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Old 01-20-2021, 04:06 PM   #41
Funicello3
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The normalization functionality in the voting page is wonderful to be able to hear all the tracks at the same volume. It helps a lot to judge fairly.
I agree!
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Old 01-20-2021, 04:45 PM   #42
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Anyone have any suggestions about how one might go about rating these? It doesn't seem like an easy task...

Would/should you use an 'absolute' star value, where 5 stars basically means stellar mix in the world of mixes, 3 average, 1 pretty lousy, or should it be relative, where 5 stars means best of this bunch, 1 means worst of this bunch, etc.(of course in the ears of the listener)?

I was leaning toward the absolute scale - it'd be easier for me to do - but now I'm not sure...
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Old 01-20-2021, 07:38 PM   #43
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Anyone have any suggestions about how one might go about rating these? It doesn't seem like an easy task...

Would/should you use an 'absolute' star value, where 5 stars basically means stellar mix in the world of mixes, 3 average, 1 pretty lousy, or should it be relative, where 5 stars means best of this bunch, 1 means worst of this bunch, etc.(of course in the ears of the listener)?

I was leaning toward the absolute scale - it'd be easier for me to do - but now I'm not sure...
If you want to maximize the impact of your vote, do the latter.
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Old 01-20-2021, 07:43 PM   #44
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^ I was just editing that post, but now I'll add that edit here. Yours is about the conclusion I came to. Thanks for the feedback.

"OK, I've given it some thought, and I think I see what would be best: You basically need to put the mixes into 5 classes, where 5 stars is the top class and 1 star is the bottom class. The star-weighting is relative, it's grading on the curve. The "absolute" scale would make little sense, as you could end up basically giving out zero stars for a bunch of crappy mixes, there would be no 'resolution' to the rating.

If it's done this way, I can see how it'd be better than an overall ranking system, as with ranking like it was done in the past you'd have to have as many 'classes' as there are entries. It's easier to just lump some of them into one class or another, among only 5 classes, i.e. 5 stars."
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Old 01-25-2021, 09:56 AM   #45
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Voting for January ends in ~15 hours, get your votes in!
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Old 01-28-2021, 01:17 AM   #46
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And the winner is ... Dex!



congrats, I'll be in touch shortly to pick the song for next month.

Comments and project file downloads are at https://reamixed.com/results/
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Old 01-28-2021, 01:27 AM   #47
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Hi, just a note about star system - if you think 10 values is better then why not make 10 full stars instead of 5*2 half-stars. But IMO just 5 full stars would be better, easier to make a mental model out of it.
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Old 01-28-2021, 02:46 AM   #48
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Hi, just a note about star system - if you think 10 values is better then why not make 10 full stars instead of 5*2 half-stars. But IMO just 5 full stars would be better, easier to make a mental model out of it.

Sorry Daryl, but I was thinking the same of Bfooz since I took a look for first time the new system. Will fit better with 5 star (like was planning from the beginning). For me was a surprise to find suddenly ten levels of decision instead of 5.

Thanks for the effort in any case.
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Old 01-28-2021, 02:47 AM   #49
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And the winner is ... Dex!



congrats, I'll be in touch shortly to pick the song for next month.

Comments and project file downloads are at https://reamixed.com/results/
Congratulations to DEX, Garanimals and grundton. Excelentes mixes.


Cheers!
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Old 01-28-2021, 09:29 AM   #50
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Sorry Daryl, but I was thinking the same of Bfooz since I took a look for first time the new system. Will fit better with 5 star (like was planning from the beginning). For me was a surprise to find suddenly ten levels of decision instead of 5.

Thanks for the effort in any case.
If you don't want to use the half stars, you don't have to. I think it's good to have the option.
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Old 01-28-2021, 11:42 AM   #51
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Nice Job everyone and congratulations Dex!

Looking forward to next month!

I'm fine with the .5 increments in voting.
Just gives more granularity.
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Old 01-28-2021, 02:46 PM   #52
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Congrats to Dex!

I'm a bit surprised that someone gave my mix a half a star. Now my mix wasn't that great to be 5 stars for sure, even in my opinion but far from half a star! Wow. Did this person even listen to my mix at all? Someone gave me 1/2 star and someone gave me 5 star. That is quite the extreme LOL!

I'm okay with the 1/2 star increments. Basically think of it as a rating between 1 and 10.

