Finally took the plunge

[Philbo King]

I got Linux Mint 19 running on my studio PC and got Reaper up and running.
It was quite a journey...

I still don't have both video adapters running, and likely never will (one is Matrix, one is Nvidea) because they don't have the same resolution, and web research indicates it is a nonstarter to get multicards of different types/multimontor setups in Linux working. But the Matrox dual-head is sufficient for now.

I first tried Mint 20 on a USB hard drive, and it installed everything but Grub, so I could't boot for a while. I gave up on that, and tried Mint 19 on an internal drive. That went MUCH smoother.

My Presonus 1818VSL works at 5/5 mS now! (I haven't tried faster settings yet, but 5 is great. The best it could do in Win was 50 mS.

Thanks for all the various links to stuff in this forum, especially http://tedfelix.com/linux/linux-midi.html
It was invaluable!

I still don't have any of the MIDI ports working, but I should get that sorted out in a day or so.

[Glennbo]

Congrats Philbo! There is definitely a learning curve getting comfortable with Linux. I switched my DAW over in August 2018 and haven't looked back. Since then I've switched all but one Windows tablet over, and it's on the hit list when I have some time to mess with it.

[ivansc]

I just lit up lubuntu 14 on a very old Dell computer & I am amazed at how much quicker it runs than with Win 10!

Maybe I should get serious about Linux reaper if linux helps old hardware this much!
I just downloaded AV linux, so may try running it on this old crock.

[Philbo King]

Ivan - I found it won't do miracles. A few days ago I replaced Win Vista with Mint 20 on a 2006 Compaq laptop for a friend, dual core AMD cpu, 1G RAM, 80G hard drive, basically a 'senior citizen' of the computer world. And it's pretty sluggish, though it works. About 4-5 minutes to boot.

[Glennbo]

I put Xubuntu on an Asus T100 Transformer a couple of days ago, setting it up for dual boot Windows 8.1 and Xubuntu. Xubuntu boots faster, connects to my router and has internet ready faster, and loads apps like Firefox and Thunderbird noticeably quicker.

I chose Xubuntu about ten years ago for a MythTV server that was running then on my previous DAW, which was a Core2 Duo, and I chose it because the MythTV guys recommended it specifically for older hardware because of it's light weight footprint. When I switched my DAW over 2 years ago I figgered I already was familiar with Xubuntu, and it would likely fly on better hardware, so I installed it there too and haven't changed since. Currently, I have Xubuntu on 6 of the 7 machines in my house.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by ivansc

I just lit up lubuntu 14 on a very old Dell computer & I am amazed at how much quicker it runs than with Win 10!

Maybe I should get serious about Linux reaper if linux helps old hardware this much!
I just downloaded AV linux, so may try running it on this old crock.

Lubuntu is even lighter weight than Xubunutu Ivan.

Here's a rundown of the differences between them.

http://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/lubuntu-vs-xubuntu

[ivansc]

|O-kay, Glenbo. I will try Xubuntu first but really fancy using a distro from one of the "studio/audio version-specific suppliers.

It is so long since I last ran Linux I am pretty clueless these days.

Started out with Unix and OS9/K on 6809 cpus in the early eighties.

[s wave]

Originally Posted by ivansc

|O-kay, Glenbo. I will try Xubuntu first but really fancy using a distro from one of the "studio/audio version-specific suppliers.

It is so long since I last ran Linux I am pretty clueless these days.

Started out with Unix and OS9/K on 6809 cpus in the early eighties.

Regular mint is heavier than xfce... etc... if you like mint then try it... if you have trouble... There are many mnay ways to streamline OSs now... don't forget to re-set default settings like 'swap' etc. gl

[Philbo King]

Ok, so I'm hoping one of you kind souls will help out a newbie in Linux.
I got the audio working fine, but MIDI hardware ports are giving me issues in Reaper.

I have 2 MIDI ports I'd like to get working:
Presonus 1818VSL
Terratec MT88
(I also have a MIDIPLUS 4x4 USB, but I don't think it'll ever work in Linux. It is designed to use some built in driver in Win)

If I set Reaper Prefs to Jack, there are 63 or 64 numbered available midi ins and outs, but none of them talk to any of the physical ports.

