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Old 07-22-2021, 05:33 AM   #1
Rednroll
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Default Really Confused on where items get stored when customizing a theme

I customized a theme starting with someone else's theme where I would really like to put all the pieces into a single container package so that if/when I need to restore that theme, I can just drop it into the C:\Reaper (x64)\InstallData\ColorThemes\ directory, install it and everything is back to where it was.

I'm really confused on where Reaper stores all these individual pieces of information when customizing a theme and then on how to best put all those pieces together into a single container package.

Here's where my confusion resides.
The theme I started with has a *.ReaperTheme file inside of its content folder.
This folder also contains the rtconfig.txt file which seems to be the main script file that contains code that defines the entire layout of the theme. I've also performed some edits on this file.

In Reaper when I customize this theme I've been using "Show theme tweak/configuration window" script from the Actions menu. These adjustment settings get saved to another *.ReaperTheme file located under
C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\ColorThem es\MyAdjustments.ReaperTheme

When making a single combined package, do I replace the original theme's *.ReaperTheme file with my modified one, or do they some how need to be combined into a single *.ReaperTheme file?

Will I need to further edit the RTConfig.txt file of that theme to reflect these changes of the updated *.ReaperTheme file reference?

In Reaper when I select TRACK LAYOUT>TRACK PANEL and change to a different Track panel, where do these changes get saved? Do I need to further edit the RTConfig.txt file to define that as the now default track panel?

When I create custom toolbars in Reaper, where do these adjustment settings get saved? Can they be saved within the theme? What about the docking layout adjustments of these custom toolbars, where does that info get saved?

Then there's the "Theme Adjuster/Color Control" adjustment settings. Where do these adjustments get saved and can I include them into the combined theme package?

So I did all these types of theme adjustments and when I started up Reaper everything launch as I last set them. I then had to restore my C: Drive to a previous backup HDD image prior to making all these adjustments. Before I did that, I made sure to make a backup of the contents of the following 2 folders.

C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\ColorThem es\
C:\Reaper (x64)\InstallData\ColorThemes\

Then I restored my system to a previous HDD image. I wanted to create a combined package theme file to place in the Reaper install directory ColorTheme folder, but so far I have been very unsuccessful in getting back to where I was when trying to do so.

Please help!

Last edited by Rednroll; 07-22-2021 at 05:52 AM.
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Old 07-22-2021, 06:49 AM   #2
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You are correct, some files are stored in different places.

When developing (or modifying) a Theme, I unzip it, then load that unzipped version of the Theme into Reaper.

Some settings (like those found in the "Theme Development/Tweaker") are stored in the .ReaperTheme theme file. Others are stored in the directory named the same as that .ReaperTheme file.

Themes specify where their images are located via the Layout Commands.

Example:

Layout 'layout name goes here' 'layout directory name goes here'

When a particular Layout is selected, it's settings will override the default Theme settings and images will be loaded from the sub-directory (i.e. 'layout directory name goes here'). If a sub-directory is not specified, images will be loaded from the Themes default directory (the same one that contains the rtconfig.txt file)

Some colors are set in the .ReaperTheme file and others are set in the rtconfig.txt file.

It was helpful to me to read all the forum posts about Themes paying attention to whatever WhiteTie writes... also, reading the SDK for Themes is very helpful. There is a PDF floating around somewhere that covers Theme development and 'Pink' rules, but I don't have that link handy.

Feel free to download my iCandy Reaper Theme, unzip it, and take a look at how I did it. I used almost every trick known to make that Theme. There are examples covering (almost) every aspect of Theme development in there if you look close enough - including Macros and deep system calls.

Hope this helps.

Larry
(creator of the ICandy Reaper Theme)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNmh2zTb1f4

Last edited by LarrySeyer; 07-22-2021 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 07-22-2021, 10:01 AM   #3
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Larry, thanks for your response. I had previously downloaded the SDK and read quite a few of Whitetie's post. Haven't dug into the SDK, kind of hoping I won't have to dig that far into it to do the few things more that I'ld like to achieve.

I will definitely check out your theme, sounds like it will be a great resource for the way I prefer to learn. I like to look at other's work, try to best understand what they had done and make my personal mods from there.

One quick question. I was able to get back 90% of where I was previously by loading my created *.ReaperTheme file after loading the original theme folder and then making some adjustments inside of Reaper. The one thing I lost were all my custom created toolbars. I'll likely just go back and recreate them. However, would like to know if the custom created tool bars can be included as part of the theme package? If they are, then I'll dig into learning how to do that after recreating what I lost.
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Old 07-22-2021, 03:16 PM   #4
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OK, so lots of very fundamental things you're not getting correct. Things like this directory:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
C:\Reaper (x64)\InstallData\ColorThemes\
...being the wrong folder. You have no need to ever do anything in that folder.

What you need are the three stickies in this forum: 1. How to use a REAPER theme, 2. Common tweaks to a REAPER theme and after you've read them (and only then!) read 3. Making a REAPER theme.