Last edited by Trogdor; 01-28-2021 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 01-29-2021, 01:15 AM   #53
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Congratulations to Dex and thank you all.

It's the first time I got feedback for something musical I did. I will definitely participate more and learn from it.
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:17 AM   #54
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Congrats, Dex; yours was my choice at first view. It´s so nice.

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I'm a bit surprised that someone gave my mix a half a star.
Be positive: it might well be that whoever gave your mix half a star, gave the rest of us just zero.

Other than that, in the unlikely case that any body would feel like to taking a look at my mix I think it would be of some interest to point out some details:

- the voice. No sooner had I listened to the other mixes I realized what I was afraid of it before hand: I screwed it up using the scratch track. Other mates used it in a more sensible way, and they nailed it, for instance when the singer says "muuuuuch". In adition, if anybody wants to see a detailed de-essing (and probably useless) handycraft work, there it is (in my mix, I mean).

- Reverb. I tend to use the same for all the instruments, tweaking the volume, of course, for each one. Doing so I try to get a sort of unity.

- Don't expect to find any sophisticated technique or way of routing there: ReaEQ, ReComp and not much else. Some stuff that I like to use:
* the Chanel Time Delayer (for the hats, for instance)
* a plugin chain for an important instrument (or group, the horns in this case) that I saw in a site called Reaper Blog, where I found several of the procedures I follow, or at least, a reference
* the piano is panned with the dual pan option

- I didn´t use any reference for the mix. An unforgivable mistake that I will correct in the future, thanks to Javi's advice.

- The odd way I use to get the final mix fitted within the limits of the contest. I was forced to re-render the FLAC file so, just rendering from my project, I couldn't match the -14 LUFS and the -1 dBFS.

Finally, I will apreciate your comments, being aware of how much I have to correct in my way of mixing.

Last edited by LCM!; 01-29-2021 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 01-29-2021, 08:05 AM   #55
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One more thing:
I automated the count of the guy in the beginning, raising up the volume (one.. tick.. two... tick... one two... Ppssstt) because I thought it looks fancy, doesn´t it?

Last edited by LCM!; 01-29-2021 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 01-29-2021, 10:00 AM   #56
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Be positive: it might well be that whoever gave your mix half a star, gave the rest of us just zero.
Actually that is not the case at all. The minimum amount you can give is 1/2 star. You can't get lower than that. So at least one person thought my mix was the worst and at least one person thought my mix was the best. Personally I don't agree with either. On the website you can see the lowest and highest rating for everyone.

When I did the grading on these mixes I never gave anyone more than 4 stars because for me to give a 5 star, the mix would have to be very stellar and perfect in every way and that was not the case with any of them including mine.

I also think that everyone should be leaving a comment and I see that some people do not. The only way you can learn is with some constructive criticism as well as looking at the projects of others.
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:48 PM   #57
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Wow, thanks everyone! I didn't have much time to mix this month, although I probably still spent more time on my mix than most professionals would have needed to get a better mix. I'm so happy you all enjoyed my mix. My selection for Feb is coming soon.

Trogdor, I had you down as a 3 star mix. I only used 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 stars because I worked out how I was going to vote before I went to the website and saw you could do half stars. If we really wanted to stretch things we could allow the users to enter any decimal between 1 and 5, but that seems unnecessary. I like the half star system and will use it fully going forward.

I also have to apologize because I didn't write any feedback this time. I've been so pressed for time lately and I think this is the first time since we started doing feedback that I failed to do that. I will try to write some feedback soon. It was pretty easy for me to assign star ratings, but writing the feedback will take longer. Also, I noticed that someone didn't finish their comment on my mix: "NIcely balanced, but " - but what? LOL. I'd be curious to know.
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Old 01-29-2021, 04:07 PM   #58
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I think I'm going to stop showing the min and max ratings. I included them because I thought you might be interesting to see how much of the voting is subjective. One man's five is another man's point five. I've been collecting other stats on the mixes and the project files that I may include in the future, those are more fun and possibly helpful.
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Old 01-29-2021, 04:44 PM   #59
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Shouldn't the results summary include total points, isn't that what's most important?

You have a potential point total ranging from zero to (# of contestants - 1) X 5. In the current case it'd be 13 X 5 = 65 points. A scale from 0 to 65 provides the most comprehensive summary measure. The average, min, and max discount the number of people who actually voted for one mix or another.

