Old 12-17-2014, 02:50 PM   #1
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Default What Happens When I Arm an Envelope

I know that arming a track allows me to record on that particular track.

So should logic be telling me that arming an envelope will allow me to record on that particular envelope?

If it's not too much to ask, I'd prefer a layman's term type of answer, fitting for a newb.

Also, I would greatly appreciate if anyone could point to which particular section of the manual explains how arming envelopes work, and what it does.

Thanks
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Old 12-17-2014, 03:34 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Hoof Hearted View Post
I know that arming a track allows me to record on that particular track.

So should logic be telling me that arming an envelope will allow me to record on that particular envelope?

If it's not too much to ask, I'd prefer a layman's term type of answer, fitting for a newb.

Also, I would greatly appreciate if anyone could point to which particular section of the manual explains how arming envelopes work, and what it does.

Thanks
I've never thought about that before. Sounds like a really good idea to be able to automate the arm button. Or do I misunderstand your question?
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Old 12-17-2014, 03:50 PM   #3
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I've never thought about that before. Sounds like a really good idea to be able to automate the arm button. Or do I misunderstand your question?
I think you have me right. I really just thought it would be a no brainer and easy to do.

My hope was that you could just set your filter to what ever parameters you like- then when you're ready for it to affect the track, you could either set up a marker, which would automatically switch the FX on, OR, you could have a "volume" envelope for the filter which allows you to gradually bring the entire effect in and back out.

Does that make any sense?
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Old 12-17-2014, 03:55 PM   #4
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That's not what he means no, I think just confused how to use it.

First, make sure the automation mode is set to touch, latch, or write. They are destructive to existing automation in that order. Touch overwrites while you move a parameter only, write overwrites all the time, and latch overwrites all the time but only after the parameter is moved first.

You can set the automation mode per-track here:


And you can set global automation here:


Global automation is my preferred method. It simply creates automation for any parameter you move while it's on. Set it to touch, and adjust things, and you will see.
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Old 12-17-2014, 07:30 PM   #5
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That's not what he means no, I think just confused how to use it.

First, make sure the automation mode is set to touch, latch, or write. They are destructive to existing automation in that order. Touch overwrites while you move a parameter only, write overwrites all the time, and latch overwrites all the time but only after the parameter is moved first.

You can set the automation mode per-track here:


And you can set global automation here:


Global automation is my preferred method. It simply creates automation for any parameter you move while it's on. Set it to touch, and adjust things, and you will see.
Thanks i will look into it and mess around with it.

Could someone still answer the question in the thread title?

What happens when I arm an envelope? What is the purpose of arming?

Will my track simply not be effected by the filter if I don't have the envelope armed?

Some other questions if anyone felt inclined are, Why do i need to arm an envelope?

When should I or shouldn't I arm?

I'm sorry if I'm being thick. I am just looking for some basic info...
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Old 12-17-2014, 07:53 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Fergler View Post

You can set the automation mode per-track here:


And you can set global automation here:

Ferbergler buddy, I'm not seeing anything on my screen that looks like those images.

I admit I am using an olderversion like 3.76 or something. Maybe the graphics have changed...
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Old 12-17-2014, 08:54 PM   #7
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When you arm an envelope, REAPER creates an automation track for the FX parameter concerned, ready to write to.
I guess the alternative would be to have automation tracks for all FX parameters at all times, which would be an absolute nightmare.
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Old 12-17-2014, 09:47 PM   #8
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...I'm not seeing anything on my screen that looks like those images.
I believe the first image is at the lower left side of the TCP, or Track control Panel (shown with a yellow fader because it in "touch" mode)

and the lower image is (like much of the Transport bar, rather hard to see in my Reaper) on the Transport Bar/ Panel/whatever - you should see Global Auto all the time, but "Touch" is showing only because that has been selected. You can see the Record button at left of the image, and the play-position numbers at right of image

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Old 12-17-2014, 10:51 PM   #9
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When you arm an envelope, REAPER creates an automation track for the FX parameter concerned, ready to write to.
I guess the alternative would be to have automation tracks for all FX parameters at all times, which would be an absolute nightmare.

