Old 09-20-2019, 08:09 AM   #1
Edgemeal
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Default v5.983+dev0920a - September 20 2019

v5.983+dev0920a - September 20 2019
# Track playback offset: fix UI glitch in I/O dialog

v5.983+dev0920 - September 20 2019
+ API: Windows WM_COPYDATA supports filenames with # character and prefix [t=225196]
# MIDI editor: fix CC envelope drawing of partial curves
# MIDI editor: fix restoring CC envelope interpolation ppq after loading project or undo
# MIDI: preserve CC curve shapes if possible when gluing
# Track playback offset: allow typing in values up to 1000 ms
# Track playback offset: send MIDI note-offs when changing offset time
# Track playback offset: support UI in ms or samples
# Track playback offset: support bypassing offset

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Quote:
+ API: Windows WM_COPYDATA supports filenames with # character and prefix
Thanks!

Awesome, it sets project as modified now too! Thank You!

Last edited by Edgemeal; 09-20-2019 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:23 AM   #2
musicbynumbers
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# Track playback offset:

Thanks devs.

It seems to be a bit broken though (when it wasn't in the previous 918 build) as the text is black on a black background now so can't see anything

This is with the White Tie reaper 6 theme though so maybe that needs updating for this to be visible (or I can change a text colour somewhere if you know which one it is?)

EDIT: actually.. I can't seem to edit the number at all so it might actually just be broken
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:38 AM   #3
Edgemeal
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Drawing issue here, Looks like the checkbox is covering the dial control & radio buttons ..

FIXED in +dev0920a



Win10 x64

Last edited by Edgemeal; 09-20-2019 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Fixed in +dev0920a
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:10 AM   #4
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Regarding the missing of negatively delayed notes upon the start of playback... hopefully this will help. This is the way Cubase/Nuendo behaves... although not sure how they implement it.

Ok... so, although I do a lot of programming in KSP for Native Instruments, I'm not sure how DAWs calculate Note_On commands during playback... but please indulge me for this explanation/discussion.



So we have a few variables:
Play_Cursor_START_Pos: the position of where the playback cursor STARTS in the timeline
Note_Pos: where the MIDI note is located on the timeline
MIDI_Delay: the positive of negative value in ms to be applied as an offset to the Note_Pos
Note_On: where the MIDI note is triggered on the timeline based on the above criteria.

So, in this example let's use a MIDI delay of -300ms (negative 300ms).

Simple boolean example of the logic... not real code!!:

Code:
Note_On = Note_Pos + MIDI_Delay -- in this case it's negative 300ms
if Note_On < Play_Cursor_START_Pos then
              Note_On = Play_Cur_START_Pos
end
So, this isn't a prefect solution, but it stops the MIDI from being omitted during playback when the Play_Start falls on the downbeat of a MIDI note. And I think this is the way Cubase/Nuendo behaves. It also avoids having to rewind 300ms (an odd meter depending on tempo) thereby avoiding triggering other tracks that have no negative delay upon playback.

During MIDI recording and playback, this is a compromise MIDI people have been living with for years (decades?). For final mixdown, MIDI guys know to start a measure before MIDI.

Is this helpful at all?
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Last edited by Thonex; 09-20-2019 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:16 AM   #5
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In terms of midi chasing, I think we should discuss available options instead of just leaving this on Justin and Schwa to figure out.

Here's the couple options that have been brought up so far.

1) A silent pre-roll so that all events at the playhead are played regardless of the delay. The pros of this are it would work for both audio and midi and that there would be no timing issues. Cons of this are it would seem to the user as if there is a slight delay before playing starts, similar to a high PDC setting. The higher the longest negative delay amount, the higher the delay before playback starts. It would also need to consider the playhead the actual play start so that automation or retrospective midi data would not be written before the playhead. It also might be best if the playhead didn't visually move during the pre-roll so as to not cause confusion.