You could have, say, one mix that has 3 votes of 3 stars each, for a total of 9 points, an average of 3. And another mix with a total of 10 votes, say 5 with 2 stars and 5 with 4 stars, for a total of 30 points, and an average of -- 3. Clearly the mix that had more people actually voting for it is better than the mix with only 3 people voting, yet they both have the same average...

Or maybe it's not so clear, but point total is the better, more comprehensive summary measure.

It's actually not clear how the voting and tabulating works. Is it the average that dictates the final 'score'? How do you treat no-votes? Seems like, in order to have a decent rating system, you need to treat no-vote as zero points, i.e. it has to factor-in to the average. Otherwise, like I said above, you could end up with a summary measure, an average, based on only a few votes...
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Old 01-29-2021, 04:54 PM   #60
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Seems like, in order to have a decent rating system, you need to treat no-vote as zero points
Or another alternative is to not allow no-votes. Each mix will have to be starred by each voter. (don't know how it's now)
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Old 01-29-2021, 04:57 PM   #61
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The average is the better score for a few reasons in this case. For one, since people don't vote on their own mix, and not everybody votes, looking at the total score would give an advantage to people who didn't vote. Second, there are no non votes, except for your own mix. Sorry if I didn't make this clear enough.
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Old 01-29-2021, 05:04 PM   #62
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^ Maybe it wouldn't be the summary measure, but I think it would at least be a good addition to the average, or maybe include the total number of voters - that'd probably be best...

* * *

I'm looking at some of the comments on my mix, and a couple don't really seem like they are for my mix. These two comments seem to point to the mix that used the "scratch" vocal track, if I'm understanding these comments right (I didn't use the scratch vox):

Voter #1 big brass opener, where's the drums? using the guide vocal which is unusual too
Voter #9 Good balance Vox is strange - I think would have been better with 1 vox. Horns are well mixed.
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Old 01-29-2021, 05:29 PM   #63
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^ Maybe it wouldn't be the summary measure, but I think it would at least be a good addition to the average, or maybe include the total number of voters - that'd probably be best...

* * *

I'm looking at some of the comments on my mix, and a couple don't really seem like they are for my mix. These two comments seem to point to the mix that used the "scratch" vocal track, if I'm understanding these comments right (I didn't use the scratch vox):

Voter #1 big brass opener, where's the drums? using the guide vocal which is unusual too
Voter #9 Good balance Vox is strange - I think would have been better with 1 vox. Horns are well mixed.
Hmm, hope I didn't mix up a couple of the mixes, apologies if I did. I'll check it out tonight.
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Old 01-29-2021, 07:45 PM   #64
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I think I'm going to stop showing the min and max ratings. I included them because I thought you might be interesting to see how much of the voting is subjective. One man's five is another man's point five. I've been collecting other stats on the mixes and the project files that I may include in the future, those are more fun and possibly helpful.
For me it was helpful to see them, but maybe that's because I liked the result. The lowest ranking my mix got from anyone was 3.5 stars, which is way better than I expected, and it's useful to know that my mix translated that well to everyone's system.
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Old 01-29-2021, 08:40 PM   #65
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I think I'm going to stop showing the min and max ratings. I included them because I thought you might be interesting to see how much of the voting is subjective. One man's five is another man's point five. I've been collecting other stats on the mixes and the project files that I may include in the future, those are more fun and possibly helpful.
I like the idea of showing the min and max myself.

I'm not so sure that I can agree with you regarding one man's 1/2 star is another mans 5 star. There is no possible way that someone could have listened to my mix and rated it as the worst mix possible. For me to give someone a 1/2 star, there would have to be many issues wrong with it and I usually can tell within the first 10 or so seconds of the song starting on how the mix will go but I do listen to the whole thing pretty much.

I'm thinking that maybe someone got mixed up as to what they were listening to and accidentally rated mine a 1/2 star but may have been meant for someone else. That would be the only thing that I can think of, or if somehow the mixes and the numbers were mixed up on the site.