Quote:
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Haven't dug into the SDK, kind of hoping I won't have to dig that far into it to do the few things more that I'ld like to achieve... ...I like to look at other's work, try to best understand what they had done and make my personal mods from there.
This approach may have served you well elsewhere, but I can pretty much guarantee that it will kick you hard in the balls, when it comes to Reaper theming. It has been my experience that some people just never believe me on this, but I have now warned you and consider my duty done.
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Old 07-23-2021, 12:15 PM   #5
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OK, so lots of very fundamental things you're not getting correct. Things like this directory:

...being the wrong folder. You have no need to ever do anything in that folder.

What you need are the three stickies in this forum: 1. How to use a REAPER theme, 2. Common tweaks to a REAPER theme and after you've read them (and only then!) read 3. Making a REAPER theme.




This approach may have served you well elsewhere, but I can pretty much guarantee that it will kick you hard in the balls, when it comes to Reaper theming. It has been my experience that some people just never believe me on this, but I have now warned you and consider my duty done.
Thanks for your response. I read all the contents of your stickies. That doesn't mean I fully understood them. The problem I have understanding them is that they are written in a manner which includes many terms I am unfamiliar with. Therefore, I jump into trying things out to then get a better understanding of things with a more hands on approach, to then go back and re-read to see if I better understand the guides. I then come on the forum and ask questions with items I'm still struggling to understand but apparently my questions must be structured incorrectly since none of them received a answer but instead I've got the generic response of go read more instructions or read the same instructions I already read for a fifth time because obviously that fifth time reading it would have been where I broke down all the barriers and wouldn't have needed to ask any questions.

That doesn't work either in most cases. I've had a couple classes on basic learning obstacles, those "fundamental" obstacles includes the misunderstood word, lack of mass, and too steep of a gradient. So I'm able to identify the reasons I'm unable to grasp the full content of a guide. I'm at a point in struggling with all 3 of those obstacles. While your guides are useful, they definitely lack "mass", ie there's no images included to demonstrate to what you are actually referring too and I therefore am creating my own mass by doing the hands on work. Just because, I ask questions that doesn't mean I haven't read your guides, on the contrary I've read them multiple times. That just means I don't yet fully understand everything in them. Sorry, I haven't cracked open the SDK yet, I will get right on that.....and try my best to not have any questions while I'm doing so, since I know the assumption will be made that I didn't read through it if I didn't fully grasp everything.

Also the reason I was in that folder was because I read the instructions on multiple reference themes which instructed to place the theme in that folder. Maybe I read too much before asking questions? Because I didn't accidentally stumble my way into that folder by myself out of a whim. That I know for certain.

Last edited by Rednroll; 07-23-2021 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 07-23-2021, 04:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
I read all the contents of your stickies.
You are asking questions about things that are directly referenced in the documentation. You do not need to 'crack open' the SDK, its just 3 web pages; links are in the stickies.

Very first thing at the very top of the Theme Development SDK:

Code:
top  REAPER Theme Structure

REAPER uses themes to customize its appearance. These themes usually exist in your REAPER application data directory, such as:

    C:\Users\your username\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\ColorThemes (Windows Vista and later)
    /Users/your username/Library/Application Support/REAPER/ColorThemes (OSX)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
While your guides are useful, they definitely lack "mass", ie there's no images included to demonstrate to what you are actually referring too
Both my guides are full of images.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
Also the reason I was in that folder was because I read the instructions on multiple reference themes which instructed to place the theme in that folder.
That is not, nor has it ever been, the way themes work.

I am here to help, and to help beyond telling people to just read the documentation. But do you need to actually read the documentation.
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Old 07-24-2021, 05:21 AM   #7
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Quote:
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I'm really confused on where Reaper stores all these individual pieces of information when customizing a theme and then on how to best put all those pieces together into a single container package.
Settings changed in the Theme Tweaker are saved to the "MyTheme.ReaperTheme" file.
Settings in the Theme Adjuster are save to an .INI file in the main Reaper folder.
Custom Toolbar images should be stored in the image folder for the theme.
Settings for custom toolbars are likely saved to a custom .INI file in the Reaper folder.
Custom Scripts are located in Reaper/Scripts folder.

All Reaper custom settings can be exported to a file for backup/restore.

My suggestion is to start using a portable install unless you need whatever benefit the normal 'install' brings.
A portable install has everything inside the main reaper folder and makes backup/restore much simpler.

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Old 07-25-2021, 07:49 AM   #8
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Thank you Lucas!

Exactly what I needed to know.
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Old 07-25-2021, 09:03 AM   #9
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Priceless
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Old 08-01-2021, 06:23 AM   #10
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Default Theme different Zipped vs unzipped why?

Yes, I've read Whitetie's stickies where this is outlined in Sticky Guide #2. However, I'm seeing different and unexpected results of when a theme is zipped vs unzipped and I'm baffled as to the reason why?

This is the reason I posted previously asking where Reaper stores all the theme resources since I was observing different results as what was being described in the guides. Since then, I decided to install Reaper as a portable install so everything was contained under the same folder.

I've been using the Commala_RS theme as my starting reference point to add further customization. I want to further customize it by altering the Rtconfig.txt file as well as some of the theme's images.

