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09-18-2019, 09:32 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 657
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v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019
v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019
+ ARA: do not inform plug-ins that samples are available if the source audio has been deleted or moved
+ ARA: improve loading projects with missing media
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
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09-18-2019, 09:46 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
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It's in I/O dialog, just so everyone knows.
+/- 500 ms might not be enough. Please allow for typing in larger values. Right now if I type in 1000 ms, it is not remembered after reopening the I/O dialog. Or just extent the range of the knob to +/- 2000 ms, I'd say that should be enough. Thanks
Also the knob behaves weirdly. It hides the mouse cursor, but when releasing the mouse the cursor is NOT in the place where it was when clicking on the knob. Very confusing! The cursor should not move after releasing the mouse - there's no point in hiding the mouse cursor then. I see that track pan/vol and track control knobs behave the same... This ain't cool
Last edited by EvilDragon; 09-18-2019 at 10:05 AM.
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09-18-2019, 10:01 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: France
Posts: 919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic
v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
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If there an advantage over using reainsert for managing latency from hardware synth audio return ?
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09-18-2019, 10:03 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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That feature is purely for dealing with virtual instrument latency (i.e. orchestral sample libraries etc.).
See this thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=224593
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09-18-2019, 10:04 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Also the knob behaves weirdly. It hides the mouse cursor, but when releasing the mouse the cursor is NOT in the place where it was when clicking on the knob. Very confusing! The cursor should not move after releasing the mouse - there's no point in hiding the mouse cursor then. I see that track pan/vol and track control knobs behave the same... This ain't cool
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The knobs work as expected here, so looks like the issue isn't universal.
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09-18-2019, 10:06 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Hmmm weird. Is there a setting that influences this?
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09-18-2019, 10:07 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic
v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
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Thank you devs, this is awesome!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Also the knob behaves weirdly. It hides the mouse cursor, but when releasing the mouse the cursor is NOT in the place where it was when clicking on the knob. Very confusing! The cursor should not move after releasing the mouse - there's no point in hiding the mouse cursor then. I see that track pan/vol and track control knobs behave the same... This ain't cool
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FWIW this doesn't happen on my end, cursor stays at the same place. But I agree that 500ms might not be enough, there are some REALLY sluggish instruments out there.
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09-18-2019, 10:08 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 7,268
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I was expecting per note delay parameter... not only track based delay. But this is good news
I will test it asap. I hope it is also in the API
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09-18-2019, 10:09 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Hmmm, per note delay might be very unwieldy in practice... What would be the use case? (It's pretty obvious why track based delay makes sense.)
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09-18-2019, 10:15 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Hmmm, per note delay might be very unwieldy in practice... What would be the use case? (It's pretty obvious why track based delay makes sense.)
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I'm also curious. Maybe for orchestral instruments with keyswitches, where you'd need a different delay for different articulations? But then again this seems like it would be very cumbersome, and should be part of a articulation management system instead (I know Tack had a prototype for this for his Reaticulate script at one point, where you could set a different delay for each articulation).
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09-18-2019, 10:16 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
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Location: Spain
Posts: 7,268
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Because some libraries might have different attack times on lower notes than on high notes. Contrabass for example. Or maybe even FX libraries where any note have complete different sounds. Then it would be very easy to quantize those reverse cymbals in MIDI
Or because it is the REAPER way to go one step ahead when implementing features
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09-18-2019, 10:21 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Hmmm weird. Is there a setting that influences this?
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There's the "Use pen/table-safe mode - do not reposition mouse cursor while adjusting knobs/etc" option under Editing Behavior --> Mouse.
I have it unticked but if ticked it causes the behavior your described (just tried it).
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09-18-2019, 10:24 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic
There's the "Use pen/table-safe mode - do not reposition mouse cursor while adjusting knobs/etc" option under Editing Behavior --> Mouse.
I have it unticked but if ticked it causes the behavior your described (just tried it).
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Ah thanks - that was it!
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09-18-2019, 10:29 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Florence, Italy
Posts: 463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucor
I'm also curious. Maybe for orchestral instruments with keyswitches, where you'd need a different delay for different articulations? But then again this seems like it would be very cumbersome, and should be part of a articulation management system instead (I know Tack had a prototype for this for his Reaticulate script at one point, where you could set a different delay for each articulation).
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For example if you want to stack some spiccato with a pulsing synth you could have some sort of lag between the two.
This function is very very very welcomed, I'm waiting for this and I was really impressed a DAW like Reaper lacked this.