I'm just so darned confused by the arm envelope option...

For instance, after adding FX to the track, I click on the (env)button to bring up the envelope menu. I'm expecting to see whatever filter I am using to be armed, as the filter itself is obviously affecting the track's sound. But it's not armed.

Fair enough, I can accept that. So I look inside the track envelopes menu and put an eyeball on the FX I am using. JS: Delay/delay chorus

I expect there only to be one box to check, because after all- I've already taken the time to set up each parameter within, but lo, my eyes behold a box for each and every parameter within the Plugin itself!

Now Am I expected to bring up automation envelopes for each and every parameter?(Delay w/chorus may be a filter for all I know- part of my frustration comes from not knowing what terms to use to describe items, but I will save that for another thread)

Well I say to hell with it- I'm not going to bring up envelopes for every component and its parameter within because I don't even know what half of them do. On to top it, there's only one lever that really seems to give me the effect I'm after.

You know which parameter I'm talking about don't you? Yep, you guessed it- I'm talking about the output wet w/chorus (db)parameter. It puts that good old Waylon Jennings sound on the track.

So, I checked it's little box, and the box next to it which says visible automatically gets a check as well, which brings up the envelope.

But that strange little arm box...it's still just sitting there unchecked.

I ignore it for the time being, and I press my ctrl key while hovering my mouse over the output wet w/chorus (db)envelope. I draw my desired automation sequence.

I press play, and the automation does exactly as I wish, seemingly without any flaw. Wherever I had drawn the automation to high levels, the sound became saturated by the effect, and where ever I brought the levels down, the effect went away. It was a beautiful thing.

I am happy with the result, but there is still a problem... there's still that gaddomn little arm box again, beckoning me to check it; daring me to leave it unchecked. I don't know why, but it's taunting me, shaking it's head at me, laughing hysterically at me because it knows what a dumb and ignorant ass I am. It knows, I have no facking clue what in hell's purpose it's doing there- just like that non-explaining ass hole of a blank box to the right of it labeled UI...WHAT IN HELL DOES "UI" even mean???? roflmfao!!! Didin't see it mentioned in the manual, and try googling that sh!t! Oh, wait, I think I know what it means- "Unknowing and Ignorant". My middle initials

So any how, back to that pretentious soapy grinned little arm box...by this time I'm fed up with it- and there's no more denying it's just time that we lock horns. I'd already seen it prancing its little ass around in the manual, shouting 'Look at me, look at me- I'm important!', but never really saying what the hell it even does. So, I decided to make the next move and I put a check right smack in the middle of it's parameters.

Funny, I didn't notice anything different after checking the box. I didn't feel some huge weight lifted off of me. I didn't really see, feel, or hear anything.

So, after a moment of quiet review, I decide to hit the play button again, expecting to finally understand just what the big deal was with that little mother lovin arm box. I was actually praying, ready to accept the divine knowledge seemingly bestowed upon the rest of you, and wouldn't you know it- lol. snort... every thing still works fine, and nothing seems to have changed. lol. gosh. I just find myself sitting here and wondering if the only reason that little bastard was created was to kick me in the nuts and laugh at me. lol!
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Old 12-17-2014, 11:36 PM   #10
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umm.. I am baffled by automation in Reaper too... I mostly ignore it and it goes away : ) except for volume, which i can cope with.

But I suspect that Arming the envelope means, if you Arm then press Play and then move envelope faders, or if it's an FX envelope, adjust its parameters such as EQ bands or wet/dry etc...that those changes then get RECORDED over the timeline of the envelope. ie the changes throughout the song's length. Whereas if its not armed, the the last adjustment you made, is what you hear throughout the track?