If I set it to ALSA, the MT88 input works but not the output, and the Presonus output works but not the input. They don't open when I click Reset Midi Devices.

I got a program called something like KT Midi Monitor from the repository, and it shows data from both inputs when I monitor all inputs.

Any ideas, links, tutorials out there?
Thanks in advance for any replies.

[Glennbo]

If possible, I would avoid JACK unless it's the only way you can get both midi ports working. I had to use JACK with a pair of M-Audio Delta 2496 cards to make them both work, and to make the midi work on both. It was an extra layer of complexity.

Later I bought a Behringer UMC1820 and set it up with ALSA along with an Akai MPD26 pad controller. Midi on both work using ALSA and I only needed to select the two ports for the two devices. Also, make sure you have Suspend Pulse Audio ticked in REAPER because the OS may latch onto stuff and make it unavailable to REAPER.

[Philbo King]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

If possible, I would avoid JACK unless it's the only way you can get both midi ports working. I had to use JACK with a pair of M-Audio Delta 2496 cards to make them both work, and to make the midi work on both. It was an extra layer of complexity.

Later I bought a Behringer UMC1820 and set it up with ALSA along with an Akai MPD26 pad controller. Midi on both work using ALSA and I only needed to select the two ports for the two devices. Also, make sure you have Suspend Pulse Audio ticked in REAPER because the OS may latch onto stuff and make it unavailable to REAPER.

Thanks so much for the reply.

I saw this post, tried it, and all of my midi ports starting working under Jack (even the MIDIPLUS 4x4):
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...33&postcount=3

It appears this 'a2j -e' command has to be run every time just before starting Reaper, so I suppose I'll have to learn how to make a bash script to launch them both. I think l'll have another try at using ALSA first though.

(Edit)
ALSA was a no go... Yes, I did tick the 'suspend Pulseaudo'.
I also did a more thorough test of the 1818VSL audio inputs. Only inputs 1-8 work (the ones on the VSL itself). The others, 9-16, are ADAT (a Behringer ADA8200 linked to the VSL through fiber cables). The ADA8200 clock LED shows it's synced. So I guess the next hurdle is to get this working..

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Philbo King

Thanks so much for the reply.

I saw this post, tried it, and all of my midi ports starting working under Jack (even the MIDIPLUS 4x4):
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...33&postcount=3

It appears this 'a2j -e' command has to be run every time just before starting Reaper, so I suppose I'll have to learn how to make a bash script to launch them both. I think l'll have another try at using ALSA first though.

If you can get ALSA to work, there will be fewer moving parts in the chain.

That said, a script was exactly how I launched JACK and REAPER, and I linked it up to an icon I could just click to start it all up.

When I used JACK I had this line in REAPER as my JACK startup. The first bit starts jackd at 80% priority with input from alsa (I think is what that one is) on hardware M2496 (which was my Delta card) @ 44,100 sample rate, 64 sample buffer and 2 periods. The -Xseq links up the midi.

/usr/bin/jackd -P80 -dalsa -dhw:M2496 -r44100 -p64 -n2 -Xseq

Also, here's my old startup script if it helps you any. This setup midi and launched REAPER. Then REAPER started jack for me.

a2jmidid -e &
sleep .5
zita-a2j -d hw:3 &
sleep .5
~/.local/share/reaper_linux_x86_64/REAPER/reaper &

[Philbo King]

Thanks so much! I'll dig into what these do and try it all out.

[Philbo King]

I got the 8 ADAT inputs working. Dumb mustake... I was feeding Adat input 1, but monitoring the SP/DIF Left in Reaper. I forgot inputs 9 and 10 are SP/DIF L & R. ADAT IN 1-8 go to inputs 11-18. Doh!

[Philbo King]

So...

I copied my VST collection to a linux folder, and ran linvsttree on it to create .so files from each. Now what? Can Reaper use those directly, or do I need Wine and/or Carla or something else?