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09-18-2019, 10:40 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 7,268
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The track delay works very well.
I agree on the 500 ms limit. Why no more?
Also please add it to the SetMediaTrackInfo_Value() and GetMediaTrackInfo_Value() and it will be perfect.
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09-18-2019, 10:53 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 657
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The track delay function does not seem to work with sends. That is if you send audio to a track, the playback time offset of the track does not delay its output.
I also agree that the 500ms limit is too low. For reference, Cubase has it as 800ms for MIDI/Instrument and 2000ms for Audio tracks.
In any case, thank you very much for this useful addition!
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09-18-2019, 10:55 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
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Woooohooo.... this is fantastic. Thanks so much Reaper Dev Team!!
Ok... since we have your attention on this... one TEEENSY little Feature request: An ON/OFF button for that control. If there is not enough space, I'd take that over the knob any day. Here's the reason why...
If there is a bypass button, you can do patch changes (or articulation changes) that don't need negative delay, and this will alleviate the need to create a new track for the same patch. It also helps A/B groove. That was actually one positive about the SJFX insert... it could be bypassed with automation.
Just throwing that out there.
Thanks again guys!!
Cheers,
Andrew K
__________________
Cheers... Andrew K
Reaper v6.80+dev0621 - June 21 2023 • Catalina • Mac Mini 2020 6 core i7 • 64GB RAM • OS: Catalina • 4K monitor • RME RayDAT card with Sync Card and extended Light Pipe.
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09-18-2019, 11:08 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,672
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ahhhh, no more rendering my strings out just to get them to hit correctly. thanks!
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09-18-2019, 11:09 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thonex
If there is a bypass button, you can do patch changes (or articulation changes) that don't need negative delay, and this will alleviate the need to create a new track for the same patch. It also helps A/B groove. That was actually one positive about the SJFX insert... it could be bypassed with automation.
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I wonder if that's a can of worms or not, but yeah, if we can automate send parameters, we should be able to at the very least automate toggling track delay on/off.
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09-18-2019, 11:13 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,672
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hmm, this works beautifully with static tempos, but in songs with dynamic tempos, it only works where you set it.
FR for automation of this param, or for a beat-based option
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09-18-2019, 11:15 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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How do you mean "where you set it"?
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09-18-2019, 11:19 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,672
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hm, i actually think i'm off the mark here - let me reconsider for a while. i suspect i was thinking in reverse.
edit, yup, i thought the issue would be conceptually similar to how, in a sidechain compressor, the release param in milliseconds doesn't change in response to tempo changes. in that case, if you're using it as a rhythmic effect, you have to automate it to follow the tempo.
i worried that this feature would have a similar issue, but it does not -- since it's compensating for a static value that likely has no relationship with bpm.
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09-18-2019, 11:22 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
I wonder if that's a can of worms or not, but yeah, if we can automate send parameters, we should be able to at the very least automate toggling track delay on/off.
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Thinking about it, it could be fantastic to be able to automate the delay amount. This could also make it fairly easy for @tack to implement a articulation-dependent delay amount for Reaticulate.
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09-18-2019, 11:35 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic
v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
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This is fantastic. Can we please please please offer an option to delay in samples? I'd like to be a little more accurate especially with drums. Could be a toggle button in the I/O menu or global preference.
Either way thank you very much!!!!
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09-18-2019, 11:40 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,218
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track delay is much appreciated thank you!
And being able to delay in samples as mentioned above would be great too!
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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09-18-2019, 12:01 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
I wonder if that's a can of worms or not, but yeah, if we can automate send parameters, we should be able to at the very least automate toggling track delay on/off.
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Looking at where it's located (in the I/O), I think you are right. Anyway... sometimes it's worth it to ask. I've written enough scripts to know that sometimes you get lucky and there are side-benefits that work
__________________
Cheers... Andrew K
Reaper v6.80+dev0621 - June 21 2023 • Catalina • Mac Mini 2020 6 core i7 • 64GB RAM • OS: Catalina • 4K monitor • RME RayDAT card with Sync Card and extended Light Pipe.
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09-18-2019, 12:03 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucor
Thinking about it, it could be fantastic to be able to automate the delay amount. This could also make it fairly easy for @tack to implement a articulation-dependent delay amount for Reaticulate.
