MIDI Editor

[FretBuzz]

I was going to create a MIDI drum track but I can find no way of opening the MIDI editor other than selecting an item that already contains MIDI and even then the length available in the editor is only as long as the item selected. Is there some way of openening the MIDI editor so that you write a MIDI track from scratch and with out some 'length limit'.

Thanks

[Mr. Data]

If you, in the MIDI editor, go to the right border of the item the mouse pointer changes to a symbol with two arrows directing to the left and right and a grid, you can lengthen the item.



-Data

[DBMusic]

Quick way to get to the editor: Press CTRL, left-click and drag to create a new MIDI item. Double-click on the item.

Regards,

DB

[ivansc]

Once again Reaper`s MIDI comes up short.
Why the hell can`t Justin and Co just stick to a rational way of doing this?

Every time I try something "new" in reapers MIDI I am forced to the conclusion that the devs have NEVER editied MIDI in another DAW or sequencer.

Not really complaining, just fail to see WHY they didn`t just go "Oh well, everyone else does it THIS way, we might as well do the same" instead of "Oh well, everyone else does it THIS way, let`s invent a whole new, far more time-consuming way of doing it"

*sigh* And so I am back with Bars n Pipes Pro on my Amiga 1200....

[Sibben]

REAPER is item centric in its approach so it really does make sense that you need to create an item before you edit it. It's really simple to create a custom action that creates an empty MIDI item and opens it though. Put it in a toolbar and voila. But yeah it threw me off in the beginning.

[FretBuzz]

Thanks for the replies - the Ctrl + left-click and drag works fine + for some reason I had never noticed that you could easily lengthen the item in the MIDI editor, doh!!.

Anyway, to me, it now works fine - so thanks again.

[warmingtone]

Great, found a partial answer to my newbie 'midi' question...

Additionally, you can go to "insert" on the main menu bar at the top and select 'insert MIDI item' to put in a blank midi and then double click on the editor to open up the editor.

Is there a short cut or a way of inserting faster or more efficiently?

Highlighting this or a portion (say a bar) allows you to 'loop' just this section as you edit, great!

[Sibben]

CTRL let's you draw empty items of any length directly in the track lane.

[hopi]

Oh? Reaper to the rescue:

Custom action name: Insert new trak and 8 bar midi item and open in editor

Track: Insert new track at end of track list
Track: Select last touched track
Track: Set to one random color
Colors: Reset random color generator
Transport: Go to start of project
Time selection: Set start point
Move edit cursor forward one measure
Move edit cursor forward one measure
Move edit cursor forward one measure
Move edit cursor forward one measure
Move edit cursor forward one measure
Move edit cursor forward one measure
Move edit cursor forward one measure
Move edit cursor forward one measure
Time selection: Set end point
Insert new MIDI item...
Time selection: Remove time selection
Item: Select all items in track
Item: Open in last focused MIDI editor (preserve existing editor contents)

this is made for V4 but I'm sure you can adapt it for V3...

It makes a new trak, puts in an 8 bar blank midi item and opens it in the editor... hey, it even colors the traks to random colors...

Now... what exactly was it that reaper won't do as good as other DAW's???

You want more measures... just add the obvious actions... you want less? remove a few...

In fact you can make modified versions of this macro to put whatever numbers of measures on a new track right where your edit cursor is...

Make a slew of them and add them to a floating toolbar, just for instantly making various types of black midi items and having them all open the editor....

[gofer]

The last action in your macro doesn't exist in Reaper 3.x . You need to use "Item: Open items in primary external editor" or better skip the "select all items" step and use "Item: Open all MIDI items on selected tracks in one MIDI editor".

A downside of your macro is that there will always be a new track created, which isn't always what you want. So you'd need to create the same set of macros (for each item length you want to have access to with the set) without the track creation step. Resulting in yet another toolbar with lots of buttons (or a menu with lots of similar entries) and the need to choose the right one for the purpose at hand. IMO, it's far easier and less clutter to just paint the item in as Sibben mentions or do a time selection and then use simple "Insert new MIDI item".

The smart way would be an action "Insert new MIDI item, prompt for length" which would open a dialog where you enter the wanted length. One single, flexible command, no toolbar or menu clutter or memorizing of a multitude of key commands.