I told Reaper to clear and rescan, and it's been running over an hour. So I'm guessing it either hung, or is quite busy working on them. :-)

Thanks for your help!

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Philbo King

So...

I copied my VST collection to a linux folder, and ran linvsttree on it to create .so files from each. Now what? Can Reaper use those directly, or do I need Wine and/or Carla or something else?

I told Reaper to clear and rescan, and it's been running over an hour. So I'm guessing it either hung, or is quite busy working on them. :-)

Thanks for your help!

You do need WINE if they are Windows plugins, and wine-staging seems to have the best compatibility. On my DAW, all my Windows plugins are located in this path.

~/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/VSTPlugins/

When I ran LinVST all the .so files that got generated are also in that path. Lastly, add that path to REAPER so it will find the bridged Windows plugins.

Only native Linux VST plugins should be in your .vst and .vst3 folders.

[Philbo King]

Cool. Thanks!

Edit:
No luck. The only VSTs that show up after a Clear and Rescan are the ReaXxxx VSTs. I'll keep poking at it...
While scanning, I see various plugin names displayed (xxxxx.so), so I know it is finding them. Maybe they're getting blacklisted as it scans?

[Philbo King]

Having fiddled with this full time for a week, I think it's time to shelve the idea. I've tried to switch to Linux once every 5 years since 2000. This is the closest I've gotten. Maybe in 2025...

Thanks again for those who helped me out.

Time to get back to making music!

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Philbo King

Having fiddled with this full time for a week, I think it's time to shelve the idea. I've tried to switch to Linux once every 5 years since 2000. This is the closest I've gotten. Maybe in 2025...

Thanks again for those who helped me out.

Time to get back to making music!

If the VST plugins you were trying to make work were commercial plugins with installers, then they need to be installed just like you would do in Windows, except installed in WINE.

To get Superior Drummer, EZ-Keys, Kontakt, Arturia MiniMoog V, and some others installed and working in Linux, I had to install them, exactly like I would do in Windows. Once they are installed in WINE, then you would run the convert program from LinVST.

If the plugins were freebee .dll only kind of plugs, you still need a functioning WINE setup for them to run on, but no installers are needed and the .dlls can just be copied to,

~/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/VSTPlugins/

and then run LinVST convert.

Anyway, some clarification in case you decide to try again sometime.

[JamesPeters]

Getting Windows VST plugins working can be done. Lots of people have done it. A bit of patience and you'll get it. (I don't use any Windows software at all though, so I'm not one to know enough to help. But there are threads on this forum about it, and Linuxmusicans forums, etc.)

If your primary concern is using Windows software in Linux, I don't see a point in using Linux when you can use Windows. That's my general perspective, anyway.

Don't expect Linux to "just work with Windows software" natively ever. That's not one of its goals. You will have to do the work to make it do that. Well by "work" I mean figure out how to use Wine (etc.) and configure it. It would be like expecting Macs to "just" run Windows software natively in OSX. Nobody seems to think of it that way, but it's exactly the same kind of expectation. It seems some people think of Linux as a "Windows wannabe" or "half-baked Windows replacement" though, on some level.

Have you considered substituting your Windows-based plugins with Linux ones? There are a lot more Linux VST plugins (and JS plugins, which work in Reaper on any OS) these days. You might find suitable substitutes.

[Philbo King]

I did get an install of Windows Reaper running in Wine, so I suspect Wine wotks. I may spend tomorrow morning at trying the suggestion.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect everything to 'just work'. I once built a Z80 computer from scratch, soldering in the chips, writing an assembler in machine code, then writing BIOS, BDOS and a word processor using my assembler that ran under CP/M. So I'm quite familiar with endless tweaking.

But I'm not going to live forever, and do have a lot of music left to record, so I'll need to budget my time and efforts accordingly.

[JamesPeters]

I understand and in that case may I recommend Windows.

If you are wondering about potential substitutes for plugins, list them here. Some of us might have recommendations.

I meant in general that I don't think it's going to get noticeably easier to run Windows software in Linux in the future. I think this is about as good as it's going to get for ease of use in that regard, unless something changes a lot in terms of Linux development, which I do not expect.

