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Old 09-05-2021, 11:40 AM   #41
Soli Deo Gloria
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I've experienced a make or break difference with rather big projects (40+ instances of Synth1, for example). Or with stacked heavy Kontakt libraries (Cinesamples et al). There, the difference in performance is crucial, you can be sure...
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Old 09-05-2021, 12:59 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
I've experienced a make or break difference with rather big projects (40+ instances of Synth1, for example). Or with stacked heavy Kontakt libraries (Cinesamples et al). There, the difference in performance is crucial, you can be sure...
Fair enough! I'm definitely not one to be using 40+ instances of a WinVST synth in a single project though I'm a single synth, single comp/eq/reverb/limiter type.

FYI, I'm sure you've seen that there's now a Realimit which can also be used at rendering time...
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Old 09-05-2021, 01:38 PM   #43
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Well, I only dare to do such things with Synth1, which is an instrument I couldn´t live without in Linux. Apart from its seemingly endless resources in terms of community presets, it always amazes me how well it performs in a bridged situation (and Yabridge is also crucial in this regard).


And yes, regarding ReaLimit, I have just tested it and it seems great! A wonderful addition to our toolbox, for sure...


By the way, thanks for this thread, really. I had created a thread with similar intentions but this one is much better laid out, I think. One question : have you seen a perceivable difference with all of the tweaks? I remember Robbert (from Yabridge) telling me that only a few make a real difference (and I can say that they really did here), while others don't seem to add anything really useful to the performance rate, or at least only in some specific scenarios. Once, when I started out with Manjaro, I even tried to get all of the realtimeconfigquickscan items approved, and I ended up with a worse performance than I had with the basic tweaks. What has been your experience in this regard?

In my case, I have seen a dramatic improvement with these :

- The Fsync thing (via WineTKG, a DRAMATIC improvement with Kontakt and heavy things)
- The Realtime Privileges
- The Performance mode in all the CPU cores (this one is really HUGE, too), which I manage with Cpupower-gui.


I haven't reconsidered various of the additional tweaks you include in the list (which I had already tried out, mostly in various Ubuntu distros I used before without ever getting a really good performance), mainly because I'm doing great now with Manjaro, but any insight regarding these things is always welcome, of course!
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Old 09-05-2021, 02:07 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
I see now that the Add/Remove Software offers me an update of the 5.10 series, not the 5.14 one.
If you're using Manjaro, don't use add/remove software for adding/removing kernels. Use "Manjaro Settings Manager" specifically; click on the "kernels" icon.
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Old 09-05-2021, 03:08 PM   #45
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Good tip, and thanks again!
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Old 09-05-2021, 03:46 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
By the way, thanks for this thread, really. I had created a thread with similar intentions but this one is much better laid out, I think. One question : have you seen a perceivable difference with all of the tweaks? I remember Robbert (from Yabridge) telling me that only a few make a real difference (and I can say that they really did here), while others don't seem to add anything really useful to the performance rate, or at least only in some specific scenarios. Once, when I started out with Manjaro, I even tried to get all of the realtimeconfigquickscan items approved, and I ended up with a worse performance than I had with the basic tweaks. What has been your experience in this regard?

In my case, I have seen a dramatic improvement with these :

- The Fsync thing (via WineTKG, a DRAMATIC improvement with Kontakt and heavy things)
- The Realtime Privileges
- The Performance mode in all the CPU cores (this one is really HUGE, too), which I manage with Cpupower-gui.

I haven't reconsidered various of the additional tweaks you include in the list (which I had already tried out, mostly in various Ubuntu distros I used before without ever getting a really good performance), mainly because I'm doing great now with Manjaro, but any insight regarding these things is always welcome, of course!
Maybe the "lesser" steps are somewhat hardware dependent? I have two machines that suffer no ill effects for completely satisfying realtimeconfigquickscan. CPU performance and realtime privileges along with threadirqs flag with default Manjaro kernel or an actual realtime kernel clearly make the most difference. But actually the only other one left to satisfy the script is probably swappiness... Certainly wine-tkg-git + fsync are optional in my case. And TBH, even setting CPU to performance is often unnecessary given the typical sizes of my projects. My aim, I suppose, is to document every single possible tweak that helps get the most out of aging hardware. I've always been one to tweak as much as possible as I used to do on Windows via various guides ranging from Focusrite's easy-peasy guide to Merging's in-depth, and very serious, tweak-a-thon. Hopefully my Manjaro guide fits somewhere in the middle of those two extremes

Out of interest, which steps give you worse performance?
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Old 09-06-2021, 11:30 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by BethHarmon View Post
Maybe the "lesser" steps are somewhat hardware dependent?
It could be, or maybe it depends on the usage in each specific scenario. I tried them out, really, before getting the right tweaks with Robbert's help.