Either way this is a learning experience for everyone anyway, I'm looking forward to the next one.
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Old 01-29-2021, 09:00 PM   #66
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I'm not so sure I can agree with you regarding one man's 1/2 star is another man's 5 star. There is no possible way that someone could have listened to my mix and rated it as the worst mix possible...
That's pretty funny. In this day-n-age, I don't know, anything seems possible.
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Old 01-29-2021, 10:37 PM   #67
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Ok, I found some time tonight to write out my comments:

1 - Great mix. My only complaints are I would like a little more low end, and the vocalist sounds a little detached from the band, like she's just a little too forward.
2 - A little too much ambience on the vocals, and the drums (particularly the kick) are too loud. The mix is actually quite good overall, but I can barely hear the solo. Turn that thing up!
3 - Mix feels small and boxy. Vox are well treated though.
4 - There is no low end here whatsoever, like the whole mix has been hipassed at 200. Vox have a bit too much 3k, I think.
5
6 - Very good mix. However, the vocals are so loud that they make the band sound very far back, but the ambience on the vocals makes you think they're kind of far back too, contradicting the implied closeness you get from the volume. I think if you lower the volume on the vocals you'd have a winner here.
7 - Too much reverb, a bit muddy.
8 - Great balance. Very lively. This is the only mix I gave 5 stars to.
9 - Bass drum is too loud and floppy. Mix is muddy, and I'm frequently struggling to hear the vox clearly.
10 - I liked the idea behind your use of the scratch vocal track. However, I think you should do something to separate the two vocal tracks when they play at the same time, and overall the vox are too dry and nasal. Very good automation for the solo section. Brass section could use some more separation, and I would like to hear some more energy from the band. You've gone for more of a chill lounge feel but the horns have some real attitude that I would prefer be better showcased.
11 - The waveform is less squashed than #14 but this one sounds even more squashed because of how the master compressor is set. Back off on that compressor and I think this could be a really good mix.
12 - Great mix. My only complaints are I would like some more volume on the solo and a little less >3500.
13 - Kick is wayyyyy too loud. It takes over the whole mix and is making your master bus compresser do unwanted things.
14 - Very squashed mix. I thought the instrument and frequency balance was pretty good overall, but I didn't like the use of both vocal tracks throughout. Sometimes people double track vocals to thicken up the vocal sound in the mix. This track was not one of those cases. When people double track vocals for use in the mix they go for such a tight alignment between the two recordings that you can barely even tell that it's not a single performance. I think I remember hearing that basically all of Dave Grohl's vocals on the Foo Fighters album The Colour and the Shape were double tracked. Listen to that album to get an idea for what double tracked vocals are going for.
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Old 01-30-2021, 12:51 AM   #68
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I made notes, but I also didn't vote. They might be worth something to somebody, so I'll go ahead and post them. Keep in mind that they're not 'censored', there's no filter here, they're more like notes to myself rather than...true constructive criticism. I'd also rather have been more organized and structured making the notes, as-is they're too scattered, impressionistic/first impressions... I need to make a check list if I do this again...


1 - good balance/OK tonality, too much reverb on vox, vox thin and crispy, vox sounds too compressed, overall dynamics sound too compressed/flat, mid-section needs attention/instrument panning and placement

2 - too much reverb/bright on vox, vox too thin/crispy, overheads (ride, hat) too bright/forward, too much boom on kick, snare sounds good (can actually hear the snares), vox double effect out of place, piano too wide, drums actually sound pretty decent except the kick boom, other instruments sound too detached from drums, not the worst...

3 - a little claustrophobic, mid section needs work, some solos out of whack/dynamics, panning/placement needs work, vox reverb a bit off, horns too crispy/bright, overheads to crisp/bright/forward

4 - vox too dry, thin, piano too wide - everything too wide, there's nothing in middle, bad transition to trombone solo, overall tonality is way off - too mid-rangey/thin/no low end

5 - horns a bit bright, awkward eq on vox (too much around 2-4k), overall tonality too much around 3-5k, awkward eq on bass (sounds muffle-y), too much compression/dynamics flat, piano sounds thin and too wide, middle image sounds congested with low-end while wide image too searing, plus contrast of searing vox in middle vis-a-vis low-end congestion in middle is a too-stark contrast, overall need better balance among these elements so they blend better/sound more 'mixed', not the worst mix, probably upper-middle of pack

6 - unnatural kick, vox too thin/bright/reverb on it not quite there, horns too thin and bright, wide, trombone solo sounds like it's in the rear corner of the auditorium, hard to listen to

7 - reverb a little overboard, too bright/crispy, too much reverb on vox, image too wide/middle a bit hollow, good balance/tonality, instruments sound good/good timbre, dynamics a bit flat, most solos don't jump out enough

8 - horns too wide, vox a bit thin and bright/forward, too much around 2k, vox reverb a tad too bright or much (maybe), too much compression/dynamics flat, middle image on the hollow side, pretty decent instrument distribution in middle section but usually seems panned too wide, fairly decent tonality/balance, not too hard to listen to, but some parts are, mostly due to being way overly compressed/limited.

