it's cheating, but you may be surprised to find out how many big name albums are comped from start to finish.
|
|
|
12-25-2010, 04:31 PM
|
#28
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 354
|
It's also handy when recording yourself - loop, stack up a bunch of takes, poke through the wreckage later.
|
|
|
12-25-2010, 07:39 PM
|
#29
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 532
|
lol! Of course I do that, gents! But if I break a vocal line into four parts and select the take I like best for each word/phrase, I still don't understand what to do with comps, because there's always a "best take", you know?
I guess if multiple people are doing mixes of a given track, comps would be useful to compare. Also, I guess it does mean that I can keep the discarded takes in place and further down the line, if I change my mind about a section, easily change it... Alright, I'm sold.
|
|
|
12-25-2010, 07:57 PM
|
#30
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 2,644
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Stop Continues
lol! Of course I do that, gents! But if I break a vocal line into four parts and select the take I like best for each word/phrase, I still don't understand what to do with comps, because there's always a "best take", you know?
I guess if multiple people are doing mixes of a given track, comps would be useful to compare. Also, I guess it does mean that I can keep the discarded takes in place and further down the line, if I change my mind about a section, easily change it... Alright, I'm sold.
|
Haha, I tend to agree... Why would you make 2 totally different comps to compare and AB... Wouldn't you just pick the best take for each section you split up the first time? Why would you pick the second best take for each section and make a comp when you already know the other comp is better? Heh...
Useful I think for creative purposes if comping together a bunch of different guitar solo takes or something and experimenting, but when it comes to just comping to get the perfect performance in an already established part, I think it's easy enough to get it right the first time :P
Still really great and useful feature, just didn't want Mike to feel totally alienated, haha...
|
|
|
12-25-2010, 10:23 PM
|
#31
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 532
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan
Still really great and useful feature, just didn't want Mike to feel totally alienated, haha...
|
Thanks. I didn't mean to dismiss the feature either, just trying to get a better understanding as I update ReaMenus with all the new 4.0 sweetness.
Back to the strange behavior where "choose active comp for item under mouse..." only lists those comps saved specifically on the item activated... It should list all comps associated with the right-clicked item, shouldn't it?
|
|
|
12-26-2010, 07:20 AM
|
#32
|
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,821
|
Thanks for the reports of bugs and other not ideal behavior, we'll clear them up and continue to work on this feature for sure.
As for the usefulness of comping and A/B ... depending on the situation it might not a question of piecing together the best comp, then the second-best comp, etc. Comps are usually assembled from phrases, and in either a musical or nonmusical context, it might be a question of which phrases work best with which other phrases. In a perfect world the performer gives you full takes that each represents a performance choice -- a harder take, a softer take, etc -- but in reality the full takes might be inconsistent and it's an editing job to assemble a harder take, softer take, etc from comps, and then pick the choice that works best.
|
|
|
12-26-2010, 07:34 AM
|
#33
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 2,644
|
Definitely schwa, very useful when trying to figure out how that part sounds best in the context of everything else, not necessarily so much about picking the "perfect" comp, but experimenting and trying out different variations of a bunch of perfect comps with different feels to see which one works best in the mix.
|
|
|
12-26-2010, 07:42 AM
|
#34
|
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,821
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Stop Continues
a comp seems to be linked to the item you save it while right-clicking... So I can only "choose active comp..." on the originally saved item.
|
Can't reproduce, can you give a specific example? Either when right-clicking or running the action "choose active comp for item under mouse", I can get a list of all comps that the item is a part of.
|
|
|
12-26-2010, 09:27 AM
|
#35
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,203
|
I hope you guys will have mercy because I can't resist to ask: what is a 'comp' and what is 'comping'?
Forget it: I read it ^^^^ above....
|
|
|
12-26-2010, 11:34 AM
|
#36
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 532
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
Can't reproduce, can you give a specific example? Either when right-clicking or running the action "choose active comp for item under mouse", I can get a list of all comps that the item is a part of.
|
I can't reproduce that bug, but I just discovered something even more weird about it...
I had just added the comping actions to the media item menu and made four items with four takes each. I systematically made four comps of all take 1--"1111", 2222, 3333, 4444, and right-clicked "save active comp" action on the first track always. Then I added four more comps, each with one track missing--111x, 22x2, 3x33, x444 on a random (selected) track. Now here's the weird part--
I had added the "choose active comp for item under mouse" action to the menus. And I was right-clicking tracks to use that action. Today I built a demo project to send you and discovered that that action doesn't work from the right-click menu! Yesterday, when I right-clicked the action, the context menu would disappear, but the comp list would be floating in space wherever my last click landed--because of menu nesting, this was most of the time NOT above any item anymore...
It was when using the action this (weird) way that I had the weird behavior (I could only see comps "1111" "2222" "3333" "4444" listed only when I right-clicked on item 1, for instance).
I can't reproduce the bug, but I hope that helps. Thanks!
|
|
|
12-27-2010, 10:51 AM
|
#37
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Atlanta, Geirgia
Posts: 245
|
Awesome!
|
|
|
01-20-2011, 06:14 AM
|
#38
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basel, Switzerland
Posts: 4,715
|
I'm confused - within the last few versions, did anyone manage successfully to use comps?
I can save them, but after that each individual item the comp consists of is still entirely independent from the others. That's not at all how I remember it working. What am I doing wrong? Or is it confirmed that the feature currently is unavailable?
|
|
|
01-20-2011, 01:11 PM
|
#39
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basel, Switzerland
Posts: 4,715
|
Anyone? Is it broken or am I too dumb? I don't want to make a false BR. :-/
|
|
|
01-20-2011, 01:25 PM
|
#40
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,218
|
will try and check when I get a chance but if not at least this can be considered a bump!
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:49 PM.
|