In any case, I'll try to find some time at any moment to do a Clonezilla backup of my main machine and implement the other tweaks to see if it does the same in my setup. Regarding the worse ones, I couldn't identify the culprit with the additional tweaks, but in a sampler scenario I can confidently tell you that if I don´t set all the cores to their maximum by running a cpupower-gui profile with a script, for example, I am noticeably more prone to get hiccups even when I play a dense piano part with something like Piano In 162 in Linuxsampler.

Synth projects, on the other hand (even with bridged ones like Synth 1), don ´t tend to generate much problems in my case. The real bottleneck has been up to now the sampler scenario, and specifically a multi-threaded one like Kontakt. With it, all the difficulties arise...
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Old 09-08-2021, 12:20 AM   #48
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In any case, I'll try to find some time at any moment to do a Clonezilla backup of my main machine and implement the other tweaks to see if it does the same in my setup.
Great, let me know! I'll be very interested to hear the results.
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Old 09-08-2021, 12:44 PM   #49
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Another note about kernel 5.14:

Some people with Behringer UMC models are currently having issues. I've noticed this in a thread on this forum and also on the Yabridge discord. I'm not sure how to file an issue about this in the Manjaro kernel since I don't know exactly what the issue is on a technical level (where to file the issue, for instance) or if it's something in ALSA. (Not that I have a gitlab account to file such an issue with the kernel, but I'd create one to file an issue if I knew how to be of use.)

Reverting to kernel 5.13 resolved this issue for these people, anyway.
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Old 09-08-2021, 01:05 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
Another note about kernel 5.14:

Some people with Behringer UMC models are currently having issues.
I'm not seeing any problems at all here with 5.14 and UMC1820 on Manjaro.

Worked for hours on a new project over the last three days too, so it has had a workout.
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Old 09-08-2021, 02:23 PM   #51
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Same here. No problems on a 404HD and UMC1820...
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Old 09-08-2021, 02:42 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by BethHarmon View Post
Same here. No problems on a 404HD and UMC1820...
Tobbe was having issues with a UMC22, which uses a Texas Instruments stereo converter chip which might be the difference.
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Old 09-19-2021, 05:08 AM   #53
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I'm not sure how to implement this step here:

Set governor to "performance"

i. Temporary:

sudo cpupower frequency-set -g performance

ii. Permanent:

Add cpufreq.default_governor=performance as a kernel parameter:

sudo nano /etc/default/grub

LIne should now read: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="cpufreq.default_governor=perfo rmance threadirqs"

sudo update-grub


For temporary no problem but to set permanently, what are the exact steps:

Is there a step here:
Add cpufreq.default_governor=performance as a kernel parameter
Before entering nano here sudo nano /etc/default/grub ?
And how is that done ?
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Old 09-19-2021, 05:12 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post

3) for USB audio devices, disable USB_autosuspend so they don't glitch out when using ALSA
How do you do this ?
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Old 09-19-2021, 07:15 AM   #55
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I use TLP and its front-end TLP UI for that.

As for CPU frequency, I either also use that, or a utility that allows me to switch governors when I want: cpupower-gui.

I don't do command-line stuff and manually editing conf files if I can avoid it.
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Old 09-19-2021, 10:49 AM   #56
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I use TLP and its front-end TLP UI for that.

As for CPU frequency, I either also use that, or a utility that allows me to switch governors when I want: cpupower-gui.

I don't do command-line stuff and manually editing conf files if I can avoid it.
Ok thank you. My Manjaro ride will be short lived I'm afraid it's crash festival over here on and old laptop and my main computer hates Manjaro. It seems a new AMD build is in order but a little overkill for my situation.
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Old 09-19-2021, 11:08 AM   #57
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Weird. Did you choose the XFCE version? I assume that would work well on older hardware. I use XFCE even on newer computers since it's the fastest in terms of responsiveness.