UI means User Interface, I think. And for some odd reason, clicking it seems to open, in every case, a generic sort-of no-frills Reaper interface for that FX. Sometimes making things clearer, as you see all the parameters.

Or, I may be completely wrong on all counts.
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Old 12-17-2014, 11:52 PM   #11
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Jacos is not completely wrong on all counts.

What this comes down to, I think, is a person's preferred way of creating automation sequences. Hoof Hearted's way is probably better than mine.... but try this anyway, HH, as an experiment, and to satisfy your curiousity....

# On any audio track, in any project, arm the volume envelope, and set the Automation mode to 'Touch'.
# Play the track. As the track plays, mess with the volume fader. Go to extremes. Mess with the panning, too, while you're about it, for good measure.
# Press stop when you're bored. Before you do anything else, change the Automation mode back to Trim/Read.
# Press play again. Listen to the volume changing..... because you recorded those changes.... because that volume parameter was armed. Listen to the panning not changing.... because that pan parameter was not armed.
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UI means User Interface, I think. And for some odd reason, clicking it seems to open, in every case, a generic sort-of no-frills Reaper interface for that FX.
UI does indeed stand for User Interface. REAPER's generic plugin UI can be useful if you don't like dials on a plugin's UI, if you don't like the UI, if you want to automate parameters whose values you couldn't otherwise read, and especially, if the UI mysteriously vanishes from your computer or crashes in REAPER, as happens from time to time if you abuse REAPER like I do.

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Old 12-18-2014, 12:00 AM   #12
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Well I say to hell with it- I'm not going to bring up envelopes for every component and its parameter within because I don't even know what half of them do. On to top it, there's only one lever that really seems to give me the effect I'm after.
Quite right. Like drummers, most parameters can and should be completely ignored most of the time.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:40 AM   #13
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Now Am I expected to bring up automation envelopes for each and every parameter?
No, it shows you what envelopes are available. You choose the one you want. Kind of like opening the silverware drawer. You only need a fork but there's knives, spoons, etc.

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But that strange little arm box...it's still just sitting there unchecked.
If you change Trim/Read to Read and have the envelope armed, you can watch the fader or knob move.
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Old 12-18-2014, 10:00 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Fex View Post
Quite right. Like drummers, most parameters can and should be completely ignored most of the time.
Problem is it's the other way around and he most definitely ignores me most of the time. JK, sort of..




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Originally Posted by Jeffsounds View Post
If you change Trim/Read to Read and have the envelope armed, you can watch the fader or knob move.
Ohhhh ok... so, all this time, had I just switched trim/read to read and checked the arm box, I could have got to watch faders and knobs move...

That's brilliant!



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No, it shows you what envelopes are available. You choose the one you want. Kind of like opening the silverware drawer. You only need a fork but there's knives, spoons, etc.
I do appreciate the option to only take what you need, but it seems to come with a bag of luggage when I want to move all of the customized filters simultaneously.

For example:

Most of us have probably used ReaEQ. The console gives us four round dots, numbered 1,2,3, and 4, which allow us to manipulate the frequency filters; the higher the number, the higher the correspondence to the frequency, at least that is the correlation at the starting point, correct?

So on my track I am only using ReaEQ. And I only want it for about 10 seconds on the entire track. I want to slightly remove the lower frequencies, as well as the mid range, while giving a slight boost to the high end stuff. Still with me? If you are then you would know I have moved all four(1,2,3 and 4)of the round dots which allow me to filter the sound. I've meticulously moved them exactly to the effect that I'm after.

So now I am ready to automate this overall effect into my track at precisely the place I want the effect to take place.

But for me to do that it seems I have to open up at least four (1,2,3 and 4) envelopes and draw the automation on each (low shelf, bands, high shelf) so that they all come up, then fade out at the same time, No?
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Old 12-18-2014, 10:13 AM   #15
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No, you don't have to if you have already set all the parameters in the ReaEQ as you like and you don't want to change their values separately while playing. You would only need to automate eg. bypass to make the effect to switch ON where you want it and back OFF where you don't need it.