Therefore, I am unzipping the "Default_Commala_5_RS.ReaperThemeZip" file and seeing the expected theme content folder and the "Default_Commala_RS.ReaperTheme" file as described.

However, now when I open up Reaper the theme looks almost completely different and I'm struggling to understand the reason why?

Here's what I'm seeing.

Resource Folder contents prior to unzipped theme


Commala RS theme in Reaper when zipped. (This is what I want as starting point)


Resource Folder contents after unzipping theme


Commala RS theme in Reaper when Unzipped. (Not what I want)


Any idea what's going on here and what I need to change to get Reaper to look like the Top theme skin while having the theme unzipped so I can further customize it?

Last edited by Rednroll; 08-01-2021 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 08-01-2021, 08:05 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Priceless
Now this may help you understand the reason I created this post and the confusion I ran into.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=256098

I used Reaper's Export Configuration under the Preference General Tab to move Reaper to a portable install.

When I use the Options>Show Reaper Resource path it displays the Reaper portable install folder location as described in your guides. Under that install is the "ColorThemes" folder and moved into that folder was the custom theme I had been working on....additionally as described in your guides. I also observed the Commala RS theme was placed under my C:\Programs Portable\Reaper\Color Themes folder after I completed the import of the file I saved during the export.

Therefore, this tells me "C:\Users\your username\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\ColorThemes" is not always valid since it will depend if the user is working with a portable install vs a non portable install and therefore, there are likely other user guides which I previously read which may be different depending on that users particular installation.

To verify my portable install was no longer looking at "C:\Users\your username\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\ColorThemes", I then deleted my C:\Users\your username\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\
folder, and my theme continued to load properly in the portable installation.

Prior to moving to the portable install I had originally been attempting to make my alterations in the folder C:\Users\your username\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\ColorThemes just as your guide describes.

Where when I did so, I observed the exact same problem as the new discussion thread displays. The theme was now different after unzipping it.

I've also read multiple other discussions where you have described a theme does not need to be put into a *.RepearThemeZip file. This is also mentioned in your guides and further describes Reaper places a priority on loading a theme which is not in that single file Zip folder. Yet that currently has not been my experience while working on this particular Commala_RS theme and is the reason I started this thread in an attempt to clear up my confusion.

Now if there's anything else you could point me towards within your guides which explains this possible difference of expected behavior of a zipped vs unzipped theme, that would be useful. I just completed going through your guide in a step by step manner as well as reading through the included additional links yet I am still experiencing a difference in the appearance of the theme when zipped vs unzipped.

My original assumption was that Reaper was looking at another folder which I was unable to identify because the theme now looked totally different with different images after performing the unzip operation and is the reason I started this discussion. However, it seems you wanted to continue to assume I had not even read the general guides. Sorry, but your guides were not aligning with what I was experiencing.

Last edited by Rednroll; 08-01-2021 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 08-01-2021, 08:07 AM   #12
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Seems like the theme is not finding the correct image resources, so it's defaulting to built-in images. Open the theme tweaker and see what the image resource path is.

Naming consistency is a good thing. The Default Commala RS theme in the stash has actually Default_Commala_5_RS_unpacked resource folder and Default_Commala_5_RS.ReaperTheme theme file. And the latter has Default_Commala_5_2016.ReaperThemeZip as the image resource path. Would it be my theme, all those names would be the same.
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Old 08-01-2021, 08:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Seems like the theme is not finding the correct image resources, so it's defaulting to built-in images. Open the theme tweaker and see what the image resource path is.

Naming consistency is a good thing. The Default Commala RS theme in the stash has actually Default_Commala_5_RS_unpacked resource folder and Default_Commala_5_RS.ReaperTheme theme file. And the latter has Default_Commala_5_2016.ReaperThemeZip as the image resource path. Would it be my theme, all those names would be the same.
Thank you! Those paths to the images should be defined under the rsconfig.txt file correct? So that's where I should start to begin editing to get this working properly when the Commala_RS theme is unzipped after I identify their current paths using the theme tweaker as you described?

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Old 08-01-2021, 09:20 AM   #14
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xpander got it. That is someone else's edit of the theme 'Default Commala' and they've done something ill-advised with the folder naming.

I strongly recommend not using other themes as learning materials because you will have no way of knowing why that themer made certain decisions, and whether what they were doing was a good idea or not.
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Old 08-01-2021, 09:25 AM   #15
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it seems you wanted to continue to assume I had not even read the general guides.
Correct. I stand by that. Do you feel that having an argument about it will be productive?
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Old 08-01-2021, 09:36 AM   #16
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Correct. I stand by that. Do you feel that having an argument about it will be productive?
Not at all. Was never looking for an argument to begin with. I was looking for some advise after spending a lot of time and not understanding why I was seeing different results. I now understand those different results were likely tied to the theme I was starting with and not tied to my lack of reading the guides.
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Old 08-01-2021, 09:45 AM   #17
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xpander got it. That is someone else's edit of the theme 'Default Commala' and they've done something ill-advised with the folder naming.