I wouldn't expect any other distro using XFCE to perform better on your computer, for that matter. Manjaro isn't somehow a "more demanding" distro (at least when compared to most common distros).

Last edited by JamesPeters; 09-19-2021 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 09-19-2021, 11:25 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Pinknoise View Post
I'm not sure how to implement this step here:

Set governor to "performance"

i. Temporary:

sudo cpupower frequency-set -g performance

ii. Permanent:

Add cpufreq.default_governor=performance as a kernel parameter:

sudo nano /etc/default/grub

LIne should now read: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="cpufreq.default_governor=perfo rmance threadirqs"

sudo update-grub


For temporary no problem but to set permanently, what are the exact steps:

Is there a step here:
Add cpufreq.default_governor=performance as a kernel parameter
Before entering nano here sudo nano /etc/default/grub ?
And how is that done ?
sudo nano /etc/default/grub

Add "cpufreq.default_governor=performance" to the line that starts "GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="

Including threadirqs, the whole line should read:

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="cpufreq.default_governor=perfo rmance threadirqs"

then,

sudo update-grub

...and...you're done
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Old 09-19-2021, 12:05 PM   #59
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Weird. Did you choose the XFCE version? I assume that would work well on older hardware. I use XFCE even on newer computers since it's the fastest in terms of responsiveness.

I wouldn't expect any other distro using XFCE to perform better on your computer, for that matter. Manjaro isn't somehow a "more demanding" distro (at least when compared to most common distros).
I tried both , xfce is definetly better for the old laptop. I think it is more audio related than Manjaro itself why it is not working well.

I will try a Linux plugin only install next time.
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Old 09-19-2021, 12:05 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BethHarmon View Post
sudo nano /etc/default/grub

Add "cpufreq.default_governor=performance" to the line that starts "GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="

Including threadirqs, the whole line should read:

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="cpufreq.default_governor=perfo rmance threadirqs"

then,

sudo update-grub

...and...you're done
Thank you it makes more sense to me now.
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Old 09-19-2021, 12:28 PM   #61
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If your computer worked fine with Manjaro and Reaper for Linux (with Linux VST), but for some reason didn't work well when using Windows VST, that's not related to Manjaro at all (nor "audio related" in terms of your audio device configuration). Don't change distros for that reason, since it would just be a waste of your time. In that case, your issue is with one of these things:

-The overall realtime configuration (important for how Reaper talks to Yabridge and Yabridge talks to Wine)

-Your Yabridge configuration/options

-Your Wine version and any configuration it may require

-Specific Windows VST that for some reason don't work well with Wine
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Old 09-19-2021, 07:32 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
If your computer worked fine with Manjaro and Reaper for Linux (with Linux VST), but for some reason didn't work well when using Windows VST, that's not related to Manjaro at all (nor "audio related" in terms of your audio device configuration). Don't change distros for that reason, since it would just be a waste of your time. In that case, your issue is with one of these things:

-The overall realtime configuration (important for how Reaper talks to Yabridge and Yabridge talks to Wine)

-Your Yabridge configuration/options

-Your Wine version and any configuration it may require

-Specific Windows VST that for some reason don't work well with Wine
I completely reinstalled and tried again with MXLinux. It's better this time with liquorix kernel. I have to carefully select my plugins and even what I do with them. MXXX is a tough cookie to takle, Msoundfactory is close to a no go, some presets crashes Reaper. ĸontakt is more stable for instruments.

I will probably investigate those avenue down the road thanks for the suggestions. Using Yabridge I'm pretty much stuck with either 6.4 or 6.14 I don't know where you guys found 6.17 probably a git somewhere...
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Old 12-17-2021, 03:16 PM   #63
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How is this tread not pinned?
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Old 12-18-2021, 05:13 AM   #64
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How is this tread not pinned?
+1

Without this guide I wouldn't have switched to Manjaro, which suits me slightly better than AVL at this point.

Without AVL I may never have switched to Linux.
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Old 12-19-2021, 04:00 AM   #65
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+1

Without this guide I wouldn't have switched to Manjaro, which suits me slightly better than AVL at this point.