[Philbo King]

Yeah, I expect you're right. Since I do some collaborative work, I didn't want to be stranded (plugin-wise) on my own desert island. See y'all again in 2025. And thanks!

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Philbo King

Yeah, I expect you're right. Since I do some collaborative work, I didn't want to be stranded (plugin-wise) on my own desert island. See y'all again in 2025. And thanks!

Actually Phil, having had dual boot Xubuntu/Win7 for two years, I can tell you firsthand that I can open projects that were created on either platform. I also collaborate with a friend 1200 miles away who runs REAPER for Windows.

If I open an old project created in Windows that had Kontakt, Superior Drummer 2 and some other Windows plugins like PSP Vintage Warmer, Etc., the projects open fine for me in REAPER for Linux.

Likewise, if I saved a project created in REAPER for Linux with those same plugins, it would open in Windows fine provided the plugins were present.

This is all contingent on getting your Windows plugins working in WINE and bridged with LinVST so that REAPER for Linux sees them.

[JamesPeters]

In any case I don't see what's going to be different in 5 years.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

In any case I don't see what's going to be different in 5 years.

For me, I had Windows plugins working pretty quick. It was tuning other stuff to get real real low latency that took some back and forth with the group. I first had EZ-Drummer working on 08/06/2018, but needed help getting low latency. Since then I switched to LinVST and have all the Windows plugins I used regularly working in Linux.

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...4&postcount=37

[PMan]

I don't have a crystal ball, but the future looks bright!

- 21 April 2020: “Linux 5.8 To Properly Support The RME Babyface Pro High-End Audio Hardware” from https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...E-Babyface-Pro

- 18 February 2020: “Linux 5.7 Picking Up Support For A High-End USB-C Audio Interface” (the Presonus 1810c) from https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...us-1810c-USB-C

- 23 March 2019: “Linux To Add Support For The MOTU 8Pre Digital Audio Workstation Hardware” from https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...x-Audio-Coming

- 22 January 2019 “Linux Picking Up Support For The Fireface UCX High-End Professional Audio Solution” from https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...face-UCX-Linux

These are all additions to the Linux kernal, so they will affect all flavors of Linux. Each article has a link to the actual patch in git.kernal.org so I would say it's legit...

I've been meaning to post these news snippets... I always think about it when I'm not logged into this forum.

[JamesPeters]

Audio device support being added to the kernel isn't a surprise. What *would* be a surprise: if any of these manufacturers of devices made Linux control panel apps for their devices so that all their features would work (including RME's routing and onboard DSP etc.) You'll notice a distinct lack of that happening.

Also having an audio device working in Linux isn't quite the kind of thing we're talking about here. Having Windows plugins and other Windows software work in Linux as though it's Windows (without any hassle of setting it up, troubleshooting, configuring, etc.)--that's a totally different thing, and probably will not improve. Linux is just a different OS from Windows. The fact it can run Windows software at all is amazing, especially when you compare that to other OSes (I mean, no one expects to run Mac software on Windows or vice versa, right? It's always that Linux "should run Windows software" for some reason?) That's what I mean about the "See y'all again in 2025" comment. It's doubtful things will change in the way he expects they might.

Anyway...

Originally Posted by PMan

- 23 March 2019: “Linux To Add Support For The MOTU 8Pre Digital Audio Workstation Hardware” from https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...x-Audio-Coming

Quoting from that page: "The hardware itself is more than one decade old and in fact the manufacturer already discontinued the product, but with Linux 5.2 the kernel will be supporting this device."

I wouldn't exactly feel like dancing in the streets about this sort of thing, as much as some people will appreciate the addition of support to the kernel.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

It's always that Linux "should run Windows software" for some reason?

It already runs all the Windows software I need it to run, which is like 15-20 VST/VSTi plugins and two or three Windows applications.