The thing that Reaper doesn't do as well as other DAWs is that you need an item to open a MIDI editor in the first place. It would be far better if we could just open a MIDI editor (or an inline MIDI editor) for a track and go ahead entering stuff where ever we want on that track.
This has been talked about a lot. The item centric approach is a cause for many less-than-ideal behaviors of Reaper's MIDI editing, eg you have to constantly repeat an edit for all items on a track if you want it to be track-wide (like shift a note a semitone up on the entire track) and ever so often find yourself reassigning vertical scroll/zoom when you open another item in a new editor. Split an item and you need to open the MIDI editor again for one part of the split. When it comes to the Inline Editor, the item centric method makes it editing hell, IMO. just try to have a multitude of Inline Editors line up their zoom/scroll settings, so that notes are at the same height and same size. Or close all Inline editors on a track with lots of items. I'd love to use MIDI inline editing, but it's just too crazy to handle.

The devs are aware and one fine day track based MIDI editing will see the light in Reaper.

[stumpbroke1]

Here is a dumb question I insert empty midi item on track, in version 3 I could open midi editor by double clicking on empty Item, but now no editor comes up and item shows offline. so how do open midi editor so that I can step record on empty item the way I could in version 3?

[warmingtone]

Thanks for the further replies...

On opening the midi editor, DB Music above offers...


@Stumpbroke1
"Quick way to get to the editor: Press CTRL, left-click and drag to create a new MIDI item. Double-click on the item."

This does seem to do the trick but as new I was having a similar problem and am still having a few anomalies happen. I fiound the same thing happened to me with the "insert midi" thing, this morning I quickly opened Reaper up to test some of these and the ctrl thing drew copies of another track everywhere...LOL...interesting feature...

...

Otherwise...

Interesting...but being new...how do you add macros like the one listed dare I ask?!

...

It does seem a little odd that things that are fairly routine and established with other programs to some extent requires work around and macros...but then there are reasons I recently moved over to Reaper. It clearly is a powerful program and it might take a bit of getting used to.

Some of these Midi things, editing, transposing and such...might force me to turn back to more intuitive programs for a while for those functions. I came from Mixcraft with basic notation and piano roll on all the tracks when you select them and very intuitive ways of doing these kinds of things...but there is a lot that it simply can't do of course..

A button or menu option to 'save loop' of midi would be ideal for some of my purposes.

I have not tried 4 yet, so to be fair will see what's new in this area and got lots to learn to get familiar with the procedures in Reaper.

Thanks again for the tips, been away a few days, but will try out some more things, which may have more answers and solutions, during the week.

[stumpbroke1]

Finally I figured it out, when I did portable install, I installed to desktop, in Win7 you have to go to desktop folder and delete entire reaper x64 folder, and not just the reaper.exe file which shows on your desktop with reaper icon. I went to Desktop/Reaper(x64) and deleted entire folder and reinstalled(portable install) to Desktop. Just in case anyone else runs into this problem. everything seems to be working properly again.

[khushalbhadra]

Can we not have a Button straight away to open Midi Editor. Why we only have to record Midi events and then double click on it and open. WHat If I just wanna open Midi editor and program a drum from start.

ALl we need is a MIDI Editor Button to open that easily. Any Solution to this?

[jlgrimes11]

Originally Posted by ivansc

Once again Reaper`s MIDI comes up short.
Why the hell can`t Justin and Co just stick to a rational way of doing this?

Every time I try something "new" in reapers MIDI I am forced to the conclusion that the devs have NEVER editied MIDI in another DAW or sequencer.

Not really complaining, just fail to see WHY they didn`t just go "Oh well, everyone else does it THIS way, we might as well do the same" instead of "Oh well, everyone else does it THIS way, let`s invent a whole new, far more time-consuming way of doing it"

*sigh* And so I am back with Bars n Pipes Pro on my Amiga 1200....

Problem is that a lot of midi sequencers work this way. Even the "good" ones.

A list of other programs that does this:

1. Cubase
2. Ableton Live
3. Reason/Record (although I think the new versions allow you to write midi without creating a clip now).


The only program I know that doesn't work this way is Sonar.

[planetnine]

Originally Posted by khushalbhadra

Can we not have a Button straight away to open Midi Editor. Why we only have to record Midi events and then double click on it and open. WHat If I just wanna open Midi editor and program a drum from start.

ALl we need is a MIDI Editor Button to open that easily. Any Solution to this?

Can be done with a MAcro and a toolbar button

>

[khushalbhadra]

Originally Posted by planetnine

Can be done with a MAcro and a toolbar button

>

How can u do this with Macros. Can you help me out?