Without AVL I may never have switched to Linux.
That's very kind of you. Yeah, it would be nice if we could make this sticky!
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Old 12-24-2021, 01:18 PM   #66
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I agree with Mike that while having that info all in one place (and updated) is good, most of these tweaks probably aren't necessary for most people. Here are a few which I found important for low-latency audio in Reaper (or other DAW), probably for anyone:

3) for USB audio devices, disable USB_autosuspend so they don't glitch out when using ALSA
It seems that bug was fixed in the 21.2.0 Qonos version
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Old 04-01-2022, 04:45 AM   #67
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Beth, it took quite some time, but I tried -again- the points in your guide that I hadn't enabled in my setup. I did it in an old notebook that I use for playing live in my job as a music teacher, and the differing points were mainly the swappiness and the threadirqs/udev-ritrq thing. After that, all I can say is that performance got noticeably worse than with just these points :


https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=252092


I had already tried those things -before you created your guide - in my main machine, testing them with a 40+ MIDI tracks project, and the results were the same : there are quite some seemingly harmful points in most pro audio guides for Linux in the web. The points in my own guide were mostly indicated by Robbert, from Yabridge, at a time when I was working with the Ubuntus and I couldn´t get a reasonable MIDI performance with Linux (ca. January 2020). It is worth noticing that he was very clear at the time regarding the importance of focusing only in the absolutely necessary tweaks, at the risk of ending up wrecking the system's performance, which is what has happened to me every time I did all the usual audio recipes for Linux. As I said before, specially with sample-based instruments, Fsync seems to be a must, and there are only a handful of things that make a real difference (the CPU governor thing being one of the most important, too).

This time, I played as I usually do with the notebook using a rather simple project with Sfizz loaded with a custom 16-bit version of Piano In 162. I played with a great deal of sustain pedal, and glitches appeared very quickly. I reverted the changes since I had to play at the school that afternoon, and everything went back to normal, which is even better than what I used to experience with Win 7 in this old notebook.

I frankly don't understand what is the purpose of realtimeconfigquickscan if, when I satisfy all its requirements, performance is much worse (!!!).

I would suggest the following : if you do experience a noticeable improvement with the threadirqs/udev-rtirq and the swappiness thing, I would put some cautionary advice on those points for all intensive MIDI users. Besides, the Fsync (via Wine-TKG), the CPU governor tweak and the audio group/realtime privileges should be, in my experience, emphasized as foundational tweaks for all MIDI/sample based things.

Since your guide is, for my taste, nicer than mine, it would be good to cover all use-cases. Evidently, audio-based workflows have different needs, but sampler uses really make some heavy and specific demands. If you overdo tweaks, it seems to wreck things more than anything.

If you allow me, I'll include your procedure to set the CPU governor speed permanently in my own guide (with a quotation from yours), just because it's a much better and straightforward recipe...

Last edited by Soli Deo Gloria; 04-01-2022 at 05:05 AM.
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Old 04-01-2022, 07:01 AM   #68
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If you allow me, I'll include your procedure to set the CPU governor speed permanently in my own guide (with a quotation from yours), just because it's a much better and straightforward recipe...
Thanks for the detailed response. I'm happy for you to quote whatever you like and even suggest changes via a pull request on Github

I'm in the middle of getting a really cool classical editing workflow polished for other REAPER users but I will at some point revise the list if you don't get there first. For one, I know the realtimeconfigquickscan repo has moved and changed names in the process.
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Old 04-01-2022, 10:28 AM   #69
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I'm glad for threads like this.

I have noticed that (in more than a few cases) my Yabridged VST's work a lot better than my Linux VST3i .so binaries. Any Idea why that could be? I've followed all these optimization guides and the Linux plugins perform really badly.

Manjaro, latest kernel, KDE
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Old 04-07-2022, 02:55 AM   #70
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This was very helpful. Just wanted to add that this guy wrote a pretty good and concise how-to for getting yabridge set up

And if you have trouble getting some win plugins to work in wine then try downgrading:
Code:
sudo DOWNGRADE_FROM_ALA=1 downgrade wine-staging
I had to go from 7.5 to 7.0 to get some Native Instruments plugins to work.
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Old 04-07-2022, 05:39 AM   #71
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And if you have trouble getting some win plugins to work in wine then try downgrading:
Code:
sudo DOWNGRADE_FROM_ALA=1 downgrade wine-staging
I had to go from 7.5 to 7.0 to get some Native Instruments plugins to work.
Yep, that's already included in my step 11
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Old 04-08-2022, 02:48 PM   #72
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Just in case there are people who normally just stick to the Linux sub-forum, here are my classical editing tools that work perfectly on Linux: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=265145

It's a PDF guide plus some ReaPack scripts, key map (including custom actions) that will give you solid, adaptable S-D editing tools depending on how you like to work, along with a visual two-lane crossfade mode akin to Sequoia or Pyramix that allows for very precise editing and aligning of transients.