[JamesPeters]

Sigh. That's not my point. Yes it *can* run Windows software. But will it hold your hand? And why "should" it. It's a different OS. The fact you can make Windows software run on it at all should be considered amazing. But instead "give an inch, take a mile". Since Linux *can* run Windows software, the general expectation is why don't "the Linux people" make it so that Windows software "just works".

Before you post another response Glen, consider what I'm saying. You are running Windows plugins just fine. But you're willing to take some effort to do it (even if you don't think it's a lot of effort or learning). Philbo is not, and expects that Linux will be easier in this regard in a few years' time. That's doubtful at best. This is already probably as easy as it will get.

[Glennbo]

Hehe, maybe Justin will put REAPER on Steam, because Steam in the last couple years made it damn simple to run Windows games on Linux. Like click "install" and then it works with no user intervention making tweaks or .dll overrides.

Switching to Linux takes a commitment. I knew that going in, and when I hit obsticles like Kontakt not running because it needed wine-staging and a couple of .dll overrides, I didn't bail because I had decided long before that I was done with Windows, and going to make Linux work.

[PMan]

Edited....

[JamesPeters]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

Switching to Linux takes a commitment. I knew that going in, and when I hit obsticles like Kontakt not running because it needed wine-staging and a couple of .dll overrides, I didn't bail because I had decided long before that I was done with Windows, and going to make Linux work.

I felt the same way, except I knew I wouldn't have to use Windows software at all (but perhaps I'd learn some different software/plugins for Linux). I might eventually use Wine for something, so it's nice to know that it's there.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

I felt the same way, except I knew I wouldn't have to use Windows software at all (but perhaps I'd learn some different software/plugins for Linux). I might eventually use Wine for something, so it's nice to know that it's there.

I gotta have Kontakt and Superior Drummer 2. I use Superior on every project as a fancy metronome before recording real drums, and Kontakt is my strings, horns, pianos, and a few other things that I need for composing.

The fact that the stock ticker I wrote in a Windows programming language also works in WINE is a plus too.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

I gotta have Kontakt

At the time being, are you REALLY happy with running Kontakt (and other Windows VSTs) in Linux ?

I would like to convert my live Reaper "instrument" to Linux, but I still am rather reluctant, as ling as Cockos does not provide "official" / automatic support for this.

Thanks,
-Michael

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by mschnell

At the time being, are you REALLY happy with running Kontakt (and other Windows VSTs) in Linux ?

I would like to convert my live Reaper "instrument" to Linux, but I still am rather reluctant, as ling as Cockos does not provide "official" / automatic support for this.

Thanks,
-Michael

For my needs, Kontakt and other Windows VSTi's all work exactly like they did for me in Windows. No difference. I use Kontakt for adding horn sections, strings, pianos, and other parts to tracks of real instruments. A typical project would be like the last one I put up, which you can see the last 5 tracks were individual instances of Kontakt for piano, strings, and a horn section.

[JamesPeters]

Originally Posted by mschnell

At the time being, are you REALLY happy with running Kontakt (and other Windows VSTs) in Linux ?

I would like to convert my live Reaper "instrument" to Linux, but I still am rather reluctant, as ling as Cockos does not provide "official" / automatic support for this.

Cockos will never provide support for running Windows VST in Reaper for Linux. You may say "you don't know that" but yes I do. That's because they don't support using Windows VST in OSX, or vice versa. They also don't support using LV2 plugins in Windows (let alone in Linux at the moment). That's not their job. It's a completely different operating system. Either you're going to use any of the free and open-source bridging solutions that are available, or you'll just keep using Windows.

[Jack Winter]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

I gotta have Kontakt and Superior Drummer 2. I use Superior on every project as a fancy metronome before recording real drums, and Kontakt is my strings, horns, pianos, and a few other things that I need for composing.

It's kind of ironic that SD is made with JUCE, so probably just a compile away from being native linux

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Jack Winter

It's kind of ironic that SD is made with JUCE, so probably just a compile away from being native linux

Maybe their copy protection scheme isn't as easy to port?

If it is, then I want them to compile it for Linux dammit!!!

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

Maybe their copy protection scheme isn't as easy to port?

Seemingly Reaper's is

-Michael