IOW, if you just set the effect itself how you like it to be, you don't have to worry about all the possible automation envelopes, just automate the on/off which you want to happen at certain point.

IOW, you only automate what you want to change. You don't have to automate what will stay fixed.
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Old 12-18-2014, 10:58 AM   #16
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You would only need to automate eg. bypass to make the effect to switch ON where you want it and back OFF where you don't need it.

IOW, if you just set the effect itself how you like it to be, you don't have to worry about all the possible automation envelopes, just automate the on/off which you want to happen at certain point.
Think I may actually be getting what you are saying, that by creating a bypass envelope, that it will simply act as a switch, is that correct?

But when you use the word "switch", I imagine you mean that it will be fully integrated the moment I want the effect, and that it will also be fully removed the moment I no longer desire to have it- is that correct?

Does this mean I would still have to bring up the various envelopes if my intent is to fade rather than switch?

EDIT: oh wait, I'm guessing the "switch" so to speak, can act like a dimmer, and therefor fading is still fully possible...
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:27 AM   #17
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Bypass is a switch.
What you want is to automate the wet/dry balance to fade from 100% dry (no FX) to 100% wet (full FX).
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:31 AM   #18
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Think I may actually be getting what you are saying, that by creating a bypass envelope, that it will simply act as a switch, is that correct?
That is correct.

Quote:
But when you use the word "switch", I imagine you mean that it will be fully integrated the moment I want the effect, and that it will also be fully removed the moment I no longer desire to have it- is that correct?
Also correct, switching bypass on/off will do it instantly.

Quote:
Does this mean I would still have to bring up the various envelopes if my intent is to fade rather than switch?
Ok, if you want the effect to fade in/out rather than switch on/off instantly, you could automate the Wet parameter. You would start from zero and go up to amount you want, keep it there as long as you have to and then bring (slowly) back down again.

It depends on what effect plugin you want to automate how well this works or what parameter would be the best to automate.

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edit: Fex already there...
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:12 PM   #19
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Bypass is a switch.
What you want is to automate the wet/dry balance to fade from 100% dry (no FX) to 100% wet (full FX).
Ok. That makes sense, but I'm still confused by the use of "balance", as there isn't an option for that in the envelope menu.

In the envelope menu, Do I just need to check the box that says wet which will then create an envelope.

And then, Would I just start with the level down, right up until I'm ready for the FX, at which point I would just draw the animation, bringing the FX up as I wish, then draw the level back down when I want it to end?

If I did it that way, I wouldn't need to ever check the bypass box- Is that correct?
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:39 PM   #20
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Ok. That makes sense, but I'm still confused by the use of "balance", as there isn't an option for that in the envelope menu.

In the envelope menu, Do I just need to check the box that says wet which will then create an envelope.
Checking the box alone doesn't actually create an envelope. It activates the envelope track where you can either record in real time your envelope by activating the arm button and "playing" your envelope by twiddling faders/knobs/buttons etc., or you can draw in the envelope manually on screen.

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And then, Would I just start with the level down, right up until I'm ready for the FX, at which point I would just draw the animation, bringing the FX up as I wish, then draw the level back down when I want it to end?

If I did it that way, I wouldn't need to ever check the bypass box- Is that correct?
Yes. If you want a gradual fade in/out of the effect then you need to automate the wet amount. If you want an instant on/off then automate the bypass switch.