2) Always play midi events at the playhead without negative delay - aka don't engage negative delay until the size of the negative delay has elapsed. So if the track delay was -100ms, no delay would occur until 100ms had passed. Pros of this are midi events at the playhead would always be caught and that there would be no delay between pressing play and when playback actually starts. Cons of this are that depending on the size of the negative delay, timing of events would be affected. Also, this would not work for audio items, so audio items would most likely need to be exempted from starting exactly at the playhead and instead start at the delayed offset.

In terms of what most of us are using negative midi offset for, it's mostly for longer articulations. Long strings, choir, etc. that speak late. So, the timing issues caused by the 2nd option I don't think would necessarily be a large issue or showstopper. At least in my case, negative midi delay would rarely be used for short articulations. Especially as short articulations can sometimes be fixed by changing the sample start (although there are time this is not possible depending on how complex the sample programming is). So it's mostly long articulations that I'm worried about in which case timing between the first couple events (first one not offset, second one offset) is not going to be critical.

Obviously there are lot of DAWs that have already sorted this. Most of them as far as I can tell. Of the ones I've used, Cubase/Nuendo, Logic, Pro Tools, Digital Performer and Ableton Live. Not sure about Bitwig or Presonus Studio One. If anyone has ideas on how any of these DAWs are dealing with it, please chime in. Or if you have additional solutions other than the two listed above (or ways the above two could work better).

Another issue to consider is Reaper's current PDC implementation and how it affects those two options. Right now afaik, Reaper is rounding up the PDC of a single plugin to the amount of the sample buffer, so if you have a lot of plugins on a virtual instrument or a high sample buffer how does that affect the above, especially the delay before playback with option 1 which could become very problematic.
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post

1) A silent pre-roll ....
Speaking of pre-roll....

Why is there no option to record MIDI on pre-roll? There is for an audio option for that in the record preferences... but not for MIDI. Is there a technical reason for that?
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
Drawing issue here, Looks like the checkbox is covering the dial control & radio buttons ..



Win10 x64
I believe we will need to enlarge the Routing window, especially for people like me who work translating.

Thanks!!
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Old 09-20-2019, 01:18 PM   #8
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Default Routing window

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
Drawing issue here, Looks like the checkbox is covering the dial control & radio buttons ..

FIXED in +dev0920a



Win10 x64
Hi, Edgemeal

Moving the checkbox to the left, I think I'll have more
space to translate. Possible? See the pics

Thanks!
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Last edited by Edison; 12-06-2019 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 09-20-2019, 01:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edison View Post
Hi, Edgemeal

Moving the checkbox to the left, I think I'll have more
space to translate. Possible? See the pics

Thanks!
Yes - perhaps another possibility would be a shorter
descriptor:

Plaback time offset --> Track delay --> Delay

It all expresses the same.
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Old 09-23-2019, 07:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enroe View Post
Yes - perhaps another possibility would be a shorter
descriptor:

Plaback time offset --> Track delay --> Delay

It all expresses the same.
Hi, enroe

Do you think it would look good too as described below?
Time: delay/forward

PS: Is something wrong with this string below?
45FD9E199D6417A2=Set track playback offset - (does not translate)

Thanks!
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:24 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
It seems to be a bit broken though (when it wasn't in the previous 918 build) as the text is black on a black background now so can't see anything
Confirmed. This wasn't happening in the previous build.




dev0920a?
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:40 AM   #12
srdmusic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
v5.983+dev0920 - September 20 2019

# Track playback offset: support UI in ms or samples
Thank thank thank you devs!!!! This is truly brilliant!
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Old 09-20-2019, 01:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
v5.983+dev0920a - September 20 2019
# Track playback offset: allow typing in values up to 1000 ms
actually allows to type any value and really delays the track that value, the knob up to +-500
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Old 09-21-2019, 02:38 PM   #14
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bug:
when creating new tracks the automatic arm record is on even when it is not ticked.

Record arm is not ticked.
quick fix please

thanks

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