I strongly recommend not using other themes as learning materials because you will have no way of knowing why that themer made certain decisions, and whether what they were doing was a good idea or not.
May be a good idea to add a note to the guides, since it currently states most start with a user created theme which is close to what you want and make personal tweaks from there. That's what I did. I guess I was just unfortunate enough to start with using one that made ill advised altercations. I'm glad we were able to clear up the confusion I was experiencing even while following the starter guides. Likely means I may have to go back and redo most of the adjustments I already made or figure out how to undo the ill advised changes to the original base theme.

May look for another version of the Commala theme as my starting point as well. I just picked the one which had the look I was after on its default loadup.

I think I understand now how to verify if ill advised changes were made by unzipping the theme and verifying if it looks the same after doing so.

Last edited by Rednroll; 08-01-2021 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 08-01-2021, 09:48 AM   #18
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I now understand those different results were likely tied to the theme I was starting with and not tied to my lack of reading the guides.
No that's not correct. Pleases try to read my tone as trying to be helpful, not antagonistic. You're still not understanding, you're in a muddle and are saying that you've read all these posts and all these guides and whatever and what I'm saying is don't do that!. Everything you need to know is right here, first section at the very top, theme structure.

Just read that. Just the top section. Then it won't matter that your source theme is a bit weird, because you will know better.
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:00 AM   #19
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Do you mean the WALTER guide? That assumes a basic understanding of pre-WALTER Reaper theming, as it says. The problem you have had is unrelated to WALTER, much older and more fundamental, the basic structure of a theme. As I say in the sticky:

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
new themes still use the same theming facilities that old themes relied on. Additional layers of increasingly powerful theming functionality have been added onto the top as time has gone by, each relying on the existence of (and your understanding of) the preceding functionality.
I'm sorry if this comes across as me trying to deflect responsibility, but I want you to grasp this because you still haven't understood how to solve your problem. The news is good, better than you think! You don't need to start again. You just have to change your theme path. And for that you need to go back to the very basics. here.
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:07 AM   #20
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Well to be fair I started with using the tweak inside of Reaper as outlined in your guides. Most of that went well, except it created another *.reapertheme file while doing so. I touched on this in my original post, mentioning my confusion of dealing with these multiple .ReaperTheme files.

Where I ran into problems was when I unzipped it and then started to make rtconfig.txt and image edits. I was unable to put all the pieces back together into a single theme zip file and have it work as expected. However, I found along that process if I zipped it back up with those rtconfig.txt and image edits then things were ok where I just needed to do an additional step of installing my personal .reaperTheme file following the install of my now altered theme which contained the theme contents folder.

Here's where I originally tried to describe this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post

Here's where my confusion resides.
The theme I started with has a *.ReaperTheme file inside of its content folder.
This folder also contains the rtconfig.txt file which seems to be the main script file that contains code that defines the entire layout of the theme. I've also performed some edits on this file.

In Reaper when I customize this theme I've been using "Show theme tweak/configuration window" script from the Actions menu. These adjustment settings get saved to another *.ReaperTheme file located under
C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\ColorThem es\MyAdjustments.ReaperTheme

When making a single combined package, do I replace the original theme's *.ReaperTheme file with my modified one, or do they some how need to be combined into a single *.ReaperTheme file?
So to be more concise here's what I actually had in regards to *.ReaperTheme files
1. "Default_Commala_5_RS.ReaperTheme" located in "ColorThemes" folder after unzipping the ReaperThemeZip file
2. "Default_Commala_5_2016OSX.ReaperTheme", located inside of theme unzipped content folder
3. "My_Commala_5_.ReaperTheme" file, located inside of "ColorThemes" folder.

The last file seemed to contain all my personal theme adjustments using the "Show theme tweak/configuration window" script from the Actions menu.

I was trying to understand how to manage these 3 different files so all the settings were combined into a single *.ReaperTheme" file and did not understand which *.ReaperTheme file contained what information.

Last edited by Rednroll; 08-01-2021 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:27 AM   #21
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However, I found along that process if I zipped it back up with those rtconfig.txt and image edits then things were ok where I just needed to install my personal .reaperTheme file following the install of my now altered theme which contained the theme contents folder.
This is madness, you don't have to invoke some procedural ritual to make it work, you just have to understand the basic construction of a theme, and set it correctly.

Quote:
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Required knowledge : Unpacking a theme

In all likelihood, your theme is packed as a '.ReaperThemeZip' file, which Reaper can use directly. This is just a '.zip' file which has had its extension renamed. To tweak the theme, you are going to want to unpack it. All your active themes live in a folder. Find this folder by selecting 'Options > Show REAPER resource path in explorer/finder...' and opening the 'ColorThemes' folder.
  1. Find the '.ReaperThemeZip' theme file.
  2. Change its extension to '.ReaperTheme.Zip'
  3. Unzip it.

What you have unzipped should be : A theme file (.'ReaperTheme' extension) and a resource folder with, most likely, the name of the theme. These parts together are an unpacked Reaper theme. Please note that they should both be in the root ColorThemes folder, if your zip program has put them in a new folder then move them into the root.

If you would like a walkthrough of these steps, follow all but the last part of the helper in 'Step 1 : Open the rtconfig.txt file' here.

