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Old 01-07-2010, 03:52 PM   #81
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OT
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I (today, 2 hours ago as of writing) added an option in Reverberate (full version) to compensate for this effect
Just got the email about this update

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Old 01-07-2010, 05:14 PM   #82
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ps. If dub3000 would like to elaborate on 'buggy as hell' I'll happily look into any fixes that may be needed. Reverberate or Reverberate LE are natively coded, no SE involved at all.
i'm really sorry - i had an entirely different convolution plugin in mind ("reflections LE"). my sincere apologies, i've deleted my original post. i haven't used reverberate LE.

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Old 01-07-2010, 05:45 PM   #83
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Had that problem before where my rendered file sounded brighter than the mix. Eventually found out that when I played my mix through Reaper, the sound was produced by my Firestudio. However, when I played the rendered file in Windows Media for exemple, the sound was produced by my Live Value soundcard. Set everyting so that all sound used my Firestudio interface.
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:53 PM   #84
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i'm really sorry - i had an entirely different convolution plugin in mind ("reflections LE"). my sincere apologies, i've deleted my original post. i haven't used reverberate LE.
No problem, glad to hear there are no issues
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:48 AM   #85
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Default Extra sends makes Sound Sparkle, until Rendered

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Hello,

I've been using reaper for over a year now and have only recently been delving seriously into getting full songs recorded )instead of just keeping track of new song ideas) since I finally have the plugins to make life easier for me to record (Amplitube, EZDrummer, Melodyne, to name a few).

Now, my problem that I seem to be running into is that I'll get my song all mixed in Reaper and the whole thing sounds balanced and great and then I'll render a wav file of the project and play it in Media Player or iTunes or even my car and they all sound like complete crap. There's always too much reverb, the vocals are way low in the mix, and the mix as a whole sounds like someone put a blanket over the speaker, when it was crystal clear before. Any thoughts on what I'm experiencing here? Thanks!
I had the exact same issue as you - sounded great played from Reaper, but FROM THE EXACT SAME COMPUTER when played on any media player - winamp, kmplayer, windows media player, vlc player, etc, etc....it sounded lifeless.

In my case, I had some extra sends and receives hidden on a couple of the tracks. And since each send/receive can send an extra signal source to the Master track - essentially I was doubling up my sound. However when rendered, these extra send/receives were not sent to the mixdown stream - thus a weaker audio signal.

You probably solved this - but for other users - click the IO button on each track in the mix - check for sends/receives that are doubling the sound. If the IO button is green - you have extra sends/receives on that track.

One other consideration is: Check the sample rate in 3 places: Project Settings, Preferences, and the Render dialog. Make them consistent so no resampling occurs. Also - my Emu1820m has a sample rate display and setting dialog - couldn't hurt to be aware of this as well.

Lastly - wherever you have double sound sources, whether it's tracks or extra sends/receives, or vst's - that play in Reaper but don't get included in the ultimate mixdown signal - you will have an acoustic delta - the rendered version will sound less than the version you hear in Reaper.

oh...one more important thing! Some cards have extra monitoring facilities that send extra sound signals to the speakers/monitors - this won't make mixdown so your rendered file will sound flatter without the monitor signals you hear when played in Reaper.

Good luck!

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Old 03-28-2012, 07:28 PM   #86
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This thread is a bit old, but I was having the same problem (file sounded hissy, muddier, and lower in decibels after rendering), so I thought I'd also add my experiences to the knowledge database.

Mixes in Reaper would sound different after rendering using the same audio routing - from a laptop (running audio just out of the headphone jack) and low-end Tannoy near-field monitor setup and when playing back in another program (any of them, iTunes, Foobar, Windows Media Player). But I put the same .wav file in my iPhone and it sounded ok listening through headphones or my car speakers.

So I tried hooking up my cheap Behringer U-Control UCA202 audio interface (which I should be using anyway instead of the headphone jack, except I get some weird low volume beeping interference) and playing back in Foobar on the same laptop through the headphone out, and the .wav file was as it sounded in Reaper, for the most part.