9 - drums in the bathroom, vox thin/crispy/dry/awkward reverb, piano in the lobby, hard to listen to

10 - a little thin/lacking bottom-end, vox too thin/dry/forward, piano too quiet, double-vox effect not good, medium-hard to listen too - not the worst, but...

11 - way too compressed, vox too thin/dry, overheads too bright/prominent, this is hard to listen to

12 - balance off left-heavy, vox too bright/crispy, piano too quiet, sax 1 a little bright and far left, big boom on kick - sounds like 4th of July, overheads/ride too bright/forward, dynamics flat, almost painful to listen to/the brightness/it's searing

13 - way too much compression/limiting, vox too thin/dry, weird treatment of percussion - sounds like it's in a can, like kick and snare tracks, overheads a bit bright/forward, trombone placement/panning is all over the place, vox is way anemic - like it's equal in weight to the ride, very hard to listen to.

14 - too compressed, awkward start, doubled vox effect sounds bad, hard to listen to
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Old 01-30-2021, 12:20 PM   #69
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I also think that everyone should be leaving a comment and I see that some people do not. The only way you can learn is with some constructive criticism as well as looking at the projects of others.
I agree. My apologies to all...had a family emergency that consumed my time the last couple weeks, so I didn't vote or leave comments.

All of the comments about my mix pointed out the same problems, so I have some obvious areas to improve. That's super valuable info...thanks to everyone who voted and commented.

Congrats Dex, great mix!
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Old 02-01-2021, 11:46 AM   #70
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5 - horns a bit bright, awkward eq on vox (too much around 2-4k), overall tonality too much around 3-5k, awkward eq on bass (sounds muffle-y), too much compression/dynamics flat, piano sounds thin and too wide, middle image sounds congested with low-end while wide image too searing, plus contrast of searing vox in middle vis-a-vis low-end congestion in middle is a too-stark contrast, overall need better balance among these elements so they blend better/sound more 'mixed', not the worst mix, probably upper-middle of pack
Hey, thanks! I backed off a few dB on the vox at 2k and on the mix bus around 3.5k and that alone really helped the mix gel a lot better.
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Old 02-01-2021, 10:50 PM   #71
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^ Yeah, but what about the rest?! (just kidding)...
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Old 02-04-2021, 09:28 PM   #72
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I worked a bit more on my Much Too Much mix, what I got is a little more representative of what I had in mind. Considering that I criticized others' mixes, yet really didn't have much to show for myself, I figured it might be best to at least try to create something that reflected my own values...

I think the dynamics here are closer to the mark - for a lot of the mixes I said they were 'too flat/compressed', for instance. This mix, I think, should at least give you an idea of what I think is closer to right...

Overall I feel pretty good about the balance between instruments, the dynamics, panning and placement in a relative sense, though not quite in an absolute sense - i.e. the relationship among instruments is good, I think, I like it, but the overall image is a bit narrow, congested. I would have liked to get a little more space in the mix, between the instruments, but I couldn't really get there, not without sacrificing the right blend of the instruments...

I feel so-so about instrument timbres. They're OK, I think, but not great... The overall tonality? - hard to say. I feel so-so about that. I think it's close, but I don't have total confidence in my monitoring and my ability to get that right... In general, I think there's a lot of mid-range congestion, and some of the instruments sound too screechy at times.

Etc etc. Lots of little things I would have liked to fix, but I could only spend so much time on this...

You can download mix at this link, it's just a 6MB mp3: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AskciUu3eSuSgRmX...5z6PX?e=MH0aAy
(looks like it might just play on its own, from the website, might have to right click or whatever to download)

I'm not really expecting any feedback here, I kind of just wanted to follow-through with the mix. I figured it made sense to post the result. BUT, I would certainly appreciate any feedback if you end up having any. I do hope you listen to the mix, though.

Last edited by eq1; 02-04-2021 at 10:36 PM.
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