If Reaper finds a packed theme and an unpacked theme with the same name, you'll only see one theme in the theme selector. Choose it and what you'll see will be the unpacked theme, which Reaper will prioritise. Note : Some themes, such as the default themes, change name when they are unpacked.

An unpacked .ReaperTheme file can also reference a packed .ReaperThemeZip file as its resource folder, which can get... confusing This is most likely to happen if you use the 'Theme development/tweaker' on a packed theme file. Lets ignore that!
Note that "An unpacked .ReaperTheme file can also reference a packed .ReaperThemeZip file as its resource folder" bit.
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:40 AM   #22
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Still my most vital piece of advice, one day I'll come up with the magic words that convince people to actually follow it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Please try to resist the urge to start out by cloning an existing theme and tweaking it. This will be only one of a thousand ways the maker of that theme's decisions, which will be unknown to you, will trip you up.

Make a blank text file. Change its extension to ".Reaper Theme". Congratulations, you have now made a fully functional Reaper theme, it just doesn't change anything from the fallbacks. From there you can open the theme tweaker and start changing colours and fonts. Once you're bored of that (about 5mins I'd guess!) make an image resource path folder. Stick some images in. Maybe make a (blank!) rtconfig file and start throwing some commands at it. Once that starts making a kind of sense (another 30mins I'd guess) consider writing your first line of WALTER. After a couple of hours you should have a fair outline of what does what. At that point you can start pulling some other themes apart and copypasta a few bits into your theme. When things start getting weird (which will happen), you'll know why it was.
...I assert that anyone who takes an hour of their life to you follow that advice will come away with a deeper understanding of Reaper theming than most themers.
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Old 08-01-2021, 11:01 AM   #23
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...I assert that anyone who takes an hour of their life to you follow that advice will come away with a deeper understanding of Reaper theming than most themers.
Exactly what I did... great advice
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Old 08-01-2021, 02:12 PM   #24
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Ok, I think I'm all set now.

Original Graphic's folder was set to:
C:\Programs Portable\Reaper\ColorThemes\Default_Commala_5_2016 .ReaperThemeZip

Now Set to the Content folder:
C:\Programs Portable\Reaper\ColorThemes\Default_Commala_5_RS_u npacked

I now have the Commala Theme I started with setup, loading all the graphic files with my tweaks where there is now only one *.ReaperTheme file.

Confirmed it is now working as expected where theme is loading properly in a zipped or non zipped formats.



Now time to get to work on my planned RTConfig.txt and Image file modifications.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 08-01-2021, 02:25 PM   #25
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I'm sorry if this comes across as me trying to deflect responsibility, but I want you to grasp this because you still haven't understood how to solve your problem. The news is good, better than you think! You don't need to start again. You just have to change your theme path. And for that you need to go back to the very basics. here.
It's probably in the SDK which I haven't dug into yet but what would have been helpful for me is a high level description of the type of information which is typically contained in the *.ReaperTheme file and the RTConfig.txt file. I've been able to go through multiple RTConfig.txt files at this point and get a pretty good feel for what is in it, but the *.ReaperTheme file had me confused, I didn't realize it contained a path reference to the image files.

Additionally, what threw me for a loop is that I had been playing around with a very old Vegas Theme which I had saved from the pre Reaper v1.0 days and then I kept seeing similar Vegas type graphics popping up in my theme and was pretty confused where they were coming from. Wasn't aware of the default built in images as xpander described. I was busy searching my PC to delete any references to the Vegas theme I had previously been playing around with.

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Old 08-01-2021, 04:11 PM   #26
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You need to read the instructions. You have read the wrong thing. The instructions are in the sdk. HERE.

I understand you think the instructions should be in the WALTER guide, which you have read. But they aren't, because they pre-date it and theme structure isn't WALTER.

Its just a web page. Don't fear it. No digging required.
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Old 08-01-2021, 04:49 PM   #27
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You need to read the instructions. You have read the wrong thing. The instructions are in the sdk. HERE.

I understand you think the instructions should be in the WALTER guide, which you have read. But they aren't, because they pre-date it and theme structure isn't WALTER.

Its just a web page. Don't fear it. No digging required.
Ahhhh...that looks much easier to understand.

I originally downloaded your "WALTER: A themer's guide" version: 14 July 2012, which seemed a bit more involved than I felt I was ready for at this time.

I think the webpage you just shared with me, likely answers what was going to be my eventual next question in regards to transport customization. I was hoping to find a way to be able to add FF/REW seek buttons in addition to the already existing Prev/Next buttons but after browsing through that webpage guide that doesn't seem like it is possible and likely explains the reason I've only seen themes with the Prev/Next transport buttons and not FF/REW.
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Old 08-02-2021, 02:14 PM   #28
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Default Getting to know WALTER

Newb here who's just starting to learn WALTER.

So far I've been pretty successful understanding some of the syntax in an RTconfig.txt file I've been editing using the Walter SDK guide.
https://www.reaper.fm/sdk/walter/walter.php

However, I came across a line in the RTConfig.txt on the Commala theme I'm using as a starting point which has me confused due to the Syntax.

