Really nasty pop during playback

[eq1]

This doesn't seem latency or buffer related, it's like nothing I've heard before. Randomly, during playback of stereo audio in my browser or playback of a mix in REAPER, I got really really nasty pops out-of-the-blue, just a quick, but very loud, sounds-like-it's-gonna-ruin-my-monitors POP!

I've just migrated to a new-used computer, clean install of W7 OS, EMU 1616m PCI card to audio dock. No real problems with the install of the audio device, in fact, none, everything seemed to go without a hitch and seemed to be working...

I tried changing ASIO latency in REAPER, changed nothing. Tried adjusting down really low (3ms) no problems with that, no change. Adjusted media buffer up from 1000 to 1200 and then back down to 600, no problems, no change...


I guess I'm just wondering if anyone has a clue as to what kind of problem this might be?

It happened in the browser playing back via "WAV" (not sure what that is, WDM audio maybe), it happened in REAPER, I changed the ASIO buffer there to no effect, changed media buffer to no effect, so it seems like it has to be something deeper, the hardware itself, the hardware interaction with Windows. I'm not sure what kinds of problems can exist at that level...

It's not random pops due to external equipment, household wiring or the like, just not that kind of pop, the magnitude is much greater than your everyday RFI or light switch or whatever kind of interference...

Anyway, any input greatly appreciated, even if it's just a vague guess.

[eq1]

Here's a couple of my guesses at this point:

-I enabled the onboard audio yesterday, in the BIOS, which uses Microsoft drivers (onboard audio isn't important to me, but it can be useful once in a while). Before that I hadn't heard the loud POP, but I also hadn't used the computer a ton, maybe a couple hours-worth of audio playing. On the other hand, within only the 15 minutes or so of audio playback since then, I have heard the POP maybe a dozen times...

Anything about that that might cause the POP?

Now that I write this, that's my prime suspect. I was gonna say power settings - I know I have my PCI bus NOT set to max performance, but then, I wasn't getting the POP earlier with that same setting...

I'll try disabling the onboard audio and see if that changes anything...

Another guess was bad capacitors: I recall the EMU product, either the dock, the card, or both, can need capacitors replaced. Before now I've never used this PCI card before; rather, I've used a newer PCIe without issues. The new-used computer I got happened to have a PCI slot (go figure, it's newer than my older computer, which only has PCIe slots), so I figured I'd try the PCI card.

[P229R-DAK]

Could your cell phone be too close to the computer / speaker amp? I have an Android that induces some loud annoying pops through my (cheap) powered computer monitor speakers at work.

I've also heard some noise in my headphones generated from my wireless phone system at home.

Other than that, I got nothing.

[rncwalker]

Originally Posted by eq1

-I enabled the onboard audio yesterday
I'll try disabling the onboard audio and see if that changes anything...

Another guess was bad capacitors: I recall the EMU product, either the dock, the card, or both, can need capacitors replaced. Before now I've never used this PCI card before; rather, I've used a newer PCIe without issues. The new-used computer I got happened to have a PCI slot (go figure, it's newer than my older computer, which only has PCIe slots), so I figured I'd try the PCI card.

This is what I would do,
1) Disable your EMU Sound-card and enable the onboard audio.
Then do some audio sound test,
2) Disable the onboard audio and enable the EMU sound-card.
Then do some audio sound test


Doing this should help you find out what the problem is.

Some systems (Audio) do not work well with each other.

If it turns out to be "Bad Capacitors".

Bad capacitors are known to happen with some audio hardware, that can be fixed by replacing with new and better capacitors.

Robert

[eq1]

Originally Posted by P229R-DAK

Could your cell phone be too close to the computer / speaker amp? I have an Android that induces some loud annoying pops through my (cheap) powered computer monitor speakers at work...

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't think that's it, as I've kept my cell phone in the same spot for ages and never had a problem. But, I'll keep an eye on that...

[eq1]

Originally Posted by rncwalker

This is what I would do,
1) Disable your EMU Sound-card and enable the onboard audio. Then do some audio sound test,
2) Disable the onboard audio and enable the EMU sound-card. Then do some audio sound test

Something like this is about where I'm headed. I disabled onboard audio last night, tested, still got pops, so that guess of mine was shot down.

I was gonna try uninstalling and reinstalling the E-MU, either that or just try my PCIe card. Never had problems with the PCIe, in my other computer, never tried the PCI until installing in this one...

I have to read-up on the capacitor issue, I don't remember what the symptoms are.

I don't get POPs with my graphics card-based audio (through HDMI)...

If I disable E-MU and enable onboard audio, test, and don't get POPs, I guess that would suggest the problem is focused on the E-MU implementation only, right? Could be the card, probably not the dock as I've used it for ages without troubles, could be the installation itself and how it's integrating with Windows, or... I think that's worth a try.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[eq1]

Originally Posted by eq1

...I have to read-up on the capacitor issue, I don't remember what the symptoms are.

I just did a quick search and found a youtube video with a guy replacing the caps in an 1820 dock. This is what the description says in terms of 'symptoms':

"Has your E-MU audio dock started to make strange pops or static noises randomly through your monitors? Then progresses on to just flat out quit altogether? PC won't even recognize the audio dock anymore thus leaving you with no sound at all? Here is what is most likely causing that and how to fix it yourself for what amounts to only a few dollars in replacement parts."

Here's a link to that video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHLxeMsPHcs


I'm skeptical about whether this is my problem, as 1) this and other material seems to focus on the dock and not the card itself, and 2) I am getting strange pops but none of the rest... But, there was one thing in the vid that suggested an easy check you can do.