[brainwreck]

Originally Posted by khushalbhadra

How can u do this with Macros. Can you help me out?

I'm not sure how planetnine is doing it, but you can create a new action, combining 'insert new MIDI item' and 'open in new MIDI editor' or 'open in last focused MIDI editor'.

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by jlgrimes11

Problem is that a lot of midi sequencers work this way. Even the "good" ones.

A list of other programs that does this:

1. Cubase
2. Ableton Live
3. Reason/Record (although I think the new versions allow you to write midi without creating a clip now).


The only program I know that doesn't work this way is Sonar.

(grin) Which looking back on it may well be why I never got on with Cubase and chose Sonar3 as my first foray into non-Amiga MIDI sequncing.
Never even occurred to me that there would be other DAWs who had item based MIDI editing, but surely (IIR) you can choose to do either in Cubase, no?

Never even tried the other two programmes you mentioned, btw.
Unfortunately, having gotten used to track based MIDI that is easily splittable into items with the Amiga and then finding a PC DAW that was almost s friendly, I now really struggle to adapt to anything different.
Hence I still do any serious MIDI work in Bars n Pipes Pro still.
My thinking behind this is that as a musician I dont PLAY s series of two four or eight bar segments and then stitch them together, so how does it make sense for the DAW to force me to work this way exclusively?

My normal working method is to programme in a basic drum track (usually with mouse or my Nanopad if the e-kit is not convenient) in order to get a solid groove going, which I cannot do for the life of me in two bar segments.

Moan moan moan......

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by planetnine

Can be done with a MAcro and a toolbar button

>

Just on the offchance that this might speed things up for me, what would I have to write to do something like this?

Anything is better than nothing, although I suspect it will still be quicker and easier to import my midi from the Amiga....

[xpander]

New MIDI item & open the editor

Insert new MIDI item...
Item navigation: Move cursor left to edge of item
Item: Open in last focused MIDI editor (preserve existing editor contents)


The item navigation action there just to make it ready to play, can be left out.
There are different options for the last action depending on what kind of editor you want to open. I use this because I want to have it all in the same window.

[ivansc]

All that to open a new midi item and get it ready to edit.

Bloody hell.

I am finding it very hard not to just give up and stick to the Amiga till Reaper catches up. Eventually.....

[xpander]

Originally Posted by ivansc

All that to open a new midi item and get it ready to edit.

Haha, well, not exactly. All that to make a custom action which will then create a new MIDI item and open it in the MIDI editor, whenever you want.

Just left click and drag on the main arrange while holding SHIFT to create a new MIDI item of any length and double click to open it, if that's faster.

But you know that and I hear you, being able to open the MIDI editor straight away at any given moment would be neat. You'd still have to create a new item in there, but maybe that could be automated to a degree at least. Yet, you can already for example keep drawing notes past the current item end if you untick Loop source, thus automatically extending the item.

[Lawrence]

Ivan and I are anything but soul mates but on this subject matter we certainly agree. Every time one of these threads come up I see yet another potential limitation of item based midi sequencing.

Below... midi editor open with an 8 bar clip. I want to draw in another clip on the same track. Not only is there no visible timeline grid past the end of the clip to guide me for drawing in a new clip, I also can't (afaik) just directly draw in a new clip in a clip based system?



So below, clip starting at bar 13. Running a full screen maximized ME. How exactly do I place the cursor at bar 8 to run up to bar 12 when there's no timeline or grid there before the clip starts?



Sorry for beating this dead horse yet again, but, Ivan's right.

[ivansc]

Lawrence - I have always thought you were essentially on the same page as me once I realised what your situation was regarding The Other DAW (grin).
Prior to that little misunderstanding I had noticed a lot of what you said was in line with my own thinking.

But I still dont want to have your babies....

P.S. I am giving some serious thought to my idle threat to get someone to video me editing etc on the Amiga, in the hope that seeing what IS possible might provoke some more in depth discussion on this and other Arranging and editing subjects.

I sorted out Man with Video camera today, now all I have to do is figure out how to do it and how to post it on here as and when it is finished!
Do not hold your collective breath.

[TechDAWg]

Originally Posted by Sibben

REAPER is item centric in its approach so it really does make sense that you need to create an item before you edit it. It's really simple to create a custom action that creates an empty MIDI item and opens it though. Put it in a toolbar and voila. But yeah it threw me off in the beginning.

I don't think the item centric approach does anything for MIDI editing. they should abandon it.