Code:
set tcp.pan.color trackpanmode==6 [123 184 135] [190 190 190 191 0 0 0 0]
I've been able to figure out that when I use a syntax such as
Code:
set tcp.pan.color [123 134 135]
This sets the color of the indicator line on the TCP pan control using the entered [R G B] values.

I also understand the 'trackpanmode==6' defines the pan type to be 6=dualpan.

I also understand "[190 190 190 191 0 0 0 0]" seems to follow the expression guide outlined in the SDK.

However, when that is all combined into a single line as in the original syntax, I seem to be having a difficult time understanding it. I tried playing around with the values inside of the brackets but so far everything I've entered I'm not seeing any changes take place in the theme to be able to identify what it is doing. I had assumed the "[190 190 190 191 0 0 0 0]" defined where the pan indicator line was placed with respect to the pan control image but that so far seems to be an incorrect assumption.

Can someone help a newb out and break this line down for me? There's many other lines of code structured in a similar manner and therefore I feel if I can get my head around what this line is doing, then it will be easier for me to understand the syntax of many other lines which are in this same RTconfig.txt file.

Last edited by Rednroll; 08-02-2021 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 08-02-2021, 04:10 PM   #29
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I strongly recommend against you doing what you are doing. Commola 5 is based on the v5 default theme, which is very complicated WALTER. This is an extremely challenging place to start. Also:

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Please try to resist the urge to start out by cloning an existing theme and tweaking it. This will be only one of a thousand ways the maker of that theme's decisions, which will be unknown to you, will trip you up.

Make a blank text file. Change its extension to ".Reaper Theme". Congratulations, you have now made a fully functional Reaper theme, it just doesn't change anything from the fallbacks. From there you can open the theme tweaker and start changing colours and fonts. Once you're bored of that (about 5mins I'd guess!) make an image resource path folder. Stick some images in. Maybe make a (blank!) rtconfig file and start throwing some commands at it. Once that starts making a kind of sense (another 30mins I'd guess) consider writing your first line of WALTER. After a couple of hours you should have a fair outline of what does what. At that point you can start pulling some other themes apart and copypasta a few bits into your theme. When things start getting weird (which will happen), you'll know why it was.
In answer to your question, you should read the section on polish notation, page 11 in WALTER : A themer's guide. trackpanmode==6, for example, does not define anything, it is a condition that yields two answers.
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Old 08-02-2021, 06:50 PM   #30
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Thanks, makes more sense to me now. It's syntax is similar to an IF/THEN/ELSE statement.....just without the inclusion of the IF, THEN, and ELSE commands.

There's no turning back for me now on the commala altercations. I use a lot of comment statements when I make any alterations including a note of the original values in case I broke anything along the way, I can start changing values back to where they were. I've got the majority of the Commala rtconfig.txt file commented and divided into function section blocks at this point, where I feel I currently have a pretty good grasp of what is going on in this config file. Yes, it was a bit disappointing when I learned it was v5.0 theme but seemed to use different commands for formatting the TCP than the great tutorial you wrote up using the Default 5 Reaper theme since that is exactly what I'm currently trying to modify in the commala theme. If there was a tutorial on how to do this type of stuff in this commala theme which looks similar in many aspects to the v6.0 Reaper theme command syntax, it would be great!
http://www.houseofwhitetie.com/reape...dit_def_5.html

I'm an EE, pretty good at reverse engineering and complicated is what I do. Wouldn't have it any other way. I'm not a coder but familiar enough to be dangerous with code flow processes. What I'm unfamiliar with are the commands and syntax of those commands in WALTER. Once, I get more familiar with those commands and their syntax, I'll be fine but I appreciate your concerns. I'm not looking to build something from the ground up, especially when Commala already provides me about 80% of what I'm trying to achieve and I don't see much career benefits learning all this outside of customizing Reaper to be closer to my preferences.

Last edited by Rednroll; 08-02-2021 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 08-03-2021, 01:03 AM   #31
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it was a bit disappointing when I learned it was v5.0 theme
My mistake, it is based on the much older Commala reskin of the Version 4 theme. That is a much easier theme, though the polish notation is annoyingly layered and you are likely going to learn some bad habits using 'reverse_margin'.

Please remember that I advised you not to learn theming this way. I shall be displeased if you blame me for certain difficulties you may have.
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Old 08-03-2021, 04:18 PM   #32
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My mistake, it is based on the much older Commala reskin of the Version 4 theme. That is a much easier theme, though the polish notation is annoyingly layered and you are likely going to learn some bad habits using 'reverse_margin'.

Please remember that I advised you not to learn theming this way. I shall be displeased if you blame me for certain difficulties you may have.
Well I'm getting into the home stretch which will be my most challenging part of rearranging, and resizing the TCP layout. Then also onto replacing the TCP pan knob with a pan slider fader. After that I'm pretty much done and it's all custom toolbar and toolbar icon creations.

Speaking of pan sliders, what's up with all these themes using pan control knobs? Sure they look good but when you're trying to adjust panning with a mouse, it just doesn't work very well. That's also one of the biggest gripes I read when doing a Google search while looking for a Reaper reference 5.0+ theme which included TCP pan sliders, lots of posts not liking those pan knobs in the Reaper 5 and 6 default themes. Something you may want to take into consideration for your next Reaper Default theme creation.