Lesson #1 - need a better audio interface or computer with a better internal audio card. Lesson #2 - the computer is processing audio differently internally depending on what program is used and if I'm using the interface. In Reaper, it's using ASIO. Foobar without the interface is using something else, and with the interface, I'm not sure what it's doing, but it's different than without. And when in Reaper, it doesn't matter if I'm using the interface or going out through the headphone jack.

At least that's where I'm at, for now.
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:52 AM   #87
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This thread is a bit old, but I was having a similar problem and I searched but I couldn't see the answer here.


I simply unchecked the box "Allow large files to use Wav 64" in the render options and suddenly the sound on the new rendered track in question was much the same as in the project.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:41 AM   #88
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I simply unchecked the box "Allow large files to use Wav 64" in the render options and suddenly the sound on the new rendered track in question was much the same as in the project.
Humm, I couldn't find anything in the manual about that, do you have any idea what it pertains too? Also I wonder what is considered a large file?
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Old 04-14-2012, 04:44 AM   #89
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(I assume you can see it to the right of Wav Bit Depth.) I'm not sure about how it applies in terms of the science of it; but it seems to show a marked difference on a specific track or tracks by processing a higher quality version of it.

When the box was checked my lead synth stem sounded like a 56k mp3 within the final render. Unchecked it maintained it's characteristic sound and body. The difference on other tracks wasn't noticable (to me) either way though.
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:06 AM   #90
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Also I wonder what is considered a large file?
Files larger than 4GB I think.
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:00 AM   #91
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Hmm, I tried the Wave64 thing (along with EVERYTHING mentioned in this thread over the years) and a render STILL sounds like it has a blanket over it, exporting in Real Time seems to be the only way around this....
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:06 AM   #92
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What plugins are you typically using when you notice this, and do you have the "inform plugins of offline rendering state" preference enabled?
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:02 AM   #93
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It sounds like this even if there are NO plugins on any tracks or the master...it just sounds like there is a blanket over the sound unless I render in Real Time.

Same Tracks in Studio1 or KAE, effects or not, same bitrate & sample rate or not, .wav or mp3 or flac or ape, the sound is just like the mix in the DAW when rendered.....

No big deal, just another quirk in a piece of DAW software, ya just work around it & get on with making music!
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:22 AM   #94
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No big deal, just another quirk in a piece of DAW software, ya just work around it & get on with making music!
Nooooo IF it's happening when rendering with no processing, it's a colossal bug and needs fixing. I have never noticed it though - do you have any comparison clips?
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:48 PM   #95
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Nooooo IF it's happening when rendering with no processing, it's a colossal bug and needs fixing. I have never noticed it though - do you have any comparison clips?
I agree. I've also not noticed any problems but if there's even the remotest possibility or certain situation it would be good to know or be aware of it.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:59 PM   #96
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Like many others, after spending much time tweaking my effects and settings to perfection until I'm really happy about the total sound of my project, I find that the stereo mixdown sounds like a poor imitation of the project playback ; lacking punch, brightness & dimension. I always use the ASIO4ALL driver, so I tried switching to anything else, and got a sound very close to the file I previously rendered. So would not the goal here be to render from the ASIO4ALL output ? Is this possible ? Any suggestions would be appreciated !

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Old 03-01-2013, 03:27 PM   #97
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I have checked for this issue many times, ever since I first saw the thread, and have never had a problem with the renders being different than the playback. Are you all rendering to the same sample-rate and bit depth? Are you rendering from projects that have audio items of varying sample-rates or bit depths? I don't doubt that this is happening to some people, but if it were a Reaper bug, we ALL would be experiencing it (and we are not). So I bet that this is some kind of user error on a large scale......
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:39 PM   #98
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Yup, same sample rate, but not sure about bit depth. Would that be listed at : Project settings > Advanced > Track mixing bit depth ? It's set at 64 (default). Although, I'm recording my tracks in .ogg format VBR Quality :.7 which doesn't allow a bit rate to be specified.