Or, as an alternative to automating the bypass... you could mult the section that you want to have different effects to another track and add the effects on that track alone. e.g. You want a different EQ on the first two measures of a guitar take. Duplicate the track. Cut the 1st two measures out of the original track. Cut everything after the first two measures from the new track. Add effects to new track.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:51 PM   #21
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Ok. That makes sense, but I'm still confused by the use of "balance", as there isn't an option for that in the envelope menu.
I just meant the balance between wet and dry.
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In the envelope menu, Do I just need to check the box that says wet which will then create an envelope.
It will activate the envelope track for ReaEQ.... some plug-ins will have their own wet/dry knobs as well as REAPER's generic one.... be careful not to get them confused.
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And then, Would I just start with the level down, right up until I'm ready for the FX, at which point I would just draw the animation, bringing the FX up as I wish, then draw the level back down when I want it to end?
Yes, you probably would.... whereas I would perhaps arm the envelope, and move the wet/dry knob! But your way is probably better.
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If I did it that way, I wouldn't need to ever check the bypass box- Is that correct?
That should work. Try it and find out!
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:56 PM   #22
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Or, as an alternative to automating the bypass... you could mult the section that you want to have different effects to another track and add the effects on that track alone. e.g. You want a different EQ on the first two measures of a guitar take. Duplicate the track. Cut the 1st two measures out of the original track. Cut everything after the first two measures from the new track. Add effects to new track.
Or you could split the item (still on one track), and apply the FX to just one item, as opposed to the track.
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:03 PM   #23
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Ferbergler buddy, I'm not seeing anything on my screen that looks like those images.

I admit I am using an olderversion like 3.76 or something. Maybe the graphics have changed...
Well this is 4.76, an entire whole version number ahead of you, so I don't deny it's probably not the same. Why such an old version?
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:15 PM   #24
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Or you could split the item (still on one track), and apply the FX to just one item, as opposed to the track.
Yeah, then you could crossfade them together for a transition rather than on/off.
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:17 PM   #25
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Yeah, then you could crossfade them together for a transition rather than on/off.
Oh yeah.... good thinking!
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:37 PM   #26
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Yes, you probably would.... whereas I would perhaps arm the envelope, and move the wet/dry knob! But your way is probably better.
IDK, ideally I would just have the analogue sliders and knobs in front of me and automate that way. But I've never tried automating using digital sliders and knobs. I think I would do ok with the sliders, but the thought of turning round knobs with a mouse cursor is maybe what has prevented me from trying it your way.

Drawing the automation can maybe be a more precise way to control the effect, but it is probably more time consuming. The difference in quality by doing it either way is probably negligible.

Your way is more like playing along with the music, where my way is more intuitive guessing, then replaying to test and see if my intuitions were correct.

Time is everything in music, and we can't ever produce quality fast enough. I think I will probably switch to doing it your way, just from a pure time deadline perspective. But for now drawing automation is a comfort zone thing, and I'll probably wait till I have more "time" before re-learning certain tasks.

I appreciate your help all- I will try it out and let you all know.

Hoof
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:44 PM   #27
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Well this is 4.76, an entire whole version number ahead of you, so I don't deny it's probably not the same. Why such an old version?
It's a comfort zone. I tend to have a "not broken so don't fix" mentality. I keep things pretty simple, and honestly I don't think I've had a problem yet using the older version. I'm afraid once I make an update, it will be such a visual and mental shock that it will hinder my ability to produce.

I'm guessing there are a lot of benefits to updating, and will probably hold off as long as I can, so maybe further down the road when I hit the lottery I can afford to pay someone to teach me the new Reaper
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:55 PM   #28
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Drawing the automation can maybe be a more precise way to control the effect, but it is probably more time consuming. The difference in quality by doing it either way is probably negligible.
I always end up tidying the automation anyway. I just find moving knobs and sliders to be a convenient way of getting the automation approximately correct in the first place.
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Old 12-18-2014, 03:00 PM   #29
Fex
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Originally Posted by Hoof Hearted View Post
I tend to have a "not broken so don't fix" mentality.
Good policy.... except where it applies to new stable REAPER releases. The change to v4 might be a shock, but you'll get used to it (and will probably soon prefer it). Updating usually causes no trouble whatsoever. It is best to keep REAPER up to date, IMO.
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