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Agreed, but considering where it's located, I'm not sure it would be automatable. But hey.... Those guys have surprised us before
__________________
Cheers... Andrew K
Reaper v6.80+dev0621 - June 21 2023 • Catalina • Mac Mini 2020 6 core i7 • 64GB RAM • OS: Catalina • 4K monitor • RME RayDAT card with Sync Card and extended Light Pipe.
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09-18-2019, 12:12 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: France
Posts: 919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
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I made a test and it can be used to offset the audio coming from the external synths.
Track 1 with midi clip delayed by -40ms send to hardware synth
Track 2 receive the audio from the hardware synth through the audio interface
result : track 2 is also offset and audio interface delay is compensated.
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09-18-2019, 12:17 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucor
Thinking about it, it could be fantastic to be able to automate the delay amount. This could also make it fairly easy for @tack to implement a articulation-dependent delay amount for Reaticulate.
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If track delay is accessible via API then tack, heda and others could send a specific delay amount when switching articulations, yes? Might be a little easier to manage that then making the track delay amount automatable.
EDIT: Also, holy crap balls. Thank you so much!!
Last edited by Klangfarben; 09-18-2019 at 12:29 PM.
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09-18-2019, 12:29 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben
If track delay is accessible via API then tack, heda and others could send a specific delay amount when switching articulations, yes? Might be a little easier to manage that then making the track delay amount automatable.
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+1000
API integration would be HUGE!!... and a natural next step.
__________________
Cheers... Andrew K
Reaper v6.80+dev0621 - June 21 2023 • Catalina • Mac Mini 2020 6 core i7 • 64GB RAM • OS: Catalina • 4K monitor • RME RayDAT card with Sync Card and extended Light Pipe.
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09-18-2019, 12:36 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Also it should delay sends from the track. Unless that's a huge problem?
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09-18-2019, 12:51 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda
I was expecting per note delay parameter... not only track based delay. But this is good news
I will test it asap. I hope it is also in the API
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda
Because some libraries might have different attack times on lower notes than on high notes. Contrabass for example. Or maybe even FX libraries where any note have complete different sounds. Then it would be very easy to quantize those reverse cymbals in MIDI
Or because it is the REAPER way to go one step ahead when implementing features
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I'm certainly not against this and very much see the use case. Perhaps for this specific use case it could be done with a text file for the instrument similar to note names?
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09-18-2019, 01:42 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 27
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+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
[/QUOTE]
Devs please, add option to switch between miliseconds, samples and frames.
Thank you!
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09-18-2019, 01:58 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
It's in I/O dialog, just so everyone knows.
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Hoping for a video by Kenny
-Michael
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09-18-2019, 02:17 PM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
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This is huge, thank you devs!
It got me thinking if the delay knob could also be somewhere more accessible (in addition to the I/O window). Maybe straight on the MCP for those quick fine tunings?
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09-18-2019, 02:55 PM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben
If track delay is accessible via API then tack, heda and others could send a specific delay amount when switching articulations, yes? Might be a little easier to manage that then making the track delay amount automatable.
EDIT: Also, holy crap balls. Thank you so much!!
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True, that should be good enough and sounds much easier to implement for the devs.
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09-18-2019, 03:31 PM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucor
This could also make it fairly easy for @tack to implement a articulation-dependent delay amount for Reaticulate.
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Yep and that's been on my to-do list for a while. I built a PoC which was finicky and I wasn't looking forward to a real implementation. This new feature will be a great help. We can set a fixed negative track offset and then Reaticulate can delay notes according to the current articulation.
It doesn't need to be automatable as such, but API support for setting the track offset definitely needed.
Great addition!
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09-18-2019, 03:49 PM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic
v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
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Ooooyeeep, this is a big step ahead! Thank you Devs!
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09-18-2019, 04:32 PM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puddi
This is huge, thank you devs!
It got me thinking if the delay knob could also be somewhere more accessible (in addition to the I/O window). Maybe straight on the MCP for those quick fine tunings?
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I agree - a delay readout in digits printed on mixer track panels would be lovely
And a way of bypassing via a modified click on them
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09-18-2019, 05:05 PM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyrex
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
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Devs please, add option to switch between miliseconds, samples and frames.
Thank you![/QUOTE]
+1.
Agreed. I'm just so happy that they even included... i'm afraid to ask for more features... as if it would make me sound ungrateful
__________________
Cheers... Andrew K
Reaper v6.80+dev0621 - June 21 2023 • Catalina • Mac Mini 2020 6 core i7 • 64GB RAM • OS: Catalina • 4K monitor • RME RayDAT card with Sync Card and extended Light Pipe.
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