Try not being so negative and look at the bright side. Once I complete all this, you won't be hearing me complain about how awful Reaper's user interface is out of the box any longer and I'll be sharing my configuration with others who have made those same comments.

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Old 09-16-2021, 10:13 AM   #33
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Default Help with WALTER MCP Slider Dual Pan modes

I'm really struggling trying to better format the layout of my pan sliders and their associated labels when the Pan mode is set to >=4

I tried to find more details in the Walter themer's guide SDK to help me along but the information which is included on page 28 didn't get me any further.

Here's what my current problem looks like, see dual pan sliders on MCP tracks 2 and 3. Single Pan slider on Track 1 I have pretty much set where I like it, other than adjusting the label so it's closer to the pan slider adjustment.



Here's my current code for those pan sliders.

Code:
set sml [260]
set mcp.pan.fadermode [0] ;[0]=Slider [1]=knob ; Pan Slider
	
set mcp.pan h_der{x}<sml{x} [0] h_der{x}>300 [5 70 79 10 0 0 0 0] [5 55 79 10 0 0 0 0]
set mcp.pan h_der{x}<sml{x} [0] trackpanmode>=4 [0 55 79 10 0 0 0 0]

set mcp.pan.label h_der{x}<sml{x} [0] h_der{x}>300 [31 89 41 16 0 0 0 0] [31 74 41 16 0 0 0 0]
set mcp.pan.label h_der{x}<sml{x} [0] trackpanmode>=4 + mcp.pan.label [-20 0 1 0 0 0 0 0]
set mcp.pan.label.color trackpanmode==6 [117 156 125] [170 170 170] ; Dual Pan label colors
I'm really struggling to figure out how to adjust the entire layout of the Pan "Width" slider and the spacing between it and the top pan slider adjustment. So on track's 2&3, I need to move the Width adjustment slider down and get it centered in the MCP. Then extend and make narrower it's background image so it matches the top center slider image and I'm trying to do all this without impacting the pan slider on Track#1.

Help please! I've definitely reached my limit of current WALTER understanding with these dual pan sliders and am not finding the information I need to help make further progress.

Last edited by Rednroll; 09-16-2021 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 09-16-2021, 12:23 PM   #34
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I tried to find more details in the Walter themer's guide SDK to help me along but the information which is included on page 28 didn't get me any further.
That document is not the SDK. It is a guide. THIS is the SDK. In the SDK:

Code:
mcp.width: Width fader/knob
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Old 09-16-2021, 07:14 PM   #35
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That document is not the SDK. It is a guide. THIS is the SDK. In the SDK:

Code:
mcp.width: Width fader/knob
Yes, I've been referencing that SDK as well. Got the naming terminology backwards in my communications.

I guess I'm further confused now. mcp.width seems to set the fader type "fader/knob". I currently have the fader and pan controls set to the proper type (both are sliders). I'm having difficulty understanding how to best go about positioning the 2nd Pan slider when a dual pan control is active.


If that information is within the SDK, then can you point out to me which parts I need to look at?


That defined command in the SDK would be this?

set mcp.width [0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0]

And those values is what would adjust my 2nd pan slider position and size? Not making much sense to me the reason mcp.width would be the adjustment command for a pan slider control and how I would have been able to determine that by looking through the SDK....but ok, I'll give that a try.

The left MCP is what I have, the right MCP is what I'm trying to achieve.

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Old 09-16-2021, 09:22 PM   #36
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I get it now. It's named mcp.width because it's the dual pan "width" adjustment. That's not confusing at all. LOL!
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Old 09-17-2021, 01:09 AM   #37
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I tried to find more details in the Walter themer's guide SDK to help me along but the information which is included on page 28 didn't get me any further.
Right there on p28:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
I get it now. It's named mcp.width because it's the dual pan "width" adjustment. That's not confusing at all. LOL!
Why LOL? I don't understand why you're finding these very basic things so difficult. If you mouseover the control, the tooltip says 'width', because its the width control.

Do not learn theming by modifying an existing theme. You will get bogged down in that theme's approach, and what might take an hour to learn will confuse you for months. Looking at your post history, you seem to be finding theming particularly difficult, its been a long time since anyone has asked so many questions about misunderstandings of fundamental concepts. Much of what you appear to have learned is not entirely correct. I urge you to change your approach to the one I recommend; your way would appear not to be working for you.
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Old 09-17-2021, 01:15 AM   #38
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Looking further into your post history, I see that I've already told you this at least once. Perhaps the time has come to consider believing me? Learn the basics of theming by starting with a blank theme, just for an hour or two. This works, trust me. To do otherwise is, by my perception, to intentionally be doing things in hard mode, which by all means do if you wish, but it does rather make helping you feel a bit pointless.
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Old 09-19-2021, 09:22 AM   #39
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Right there on p28:




Why LOL? I don't understand why you're finding these very basic things so difficult. If you mouseover the control, the tooltip says 'width', because its the width control.