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Old 03-01-2013, 07:14 PM   #99
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Yup, same sample rate, but not sure about bit depth. Would that be listed at : Project settings > Advanced > Track mixing bit depth ? It's set at 64 (default). Although, I'm recording my tracks in .ogg format VBR Quality :.7 which doesn't allow a bit rate to be specified.
I was more curious about the sample rate and bit depth of the render. And why are you using 64bit in the project settings? 32bit FP is as high as anyone needs to go, in my opinion, and even that is not even recognized by 99% of the convertors in use.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:30 PM   #100
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I was more curious about the sample rate and bit depth of the render. And why are you using 64bit in the project settings? 32bit FP is as high as anyone needs to go, in my opinion, and even that is not even recognized by 99% of the convertors in use.
The OP is speaking of the internal mixing engine bit depth which is 64bit by default, not the WAV bit depth.

What if a questionable render is made then a realtime, do they null and if not what remains might give a clue.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:42 PM   #101
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The OP is speaking of the internal mixing engine bit depth which is 64bit by default, not the WAV bit depth.
Duh.......... I knew that......
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:51 PM   #102
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Sorry OP, I didn't read every post in this thread. I just wanted to jump in with my two cents.

If you study the monitors you DO have, by listening to other recordings through them, then you will have an idea of how to mix on those speakers, in order to get the mix to translate well, in other listening environments.

Listen to you favorite recordings, and note how the bass is, how the highs sound, etc....then you'll know what you have to shoot for, in order to get a better mix.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:04 PM   #103
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Sorry OP, I didn't read every post in this thread. I just wanted to jump in with my two cents.

If you study the monitors you DO have, by listening to other recordings through them, then you will have an idea of how to mix on those speakers, in order to get the mix to translate well, in other listening environments.

Listen to you favorite recordings, and note how the bass is, how the highs sound, etc....then you'll know what you have to shoot for, in order to get a better mix.
His issue is that his mixes sound worse listening back on the same monitors that he mixed on, the renders are different than the play-back.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:04 PM   #104
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Hmmm... reading the first post again....

If you drag that render into a new project in reaper and play it there is it bad then? If not, its not the render, its the playback software/device/OS settings etc.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:10 PM   #105
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His issue is that his mixes sound worse listening back on the same monitors that he mixed on, the renders are different than the play-back.
I will go out on a limb here and suggest that some of these reports might simply be a matter of psycho accoustics. When I started out mixing I often thought that something was wrong with my playback/daw/speakers, etc. I now know that it was my mind playing all sorts of tricks on me because of inexperience/varying visual stimuli, etc. I'm still easily distracted by visual cues while mixing and frequently turn my monitor off to un-bias myself if I feel that something is hard to get right. I'm not saying that it's not possible that something else is wrong, but it's important to remember this aspect as well. Also, untreated rooms can have WIDELY varying responses at close points in space - lean forward 10cm's and the high mids disappear - and so on...
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:53 PM   #106
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Thanx for these suggestions - It seems that playing my mixes thru the ASIO4ALL driver either add depth & dimension to my projects OR playing thru other drivers reduce them noticeably. If there was a way to tap in to the output of the driver w/o using outboard equipment I could prove this.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:19 PM   #107
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Oh, and I've been checking other forums & it seems to be a common problem w/ many DAWs (mixdowns sounding inferior to playback).
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:25 PM   #108
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The driver should not have an effect on the sound quality. If you are noticing some difference between drivers, I would have to think that something else is causing the difference.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:28 PM   #109
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Thanx for these suggestions - It seems that playing my mixes thru the ASIO4ALL driver either add depth & dimension to my projects OR playing thru other drivers reduce them noticeably. If there was a way to tap in to the output of the driver w/o using outboard equipment I could prove this.
This makes no sense, other than whatever soundcard you use works better with one or the other driver. Are you using the same soundcard during playback of the inferior render that you use when playing the mix in Reaper?
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:22 AM   #110
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I haven't read through this thread, but I saw that Asio4all is being used, indicating a generic sound card. Soundcards typically have some spatial and other effects in their included software. If any of that stuff is on, that could be the cause of the sound difference.
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:02 AM   #111
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I haven't read through this thread, but I saw that Asio4all is being used, indicating a generic sound card. Soundcards typically have some spatial and other effects in their included software. If any of that stuff is on, that could be the cause of the sound difference.
I thought of that too, but even if he is using a generic soundcard that has these effects on the software, he is still using the same soundcard for the Reaper mix/playback and listening to the render, which are sounding different from one another. I bet that it has to do with some kind of fx/tone shaping on the media player, or he is rendering to a different format and it is not converting well. I thought about this and think that since he is not ever sending it out of the computer and back in, like through some hardware, this is all being done in the computer, it never even hits a AD/DA convertor or anything like that. I am still curious if the OP has tried importing the render back into Reaper and listening that way, to see if maybe it is the media player causing this.
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:44 AM   #112
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I am still curious if the OP has tried importing the render back into Reaper and listening that way, to see if maybe it is the media player causing this.
Mee too.
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:34 AM   #113
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Gentlemen, Thanks for your input. Yes, I imported the rendered file back into Reaper & it sounded great. I also imported the file into T-Racks3 Standalone w/ no processing - also sounded great. What do they both have in common ? Both are using the ASIO4ALL driver. (I know this is starting to sound like a commercial!) I tried to find a media player that would be asio compatible, but no luck yet. (the windows media player asio fix doesn't work for me)