When dude opens the dock and accesses the board, he immediately points out a couple capacitors that are bulging. The tops of the caps are dome-shaped whereas the good ones are flat. So, one could easily inspect their card or dock PCB for bulging capacitors...

I 'looked' at my PCI card before installing and didn't notice anything untoward, yet I probably wouldn't have noticed the slight bulging depicted in that video...


edit: Welp, that doesn't look like it. Pulled the card and the caps look fine.

[eq1]

I did a variety of disabling and enabling of audio, the only time I heard a pop was when I was using the E-MU.

Once, right when I turned the dock on, I noticed that my graphics card tweaked-out/disabled momentarily. I thought that might suggest some kind of conflict (who knows).

So, I decided to uninstall the E-MU drivers and mixer application, and re-install. I used it for another 25 minutes or so and didn't hear any pops during that time. Unfortunately, in maybe an hour of usage before the uninstall/reinstall, I hadn't heard any pops, either; I heard like one pop yesterday in all my usage. So still too early to tell whether the uninstall/reinstall fixed anything. I'll report back if/when I have a conclusion.

[rncwalker]

Originally Posted by eq1

Once, right when I turned the dock on, I noticed that my graphics card tweaked-out/disabled momentarily. I thought that might suggest some kind of conflict (who knows).

I had the EMU 404.

I found out that the EMU did not play well with some 'ASUS Chipsets'.


Robert

[eq1]

OK, POP problem definitely not solved.

A couple new observations:

-these POPs are weird. They move randomly within the stereo field, single POP! toward the right, then single POP! toward the left, and then in between...
-they don't show up on the patchmix mixer level meter, nor REAPER level meter.
-I'm not seeing any unusual values/errors in the Reaper performance meter...

Not sure how the signal path works, but it seems like, if the POP doesn't show-up in the software mixer level meter, then it has to be happening after the mixer level meter, though I don't know where exactly that would be. Maybe in the hardware, like AD converter in the PCI card?? I know it's not the dock...

[later...] I decided to just try my PCIe, pull PCI out, installed PCIe. A couple restarts and it's up and running. Haven't heard a POP yet, 10 minutes in... I'll let you know how it goes, but I'm pretty sure something's wrong with the PCI card, and this PCIe will work fine...

[Allybye]

If your problem has gone (time will tell) with that card change then it obviously points towards that PCI card as a likely problem area.

Capacitors can cause that issue when they break down intermittently and that may or may not show up as a bulge. That bulge normally only happens on electrolytics, some show a weeping, others no visible symptoms.

Only real way is to test them fully out of circuit both for cap value and insulation at the rated voltage (you cannnot do the latter in circuit). That latter breakdown can be the cause of a sudden current or voltage change that will be heard as a loud pop.

If the caps can be removed replaced on the board easily it is often just as well to replace all ekectrolytics, initially, followed by the rest as they are less likely to be a problem of this nature.

Remember electrolytics arenkt only used on power rails/decoupling but also as signal coupling capacitors and I would be tempted to start with those! If you have the right equipment such as a transient recorded or storage scope/attachment then the power rails can be monitored for transients but few are likely to have good enough test gear to do that.

Good luck.

[eq1]

Hey Allybye, thanks for the input...

Originally Posted by Allybye

Capacitors can cause that issue when they break down intermittently and that may or may not show up as a bulge.

Yeah, I was thinking that might be the case. I don't have any special equipment, but if I feel motivated or annoyed enough (having a seemingly almost usable audio card and PCI slot going to waste), I might pull the caps and test them, replace them... I kind of doubt I will though, as I've been spending more time with equipment/computers than music for the last several months...

I still have to replace the pieces I pulled off that tankless water heater PCB, when I was testing it for noise-inducing problems. It's still sitting on my desk, right there...

[Allybye]

I can understand that too....
...think I still have to finalise a circuit diagram.......for you!!

[eq1]

ha, well, if I'm not even able to drag myself to my soldering iron, to fix the PCB, I don't see that you're on the hook for a diagram.

[eq1]

With quite a few hours of PCIe usage and not hearing a single POP, I think it's safe to say the problem was something on the PCI card itself...

The PCI card has 6 electrolytic capacitors, 5 the same size, 1 a bit smaller. They're all labeled "JAMICON." They're all 16V. The 5 are 47 micro Farads, part# 912MO[M] 85 degrees, the small one's 10 micro Farads, 846MO[M] 85 degrees.

If I buy replacements, anyone have suggestions as to a good/better brand, or maybe there's some 'upgrade' I could do? I recall maybe "Nichion"(?) is a good brand. I don't know, pretty clueless on this stuff.

Here's a link to an image of the card: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AskciUu3eSuSgSlv...sohEe?e=sEoXSR


Did a quick search for jamicon caps, maybe 1 neutral 2 not-so-good and 1 "sucks" comment out of a dozen or so I read. Here's one:

"Re: Is Jamicon a good brand?

hell no. jamicon sucks. between teapo and ost in my opinion. DO NOT RECAP WITH JAMICON! thats why god made rubycon, panasonic, sanyo, nichicon (2006 and later), chimicon, and samxon."

[P229R-DAK]

You really can't go wrong with any of the brands listed in the comment above. They're all good.
Newark Electronics and Mouser Electronics both sell the capacitors you're looking for:

https://www.newark.com/w/c/passive-c...eight=7mm|11mm

and,

https://www.mouser.com/Passive-Compo...z0zl7sZ1y8f3gn

Not difficult if you're handy with a soldering iron. Just be mindful of the polarity of each capacitor.

[eq1]

Thanks for the tips. I probably will re-cap that board, at some point, maybe sooner rather than later.