While I'm probably not done in terms of additions and tweaking, I definitely consider Linux a viable platform for serious professional editing now all for the cost of a $60 or $225 REAPER license

Last edited by chmaha; 04-08-2022 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 04-09-2022, 08:34 AM   #73
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Thanks for the detailed response. I'm happy for you to quote whatever you like and even suggest changes via a pull request on Github

I will, at any moment... Specifically, what I said in my last post about dividing the mandatory, foundational points for heavy Vsti users from the "extra" things that could add some performance gain in certain scenarios but - as I've experienced more than once - can be harmful when you have lots of instances of Kontakt, for example.


Quote:
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I'm in the middle of getting a really cool classical editing workflow polished for other REAPER users but I will at some point revise the list if you don't get there first. For one, I know the realtimeconfigquickscan repo has moved and changed names in the process.

Not my use-case, but congratulations regarding the classical editing stuff... I'm more into classical listening/studying/piano playing than editing, but it's good to have those tools publicly available. Regarding realtimeconfigquickscan, I sincerely cannot comprehend it at all. When I accomplish all of its goals, my system runs noticeably worse (!!). It's developed, evidently, for other uses... Sampler users should stay away from it, in my opinion.
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Old 04-09-2022, 11:56 AM   #74
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I will, at any moment... Specifically, what I said in my last post about dividing the mandatory, foundational points for heavy Vsti users from the "extra" things that could add some performance gain in certain scenarios but - as I've experienced more than once - can be harmful when you have lots of instances of Kontakt, for example.

Regarding realtimeconfigquickscan, I sincerely cannot comprehend it at all. When I accomplish all of its goals, my system runs noticeably worse (!!). It's developed, evidently, for other uses... Sampler users should stay away from it, in my opinion.
I suppose machine specs could play a part too. Are there others on Manjaro that experience the same thing? BTW, I generally run a single instance of Kontakt or another VSTi like Sfizz along with an algo reverb at very low blocksizes (128 or even 64) and find all the little tweaks help.
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Old 04-09-2022, 01:56 PM   #75
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Hi, I found your guide very helpful, but just wondering why you're not suggesting to use Pipewire, as it's already included in Manjaro? Do you get better performance without it?
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Old 04-09-2022, 03:14 PM   #76
chmaha
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Originally Posted by foxAsteria View Post
Hi, I found your guide very helpful, but just wondering why you're not suggesting to use Pipewire, as it's already included in Manjaro? Do you get better performance without it?
I tested out Pipewire for a while and found it still lacking for pro audio (for one, REAPER crashed a lot while using) but that was a good few months ago at this point. I found it a pain given I found no easy way to switch samplerates without changing the value in pipewire.conf...Maybe that's different now? I also read recently that there were still some significant bugs to deal with. I'm still using ALSA for most things and JACK very occasionally. I'll give it another look in the next few days. Performance should be identical I imagine...

Last edited by chmaha; 04-10-2022 at 03:05 AM.
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Old 04-10-2022, 06:15 AM   #77
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I updated the guide with the newer rtcqs vs realtimeconfigquickscan.
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Old 04-10-2022, 06:21 AM   #78
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I can't even boot Manjaro. Ubuntu and Mint boot fine on my machine.

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Old 04-10-2022, 06:26 AM   #79
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I can't even boot Manjaro. Ubuntu and Mint boot fine on my machine.

I suspect that you need to disable secure boot. And, as an aside, make sure you create your USB image in DD mode...
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Old 04-10-2022, 06:29 AM   #80
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I suspect that you need to disable secure boot. And, as an aside, make sure you create your USB image in DD mode...
What's DD mode? I tried unetbootin and balenaetcher apps (on windows)
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