Do not learn theming by modifying an existing theme. You will get bogged down in that theme's approach, and what might take an hour to learn will confuse you for months. Looking at your post history, you seem to be finding theming particularly difficult, its been a long time since anyone has asked so many questions about misunderstandings of fundamental concepts. Much of what you appear to have learned is not entirely correct. I urge you to change your approach to the one I recommend; your way would appear not to be working for you.
I couldn't disagree more. It's pretty obvious when I look at your post history that when others ask these "basic" or even less than basic questions than what I'm asking is that you seem to be much more helpful where it becomes pretty obvious you seem to have a personal axe to grind with me.

It's also obvious you don't get it, you're unable to step outside of your programming mind to even consider there could be some confusion in the terminology. So let me explain it to you. There is a stereo pan mode and a "dual" pan mode. The Dual Pan has no mention of "Width" as you tried to describe in your condescending tone since it's a Pan Left and Pan Right adjustment control but some how in all your wisdom must have decided "mcp.width" "tcp.width" to describe a pan control would make sense to everyone where the word "width" is also a measurement term where much of the information also included is about "size" elements which include "Height" and "Width" descriptions where there are no inclusions of the word "Pan" along with it. Hell, Pan.width or anything else which included the actual word Pan would have made sense so when people are searching for a particular command in the SDK or guide which would control a "Pan" adjustment, they would start performing a search on the word "Pan" and NOT the word "Width". The only ones mcp.width makes sense to are folks who have been theming for years and definitely not someone like myself who comes from more of an audio background.

Your lack of understanding of "basic" audio and DAW workflow methods all shows in the themes you have created since they often look pretty and are coded in manners to show off your knowledge in that theming area but "basic" DAW workflow scenarios have been left out or discarded which were included in previous Reaper themes.

Yeah...I'm struggling so much with my theming efforts for not following "YOUR" way of learning. You must have also ignored the part where I described to you when you originally made that statement that the only places I tend to struggle when learning a new program language is identifying the actual commands and syntax format. Thus my struggles of not being able to identify the command "width" was some how obvious to everyone that it was assigned to a Pan control. Give me a break. With all my supposed struggles, I just finished Waltering and Polish Notating the hell out of original Commala theme and I fixed many items that weren't working properly along the way.

If you don't wish to assist me with my "basic" questions, that's fine. Knowbody is forcing you. Thankfully, there are other users on this forum who are more willing to share some of their experience and I would rather have that discussion with them since they don't seem to have a sharp stick stuck up their behinds.

Here check out the highlights of my recent efforts. With all that expert theming knowledge you have, I'm certain you could appreciate the understanding of the code and Polish notation which is going on here to make this function this way. Oh and it includes Pan Sliders and Knob options, and being able to expand meters and faders on screen so you can actually read and adjust to more precise values with those items, something Reaper seems to have lost along the way of it's more recent default themes created by the theming gurus but something often desired by actual audio knowledgeable folks.

How about a little credit where credit is due? Oh...and nothing has blown up yet which I haven't been able to solve, only having struggles identifying a few command terms which are supposedly obvious to everyone. Sorry for asking my question. If doing my approach of theme learning and asking questions is going to bother you so much, then don't bother to read or respond to them if this is going to cause you so much grief. Your bare minimal and vague responses aren't very helpful anyways. The only thing your response did was get me to look closer at the mcp.width command. Nothing in the guide or SDK was very useful. What was useful was looking at Commala's mcp.width command code lines,and adjusting their parameters values to see what they did. Doing it your way I wouldn't have had a good code base to learn from to actually understand how to use it. If that doesn't work for you then too bad. I'm not asking you to write my theme for me nor would I want you to after trying out a few of your themes and experiencing just how cumbersome they are to work in. However, unlike yourself I will give credit where credit is due, some of them do look "pretty".

Last edited by Rednroll; 09-19-2021 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 09-19-2021, 10:34 AM   #40
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I am perfectly okay with you not following my advice, please be my guest. Its a bit silly to assume I have a grievance against you, I hadn't even realised it was you I had responded to before. If someone asks basic questions it is no judgement to assume they are learning the basics. If they keep asking basic questions, its no judgement to assume that things aren't going very well. If I recommend a change of approach, that's because that's how I see it.

I am sorry you think I have a sharp stick up my behind. Perhaps, on reflection, you will realise that I am trying to help you the best way I know how. I am not a programmer. I did not create WALTER, but it is the first scripting 'language' I ever learned. I wrote most of the WALTER of the theme that you are modifying. I do know what I am talking about. Try to calm down and hear this : you keep saying you are having trouble and finding this difficult. I know why. You are not the first to try it your way and find it difficult. You are proud because you have overcome some of these difficulties, and rightly so, but from my perspective I am very clear that you could face a lot fewer difficulties.

Please feel free to keep writing expansive threads about the troubles you are having if you wish, but please also be understanding when I will continue to respond in them, because this forum is a searchable online record of Reaper theming advice. The advice I am giving is, yes, for you, but its also for googlers in the future. If anyone say things that aren't correct, there is value in me correcting the record, please try not to take it personally.
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