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Old 03-02-2013, 10:36 AM   #114
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Gentlemen, Thanks for your input. Yes, I imported the rendered file back into Reaper & it sounded great. I also imported the file into T-Racks Standalone w/ no
processing - also sounded great. What do they both have in common ? Both are using the ASIO4ALL driver. (I know this is starting to sound like a commercial!)
I tried to find a media player that would be asio compatible, but no luck yet.
I guess I just don't understand how you have things hooked up.

What are you using, specifically, and how is it hooked up. Describe everything.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:23 AM   #115
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If you imported the render into Reaper and it sounds fine, then the issue isn't Reaper and the renders, it is a setting in your media player. Whether or not a media player uses an asio driver or not makes zero difference in the final sound, it's a driver. Try downloading VLC Player and play the file on it. Also, look into your windows audio settings, many onboard soundcards have additional software attached to it besides the simple driver, and usually this software has tone presets, room and environment simulations, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if this stuff is even on by default, but I wouldn't know...it has been over 3 years since my main rig had any onboard soundcard. I didn't just disable the onboard sound, I completely uninstalled the drivers and disabled it at the bios level.I can almost guarantee that your problem is in either the Windows audio settings or your chosen media player.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:58 PM   #116
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I guess I just don't understand how you have things hooked up.

What are you using, specifically, and how is it hooked up. Describe everything.
My Reaper stereo output > ASIO4ALL > stock onboard Realtek HD Audio "device" running at 24 bit 44,100 hz, no enhancements enabled. I listen w/ headphones plugged into the computer 1/8" stereo phone jack output.

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Old 03-02-2013, 03:03 PM   #117
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....no enhancements enabled....
The check settings on your media player. Like I said (and I believe a few other people have said this also), if the same render sounds fine when you import it back into Reaper and listen that way, but it still sounds weird when played on a different player on the same computer, then it definitely has to do with your media player. If it was a rendering issue, then it would not sound ok when listened to in Reaper. And I know that you are convinced that it is driver related, but the driver will not affect audio quality unless we are talking about latency issues or quality of performance of the actual hardware. Have you tried listening to these renders on completely different systems, by chance? Like on an mp3 player, stereo/car stereo, different computer?
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:51 PM   #118
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My Reaper stereo output > ASIO4ALL > stock onboard Realtek HD Audio "device" running at 24 bit 44,100 hz, no enhancements enabled. I listen w/ headphones plugged into the computer 1/8" stereo phone jack output.
I believe you really need a proper audio interface.

Onboard soundcards are not really made to handle serious audio processing.
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:00 PM   #119
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I believe you really need a proper audio interface.

Onboard soundcards are not really made to handle serious audio processing.
Unless he is bringing in audio through the sound card, it shouldn't matter much at all.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:37 AM   #120
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I believe you really need a proper audio interface.

Onboard soundcards are not really made to handle serious audio processing.
I do have a Line6 Toneport interface (the older red & black one). Do U think that's sufficient ?
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